Obama’s Support for the Culture of Death
June 15th, 2008 at 09:23am Mark Noonan
A Wall Street Journal editorial via Catholics in the Public Square lays it out:
Miss Jessen is an exquisite example of what antiabortion advocates call a “survivor.” Well into her third trimester of pregnancy, Gianna’s biological mother was injected with a saline solution intended to induce a chemical abortion at a Los Angeles County abortion center. Eighteen hours later, and precious minutes before the abortionist’s arrival, Gianna emerged. Premature and with severe injuries that resulted in cerebral palsy. But alive.
Had the abortionist been present at her birth, Gianna would have been killed, perhaps by suffocation. As it was, a startled nurse called an ambulance, and Gianna was rushed to a nearby hospital, where, weighing just two pounds, she was placed in an incubator, then, months later, in foster care.
Gianna survived then, and thrives now, because, as she told me recently with a laugh, “I guess I don’t die easy.” Which is what the abortionist might have thought as he signed his victim’s birth certificate. Gianna’s medical records state that she was “born during saline abortion.”
As an Illinois state senator, Barack Obama twice opposed legislation to define as “persons” babies who survive late-term abortions. Babies like Gianna. Mr. Obama said in a speech on the Illinois Senate floor that he could not accept that babies wholly emerged from their mother’s wombs are “persons,” and thus deserving of equal protection under the Constitution’s 14th Amendment.
A federal version on the same legislation passed the Senate unanimously and with the support of all but 15 members of the House. Gianna was present when President Bush signed the Born Alive Infants Protection Act in 2002.
When I asked Gianna to reflect on Mr. Obama’s candidacy, she paused, then said, “I really hope the American people will have their eyes wide open and choose to be discerning. . . . He is extreme, extreme, extreme.”
“Extreme” may not be the impression the hundreds of thousands of Americans who have bought Mr. Obama’s autobiography have been left with. In “The Audacity of Hope,” Mr. Obama’s presidential manifesto, he calls abortion “undeniably difficult,” “a very difficult issue,” “never a good thing” and “a wrenching moral issue.”
He laments his party’s “litmus test” for “orthodoxy” on abortion and other issues, and even admits, “I do not presume to know the answer to that question.” That question being the moral status of the fetus, who he nonetheless concedes has “moral weight.”
Those statements are seriously made but, alas, cannot be taken at all seriously. Mr. Obama has compiled a 100% lifetime “pro-choice” voting record, including votes against any and all restrictions on late-term abortions and parental involvement in teenagers’ abortions.
OBama is, indeed, extreme on the issue of abortion - but the real problem is that this extremism is entirely mainstream in the Democratic party. The article goes on to note that Obama has pledged to sign the so-called “Freedom of Choice Act“, a monstrous bit of pro-death legislation which would undo no only the federal ban on late-term abortions, but also the various common-sense regulations placed on abortion at the State level over the years. This is pro-abortion fanaticism in action, and Obama is hip deep in it.
I cannot take at face value anyone’s claims to care about people if they can’t care about the most helpless amongst us - there is a cold hearted indifference to suffering in the actions of those who work to protect abortion; from those who just use honey-coated words to cover up what it really is, to those who actually seek to ensure that more abortions are peformed. Obama talks a great game about helping the helpless, but when the real helpless have arrived in front of him, he’s slammed the door in their faces, more interested in garnering pro-abortion donations and pro-abortion political support for his blinding ambition to be President of the United States. Abortion is wicked; evil to the core - only the rankest sort of ignorance and cowardice can excuse any support for it; there is just never, ever a valid reason for seeking the termination of an unborn human life.
While many issues will be discussed during this campaign and while abortion won’t register with more than 5% or so as the most vital issue of the election, the central issue or our time has been, is and will be the abortion issue. As long as we permit this barbaric and inhuman practice - a veritible human sacrifice on the altar of the secular god “Selfishness” - just that long will we remain a nation divided against itself, and unsure of its place in the world. Just as we were riven by the stresses of trying to reconcile chattel slavery with our sublime Declaration of Independence so, too, are we riven by the attempts to reconcile cold blooded murder with the right to life our Founders fought and died for. This terrible poison, abortion, must end - and we will not end it by electing as President a man who will talk a lot about how sad abortion is, but who will in practical terms do all he can to advance the cause of abortion in the United States.
In the end, if one has any sense of the sanctity of human life - all life, even that unborn - then John McCain is the only possible candidate for 2008. A man of unscotchable pro-life record and a clear view of the value of life (probably built up by his inhuman treatment at the hands of the North Vietnamese), who is pledged to appoint judges who understand that the US Constitution isn’t a plaything for the latest liberal fads.
