November 27th, 2007 at 10:27pm Matt Margolis
Does it really surprise anyone that Massachusetts would take the initiative in dismantling parental rights?
Entry Filed under: Legislation, Local Issues
Blogs For John McCain's Victory GOP Bloggers
Blogs For Victory is privately owned and maintained. All contributors are volunteers unaffiliated with any campaign or political party.
Material published and opinions expressed herein are solely the responsibility of the individual authors of this site.
© Copyright 2008 Blogs For Victory. All rights reserved.
Blixed WordPress Theme | Design by Sebastian Schmieg . Icons by Kevin Potts . Powered by WordPress . Site Admin
79 Comments Add your own
1. liberalT | November 27th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
ah right Matt, i forgot about the right to beat children that the constitution gives us. How stupid ..
2. KCJ | November 27th, 2007 at 11:24 pm
why am i not surprised that a liberal, who thinks that interrogating terrorists is torture also believes that disciplining children is abuse,.
Come on now, they’re not talking about beating kids..
3. bongoman | November 28th, 2007 at 12:08 am
Oh so physical assault is necessary to discipline your child?
What does it say about you as a person that you feel the need to use physcial violence against children?
Unbelievable.
4. pelirrojo | November 28th, 2007 at 12:08 am
KCJ, Then what exactly are they talking about?
Matt, what “rights” are being removed?
I often hear the argument “my rights as a parent are being removed from me”, but no one will actually define this “right”, so care to define this for me?
5. Kahn | November 28th, 2007 at 12:16 am
Light corporal punishment like spanking does help teach children. Properly applied, it has a lasting good effect rather than a lasting bad effect.
But, well is the law specific enough? How does Barney Frank feel about it? Just who can’t spank who?
6. pelirrojo | November 28th, 2007 at 12:49 am
kahn, another argument i often hear (actually those are the only 2 arguments, care to cite a study which says “spanking” produces better adjusted kids than those not spanked. (btw I am taking a real interest here, heres your chance to change the views of someone highly against the right to smack children)
7. Jeremiah | November 28th, 2007 at 1:14 am
If you don’t correct them, give them everything they want, then they’ll grow up the most disobedient children ever.
You didn’t call mommy and daddy names in the good ol days, or you would get a whoopin’ till you couldn’t sit down.
Today, children are allowed to call their parents and teachers the F-word and everything imaginable.
If I called my mommy or daddy that, why, Dad would have knocked the fire out o’ me.
We need the good ol days back!
Teach children how to R.E.S.P.E.C.T
Jeremiah
8. Kahn | November 28th, 2007 at 1:23 am
pelirrojo - ever read Starship Trooper? The book, not that awful movie?
9. pelirrojo | November 28th, 2007 at 1:28 am
kahn, actually no, but I’d like to hear your point anyway.
Jeremiah, back in the good old days it was also acceptable for a teacher to draw blood on a child, something they would be thrown in prison for today (hey times change, for the worse in your opinion i guess)
10. Jeremiah | November 28th, 2007 at 1:48 am
pelirrojo,
Dad used to cut a switch from a tree when I got whipped, you talk about stinging. LOL!!! Anyway,Let me just put it this way, I’ve had two inch wide bruise marks across my back before, and at the time, I knew I had done something wrong, but really didn’t understand the full reason. But I understand it now!!!!! Today, kids are allowed to hang out with anybody they choose down the block where they learn all kinds of foul language, and their attitudes are just amazingly hateful and rude.
The harmful influence is just enormous. The kids come home, and are a totally different personality, their parents ask them to do something they start throwing out obscenities left and right, screaming the f word over and over again. I’ve actually seen this happen.
Now, for those parents who want to avoid this behavior, they are accustomed to correcting them with the belt, if the people in Massachusetts want to raise their child by belting, and they make the decision to stop spanking, then those parents will have no way to control their children, and it will result in a rebellious generation of children.
The people better wake up in Mass.
Jeremiah
11. AAR | November 28th, 2007 at 1:50 am
More Liberal IDIOCY!!!
AAR
12. pelirrojo | November 28th, 2007 at 1:59 am
Jeremiah, Lets pretend for a moment you have a valid point. Now lets say little johnny goes to school one day, the school rings up home at around 1pm, and says “johnny was suspended today for bullying”.
Ok, now the parent goes to pick up johnny, now what do they say to him? do they tell him hitting someone was wrong? kind of a double standard. do they tell johnny that its acceptable to hit people?
13. Jeremiah | November 28th, 2007 at 2:06 am
pelirrojo,
I see what you’re hitting at already…This is the way it is…You can tell little Johnny that it’s wrong to bully and hit on other people, but that’s not enough, what little Johnny has to understand, is that there are consequences for his actions, and in whipping little Johnnny, he associates the whipping with his wrong doing.Which could very well save little Johnny’s life some day.
