Posts with the tag 'Mormons'

Lawrence O’Donnell Rips Romney’s Faith

Rather strongly:

Romney felt politically forced to give the speech specifically because evangelical Christians seem to know a little too much about the faith of his fathers. Many evangelicals believe and have said publicly that Mormonism–contrary to Romney’s assertions–is not a Christian religion but an abomination of Christianity. Here’s a sampling of why: Mormons believe that the Garden of Eden was in Missouri; that Jews were the first people in America; that Indians descended from Jews and are a lost tribe of Israel; that Jesus came to America; that after the next coming of Christ (which will be the second or third, depending on how you count his trip to America), the world will be ruled for a thousand years from Jerusalem and Missouri; and to answer Mike Huckabee’s now famous question, yes, they believe “Jesus and Lucifer were brothers, in the sense of both being spiritually begotten by the Father.”

Mr. O’Donnell is not Mormon - he claims to be Catholic, and has this to say on the subject:

This week, I went on Hugh Hewitt’s radio show so Hugh could attack me for attacking his favorite candidate. It was a good conversation. Hugh began by asking if I am Catholic. I gave what sounded like a very Clintonian answer that depends on what you mean by the word Catholic. I explained that there are Catholics–very few–who, Romney style, adhere to everything their church says. Then there are American Catholics, most of whom believe the church is wrong about abortion and wrong about the death penalty and used to think the Pope was wrong about the war in Iraq being a mistake but have now switched back to the Pope’s side on that one. I don’t feel empowered to say Catholics like that are not Catholics. Once we got past that, Hugh asked if the Catholic Church is wrong to not allow women priests. I said, yes, the faith of my fathers is wrong about that. I then happily admitted to many failings and evils in the Catholic Church and in past Popes.

Very few who adhere to all of Church teaching? I don’t know how O’Donnell would know such a thing - but he would be correct if he stated that a lot of Catholics disagree with what they think is Church teaching. The universal about criticism (internal or external) of Catholic teaching is that the critics are uniformly ignorant of just what it is the Church teaches. Mr. O’Donnell, a nominal Catholic, clearly has not bothered to learn what his own faith teaches - and yet he presumes to tell us what the Mormon faith teaches, and how it is a bad bunch of teaching. I make no presumptions about Mormonism - I don’t know enough about it to render judgement. Given that I am perfectly at home in Catholicism, I’ve no great desire to find out about the particulars of the Mormon faith - whatever their particular beliefs are, what I can see in action is people who have strong families, a strong sense of community, obey the laws and generally don’t cause a fuss, except when those well dressed young men come ring my doorbell at an invariably inconvenient time to try and convert me (a forlorn hope - though one day I hope to have time to speak to them, as the Catholic Church is always looking for converts).

I’ll bet a lot of money that Mr. O’Donnell never bothered to ask an orthodox Catholic priest just why women can’t become Catholic priests. If he had, he’d either no longer disagree with it, or he’d definitively state that he’s no longer Catholic (one is free to disagree with Church teaching - but once one knows exactly why a certain thing is taught then it becomes clear that it is integral to the entirety of the faith, and you can’t pick and choose what parts to believe…at that point, it is either time to cease being prideful, or time to find another religion). I’ll also bet that Mr. O’Donnell never went to committed Mormon and asked why this or that belief is held (or, probably in a lot of cases, whether or not Mormons even believe some of the things non-Mormons say they believe). Until a person has learned about a faith from the strongest exponents of that faith, then condemning any aspect of that faith is foolhardy in the extreme - Mr. O’Donnell seems to have more of a problem with people of faith rather than a problem with Romney’s Mormon faith; he states that no Catholic politician would ever get up and state a complete acceptance of all Church teachings. Of course, there already are such out there - and if I do decide to run for office, I will be glad to assert that I accept 100% of Church teaching on matters of faith and morals; but for Mr. O’Donnell, his claim is helpful because it allows him to condemn Romney’s assertion of full faith in the Mormon creed as either a lie, or proof that he’s an idiot.