Entry Filed under: Campaign 2008, Democrats, Justice System, Life Issues, Popular Culture, Republicans, Social Issues, Supreme Court
107 Comments
1. neocon | June 15th, 2008 at 9:51 am
“Mr. Obama said in a speech on the Illinois Senate floor that he could not accept that babies wholly emerged from their mother’s wombs are “persons,” and thus deserving of equal protection under the Constitution’s 14th Amendment.”
But Obama gleefully extends that right to those who support oppression of women and children. Ironic isn’t it?
“This is an important step toward reestablishing our credibility as a nation committed to the rule of law, and rejecting a false choice between fighting terrorism and respecting habeas corpus.” - Barack Obama
2. Magnum Serpentine | June 15th, 2008 at 9:52 am
Don’t forget that anyone who believes in the Death penalty also supports the culture of death.
3. neocon | June 15th, 2008 at 10:02 am
Since 1976, 1081 prisoners have been executed. (57% of them white)
Since 1973, the total number of abortions equal…….wait for it…..
OVER 48 MILLION.
What were you saying again Mags?
4. FmrMarine | June 15th, 2008 at 11:19 am
mags;
>>>Don’t forget that anyone who believes in the Death penalty also supports the culture of death.<<<
NOT TRUE!
One is SELF defense, by society. We remove the worst of the worst so they may never commit their heinous crimes again, and do not burden society for housing them for decades.
The other (abortion) is MURDER plain and simple.
Earbama for political expediency and lack of Christian understanding chooses death of innocent US citizens.
5. ZootAllure | June 15th, 2008 at 11:20 am
The same shallow self-absorbed mental deficient libs that cry their crocodile tears for the soldiers(who volunteered) and people of Iraq have no problem killing defenseless babies by the millions.
Of course these are the same people rail against the patriot act cause …gasp… someone might look at their email yet have no problem with gun control so the only one with guns is the same Gov they dont want looking at the email…DUHHH.
It would be funny if it wasnt so pathetic.. The very essence of being a lib must be total.cognitive dissonance. But hey at least they feeeeel good about themselves.
6. extramedium | June 15th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Mark,
There’s not much to debate in your post - McCain is the pro-life guy, Obama is the pro-choice guy and you believe abortion must end.
One thing I’ve come to wonder, however, is how far you would take your fight against abortion. I’ve heard many pro-lifers say abortion equates to mass murder. If abortion was outlawed in the US, do you reckon that we should take action against other countries that allow abortion, or should we just be content to have licked it at home?
I think you will agree that, much like illegal drug use, outlawing abortion wont stop it. People will get abortions if they must, especially wealthier folks who will simply get a “D&C” from a trusted personal doctor or even take a short trip across the border to get one if that’s not possible. Don’t you think you’ll want our government to force other countries to stop abortion too, especially those nearby?
Also, in practical terms, do you imagine that there would be a lot of domestic enforcement activity if abortion were outlawed, or would it be more like sodomy laws - on the books, but rarely enforced?
I’m really just curious as to how this would all play out in practical terms - i.e. what would life be like once the pro-lifers had secured their victory.
7. neocon | June 15th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
“If abortion was outlawed in the US, do you reckon that we should take action against other countries that allow abortion,…” - extra
STRAWMAN ALERT!!!
“I’m really just curious as to how this would all play out in practical terms - i.e. what would life be like once the pro-lifers had secured their victory.” - extra
Probably a lot like it is today, except with a lot less women suffering emotional turmoil and depression that follow abortions as many studies suggest. There may also be more of a reluctance to be promiscuous amongst many young women which would lead to less STD’s and a healthier self image.
Would you be opposed to those two consequences?
8. neocon | June 15th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
The following is a MUST read:
And it seems that today modern progressive ideas can often bring out the worst in people.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1026442/Dont-listen-liberals–Right-wingers-really-nicer-people-latest-research-shows.html#
9. The Silver Vixen | June 15th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
At the time I write this I’m 23 weeks pregnant. Being so, I believe, gives me a lot more of a right to comment on the abortion/anti abortion issue, because it does directly affect me, as opposed to all these men who love to give an opinion but don’t have their bodies at risk.
In december, I miscarried at 14 weeks, and I was upset about it - but what I carried at that point wasn’t a child. It wasn’t human. There’s one cutoff point in my mind where a developing fetus becomes a human being, and it’s this:
When a developing fetus reaches that point where it can survive on its own without medical intervention should it be born, where I as a mother could still bring it up if I bore it without having modern medicine keep it alive - at that point it’s a human, at that point it’s a child. Before then, it’s not, and should the mother decide for whatever reason not to carry it then that’s her decision - it’s nobody elses business. Not Obama’s, not McCain’s, not fundies and not liberals. It’s the mothers decision, the mothers responsibility and nobody else should try to pressure her either way.
