VP Debate – Open Thread

This ought to be a fun night. Ryan is a smart, young politician who represents the future of conservatism. Biden is old, not so bright politician who represents the past of failed liberal policies. The Democrats must be cringing tonight knowing that their hopes of a rebound in the polls rests on Biden’s shoulders.

78 thoughts on “VP Debate – Open Thread

  1. Retired Spook October 11, 2012 / 8:03 pm

    I hope Ryan has the opportunity tonight to school Biden on the “First Rule of Holes”. Barry and the boyz dug themselves a cavern on Benghazi and they’re still digging.

    • Cluster October 11, 2012 / 8:28 pm

      I thought DWS was the best gift to conservatism, but press babe Stephanie Cutter is making DWS look sensible.

      • M. Noonan October 12, 2012 / 6:10 pm

        Latest rumor is that DWS is bidding to replace Pelosi as Minority Leader next year – we can only hope!

  2. dbschmidt October 11, 2012 / 8:59 pm

    Young Blood v. Old Blood–Let us see who wins. Nevertheless, I do not expect Biden to be Joe “gaffe a minute” Biden in this case because he is disciplined in this format as is Ryan. Should be a knockdown drag out no matter. Let’s get ready to Rumble…

    BTW, being “old blood” but not a Biden fan–I will remind folks that I also believe “Old age and treachery can overcome youth and skills” as my badly paraphrased stolen adage goes. In this case–I am voting for clear talk and an abundance of facts will give the victory to the youthful VP candidate.

    • dbschmidt October 11, 2012 / 9:16 pm

      Guess Biden’s only answer so far is saying everything is BS but that doesn’t square with known facts. Could be a long night.

    • dbschmidt October 11, 2012 / 9:18 pm

      “Building a weapon?” Biden says they [Iran] is not building a weapon; however, I have seen two of the major parts and I am not privy as I once was.

    • dbschmidt October 11, 2012 / 9:34 pm

      Moderator appears to be cutting Ryan the short shaft.

      • dbschmidt October 11, 2012 / 10:05 pm

        BTW, by “moderator” I had no intent of our blog’s “Shadow.” Please forgive me but I will clarify as required internal to postings.

  3. Cluster October 11, 2012 / 9:27 pm

    I think Biden is really hurting himself with his off camera smirks, laughs and sighs.

    • Raging Bull October 11, 2012 / 9:30 pm

      that’s just joe being joe, cluster….

      • Cluster October 11, 2012 / 9:37 pm

        Biden is an ignorant dick. To think that this man is a heart beat away from the Presidency is enough to vote for anyone else but Obama.

      • dbschmidt October 11, 2012 / 9:40 pm

        Worse than that is we are two heart beats away from Pelosi. she has a compeditor this year but at what chance in SanFran.

    • Retired Spook October 11, 2012 / 10:47 pm

      I think Biden is really hurting himself with his off camera smirks, laughs and sighs.

      The problem for Biden was, they weren’t “off camera”. Between his facial expressions and constant interrupting, he just came across as rude.

  4. Raging Bull October 11, 2012 / 9:35 pm

    biden voted for the iraq war, btw

    • Mark Noonan October 11, 2012 / 10:37 pm

      He also voted to overturn Roe v Wade…

  5. Cluster October 11, 2012 / 9:42 pm

    Some moronic liberal just chimed in and thinks that Biden is winning. Liberal live in their own weird bubble. Ryan has punked Biden on every point.

    • dbschmidt October 11, 2012 / 9:47 pm

      Not to reply to a “circling the drain” troll but that is complete BS. Some polling companies have conceded several “swing states” and more are added daily.

      Even though I like mushrooms at dinnertime–I think you have been left in the dark and overfed BS lately to be of any use.

  6. Cluster October 11, 2012 / 9:43 pm

    Biden is desperately interrupting the much smarter man.

  7. Cluster October 11, 2012 / 9:46 pm

    Biden is simply an old man with old ideas, old tactics, trying to protect a failure for a President. Every American sees that clearly. Lying about Libya, lying about their record, and taking choices away from Americans in terms of Medicare and SS.

    Romney will win this election within a few hours after polls open on election night.

    • dbschmidt October 11, 2012 / 10:01 pm

      Pick your own polls–mine is Nov 6th. The undercurrent is becoming a tide as the pollsters drop states from the battleground polling to owned by Romney. Kinda like you being punked.

      • GMB October 12, 2012 / 12:48 am

        This is no fun when you can’t read the whole conversation.