We should never get into the act of criticising another’s religion - the peace of our democratic republic requires a certain reticence about some matters. As a Catholic, I naturally believe that Romney’s faith has got it wrong (while I’m not too familiar with Mormonism, one thing I do know is that they don’t believe in the Trinity - that, in and of itself, is sufficient for my purposes to know that Mormonism, whatever else it may be, isn’t the religion for me) - to put it completely clearly, as a Catholic, I hold that all non-Catholics have it wrong at least to some degree. I fully understand that my non-Catholic brothers and sisters feel the same about my Catholicism; and its all ok. In the end, God will set everything to rights and it will all be made clear to us. Meanwhile, as long as a faith doesn’t make a public nusiance of itself, it should be just left alone in our political discourse. Mormons are good people - good Americans; leave them be on the matter of their faith.

20 comments December 15th, 2007

Opening Up the Creationism/Evolution Can of Worms

As Huckabee has surged in support - almost certainly from Evangelical Christians enlisting on his side - some people seem determined to add Creationism vs Evolution to the political debate:

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) - Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee, a Southern Baptist preacher who has surged in Iowa with evangelical Christian support, bristled Tuesday when asked if creationism should be taught in public schools.

Huckabee - who raised his hand at a debate last May when asked which candidates disbelieved the theory of evolution - asked this time why there is such a fascination with his beliefs.

“I believe God created the heavens and the Earth,” he said at a news conference with Iowa pastors who murmured, “Amen.”

“I wasn’t there when he did it, so how he did it, I don’t know,” Huckabee said.

But he expressed frustration that he is asked about it so often, arguing with the questioner that it ultimately doesn’t matter what his personal views are.

“That’s an irrelevant question to ask me - I’m happy to answer what I believe, but what I believe is not what’s going to be taught in 50 different states,” Huckabee said. “Education is a state function. The more state it is, and the less federal it is, the better off we are.”

The former Arkansas governor pointed out he has advocated for broad public school course lists that include the creative arts and math and science. Why, then, he asked, is evolution such a fascination?

Why? Because if there is a God which not only created but guided the development of the universe, then most liberal/left ideology wouldn’t be worth a pitcher of warm spit. On the left it is (barely) ok for there to be a God - but this God must be rather vague…a First Cause, perhaps, but not an entity which has a specific plan for His creation and a willingness to intervene from time to time to set things on the right course. Go beyond a First Cause sort of God and before you know it you might have someone getting ten hard and fast rules and, worse, an Incarnate Diety who tells people precisely what is right and what is wrong and how they are to live - you might get the anti-liberal silver bullet: absolute Truth.

Truth is pesky - it can’t be argued with, you see? Have truth and you just have to adhere to it, or admit to all and sundry that you prefer lies. Its the sort of thing which makes a lefty go bonkers…so, better to just not have truth, and demand that anything which proclaims truth be relegated to entirely outside the public square.

Be that as it may, whomever has decided that pestering Huckabee with Creationism questions is making a rather large mistake. Not for nothing did the Founders ban any religious test for office. In the Founders wisdom, it doesn’t matter if person worships a rock or thinks the Moon is made of green cheese - the personal religious beliefs of a person simply cannot be used to deny them public office. By making an issue of Creationism, a religious test is subtly being created - the concept being that anyone who believes in a Creator is not really fit to be in office. Its already being done with Romney and his Mormon faith, now its also being done with Huckabee and his Evangelical Christian faith - but the sword cuts two ways and the left won’t like it when Democrats are pressed to square their professed religion with policy prescriptions which directly violate specific rules of their faith.

It would be better, I think, if such matters are left out of Presidential politics - but, sadly, I think we’re way past the time when anything could be considered out of bounds.

58 comments December 5th, 2007


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