Unless you’ve miscarried, you cannot know the emotions that a woman feels when that link to a developing life fades to deafening silence. You certainly can’t know what a woman must go through emotionally and mentally if she feels it necessary to abort the child.
So all you men just shut the hell up about shoving your religious or fundamental beliefs down our throats. Your trying to score political points off our discomfort is not welcome.
10. SEW | June 15th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
The libs only think it is death if one dies serving their country! After volunteering to serve and knowing well the risks involved. The 50,000,000 abortions in this country are not deaths but are the rights of a woman! Disregard the rights of the abortee, the father, the grandparents, just the rights of the woman.
Progress you can believe in.
11. SEW | June 15th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Oh, I left out the libs also consider it death when the death penalty is carried out. Sorry for leaving you out Magnum.
Progress you can believe in. Obama08
12. neocon | June 15th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
“….and should the mother decide for whatever reason not to carry it then that’s her decision - it’s nobody elses business.” - Silver
Hard to believe you got pregnant with such an unattractive attitude. But thank you for revealing a liberals disdain for fatherhood…..on Fathers Day.
I feel sorry for your child
13. Mark Noonan | June 15th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Silver Vixen,
Ok, but as I’m a veteran of the military that means my opinion on the war matters more than yours, so please be sure you shut the heck up about that, ok?
See how stupid that aspect of your view is? Try not to be asinine, ok?
Now, as to the issue at hand - supposing, for the sake of argument, that your viability position were morally correct, then Obama is still of the reservation on the matter of life - because he favors laws which will keep it legal to abort even after the point of viability and even, indeed, if an abortion is botched and the child emerges alive.
What say you to Obama’s support for the pro-abortion fanatic position?
14. SEW | June 15th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
“Unless you’ve miscarried, you cannot know the emotions that a woman feels when that link to a developing life fades to deafening silence. ” Silver
“In december, I miscarried at 14 weeks” Silver
Silver, What happens to the “developing” life during an abortion? Deafening silence? What of the emotions of the abortee, the father, the grandparents? Disregard those!
15. Mark Noonan | June 15th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
extra,
Its true that we’ll never stop all abortions - there always will be substandard doctors who are willing to make a buck off the butchery of unborn children, but there is also no way we’ll stop all murders from happening, but I don’t see any efforts to legalise murder and then try to make it “safe, legal and rare”. Because the ideal cannot be reached it doesn’t mean you discard the ideal.
How far will I go? Right up to the point where an action of mine would be a sin - at that point, I’d stop and just keep working with non-sinful means to end this terrible crime. Just as you shouldn’t use an injustice like affirmative action to fix an injustice like racism, so we can’t use the sin of murder to fight the sin of murder. The means used must always be in accordance with the just, merciful and loving end desired.
By making abortion illegal we’ll go from millions of murders to hundreds of murders, so it is a great and glorious thing to do, banning abortion - and when we finally ban this barbarism (and we will, in God’s good time as the call to peoples’ conscience becomes too strong to resist), no amount of “see, there’s an abortion that happened” will change the fact that the lives of millions have been saved. Over at St. Elizabeth’s here in Las Vegas they have a memorial stone dedicated to those children killed in the Roe holocaust…the dates are “1973 - 20–”. It will come; justice will be done, and our descendents will look back in shocked amazement that some of us, once upon a time, actually thought it could in any way, shape or form be ok to kill an unborn child.
16. The Silver Vixen | June 15th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
@neocon - the father should have some say, but the casting vote is the mothers. That doesn’t change that OTHER people shouldn’t get involved.
@Mark - I simply don’t believe you’ve been involved in a wartime service scenario. There’s a BIG difference in being a reservist or being in the services and not being sent for whatever reason to a warzone. Given your attitude in terms of writing style about the war, unless you actually come out and say WHICH war you fought in, I don’t believe that a lack of combat experience gives you any better right than I have to comment about it, or any more knowledge than I have on the topic.
@SEW - life that hasn’t developed sentience cannot be aware of what happens to it. Just because it is biologically “alive” in terms of developing organs functioning doesn’t give it sentience or mean its human. I heard this fetusus heart beat at 12 weeks via a doppler purchased from ebay. You could say from a biological point of view it was “alive” then. but it wasn’t sentient. It wouldn’t know what happened to it if it was aborted. With regards to the father, I refer you to my answer to neocon above. With regards to the grandparents, what I originally said stands.
17. The Silver Vixen | June 15th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
@Mark since your point does require addressing directly:
I say the same to him as to anyone else. Your opinion can apply to your family if they’ll listen, but I don’t regard it as binding to me. In other words, if Obama were to try and lecture me on his beliefs or position on my unborn, my reaction would be exactly the same to him as it is to anyone else: Shut the hell up.
