34 Comments

• 1. Magnum Serpentine  |  July 9th, 2008 at 7:08 am

  Matt,

  One more time. The Citizens of this nation don’t care about this topic of abortion. It will not effect how they vote one way or the other. They are far more concerned with the Economy and the disastrous george war in Iraq. Poll after poll shows Abortion running near last place.

• 2. js  |  July 9th, 2008 at 7:20 am

  speak for yourself…..

• 3. Pain  |  July 9th, 2008 at 7:33 am

  2. js | July 9th, 2008 at 7:20 am

  It is an easily corrected thing js just start following your Bible and stoning Christian girls who get abortions in public and in ninety days the problem will solve itself by either most of the fundies being in prison [guests of state governments for murder in an ironic twist that sort of tastes to Us like unagi flavored gumdrops] of teenage girls being too terrified to go to Planned Parenthood.

  Is this not the sort of Old Testament unusual punishment that you seek that you wish to kill women who decry with their own bodies they are free by not being bound to breed when a man chooses? Can you even debate this topic rationally? We, Ourselves do not think so.

• 4. OhioOrrin  |  July 9th, 2008 at 7:38 am

  the polling I’ve seen shows the majority support regulated, legal abortion w commonsense restrictions including late term bans.

  the minority rightwing social extremists on abortion & stem cells, coupled w immigration, will ensure the GOP is little more than a backbench annoyance at the Fed, State, & local levels.

  these social extremists must be purged from the party so the GOP can capture the majority center by refocusing on balancing the budget, shrinking the Fed govt, & respecting States rights.

• 5. TampaBayRayz-4-evah-don't-mess  |  July 9th, 2008 at 8:00 am

  Etda. PAIN:

  If the debate were about abortion I would find it legitmate. I happen to believe that a woman ought to have the right to choose or not choose abortion.

  I can’t say, for certain, though that anti-abortionists are wrong. It’s certainly plausible, though extremely unlikely, that abortion is murder. I can no more convince someone who believes such a thing that he’s wrong anymore that he can convince me I’m wrong. It is a legititmate debate to have, though.

  Try having that argument sometime and try ending it with agreeing to disagree. It never happens because to American abortion opponents, abortion is the smallest part of their philosophy.

  Everyone — pro-choice and pro-life — is AGAINST abortion. Who exactly LIKES having an abortion? So, what’s the problem, then?

  The problem is that their campaign is not against abortion. It is against sex.

• 6. Cooldown  |  July 9th, 2008 at 8:08 am

  Everyone — pro-choice and pro-life — is AGAINST abortion. TampaBayRayz-4-evah-don’t-mess | July 9th, 2008 at 8:00 am

  This is so true. And the Party Platform with the best approach for reducing the number of abortions is the Democratic Party.

• 7. SEW  |  July 9th, 2008 at 8:33 am

  ” And the Party Platform with the best approach for reducing the number of abortions is the Democratic Party.” Cooldown

  And the Democrats will give everyone puppy dogs, free health care, new houses, balance the budget, not raise taxes, protect our troops, lower gas prices without producing or destroying ANWR or coastal regions, no nuclear power plants, no coal, no new refineries and provide more energy at lower prices! Bush/Cheney/Rove and other neocons will be impeached for treason, or according to Lou Dobbs impeached for the Salmonella outbreak. World hostilities will be solved by Hussein’s diplomatic efforts, not by warmongers.

  Everyone that votes Democrat will be eligible for $thousands in rebates.

• 8. Fredrick Schwartz  |  July 9th, 2008 at 9:01 am

  5. TampaBayRayz-4-evah-don’t-mess | July 9th, 2008 at 8:00 am

  What you said, “Everyone — pro-choice and pro-life — is AGAINST abortion. Who exactly LIKES having an abortion? So, what’s the problem, then?

  The problem is that their campaign is not against abortion. It is against sex.”

  Focused clear and concise, a bull’s eye!
  You go right to the head of the class Tampa for letting the Puritans know they have no clothes on.

  My friend it’s just the most raw nerve in the back of the anti-contraception, anti-sex before marriage, marriage is only for one man and one woman 12th Century claptrap peddlers.

  A woman’s right to choose is a Constitutional right. Period. Next topic?

  I just wired $100 to Planned Parenthood by way of our embassy in San Francisco and hope that all my co-workers [all 68, 239 of them] will do the same.

• 9. Fredrick Schwartz  |  July 9th, 2008 at 9:04 am

  7. SEW | July 9th, 2008 at 8:33 am

  So what do you offer SEW some weepy religious crap for women in a time of peril. A religious guilt trip because you didn’t get laid after the prom and are merely Middle Class so maybe G-d will help? Get your religion out of other people’s freedoms and you will find your party looks a lot like the America a man named Lincoln was trying to save from dissolution

• 10. neocon  |  July 9th, 2008 at 9:53 am

  Pain,

  So do you honestly think that the majority of those abortions are caused by forced breeding? Even when the man has completely abdicated his responsibility?