Jeremiah
14. pelirrojo | November 28th, 2007 at 2:13 am
Jeremiah, good point, you could tell him that. but what happens if little johnny decided this other person had done something wrong? perhaps the other kid took a cookie off him, and he decided this was worth a beating. so he grabbed a stick and whacked the kid across the back.
15. Jeremiah | November 28th, 2007 at 2:22 am
pelirrojo,
In that scenario, little Johnny still gets a whipping! Because the other person didn’t do anything to cause little Johnny bodily harm. It was just a cookie, for petes sake!
Now, if the other person hits Johnny then Johnny has a right to defend himself! And most parents realize this.
Let the parents discipline their children!!
Jeremiah
16. pelirrojo | November 28th, 2007 at 2:36 am
you have a slight double standard here. If the child stole something from the parents, then the parents have the right to “whip” (please i hope you dont mean that literally) little johnny. so little johnny goes to school thinking this is how it works.
Now you bring up a 2nd point. I would be happy to see such acts legal, under 1 condition, it isnt assault for the child to defend themselves. If the parents hits the child, the child should be allowed to hit the parent.
I mean theres an assault law, but then they make an exception so that children can be hit (the most helpless of people), but then they also continue to make it illegal for the child to defend themselves by grabbing a belt (stick, belt, whatever) and hit the parent.
17. Jeremiah | November 28th, 2007 at 2:53 am
If the parents hits the child, the child should be allowed to hit the parent.
A parent has the DUTY and the RIGHT to correct their children, because the parents are a bit older and a bit wiser than their children. Daddy and Mommy know what’s BEST!
I don’t why that’s so hard for you to understand.
I child should never strike their mother or father.
if a child strikes a parent that is one of the most detestable of sins.
I hope you wouldn’t strike back at your parents for them correcting you.
I would never strike my mother, if I did, I probably couldn’t live with myself.
Jeremiah
18. pelirrojo | November 28th, 2007 at 3:02 am
Jeremiah, I wont advocate violence against anyone, but yes, if a parent hits a child, I would prefer the child hit back, its a little term known as self defense.
But your excuse is “because the parents are a bit older and a bit wiser than their children.”, what if a teacher decided the child had done something wrong, took them out the back, and caned them, would you also say the same?
what if a random stranger, of say 50, saw the child doing something wrong, and belted them, would you say the same?
you also say they have a duty and a “right” to punish their children as they see fit. Who gave them the right to hit their child? don’t say god, that isnt a legal argument (nor do I see jesus arguing it, and if you wish to say its in the old law, then you must accept stoning children as well)
19. Dittohead4Life | November 28th, 2007 at 5:19 am
Geez, I hope libtardT and Bongman aren’t from MA; I hear that they’re into spanking…each other…
20. Dittohead4Life | November 28th, 2007 at 5:28 am
Jeremiah, back in the good old days it was also acceptable for a teacher to draw blood on a child,…
Lie of the Day, jerkweed, unless your “good old days” means the Eighth Century. You give me proof of teachers being allowed to draw blood.
Jeremiah, show me a disciplined adult, and you’ll be showing me a person whose parents didn’t “spare the rod.” I got my share of leather on the arse, for sure. It helped teach me to respect others and their property. The youth of today are coddled, fat, and lazy. Most of them need a boot in the arse; however, you have to be aware of retaliation these days…
21. JJ | November 28th, 2007 at 6:08 am
I got plenty of spanks and turned out ok
The spanks where always done by my parents with ‘love’ and not out of hatred.
I spent 4 years as a teacher (in South Africa), and its bad news that spanking is no longer allowed at schools. Before if a child/teenager was out of line send them to the head master for a good wack. Problem handled quickly, now bad behavior is either ignored (not much you can do) or leads to long disciplinary hearings which get the parents (and sometimes lawyers involved). These hearings cost a lot of money and time and the child/teenager hardly ever has a repentant heart - they just become more rebellious.
22. Kilobug | November 28th, 2007 at 6:25 am
So, you want to teach respect by lacking of respect ? You want to teach that violence is bad by using violence ?
If you want to teach respect, you’ve to show respect. You’ve to show the value of respect. And you’ve to make the child understand that you deserve respect. That’s not something you can with spanking. You can induce fear, but not respect.
If you want to teach that violence is bad, you’ve to start by not using it yourself. By explaining to the child that, even if you are physically stronger and have the power to use violence on him, you refuse to: because it’s bad.
People tend to repeat what was done to them. Kids who were beaten are more violent than the others. Because they were “educated” to believe that violence is a solution to problems.