18. Mark Noonan | June 15th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Silver,
Your eyes always been that brown?
I’ve been in the military - four years in the United States Navy. Unless you have been in the military, by your own views, you can have ZERO opinion about the military, and as military knowledge is required, by your own views, in order to have a valid opinion on the war, your lack of military experience excludes you from commenting. My father is a combat vet, so his views carry more weight than mine, in your own views, but mine carry more than yours…
19. Mark Noonan | June 15th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Silver,
Yeah, right - you’d never tell Obama to shut up…but, you are on the right course…slowly but surely, you will swing ’round to the pro-life opinion. Most people other than the completely heartless do.
20. 42 | June 15th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
the culture of government in our bedrooms is at it again, not only are the hypocrisies obvious, Fmr is all for the government waiting a few years before it murders people, but the culture of government in our bedrooms’ argument hinges on their steadfast belief that life begins at conception….If that is the case then you must insist on immediate pre-natal care immediately ofter conception to ensure the health and wellbeing of that innocent, helpless life…
so it’s pretty clear what Noonan and the rest of the cons want…a government sanctioned Dr. in every married couples bedroom to ensure that every child, be it two cells or more, gets the every chance at a long healthy life.
21. neocon | June 15th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
So Silver,
If the father wanted you to deliver the child, would you? Or how about the doctor, does his opinion matter? Or are women all knowing?
Also, I did find your parsing of Marks service humurous. Evidently, it’s now a matter of where and when they served, which may or may not give them the authority to opine. Is there a handbook of the constantly shifting liberal talking points?
And your response to SEW was equally amusing. You must take comfort in being the authority on all things “sentient”. As I enjoy fathers day today with my son, I can be grateful that his “sentience” was not determined or arbitrated by liberals.
22. neocon | June 15th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
“Shut the hell up.” - Silver
Aren’t liberal American women attractive? They’re so caring.
23. Jeremiah | June 15th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Abortion is so sad, a crime that America will have to answer for.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=O2l1-kvKomg
Aren’t they precious?
So many don’t get to open their little eyes and see the world and beautiful sunshine, the clouds, the rain, and all of God’s Creation.
:(
24. neocon | June 15th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
42,
Wrong again. But you must be used to that.
Try personal responsibility. Are you familiar with that concept? Do you suppose that people could be expected to make the morally right decision without government involvement? Or is the government the be-all end-all in your fragile little world?
And are you assuming that the only result of sex is pregnancy? Do you suppose there are other choices the participants could choose?
25. 42 | June 15th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
neocon,
“Do you suppose that people could be expected to make the morally right decision without government involvement? ”
so then you’re against the government outlawing abortion and leaving moral decisions up to it’s citizens..well you changed your position pretty quickly
26. SEW | June 15th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Silver, so you miscarried a “sentience”? What could be emotional about miscarrying a “sentience”? Why should that be sad to you at all? I’m not emotional when my “sentience” sperm die every day.
27. neocon | June 15th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
As evidenced by the 48 million + abortions since 1976, the evidence of these people making the morally right decision is not evident. Laws are designed to protect the innocent. You do care for the innocent, right?
And conversely then I suppose you would then support lifting the ban on the death penalty, right? And leave that moral decision to the people.
Have a nice day
peace, neocon
28. 42 | June 15th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
SEW, until you can write in proper English, I refer to post 14 which is grammatically atrocious, I would recommend you stick to the actual argument and leave the typos alone.
29. neocon | June 15th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
“I’m not emotional when my “sentience” sperm die every day.” - SEW
Sometime three times a day.
30. neocon | June 15th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
42,
Your grammatical critique of SEWs post is evident you are void of any further debate on this issue. I, however, never grow tired of liberals perceived superiority.
They are legends in their own minds
31. 42 | June 15th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
neocon, please take a position and stick to it…first you say government should let people make their own choice, then only moments later you say we need laws to protect everyone when those choices aren’t to you liking.
which is it?
32. neocon | June 15th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
42,
Once again you choose debate a non-sequitur argument and a false premise. Your so predicatable and tedious.
Had you ever thought that free people are always left to their own accord to make the morally right decision? But when that decision affects the lives of others, laws are required to supercede?
Has that thought ever rattled around that empty head of yours?
33. SEW | June 15th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
“SEW, until you can write in proper English, I refer to post 14 which is grammatically atrocious, I would recommend you stick to the actual argument and leave the typos alone.” 42
Please be more specific, moron. Please point out one grammatical atrocity or typo in #14.
34. The Silver Vixen | June 15th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
@Mark: So you’ve been in the Navy, and that qualifies you to know all about the army. You know as much about the army’s activities and way of doing things as I do. Your logic is flawed. If you can captain a ship, that doesn’t mean you can fly a fighter. If you can fly a fighter that doesn’t mean you can drive a tank. If you were in the Navy it doesn’t mean you know more about the army than I do.