        Free the trolls!!!! Free the trolls!!!! Free the trolls!!!!

        I am GMB and I approve this message.


      • Amazona October 12, 2012 / 9:35 am

        Read some comments on other blogs this morning and found strong negatives regarding Joe. One of my favorites was:


        Eric Ericson referred to Biden’s style as “braying”, which I thought appropriate.

        I would love to see an ad showing Biden repeating, smugly, twice, that he always means what he says (and in one case claiming he also says what he means) followed by a montage of his goofball comments and some of his lies from last night.

      • Amazona October 12, 2012 / 10:20 am

        One theme that I saw strongly in the Romney/Obama debate and repeated often after this one is which person appeared more ‘presidential’.

        When I was watching Romney and Obama, that word kept running through my mind, and later I heard it and read it, over and over again. Romney just seemed more presidential than Obama.

        And last night I had the same reaction, only to find it echoed this morning in the media. Even David Gergen agreed: “On style I think that Paul Ryan won the debate. The Biden dismissive laughs, the interruptions, the sort of shouting, I think that Ryan was calmer and frankly more presidential.”

        I expected Biden to be a buffoon, but a different kind of buffoon, a more bumbling incoherent buffoon. What I saw was a blustering, bullying, braying (with thanks to E.E. for that word) buffoon. I kept thinking “Is THIS the guy I want representing my country? He’s rude and crude and more than a little bit strange.”

        And the flickering back and forth among personalities was more than a little off-putting. There was the rude out-loud laughing, the nervous grin, the braying effort to substitute noise for content, the efforts to intimidate, the sly insertion of lies, and then the really REALLY creepy segue into thoughtful meditative religious contemplation———-yecch.

      • Amazona October 12, 2012 / 11:43 am

        That is a great ad—it really showcases Biden’s antics and Ryan’s seriousness.

      • dbschmidt October 12, 2012 / 12:11 pm

        I hear that advertisement has been produced and will see airtime shortly.

      • Amazona October 12, 2012 / 12:54 pm

        db, which one? The one linked by the Count, or one with him saying he always means what he says and says what he means?

        I hope Barry is getting edgy, wondering what will be pulled out of the next debate to be used against HIM.

      • neocon1 October 12, 2012 / 1:18 pm

        Didnt watch it, didnt miss anything but a kicked in TV.
        But I love the smell of smoke from a crashed and burned regime when the fire trucks are 10 miles away and racing in the other direction. 🙂

      • neocon1 October 12, 2012 / 4:20 pm

        RE BiteMe

        Chris Wallace: I’ve never seen a candidate as disrespectful as Biden…
        Noonan: ‘The old man pushed, and the kid pushed back’…
        AP: ‘Laugh, chuckle, grimace, grin, smirk, goofy face’…
        WH blames Ryan for Biden smiles…

        Id love to be a fly on the wall in the McCrystal home now

      • neocon1 October 12, 2012 / 4:22 pm

        Woo Hoo


      • neocon1 October 12, 2012 / 4:25 pm

        old STAND UP SO WE CAN SEE YA…..joe……demented, mean, nasty, ugly LIAR!!

        Biden claims he voted AGAINST two wars he voted FOR…

        Contradicts State Department on Benghazi security…

        Blames intelligence community for changing story about attack…

        Blames baldness for his bad hair plugs……

      • neocon1 October 12, 2012 / 4:56 pm

        Mike Huckabee: Biden Was Like ‘An Obnoxious Drunk’ (AND?)
        “It was just boorish behavior.” (AND?)

        Catholic Bishops Issue Scathing Release Calling Biden‘s Contraception Claim ’Not a Fact’ (A LIE)
        “…none has to be a vehicle to get contraception in any insurance policy they provide.”

      • neocon1 October 12, 2012 / 5:20 pm

        Bwaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

        The latest quarrel began when Clinton heard that Obama was behaving so cocky about his first debate against Mitt Romney that he wasn’t taking his debate prep seriously. Out of concern, Clinton had an aide call the White House and say that the former president would be more than happy to give the current president some pointers and advice on how to get the best of Romney.

        Clinton waited several days for a response, but none was forthcoming. According to my sources, the former president was dumbfounded that Obama had ignored his offer, and his hurt feelings quickly boiled over into anger.

        “Bill thought that he and Obama were on friendly terms after the convention,” one source told me. “He couldn’t believe that the White House didn’t even extend him the courtesy of a return phone call. He concluded that Obama’s arrogance knows no bounds.”

        Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/12/the-clinton-obama-rift/#ixzz297csdjBW

      • neocon1 October 12, 2012 / 5:22 pm

        three mile island had nothing like this

        Four years ago, after Obama’s South Carolina primary victory over Hillary Clinton, Bill called Obama’s campaign “a fairy tale.” Not to be outdone, Obama referred to the Clinton presidency as a “psychodrama.”

        Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/12/the-clinton-obama-rift/#ixzz297dU516v

      • neocon1 October 14, 2012 / 10:12 am

        As a student at Harvard Law School, then-bachelor Barack Obama’s practice of wearing a gold band on his wedding-ring finger puzzled his colleagues.

        Now, newly published photographs of Obama from the 1980s show that the ring Obama wore on his wedding-ring finger as an unmarried student is the same ring Michelle Robinson put on his finger at the couple’s wedding ceremony in 1992.

        Moreover, according to Arabic-language and Islamic experts, the ring Obama has been wearing for more than 30 years is adorned with the first part of the Islamic declaration of faith, the Shahada: “There is no god except Allah.” (babba)

      • dbschmidt October 12, 2012 / 8:21 pm

        The one the Count linked. Quick turnaround.

  8. Raging Bull October 11, 2012 / 9:47 pm

    that’s the game plan…interrupt, get diarrhea of the mouth, and try to score cheap emotional points.

  9. Cluster October 11, 2012 / 9:51 pm

    Ryan is a reasoned, mature, thinking adult. The guy sitting next to him is an over emotional moron.

  10. Cluster October 11, 2012 / 9:53 pm

    I didn’t think it was possible to have a worse debate performance than what Obama did last week, but Biden is up staging him.

  11. dbschmidt October 11, 2012 / 9:54 pm

    Joe should have a new meme — Joe Blowhard. Just talk over your opponent.

  12. dbschmidt October 11, 2012 / 9:57 pm

    Sad about the “Moderator” — Never again let such a hack run the debates.

    • Rick October 11, 2012 / 10:02 pm


  13. Cluster October 11, 2012 / 10:09 pm

    Biden never really has operated with a full deck, but tonight he is one full suit short from a full house.

    Remember when Obama said Iran wasn’t much of a threat because it was a “tiny country”?

  14. dbschmidt October 11, 2012 / 10:13 pm

    Oh’ No — Joe just claimed that there are no American boots on the ground in Syria. I think the squirrels have stolen the last of his nuts that managed to make his ‘brain housing unit’ appear to function. Maybe he can borrow a pair from Hillary, as she has an extra set left over from Bill.

  15. casper October 11, 2012 / 10:17 pm

    Romney kicked Obama’s butt at the last debate. Biden is doing the same to Ryan tonight.

    • dbschmidt October 11, 2012 / 10:24 pm

      Not waiting for the AP Fact checkers? Biden lied, and I use the word lied, from the get-go. Good luck.

    • Grant October 11, 2012 / 10:33 pm

      casper….what debate are you watching. Must be one in an alternative Universe, oh thats right you live in a oBumer Universe

    • Mark Noonan October 11, 2012 / 10:36 pm

      Nothing like a rude blowhard to get a liberal all excited…

    • Amazona October 12, 2012 / 1:10 pm

      But we have to remember—Biden’s juvenile sniggering is exactly how casper acts here. I can easily see why he is relating so much to Biden’s antics.

  16. Cluster October 11, 2012 / 10:24 pm

    I think people like Dave Bowman and Joe Biden are excellent examples of what’s wrong with the Democratic Party and why the Democrats will lose in November. If the Democrats ever hope to be relevant again, they will have to shed themselves of unbalanced people like those two.

  17. Mark Noonan October 11, 2012 / 10:35 pm

    Biden: rude. Ryan: competent. Obama-bots will rejoice and think they won. Everyone else will figure it was Ryan.

  18. tiredoflibbs October 11, 2012 / 10:40 pm

    Biden’s up there regurgitating the dumbed down talking points. It figures that drones like cappy think he is winning.

    I like the way he said “using the Chinese Credit Card to pay for two wars”. Hmmmm…. let’s see.

    Bush EIGHT years and $4 trillion in new debt.
    ObAMATEUR/Binden FOUR yeas and $5 trillion in new debt. All on the “Chinese Credit Card”.

    I guess Joe is using the obAMATEUR counting method. Count what you want and ignore what you don’t like. Just more lies from the left – and cappy thinks Biden is winning? Figures.