  And your third person narrative speaks volumes about your immature mindset. Just saying. The main conservative thrust of this is to vociferously discourage this practice while at the same time making it available to those who truly need it. The sex part? Maybe the far right evangelicals would want that, but then again, they are your polar opposites and have little influence with the conservative mainstream.

  Frederick,

  A womans right to choose is a constitutional right? Really?

  Why that would completely eliminate any responsibility of, or input from the father, and you yourself in an earlier thread acknowledged his role and responsiblity, albeit reluctantly.

  So which is it? Help me out here.

  Have a fine day on terra
  peace, neocon

  Vicodin,

  So you’d even support a woman’s decision not to have an abortion? Wow, how magnanimous of you.

• 11. TampaBayRayz-4-evah-don't-mess  |  July 9th, 2008 at 10:04 am

  Neocon: All of Vicodin-N-Cocoa’s comments were deleted by the administrator. Vicodin-N-Cocoa doesn’t exist anymore. My handle is what it is. I’ve been into the Rayz since they changed owners and management. And I hate the Yankees, so this year has been pretty special.

  I don’t consider my views of abortion to be magnanimous or not magnanimous. They’re merely my views. I’m not a woman. It’s not my decision.

• 12. neocon  |  July 9th, 2008 at 10:11 am

  It’s not your decision?

  What if your girlfriend or wife, or dark mistress, or dominant vixen, or sister chose not to carry your child to term despite your strong desire to be that childs father.

  Would you have any part of the decision?

• 13. Tuneup  |  July 9th, 2008 at 10:27 am

  7. SEW | July 9th, 2008 at 8:33 am

  Wow, somebody has been listening to a lot of Hannity and Limbaugh.

• 14. neocon  |  July 9th, 2008 at 10:35 am

  Vicodin,

  Are you there?

• 15. SEW  |  July 9th, 2008 at 10:51 am

  “Wow, somebody has been listening to a lot of Hannity and Limbaugh”

  Have you not been listening to Hussein?

• 16. TampaBayRayz-4-evah-don't-mess  |  July 9th, 2008 at 11:05 am

  Neocon: I didn’t like having all of my comments erased, so there’s no Vicodin anymore. This is my handle until these comments begin to disappear.

  Unfortunately, I do not have a LEGAL part of that decision. If I felt like bringing new life into the world with that woman was the optimal choice, I would let my opinion be known and try to persuade.

  Luckily for me, I have never been in that position. My son was planned. The times that I’ve impregnated women, they and I were in accord that terminating the pregnancy made the most sense.

  I’ve already written that I can’t argue the morality of abortion with an abortion opponent. Our views are too far apart and we’ll resolve nothing.

  Given that I’ve decided to pass on the polemic, please respect that and spare me bible quotes and sob stories.

  Thanks.

• 17. neocon  |  July 9th, 2008 at 11:13 am

  Vicodin,

  I thought you lived in South America away from this misogynistic, sexually repressive country.

  And when have you ever witnessed me posting Bible quotes? Or is that just another sensationalistic deflection liberals love to employ?

  And it was never your handle that was deleted, but your inane rants. You’ll always be Vicodin to me though.

  have a collective day
  peace, neocon

• 18. js  |  July 9th, 2008 at 1:21 pm

  This issue about a womans right…its an absolute…but its not a right to abortion…because in the absence of technology….morality is the core theme….that a woman should, and does, have a choice to make, to have sex, or not to have sex….this is the defining issue in the whole process…because when we use the convenience of technology….as a crutch to an addiction to sex…instead of responsibility…then the pro abortion activists tend to ignore the use of that choice women make….while they strive to justify abortion….

  but after the choice is made…and the woman has consented to the use of her womb and becomes pregnant…life is concieved….a human being exists…directly due to the womans choice…a human being that pro abortionists refuse to acknowledge as equal in rights to a brain dead comatose person on life support…a human being whom our own courts refuse to grant the right to life because of lies and because of disrespect for human life that exists when we grant abortion on demand….

  its not complex…there is no need to hide behind anyone or anything in this issue…all we need to know the difference between right from wrong is a basic instinct that we should do unto others what we want done to ourselves….

  stuff we learned in kindergarden….

• 19. js  |  July 9th, 2008 at 1:25 pm

  3. Pain

  once again…you make idiotic statements and draw illegitimate conclusions based on those idiotic statements that only tend to force us to conclude….

  that you are still a halfwit and a stooge with no idea what is right or wrong….