There IS no “Pro-life” There is only “anti-abortionist”. If people were really pro life, they would offer to take care of a baby that someone didn’t want. Instead, they simply tell that person they shouldn’t be allowed to abort it. That’s not pro life, that’s anti-abortion.
When all you people who like to pretend you’re pro-life are prepared to put your money where your mouths are, and fund, from your own pocket, the bringing up of any child that would otherwise have been aborted before it became sentient, THEN you have a right to say something about the topic.
But you don’t. You simply insist on ramming your beliefs down someone elses throat.
35. SEW | June 15th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
42, I read your posts and found “gramatical atrocities” in your posts #20, 25 and 31. Waiting on what you might have found in #14.
36. 42 | June 15th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
But when that decision affects the lives of others, laws are required to supercede(sic)?
so then you agree with my original post (20)…again, that was easy…although I’m sure you’ll change your position once again.
SEW, since you’re not a ‘moron’, re-read your post, then you tell me
37. The Silver Vixen | June 15th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
@SEW - I mourned the potential for what was lost. The fact that I had tried and on that occasion failed to have a child. This time the pregnancy looks viable and if my second trimester ultrasound results are anything to go by then it looks like I’ll carry to term on this occasion.
I haven’t ever considered having an abortion. When asked about having the medical tests done to see if there was a high chance of having a deformed or sick child - I declined. I leave that to God to decide.
But my argument is that as the mother it is my right and the right of me and my husband alone to make those decisions. It’s nobody elses concern.
38. neocon | June 15th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
“Your logic is flawed.” - Silver
Mark is using your logic Diane. LOL
“If people were really pro life, they would offer to take care of a baby that someone didn’t want.” - Silver
There are thousands of people waiting to adopt and take care of those babies.
“THEN you have a right to say something about the topic.” - Silver
One of my preferred charities is one that offers school money to underpriveledged children. Can I now comment Silver? I mean I know I only have as much free speech as liberals will allow. For they are the arbiteurs of that annoying right.
39. 42 | June 15th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
35. SEW | June 15th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
I never implied I wouldn’t make grammatical errors, but thanks for playing
40. Jeremiah | June 15th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
any child that would otherwise have been aborted before it became sentient, THEN you have a right to say something about the topic.
SV
That’s the problem with you pro-murder types.
Listen, “sentient” is not the word here. The matter is right and wrong here. Life has worth from the beginning.
The word we’re looking for here is ‘INTRINSIC’ we have INTRINSIC WORTH.
God chose to give us life because He loved us.
We impart this SAME worth to our children.
God was before us, now it’s up to us to meet him half way, and that’s why He gave us the ability to be able to share in what He has created by giving us the ability to help create the life that He Himself enabled.
Sentient has nothing to do with it, NOTHING AT ALL. It’s RIGHT AND WRONG.
ABORTION IS A PRODUCT OF SATAN.
41. SEW | June 15th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Moron, Still waiting. Do you realize sentences begin with capital letters and end with a period or other exclamation mark? So why not clue me in on 14 and re-read your 20, 25, 31 and now 36 for “grammatical atrocities.”
42. 42 | June 15th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
“If people were really pro life, they would offer to take care of a baby that someone didn’t want.” - Silver
There are thousands of people waiting to adopt and take care of those babies.
well there you go…problem solved, everyone who is ‘pro life’ will start adopting later today…Finally we have an answer
43. neocon | June 15th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
42,
I didn’t realize you made a point in #20.
“so it’s pretty clear what Noonan and the rest of the cons want…a government sanctioned Dr. in every married couples bedroom to ensure that every child, be it two cells or more, gets the every chance at a long healthy life.” - 42
I believe the above rant is what you’re referring to, which is not a point but a simplistic red herring from a liberal.
But assuming it is a point, the couple in your “analagous” bedroom have yet to do anything that would affect the life of another.
Want to play again?
Have a nice day
peace, neocon
44. The Silver Vixen | June 15th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
@neocon - You can comment as much as you like. Exercise your right to free speech. I never said anyone ‘couldn’t comment’ - I said they shouldn’t expect anyone to take any notice of their comments, nor should it come as a surprise that their evangelising is totally ignored by people for whom the whole issue directly affects.
Comment all you like. Tell me I should keep my baby or abort my baby. Talk till you’re blue in the face.
Just don’t expect me to change my life just because you’re talking at me.
45. SEW | June 15th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Moron, add 39 to your list. Make that 20, 25, 31, 36, and 39. Still waiting for the atrocities and typos in 14. Moron.
46. neocon | June 15th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
“..well there you go…problem solved..” - 42
First you imitate me in another thread, then you defer to my better judgement here.