I never was beaten by my parents. Never ever. For that, among other, I’ve a real, profound respect for them. Not based on fear. I don’t fear them. But based on love, on something much powerful than fear can be: on trust. But trust has to be constructed. Every blow you give to a children destroys this trust.
Does it make me someone “bad” ? Well, maybe for you, since I’m proudly a leftish. But I’m someone who always show respect to others - even those that I dislike. It wouldn’t cross my mind to use physical violence (or to steal or whatever) unless I’m really forced to (self-defense for example). I’m someone always ready to help others. Because that’s the values I was educated with: love, respect (which can only be mutual), non-violence, trust. Not fear, violence, pain.
And for you who glorify success, I got a CS engineer diploma at the age of 21, while the normal age is 23. And all my siblings did similar. I don’t think anyone is “better” than any other, but you definitely can’t say that my “non violent” education did any harm to me - to us, with my siblings.
As for authority…
I did obey my parents, most of the time. Not by fear of them (which would make me eager to disobey as soon as I know I can’t be catched), but by trust toward them. Even if I didn’t understand why they were forbidding me to do something, I obeyed them, most of the time. Because I knew they wanted my well-being (something a beaten child can’t know, or at least not as deeply), and that they are much wise than me.
But I also questioned authority. And that’s another fundamental point of education. Blindly obeying authority by fear of punishment is not being a human, it’s being a robot, a slave. Blind obediance to authority is how the worse is possible, from Hitler to Stalin. Sociological studies show that authority is the easiest way to make any “average” human commit horrible acts - including murder - he wouldn’t have done otherwise. Education should teach to respect legitimate authority (the one based on trust, on “he is more wise than me”) but to challenge any illegitimate authority, like any authority based only on physical force.
23. hermie | November 28th, 2007 at 7:51 am
So, how are they going to enforce this?
Are they going to devote a special unit of the Attorney General’s office and State Police solely to track down parents who spank?
Will they encourage kids to report their parents, or the parents of other kids…Maybe establish a ‘Young Pioneers’ corp to spy on and report to the Massachusetts government.
Will they redefine ‘abuse’ to include ‘hateful words’ or ‘disrespect’?
24. Kilobug | November 28th, 2007 at 8:07 am
So, hermie, we should scrap the laws forbidding a husband to beat his wife, because it’s hard to enforce, because it encourages a wife to report her husband, or to neighbors to do it ?
25. AAR | November 28th, 2007 at 8:23 am
It’s time we put spanking back in the schools!
When spanking was used in the schools, we did not have the violence and disrespect in the schools we have today. Teachers did not have to fear the students. Kids who badly misbehaved knew they would get a “good” paddling, and most behaved just knowing what to expect if they misbehaved. Women teachers did not have to deal with the “big” boys either. The principal or physically fit coaches took care of those “wanna be” bullies for them!
And school suspensions were a rare event… not an every day occurrence!
Spanking works!!!
It’s Liberalism and the idiots who preach it that are the failure!!!
AAR
26. AAR | November 28th, 2007 at 8:57 am
Fox News skewered the Democrat HYPOCRITE legislator behind this bill.
When asked if HE spanked HIS children, he refused to answer the question. He was asked again and again, but still refused to answer, saying that he [and his beliefs] was not going to be drawn into the debate. He then passed the monkey to one of his “constituents” who feels “strongly about the issue” and for whom it was introduced!!!
Finally the HYPOCRITE was pointed out for what HE IS!
It’s clear Massachusetts is working hard to prove they are just as nutty there on the East Coast as California is on the West Coast!
Balance like that we don’t need!!!
AAR
27. navydad | November 28th, 2007 at 10:03 am
Hmmm…I’m 53 and can’t remember one of my friends that has ever used spanking as anything other than a reminder of “who’s the boss”.
Conversely, I can name a dozen thirty-somethingers that do not spank, nor do they discipline their children for fear of retribution…from the law. They also allow the children to rule the roost. Why, because the children percieve their position in the home as equal to the parents. This, is a big mistake and irreversible in most cases.
28. hermie | November 28th, 2007 at 10:42 am
kilobug:
You have not succeeded in twisting ’spanking’ to automatically mean ‘child abuse’. Corporal punishment is distasteful to some people, but there are times where it is required, and instead of reasonable application of the law, the people of Massachusetts have hysterically come to the conclusion that all punishment equates to abuse.
29. Eric T | November 28th, 2007 at 11:07 am
This is another fine example of democrats intruding on your freedom. You may need a democrat when it comes to raising taxes to pay for a bridge or new school, police station ect.. ect. But, Do you really need a democrat at your house telling you how to discipline your kids? For some advice out of the Holy Bible.