• 20. Fredrick Schwartz  |  July 9th, 2008 at 1:40 pm

  18. js | July 9th, 2008 at 1:21 pm

  “This issue about a womans [sic] right…its an absolute…but its not a right to abortion…because in the absence of technology….morality is the core theme….that a woman should, and does, have a choice to make, to have sex, or not to have sex….this is the defining issue in the whole process”–js

  Isn’t that just one of those hypothetical arguments you hate when Progressives post them? What if there was no technology? Please man, come on, that’s horse crap! There is and has been since the time of the Ancient Greeks known technological methods to abort a fetus that have been used up to the 18th and 19th centuries in Europe and America.

  But enough of that it’s a waste of time. let me devolve fully and ask you were the National Socialists of Germany from 1933 to 1945 pro life or pro choice?

• 21. Fredrick Schwartz  |  July 9th, 2008 at 3:08 pm

  12. neocon | July 9th, 2008 at 10:11 am

  No.

• 22. Pain  |  July 9th, 2008 at 3:10 pm

  19. js | July 9th, 2008 at 1:25 pm

  Half of Our wits js is more than all the collected knowledge of your entire race.

• 23. js  |  July 9th, 2008 at 3:59 pm

  22. Pain

  sure glad your conceit doesnt mean squat….

  20. Fredrick Schwartz

  there you go…doing exactly what i said pro abortionists do…you ignore the fact that the essence of choice that was already made and pounce with both feet on some illusion so you can run from reality…

  i think the most impressive thing you posted so far was post a false leader like it really had meaning…too bad it doesnt…

  thats the essence of your ignorance fredric black…

• 24. Jeremiah  |  July 9th, 2008 at 7:02 pm

  TampaBayRayz,

  Too many daddies take the attitude that you have taken. Too many daddies find them a woman and she becomes impregnated purely for the expressly for the sexual pleasure and then the two part ways to find a new partner. The woman then says to herself that she doesn’t feel like taking care of the child because the daddy didn’t want to be committed to making a family. So she decides to just kill the child, once the little baby is out and dead, she’s off to another man and they then after their sexual pleasures are over part ways the same as their first partner and third, fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh on up the number system.

  They live in sin several ways…

  First they commit fornication, second, they break their committment to one another, third, they murder the child.

  We can make whatever choices we wish, but Thank God He provided us with the truth or we would all perish and suffer the torment of a Devil’s Hell. So, you see, we have no excuses.

  It’s pretty simple, easy to understand logic.

  We know it’s wrong to murder another person because we understand their inherent worth and value to contribute to society. But the Devil brings out new tricks by telling the lie that the little babies are somehow “less significant” or of “less value” than adults are, so in we take advantage of the worth of each other as adults to seek our pleasures, and get anything which might interfere with that pleasure, therefore, plotting the murder of the most innocent among us. This is where God created the law to make known that evil of such a nature will not be tolerated, but we then, as a nation, and as our leaders become further dependent on their own definitions of the worth of life change still further God’s definition of the intrinsic value and worth of life as He has imparted to us-thus, bending the law to suit their own ideas and agenda to justify murder and let the people to search for happiness in the flesh as they so choose in complete defiance of the Almighty’s Judgment. This will call all Americans and every Nation around the world who disobeys God’s Law into account and subject them to God’s judgment or wrath. Many will not understand it, and question God’s answer. The answer is, God has complete authority over all, and when we don’t abide in Him then we have to suffer the consequences of our disobedience.
  Every American could take a lesson from Sodom and Gomorrah, Babylon, Israel and all. At once they could not understand…but then when the realization came that they were under authority of God their grief turned to immense joy.

• 25. neocon  |  July 9th, 2008 at 7:28 pm

  Frederick,

  So you, as the father, have no right whatsoever, in the decision to have, or not have, the child?

  Why then would you ever hold a father responsible, financially or otherwise, to support that child?

  Couldn’t it be legally argued then that the father, who has no right in the decision process, has no obligation to financially support that decision?

  have a terra kind of day
  peace, neocon

• 26. Max Power  |  July 10th, 2008 at 12:52 am

  One party wants to reduce the number of abortions.

  One party wants intrusive government intervention into family planning and to criminalize conduct they disagree with due to superstitious religious convictions.

• 27. kjstrouble  |  July 10th, 2008 at 3:29 am

  I am usually on the conservative side. But as a woman, and a rape survivor, I believe that the woman has to have the right to choose up until the fetus is viable outside of the womb. Want me to change that view? Develop the technology that allows one woman’s unwanted fetus to be removed from her body and placed either in the body of some one who wants the fetus to grow into a child - or into some sort of artificial womb for the same purpose. We are a technologically advanced society, and you can bet if men were the ones that had to go thru an unwanted pregnancy, this would have happened by now.

  I do not believe that late term abortions should be allowed. If the fetus has become viable (as is the case in most late term abortions) then the fetus is a baby and should be delivered live. What the parent(s) do after that (adoption, keeping the child) are their choice.