You can worship me if you want and i will continue to teach you grasshopper.
Have a nice day
peace, neocon
47. 42 | June 15th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
“Moron, Still waiting. Do you realize sentences begin with capital letters and end with a period or other exclamation mark?”
fine, you do not capitalize the second word in a sentence, “Deafening silence?” is a fragment and ‘abortee’ isn’t even a word
48. 42 | June 15th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
But assuming it is a point, the couple in your “analagous” bedroom have yet to do anything that would affect the life of another.
-procreation doesn’t affect the life of another? What about the life that was just formed?
and per post 46, shouldn’t you be out starting your adoption and not playing on your computer, or we’re you just lying and you don’t actually care about those children?
49. neocon | June 15th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
Silver (Diane),
post #44………………….what?
I could not care less what you do. In fact, if I was the child, I would probably opt for the abortion.
You first claimed that only womens comments on abortion mattered because of their direct involvement. Then, when using YOUR LOGIC and applying it to the military, as Mark did, you
backpeddled faster than ET going home.
I guess my only response to you now is to use your own words in an earlier post:
“Shut the hell up.”
50. SEW | June 15th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Moron,
“You may have noticed that newspaper and magazine journalists often use a dependent clause as a separate sentence when it follows clearly from the preceding main clause, as in the last example above. This is a conventional journalistic practice, often used for emphasis. For academic writing and other more formal writing situations, however, you should avoid such journalistic fragment sentences.”
51. neocon | June 15th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
“procreation doesn’t affect the life of another? What about the life that was just formed?” - 42
OK, I will go slow this time for you. What action are those two fictional people presently doing that would negatively affect the life that was just formed?
Think about that.
And did I say that I was waiting to adopt? Another red herring, but thanks for playing.
Have a nice day
peace, neocon
52. SEW | June 15th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Moron,
“NounSingular
abortee
Plural
abortees
abortee (plural abortees)
That which was aborted.
53. 42 | June 15th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Sew, so what paper or magazine are you currently writing for?
“What action are those two fictional people presently doing that would negatively affect the life that was just formed?”
How about not getting proper medial care for that life…what if she smokes a cigarette, has a drink, rides a roller coaster the next day, gets an x-ray at the doctor, takes medication, jumps up and down etc, etc, etc…
“And did I say that I was waiting to adopt?”
YES, post 46 you agreed with me on post 42, saying I deferred to your better judgment, so we are both in agreement that everyone who is ‘pro life’ will start adopting today..
hope it works our well for you…keep us informed will you.
54. 42 | June 15th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
SEW, Wiktionary is not a dictionary, it’s an open source.
keep trying though big guy, I’m pulling for you on this one
55. neocon | June 15th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
“How about not getting proper medial care for that life…” - 42
Are any of those actions evident? And I will remind you of a program called WIC, which that eeeevil evangelical President Bush has funded with more money than any Democrat ever has.
And again, I do need to speak more slowly with you, I get that now.
I said that there were thousands of people waiting to adopt, which is true. I did not say that all of those people were pro-lifers, nor did I say that all pro-lifers should adopt.
See the difference? I really feel like you’re learning today.
peace, neocon
56. Jeremiah | June 15th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
post 46 you agreed
42
hahaha! Reread…dude
57. SEW | June 15th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
“keep [sic] trying though big guy, I’m pulling for you on this one [sic]
Add 53, 54, 47, 48 to your posts 20, 25, 31, 36, and 39 for your grammatical atrocities.
58. extramedium | June 15th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Mark,
I appreciate the clarification of your position. If I understand the ideal correctly, it is to equate abortion with murder at a national level, and that would take a change to the US Constitution akin to the Life Begins at Conception Act or the Fetal Personhood Act. It’s been tried a few times and ended up DOA (correct me if I’m wrong). Do you imagine that the climate will change on this and if so, what do you think will bring that change about?
59. neocon | June 15th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
“Do you imagine that the climate will change on this and if so, what do you think will bring that change about?” - extra
Probably the hydrocarbon emissions.
60. SEW | June 15th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
“This is a conventional journalistic practice, often used for emphasis. For academic writing and other more formal writing situations, however, you should avoid such journalistic fragment sentences.”
“Sew, so what paper or magazine are you currently writing for?” 42
None. Just an informal post on Blogs for Victory. Do you consider posts here academic writing or a formal situation?
61. 42 | June 15th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
“How about not getting proper medial care for that life…” - 42
“Are any of those actions evident?”
Yes, they are, which is why there must be immediate medical care moments after conception, which was my position in the first place…why do you only care about a life AFTER a pregnancy test confirms it?