Proverbs 1:7, 13:24, 22:15, 20:30, 6:23, 12:1, 13:1, 15:5, 29:15
Isaiah:38:16
Hebrews 12:9-11
Ephesians 6:4
30. ZootAllure | November 28th, 2007 at 11:15 am
kilobug, pelirrojo….do you have children?
If not….you dont have a clue.
Navydad,
I seen several homes like you describe. Kids with no boundaries or respect.
My kids infrequently get what I call attention pops. When something is amiss I will count to 3…if by 3 it isnt right I get their attention. They are now 10 and 8 and I rarely reach 3. Many have commented on their good manners and behavior. I am the parent and I will not expect or accept less…thats my job.
I dont believe vigorous spanking is usually productive but I also dont believe that the state has any right to meddle short of actual abuse.
31. Retired Spook | November 28th, 2007 at 11:27 am
So, how are they going to enforce this?
That is the $64 million question, isn’t it, Hermie? Like most liberal, feel-good issues, I doubt that anyone has really thought this through as far as what the unintended consequences might be. I can visualize something akin to the Hitler Youth turning their parents into the spanking police.
As a kid, I was always getting in trouble and talking back to my parents, and I got spanked (usually with a switch or belt after my mom broke all my long Lincoln Logs over my butt) up until I was around 12 or 13. I guess after that my folks must have thought I was too big to spank, and they started coming up with more innovative ways to punish me. Mostly, though, I think I just straightened out, and rarely did anything that required severe punishment. (either that, or I didn’t get caught as much, heh, heh.) Incidently, my mom is 87, and she and I joke about the Lincoln Logs to this day.
My wife and I discovered very early on that spanking didn’t work with either of our daughters. When they were both very young (around 2 & 5), we took a course offered by our church called “Parent Effectiveness Training”. It was the best thing we ever did. P.E.T. is all about using logical consequences to reward good behavior and to punish bad behavior. It takes some work on the part of the parents, because you have to get involved with your kids and learn what makes them tick and what they like and don’t like. I can’t guarantee that it would work for everyone, but it worked for us.
32. Parker | November 28th, 2007 at 11:29 am
Just out of curiosity, can anyone out there cite a study that definitively concludes that spanking produces a more violent individual than one who was not spanked? I doubt it.
Many people were raised in families where parents used spanking as a form of punishment. The vast majority of these people are not bullies, violent criminals, or spouse abusers and they love and respect their parents.
I believe the issue here is whether you are dealing with discipline or child abuse. The problems arise when punishment is applied out of anger and/or frustration as opposed to controlled discipline.
Abuse can be administered without physical contact. Constant shouting down and berating can certainly have far more devastating effects on the development of a child then an occasional spanking.
The “self defense” argument that children should be allowed to hit their parents back is absurd. With that logic, children should also be allowed to talk back to their parents when they are corrected verbally (it’s called debating or defending one’s opinion). You cannot equate adult interactions with those of parent and child.
My point that any form of discipline, if applied judiciously can be effective. Just as any form of discipline that is used over excessively can be considered abuse. Therefore it is difficult, if not impossible to legislate.
33. JPL | November 28th, 2007 at 12:20 pm
LiberalT and pelirrojo — Are you arguing that if an individual right isn’t enumerated in the Constitution, then the state is free to simply legislate it away? Because if you are, then aren’t you opening the door to the possible future removal of nearly all our individual rights at common law, since most of those rights AREN’T enumerated in the Constitution? For example, parental rights in general aren’t mentioned in the Constitution. If we accept your argument that unenumerated rights can be legislated away, then if Massachusetts wanted to, it could take away ALL parental rights, and require that all children be removed from their biological parents and raised by the state. Now, perhaps you’re OK with that, but I assure you I’m not, nor are any normal Americans.
Moreover, your argument completely ignores the Ninth and Tenth Amendments to the Constitution, which read as follows:
“IX. The enumeration, in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”
and
“X. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
A court could conceivably find that the right to discipline one’s own child (short of inflicting permanent serious physical injury), was widely recognized at the time of the adoption of the U.S. Constitution, and that it is therefore a right “reserved to the people” under the Ninth and Tenth Amendments. I concede I’m not an expert in this particular area of Constitutional law, but there does seem to be a reasonable argument to be made that this Massachusetts bill, if passed, would be unconstitutional.
Finally, your apparent readiness to give up a long-standing individual right simply because it violates your fashionable ideas on child-rearing, is a bit frightening.
34. phnx | November 28th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
This sounds like the trial lawyers seeking a new clientele. There have already been suits brought by children aagainst their parents. This law is guarunteed to flood the courts.
If you leftists can’t distinguidh between spanking and child abuse, its no wonder you have no clue about torture…which I’m sure you equate with spanking.