• 28. Danish Artist  |  July 10th, 2008 at 5:56 am

  Max Putz,

  just so we are clear…..”Thou shall not kill.” is a “superstitious religious conviction”??

• 29. Pain  |  July 10th, 2008 at 6:14 am

  28. Danish Artist | July 10th, 2008 at 5:56 am

  If the Right Wing are not using religion to gain and keep political power from the superstitious masses then how come religion is such a big part of your policies and yet your leaders remain willing to break every religious law in the Bible?

  “It is an eminence front, it is a put on” to quote roger daltrey. Or as your president would incorrectly state “It is appeasement!”

• 30. Fredrick Schwartz  |  July 10th, 2008 at 6:34 am

  28. Danish Artist | July 10th, 2008 at 5:56 am

  Earlier in the thread I came across the real issue here for wingnuts and that is sex; their lack of it, guilt about it and poor quality of partners when they finally do luck up and find it. Sex is nothing more than a physical act shared between two people than can result in the production of offspring. It is emotional, passionate, addictive, pleasurable and much, much fun when shared by two consenting adults. Notice that I didn’t say anything about sin in that blurb there. That’s because sex [and I have to couch this for all the zealots out there so you can understand that I am talking about adults here] between two consenting adults [as you can see I am against all form of sex with minors, yet I remain on the fence about incest as it relates to 1st cousins and step siblings so there's a bone for you to fight over instead of addressing the actual points of my comment] is none of my business or yours or the government’s.

  At its core this issue is about birth rates, congressional districts and the nation getting more progressive through turning browner every day. It is the march of time my white brothers and sisters! You have had your run and now that huge celestial pendulum with the sharp edges is coming for you and your wives and kids and your McMansions and over limit credit cards.

  Thank you for playing because those kids tow headed you have now will be trading places with the black guy that can’t get a job or the Nicaraguan or Puerto Rican being picked up for day labor by 2050. Congress by then no matter how much gerrymandering you do will look like the crowd at an Arena Football game in Philly instead of the crowd eating lunch in the clubhouse grille at Merion.

  That’s what you are up against and you know it. This isn’t about abortion even though I feel Mark that you are sincere in your religious beliefs and that you do care to save the lives of the unborn. However, in the end this is about white privilege and the sunset on the great run that has lasted since heck 1066! Many historians have predicted an African renaissance in the middle of this century. Maybe that rebirth of the Dark Continent will come from their Diaspora in America reaching out to aid them in exploiting some great new medical cure or that renewable source of energy you are all desperately seeking?

  Who knows? All I do know is abortion really isn’t the hook you think it is. This was about who is having kids in stable homes and raising future elites and upper middle class servants of the elites. Now it is a breeding race between whites and minorities as a bloc and your morality is going to cost you that race because while your trailer park tenth is breeding like flies educated white women are looking at the average white guy and laughing.

  Houston you have a problem.

• 31. Bruce Adams  |  July 10th, 2008 at 9:04 am

  I have not encountered one ‘abortion-is-murder’ type, as yet, that was logically and ethically consistent. And of course, nearly every one of them happily supports a war in which many many children have been slaughtered and of course, the death penalty. No problems there. Let me not even open the can of worms argument that Repub. politicos have stripped daycare/family/social programs. In any case, I would have more respect for the ‘lifers’ if I saw one that actually opposed abortion, war, the death penalty etc. Im only asking for logical consistency.

• 32. neocon  |  July 10th, 2008 at 9:18 am

  Frederick darling,

  Your presumption that the darkening of skin color will lead to a more “progressive” nation exposes your EXTREME racism and ignorance.

  Seriously, that was the most racist paragraph I have ever read by anybody, and I have archived it to embarrass you at every opportunity.

  The rest of your post just embarrasingly exposes your inferiority complex and your obsession with people better than you.

  You really have a lot of internal issues.
  Good luck with that
  have a hellac day
  peace, neocon

• 33. js  |  July 10th, 2008 at 9:45 pm

  more smoke and mirrors….trying to hide from the truth…that what a whole day of thinking does to conservatives…

  and kj…less than 1% of abortions are done for rape victims and child molestation, combined…that means more than 99% of the abortions out there are done to women who gave thier consent to have sex and allowed thier partner to get them pregnant…consent is choice…so essentially…pro choice isnt the right to chose to kill the life you created…it the right to chose not to have sex or to have sex and get pregnant…women are not being denied anything…the only ones being denied right is the human being they created after they consented to have sex…when they chose to murder thier own child….

  the way the law stands…abortion on demand is the legalized execution of helpless, living human beings…..

• 34. Danish Artist  |  July 11th, 2008 at 6:53 am

  Wow, schwutz,

  Thank you for the irrelevant rambling that had nothing to do with what I posted.

  The rambling mind is a terrible thing. Why don’t you recover from your drug induced mental coma and try again.