    Biden is attacking making up for the the failure of obAMATEUR to do so against Romney. Biden is acting very unprofessional (childish is more like it) up there with his laughs, sighs and outbursts.

  19. Amazona October 11, 2012 / 10:40 pm

    I thought Biden came across stronger than I expected him to, but only by being rude and belligerent, and the swarminess of the sighing, grinning, smirking, and constant use of the words “my friend” painted him as a real ass.

    I was surprised at how emphatic he was and think it may have swayed some people, but I caught him in some real whoppers, which Ryan let him get away with, like slipping in the claim that Romney Supreme Court appointees would outlaw abortion.

    I did think it was funny that Biden repeated that he always means what he says. I wonder if that includes his comment that the middle class has been buried for the last four years.

    But I was very put off by the smirking, grinning, and talking over Ryan, and the whine at the end about “he gets 40 seconds and I get 15” was classic Biden.

    • Mark Noonan October 11, 2012 / 10:45 pm

      The Mrs also found Biden’s mannerisms annoying – from what I was reading on the various twitter feeds set up to monitor the debate, a lot of independent voters also didn’t like it. In the end, Biden needed to re-direct the narrative away from Obama’s disaster while Ryan just needed to show himself as an acceptable Vice President. I don’t think Biden nearly accomplished his task while Ryan clearly accomplished his.

    • Cluster October 11, 2012 / 10:48 pm

      I think a lot of people were turned off by Biden’s demeanor, I think it really hurt him. And Ryan was in command of the statistical facts when talking about entitlements, while Joe was simply lost and could only lean on emotional talking points.

    • dbschmidt October 11, 2012 / 10:52 pm

      I feel it was a two-part arrangement in order to keep Ryan from answering with one part being the moderator and the other was Ryan was being ‘too nice’ to tell her ‘Let me answer that acquisition first.’

      Might just be my perception but seen the same play out several times over the course of the ‘debate.’ All in all Ryan did better than Biden/Moderator.

  20. dbschmidt October 11, 2012 / 10:45 pm

    I have clearly stated that polls and my disbelief of polls are equal. I have worked with polls and polling companies long enough to see that any poll can be moved to reflect a personal belief. That said, I also know what the undercurrents of polling reflect–unlike you small person. I still have access to the actual figures, etc.

    Va is Romney, PA is questionable and Wi is leaning Romney but don’t take my word for it. I doubt it as much as I doubt the polls but-0h, I have heard there is an airline giving free one-way tickets to the country of your choice for anyone wanting to leave after the elections.

    Too bad all them HollyWierd folks didn’t follow their own beliefs years ago. (After Bush). Can I say “Bye-Bye James” or not after this election? Come on…for once have the conviction of your rhetoric~if not the balls.

  21. Retired Spook October 11, 2012 / 11:14 pm

    It’ll be interesting to see what the fact-checkers do with the debate answers. I remember the debate 4 years ago between Biden and Palin. The consensus was that Biden had won, but the next day the fact-checkers found that Biden had told something like 15 whoppers. I suspect they’ll find this latest effort was similar. Denying that the consulate in Benghazi had requested additional security was a biggie for starters. I also found it contradictory that Biden threw the intelligence community under the bus on Benghazi but then a few minutes later said they would absolutely know when Iran was close to having a nuclear weapon.

  22. Retired Spook October 12, 2012 / 12:02 am

    Ryan missed a great opportunity when Biden kept making the point that raising taxes on the wealthy would increase revenue by $500 billion over 10 years. Sounds like a lot until you realize that’s less than half of this year’s deficit, and that’s assuming you had 100% compliance. You could tax the top 1% at 100% and it would not cover this year’s deficit, and you could confiscate all the wealth (assets, not income) from the top 1% and it would run the federal government (just federal, not municipal, county or state) at the current (freeze federal expenditures at the present level) level for a little over 6 years, and then we’d be Argentina. The case for achieving the broadest possible tax base kind of makes itself, and the only way that can be achieved is by accelerated economic growth.

  23. Mark Noonan October 12, 2012 / 12:18 am

    Snap polls are indicating that Ryan won – so, all in all, the long term (meaning, until Sunday) effect of this debate will be a negative for Obama/Biden…though it might make liberals feel good until tomorrow afternoon.

  24. GMB October 12, 2012 / 12:45 am

    Paul Ryan could have done better. Why did he allow ole slow joe to interrupt him so many times before calling him on it?

    Ryan clearly won though. He was in better command of his facts and acted more like a Vice President should.

    Paul Ryan did what he had to do which was to hold the fort. In my opinion he did that very well.

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