This is part of leftist psychobabel. Its a desire to see everyone and everything as equal. The result is an attack on authority. Kids equal parents equals no respect for parents, for adults, for teachers, and for police. Its no wonder we have BIG problems of discipline is schools.
Thanks leftists.
35. liberalT | November 28th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
wow - show me where it says anywhere in any legal document ever in the US that people have the right to beat their children for whatever reason. Then we can talk all you want about legislating away rights.. Until that point you are just defending a barbaric practice.
36. phnx | November 28th, 2007 at 5:59 pm
“If you leftists can?t distinguish between spanking and child abuse…”
Obviosly LiberalT can’t
37. Ricorun | November 28th, 2007 at 6:07 pm
liberalT: wow - show me where it says anywhere in any legal document ever in the US that people have the right to beat their children for whatever reason.
More to the point, and as JPL explained, show me where it says they can’t. Isn’t that the important question? I’m not saying it can’t be done. I’m just saying it’s likely to be highly convoluted. And somehow it will have to do with tying in “ancillary crimes” (as Dasein suggested in a previous post — pardon me for hoisting DL on his own petard, but I couldn’t resist). In this situation, I hope it means that one would have to conflate corporal punishment with child abuse. IMO, and without going into detail (though I could on several levels), they are worlds apart.
38. JPL | November 28th, 2007 at 6:13 pm
No, LiberalT, YOU answer MY question first: If, as you say, Massachusetts can pass a law taking away parents’ ancient right to discipline their children as they see fit, then YOU explain to ME what (if anything) in the Constitution would prevent Massachusetts from passing a law turning our children over to be raised by the state. It’s a simple question; stop dodging the issue and try to provide a serious answer it, if you can.
39. Dasein Libsbane | November 28th, 2007 at 7:07 pm
Rico,
Leave my petard out of this!
To To tie the issue to “ancillary crimes” would infer that the object is to enforce punishment on that which is not specifically prohibited. (It also infers that the original demeanor is in fact a crime of some nature, hence the reference to “ancillary”.)
Spook,
I’m with you on this; the wife and I discovered early on that if we’re spanking its because we’ve lost control of the situation and have run out of ideas. Spanking wouldn’t achieve the desired results, and we were left with the behavior that needed to be addressed.
40. AAR | November 28th, 2007 at 7:19 pm
Retired Spook,
I have seen a few, very few (I can count them on the fingers of one hand) parents who can and did an excellent job of raising their children without, or with almost no spankings. It can be done, but it requires more parenting skills, knowledge, understanding of psychology and child behavior, and dedication than most people have. It requires close observation and paying attention to the children and stopping or correcting any bad behavior before it becomes established and leads to even worse behavior. In the cases I have seen, it works best when there’s only one child or two at most. It also depends on the individual child and his or her personality, intelligence, and other factors — some of which are beyond a parent’s control.
On the other hand, I have seen a multitude of people who raised their kids the Liberal way, with little or no discipline or responsibility, with the children basically running the show, and being given whatever they want. I have seen many, many kids raised the “Dr. Spock” way. Their parents are paying for it. We all are paying for it and living with the results of that type of liberal, permissive child rearing in America today. Americans are all too good at producing children, but unfortunately, few are parents.
For most parents, a little judicious spanking is useful and effective. Just like diplomacy works best when backed up by strength and the possibility of military action, words and verbal discipline work best when backed up by the knowledge that stronger measures will surely follow if those words are ignored.
AAR
41. Dasein Libsbane | November 28th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
And, it’s hoist with not on. As in shot in the air from his own explosive.
42. Dasein Libsbane | November 28th, 2007 at 7:26 pm
AAR,
I know what you mean; my child didn’t respond to the weapons inspectors until we threatened her favorite stuffed bunny with nuclear annihilation.
That got her attention, course that meant we were stuck policing her room for the next four years.
43. AAR | November 28th, 2007 at 8:03 pm
Dasein Libsbane,
If threatening to “nuke the bunny” works, that’s great!
I’d say that a creative approach which fits in with understanding of psychology and child behavior, applied psychology, dedication to parenting, close observation, and paying attention to the individual child and his or her personality, intelligence, etc.
Most parents I have seen don’t have those abilities! If you or they choose judicious spanking, that’s also your right — a method and a right which has existed for thousands of years — before Liberals decided they know better!
AAR
44. liberalT | November 28th, 2007 at 9:01 pm
Simple:
there isn’t a an ancient right to discipline your children “any way you see fit”. If you saw fit to tie your child up naked to the lamp post in the middle of the winter and leave them there over night would it be taking away a right for the state to say you shouldn’t do that?