I did not say that all of those people were pro-lifers, nor did I say that all pro-lifers should adopt…
so now you’re backtracking? Post 46, you said I agreed with you on my post stating “well there you go…problem solved, everyone who is ‘pro life’ will start adopting later today”
but now you don’t agree with that? any other posts here you’d like to backtrack on?
SEW:
I never implied I wouldn’t make grammatical errors, but thanks for playing
62. 42 | June 15th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Do you consider posts here academic writing or a formal situation?
Neither, which was my point in the first place when you went after silver for her post
63. neocon | June 15th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
42,
You are the KING OF STRAWMEN.
I was definitely amused by your assertion that in a fictional setting; non-fictional actions can be detected.
What’s you world like?
Have a nice day
peace, neocon
64. neocon | June 15th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Oh and if you care to re-read my clip and paste, I only agreed that the problem was resolved. I purposely omitted the “everyone who is pro-life” meme.
Hence the strawman title. Congrats on that.
Have a nice day
peace, neocon
65. 42 | June 15th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
“I was definitely amused by your assertion that in a fictional setting; non-fictional actions can be detected.”
That doesn’t even make sense…what you’re saying is that no woman EVER has had a cigarette after sex, or a drink, or took a prescription pill…
You are the KING OF STRAWMEN
troll coward, realized you in over your head huh?
typical con, realizes he has no clue on what he’s talking about then runs away screaming STRAWMEN when called out on it.
66. 42 | June 15th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
“I only agreed that the problem was resolved”
And the resolution was that any one ‘pro life’ would adopt today…here, let me re-post one more time
“problem solved, everyone who is ‘pro life’ will start adopting later today”
67. SEW | June 15th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
“Do you consider posts here academic writing or a formal situation?
Neither, which was my point in the first place when you went after silver for her post [sic] 42
Good. Then that makes a sentence fragment for emphasis grammatically correct in an informal situation.
Take your medication.
Take your medication.
68. 42 | June 15th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
that also makes silver’s typo grammatically correct in an informal situation, are you going to apologize for calling her out?
69. SEW | June 15th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
“that [sic] also makes silver’s typo grammatically correct in an informal situation, are you going to apologize for calling her out?”
I didn’t call her out for a typo. You did.
70. neocon | June 15th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
42,
Is that what they’re teaching you in KOS class this week? The word “terra” and non sequitur arguments?
Incidentally, the fictional bedroom setting you mused to assert the need for government involvement was then followed by your non-fictional (meaning actual) accounts of harmful activity in said bedroom.
Those two concepts are diametrically opposed and seldom used as logical by sane people.
just FYI.
Have a nice day
peace, neocon
Now claim victory once again (I love it when they do that. They’re so cute)
71. 42 | June 15th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
“the fictional bedroom setting you mused to assert the need for government involvement was then followed by your non-fictional (meaning actual) accounts of harmful activity in said bedroom.”
the ‘fictional bedroom setting’ is a married couple having sex…
Sex is only fictional??
what are you talking about????
72. 42 | June 15th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
(I love it when they do that. They’re so cute)
never mind, now I know why neocon thinks a married coupling having sex is fictional
73. neocon | June 15th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
42,
I don’t expect you to understand.
Now claim victory….please
Have a nice day
peace, neocon
74. Jeremiah | June 15th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Life means way more than grammatical typical errors…murder is a sin that can buy you your way to Hell.
75. jj | June 15th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
#9
“There’s one cutoff point in my mind where a developing fetus becomes a human being, and it’s this:
When a developing fetus reaches that point where it can survive on its own without medical intervention should it be born, where I as a mother could still bring it up if I bore it without having modern medicine keep it alive - at that point it’s a human, at that point it’s a child. Before then, it’s not … “
So according to your argument all those babies who are currently born who need medical assistance in the first few weeks to live are not human?
And then on the other end of the scale once a person gets to the point in life (through age or injury) that they need medical assistance to live, they are no longer human?
76. jj | June 15th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
“Mr. Obama said in a speech on the Illinois Senate floor that he could not accept that babies wholly emerged from their mother’s wombs are “persons,” and thus deserving of equal protection under the Constitution’s 14th Amendment.”
This makes perfect ‘logical’ sense if you are are pro abortion. Baby inside the womb can be aborted, therefore exact same baby outside the womb should also be aborted. Otherwise life and death is based on location.
It really must be frustrating to all these abortionists that babies keep surviving being born well inside the ‘acceptable’ abortion time period.
77. Carlton Pryor, Lead Economist, TED-OG | June 15th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
When you lot are willing to pay for the formula and nappies the butter, bangers and books so to speak of raising a child to adulthood on your groat directly then we can honestly discuss abortion. As long as it’s a misty eyed emotional and religious issue which is grounded in your abhorrance of sex as anything other than a hengemonic tool that expands your “base” the very discussion is pointless. Chrsitian or heathen faithful or faithless women who do not wish to give birth should not have a pregnancy forced upon them. it’s their body and their life AND their own immortal Soul. This isn’t some SAS or RM rescue operation these are the choices real people make in their lives. To most of you this is a culture war issue and clearly so because I have never read a single article about child poverty and how money needs to be raised in the US fiscal budget to provide more for AFDC or TANF or whatever alphabet soup it goes by these days.