In just the same way that they DO tell you you can’t do that - they could also tell you not to physically harm your child in anyway. I don’t see your point at all
45. Angry Redneck | November 28th, 2007 at 10:04 pm
Another liberal theory…spanking your child as a form of discipline teaches them to be violent and could further damage their life or well-being. I’ve also heard people say that the more educated a person is the less likely they are to spank. Bull! I think it may be closer to how that person was raised, rather than their educational level. Love to see the research (if any) behind that one.
I am absolutely thankful for every spanking I received. It wasn’t until I was 17 before I ever had the audacity to tell my dad “No”, let alone steal the family car or cuss at my parents…I’m 37 now and still wouldn’t.
I’m not saying that spanking is the only form of discipline, some kids may be more receptive to other forms. It should be up to the parent to decide. If the government wants to take away parental judgment, then the government should raise them.
46. JPL | November 28th, 2007 at 10:42 pm
“I don’t see your point at all”
Funny, I don’t believe you. I think you see my point perfectly well, because:
#1) You had to lie about what I said. Contrary to your “quote”, I never said parents have the right to discipline their children “any way [they] see fit”. I said they’ve long had the right to discipline their children “as they see fit…short of inflicting permanent serious physical injury.” You conveniently left out the part about parents not inflicting “serious bodily injury.”
#2) Even an idiot knows that “t[ying] your child up naked to the lamp post in the middle of the winter and leav[ing] them there overnight” isn’t anything like “spanking.” The behavior you describe constitutes several serious crimes, including false imprisonment, recklessly endangering another person, and probably aggravated assault, and possibly attempted murder. To compare these acts to “spanking” is idiocy.
#3) You’re STILL trying to weasel out of my question, which was this: If, as YOU say, Massachusetts can pass a law taking away parents’ right to discipline their children as they see fit short of inflicting serious bodily injury, then YOU explain to ME: What (if anything) in the Constitution would prevent Massachusetts from passing a law turning our children over to be raised by the state? As I said, it’s a simple question; you just don’t have the spine, integrity, or possibly brains, to try to answer it.
47. phnx | November 28th, 2007 at 10:56 pm
“a creative approach which fits in with understanding of psychology and child behavior, applied psychology…”
Spook, You had better not even think of depriving them of something or our leftist friends will accuse you of torture.
Why don’t we just let the a UN comission decide what is appropriate child discipline, and then monitor each family with kids?
48. liberalT | November 28th, 2007 at 11:01 pm
uh liar dude .. here is your quote:
“No, LiberalT, YOU answer MY question first: If, as you say, Massachusetts can pass a law taking away parents’ ancient right to discipline their children as they see fit, then YOU explain to ME what (if anything) in the Constitution would prevent Massachusetts from passing a law turning our children over to be raised by the state. It’s a simple question; stop dodging the issue and try to provide a serious answer it, if you can.”
so :
(1) you are liar
(2) i answered you - telling parents they can’t beat their children is not taking away any ancient right - they had no right to beat their children in the first place
At any rate - where does it ever say any where that you can discipline your child anything short of “serious physical harm”
what is wrong with you ??
49. AAR | November 28th, 2007 at 11:03 pm
Note the typical Democrat propaganda trick of changing a SPANKING into a BEATING, physical ASSAULT, physical VIOLENCE, and TYING KIDS to lamp posts in the middle of winter. Note how Democrats (Liberals ) want the reader to imagine a little child bleeding and beaten to within an inch of their lives by their big bully parents — perhaps by a bull whip or board. Note too how Democrats (Liberals) want people to believe that spankings are a real problem that’s out of control!
We already have laws that cover severely beating children to the point of child abuse — or adults for that matter? Unfortunately, the average and typical American these days easily falls for this type of Democrat indoctrination and brainwashing. Even worse, we permit the Democrats get away with pushing their lies and agenda until they finally succeed in forcing yet another of their liberal agenda items on American. We wake up one day and wonder what happened to America, because we failed to fight the Democrats and their liberal agenda each and every time they try shoving it down the throats of Americans!
Liberals… Get a grip on reality! A light spanking is not the same as a brutal beating. Kids get hurt in their play every day and oftentimes much more seriously and painfully that a spanking. A slap on the wrist or a couple of light swats on their rear is really quite beneficial and, when used sparingly and rationally, works quite well to reduce the more serious behavioral problems we see rampant in America’s [Liberal raised] children today. Too bad Liberals don’t learn how to effectively use a little spanking and more discipline when raising their own children. Perhaps we wouldn’t have so many disrespectful kids and those already in or headed for jail — or worse! Instead of outlawing spankings, the laws should restore it to the schools!
Wake up America. Weak minded bleeding heart Democrats (Liberals) and Liberalism are destroying America. It’s time Americans unite and put a stop to their idiotic ideas and laws!
Before you permit Democrats to tell you how to raise your children, tell them to do something about their own disrespectful, hateful, irresponsible, juvenile delinquent kids!!!
AAR
50. AAR | November 28th, 2007 at 11:09 pm
liberalT,
You are the one talking about beating, the rest of us are talking about spanking!
Tipical Liberal!!!
AAR
51. liberalT | November 28th, 2007 at 11:24 pm
of course there are different levels of violence. Of course they ar e not all the same - none the less all levels of violence are unacceptable - period.
52. AAR | November 28th, 2007 at 11:25 pm
“Dr. Robert Larzelere of the University of Nebraska Medical Center reviewed 38 studies and found that in children under 7, nonabusive spanking produced no harmful effects and reduced misbehavior when used as a backup for milder discipline techniques like reasoning or timeouts.”
AAR
53. AAR | November 28th, 2007 at 11:26 pm
Liberals and their cancerous Liberalism are unacceptable — PERIOD!!!
AAR
54. phnx | November 28th, 2007 at 11:37 pm
Hillary has now weighed in on the subect. Her plan, will be implemented shortly after her coronation. Her plan solves not only the rampant child abuse epidemic which is sweeping the nation, but it also helps to aleviate unemployment amongst leftists, as well as solve illegal immigration.
To summarize:
1. Each politically conservative family with children will be assigned to a leftist who will monitor the family interaction with a series of audio and video monitors to be installed in each house. The family to be monitored will have to pay for the cost of installation, as well as the cost for the monitor. If no leftist can be found to monitor, then the job will be assigned to an illegal alien, who will gain citizenship after 2 weeks as a program monitor as a reward for doing jobs that Americans won’t do.
2. Fundementalist Christian parents will be sent to internment camps run by Wicca, for re-education . Their children will be sent to camps run by ELF and PETA, where they will learn to become vegan Eco Warriors.
3. After one year of re-education the families will be re-united and the children will be responsible for monitoring their parnets and reporting any deviant, anti-social, anti-statist, christian behavior.
Who can be against this plan?…after all…
Its for the children.
55. AAR | November 28th, 2007 at 11:41 pm
phnx,
No doubt that’s what Hillary and the Democrats would like to do!
It’s up to us to stop them!!!
AAR
56. liberalT | November 28th, 2007 at 11:43 pm
yes and i could quote several studies which found that spanking is indeed harmful.
57. Angry Redneck | November 29th, 2007 at 1:24 am
And I can quote just as many that says it is not…
58. Eric T | November 29th, 2007 at 7:30 am
Liberal T
There is no need for the bias lib-trickery research. People should be able to see from two miles away that the issue is simply too much government. If your a time-out guy, great. To even make the claim that time-out is the best method is ok. But to suggest anyone who chooses another way to discipline is wrong and then to support legislation that would criminalize people using traditional methods of discipline, goes way beyond arrogance. And when the libs unite and pass the bill. What phnx said in #54 is the kind of enforcement that this new law would require. And to some extent would become reality.
A real conservative is who you need to vote for, a moderate or watered down Republican may try to compromise and allow some measures to be taken to satisfy the libs. A true conservative will shut this nonsense down and that’s it. Liberal T just vote Mike Huckabee you obvisously can’t see what too much government looks like. He will keep you safe from it.
59. Eric T | November 29th, 2007 at 7:38 am
Liberal T
A related topic is my wife enjoys when I spank her. Is a democrat going to work their way into my bedroom and prohibit and regulate the activities that my wife and I feel are kind of personal.
If a kid is playing with matches in the house, or trying to stick a fork in an electric socket, or getting ready to touch the hot burner on a stove. What is so wrong with swatting his hand or rear and yelling “No”.
60. unreal Aka PlainJane | November 29th, 2007 at 8:37 am
Redneck,
Love it! “I’ve also heard people say that the more educated a person is the less likely they are to spank. Bull” When we talked on this issue last night I sent you exactly how many case studies showing that education level and use of spanking are interrelated, Did not get one website from you disproving this theory.
You talk a good talk online, too bad no one else lives with you and knows you better than I.
If you want to turn this into a personal issue we can, nothing like airing all of our dirty laundry online to a bunch of stranger’s….like I said more time working on your marriage and family, and less time blogging!
Your Wife.
61. AAR | November 29th, 2007 at 9:43 am
AAR
62. phnx | November 29th, 2007 at 10:06 am
When reason and timeouts fail to achieve the desired behavior, I support spanking as a form of discipline. But it is important that one should never be administed in anger.
63. AAR | November 29th, 2007 at 10:54 am
phnx,
An occasional spanking and the real possibility of another spanking make reason, timeouts, and other forms of discipline even more effective!
AAR
64. Angry Redneck | November 29th, 2007 at 11:29 am
unreal Aka PlainJane Aka Jacqueline,
Once again, show all the class you can muster…and you really want to make somekind of a “my parents are more educated than yours” argument?
65. phnx | November 29th, 2007 at 1:07 pm
As for interogation techiques for terrorists, I am all for reason and timeouts…
and then waterboarding.
(That ought to drive our moonbat trolls up the wall, heh heh)
66. Dasein Libsbane | November 29th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Redneck/unreal,
As much as we’ll all enjoy watching the train wreck; please stop before one of you posts something you can’t take back.
Now, if you can’t behave I’ll have to seperate you until you can play nice. If that doesn’t work I’ll have Eric’s wife spank you both, and phnx will waterboard your bull.
Don’t make me nuke your bunnies!
67. Angry Redneck | November 29th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
DL,
Thanks for the slap back to reality! I just get a bit ticked when I get policed more than the 16 y/o.
68. unreal | November 29th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
DL,
The train wreck happened a long time ago. Like I said if he wants to air the laundry, we can. As for Eric’s wife, send her over, thing may be the only thing that myself and my “christian” husband haven’t tried. Why do you think we have 6 kids and another on the way. Life just gets better and better doesn’t it.
69. FmrMarine | November 29th, 2007 at 7:08 pm
I raised three sons, used the belt on all 3.
(on the butt only) never slap, hit, punch, or demean,
BUT a couple of good swipes with the double folded 2 ‘ belt did wonders.
(double folded for sound effect).
I never had to implement it very often though because, the kids knew Dad meant business and it HURT.
My brother in law was amazed one Christmas when none of the 10 or so kids would listen. I entered the room stated, 1-2-3 at the end of three the talking was over if no action was being made well….., my three sons were already in the bathroom washing by the 3 count. No threats no hitting just the knowledge that the BS time was over.
Also
In junior high in Kenmore NY, the male teachers monitored the hallways with FRAT style paddles, and believe me if ole Sgt. Pencasic took a disliking for you watch out.
We didnt go home and cry to our parents we got paddled in the school if we did we would probably get one from Dad, and laughed out of school for being such a wuss to complain.
70. Dasein Libsbane | November 29th, 2007 at 7:30 pm
Seven kids? Congratulations! I respect your decision to accept so much responsibility.
My father once told me that he and mom “never” got along in 25 years of marriage. He clamed that after the first was born they only “tolerated” the sight of one another for the “sake of the kids.” Really? Then where did the other four kids come from?
Sounds to me like you two had nothing to play with while waiting for someone to rescue you after the train wrecked.
I’m curious, and it’s completely off the subject, but how do you manage to converse via a blog? My wife types 130 words per minute; if she and I went at it on-line I’d never get out more that “Uh … well … I … never … you … if … wait … monkey … spoon … oh yeah?”.
The “truth” of being married to a lawyer is that I can’t ever win an argument, but I can always trump her argument with cool accountant logic … then sleep on the front lawn.
71. liberalT | November 29th, 2007 at 7:35 pm
Eric what you do with a consenting adult in your bedroom is none of anyone else business. TOTALLY different.
72. Dasein Libsbane | November 29th, 2007 at 7:54 pm
Between consenting adults; Like Prostitution?
73. liberalT | November 29th, 2007 at 10:05 pm
you see Dasein you prove my point exactly. Not everything the government forbids you from doing is the government trying to to overstep its bounds. Stop mixing up issues.
74. Sadly, No! » From N&hellip | November 29th, 2007 at 11:28 pm
[…] Thoughtful people engaging in real debate: That’s Blogs for Bush Victory™. […]
75. JPL | December 1st, 2007 at 12:46 am
LiberalT: You may be the stupidest blogger on the Internet. Your reading comprehension and reasoning are approximately zero. You don’t even understand the difference in meaning between the phrases “as they see fit (short of serious physical injury)” and “ANY way they see fit.” Nor do you understand the difference between spanking a child and killing it. You are truly an idiot and a waste of time.
76. James King&hellip | February 18th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
James King
77. js | May 2nd, 2008 at 12:47 pm
nobody is hacker proof, eh?
78. Gay Sex Gay Sex Videos Bl&hellip | May 27th, 2008 at 4:26 am
Gay Sex Gay Sex Videos Black Gay Men
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
79. Teen Petite Teens Teen Ti&hellip | May 27th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Teen Petite Teens Teen Titans Hentai
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
Leave a Comment
Please report any inappropriate or abusive comments to abuse@blogsforvictory.com. Please include the blog entry title and the comment number.
Some HTML allowed:
<a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <code> <em> <i> <strike> <strong>
Trackback this post | Subscribe to the comments via RSS Feed