Once it’s slapped on the bum doesn’t mean you guys can stroke the chalkboard with anothe Christian ditto head it means that your committment to life has just really begun.
78. jj | June 15th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
#77 - are you serious?
So something being wrong or right doesn’t depend on the issue but rather on how people respond?
BTW - there are plenty of people who do give generously to support children. (where else do you think World Vision gets its funding to look after thousands of children)
“it’s their body and their life AND their own immortal Soul. “ - you must be joking. So its the moms second heart beating in her womb? The moms second set of brainwaves and brain in the womb? The moms second set of DNA? And a fetus that magically becomes a human life the second it leave the womb?
79. Pain | June 15th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
We think this is the great “who cares” debate of the 21st Century and one day it will be solved at the state levelor by securing a progressive enough youthful bench that outlives the religious right.
Three justices to SCOTUS under the age of 50 during the next 16 years replacing conservatives would be enough to finally outlast the last gasps of draconian religion in the US. As the Boomers get older and the hard choices need to be made in the next 25 Terran years these sorts of issues will fall by the wayside and religion once again will be cast out of the Political Sphere for another 100 years.
80. Carlton Pryor, Lead Economist, TED-OG | June 15th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
78. jj | June 15th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
I most certainly am.
Can I make an inquiry? Would you see your tax rate increased to say 40% to have abortion be illegal in the United States?
I’m not arguing this as a life or death issue it is clearly that and I also feel that abortion is murder. That said, I understand that I don’t have the right to tell a woman what to do with her womb based upon my own superstitious traditions and more than she has the right to tell me how much tax I should pay on a packet of crisps.
THIS IS A CULTURE WAR CONTROL ISSUE. LOOK AT A MAP OF THE WORLD PAINTED TO SHOW WHERE ABORTION IS LEGAL AND YOU WILL WHAT RADICAL CHRISTENDOM AND RADICAL ISLAM HAVE IN COMMON.
I just think the issue has been hijacked emotionally by the Religious Right and neo conservatives for their own purposes just as Goldwater and Heath variety conservatives understood the need for such procedures to be legal.
81. SEW | June 15th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
“I don’t have the right to tell a woman what to do with her womb based upon my own superstitious traditions”
“I also feel that abortion is murder”
What about on your belief that abortion is murder or is that your superstitous tradition? After all, murder is a more serious issue than how much tax to pay on a packet of crisps.
82. Jeremiah | June 15th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
I just think the issue has been hijacked emotionally by the Religious Right–Carlton
No, Carlton, Life has been hijacked by some crazy, stupid judge named Harry Blackmun.
What gives anyone the right when the law says murder is wrong to go ahead and go against that very law?
83. Jeremiah | June 15th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
God determines when Life begins, and that is at conception.
Whenever God thought of making man, it was at that point that symbolizes conception.
84. Jeremiah | June 15th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
So when we act upon the point of making babies, at the very moment man and woman join it is at the moment you should realize when God was thinking. It’s an extraordinary gift from Him, He loved us so much that we could share in a small way the things He done.
Most people don’t realize how they are blessed.
85. Pain | June 15th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
84. Jeremiah | June 15th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
No Jeremiah that is your own opinion based upon the religion you either adopted as an adult based upon your own hardships and triumphs or were immersed in as a child. Nothing more nothing less. When Man starts to speak as if he KNOWS the Will of the Creator then that is the time to walk away from those Men.
86. Pain | June 15th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
16. The Silver Vixen | June 15th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
The question they cannot answer is, “What experience do they remember from inside the womb?” Now quickly they will say that their first memory is likely many months after birth but living ex utero is an establishment on most Known Worlds as viability thus living breathing sentience.
This is a Culture war issue nothing more. And if they are so serious about it We being a week from Our due date still feel that every female sentient in the Universe should have the right to choose weather to bear offspring or not.
87. Jeremiah | June 15th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
The question they cannot answer is, “What experience do they remember from inside the womb?”–Pain.
Does that somehow reduce the worth of the child’s life?
88. Jeremiah | June 15th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
I tell you what, Pain, you better be glad I’m not in charge of things, because if I was in charge and I caught you doing something wrong or to harm the life of another you’d be in a whole heap o’ trouble.
89. Pain | June 15th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
87. Jeremiah | June 15th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
No but it does reduce your argument a bit.
88. Jeremiah | June 15th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
In charge of what things? And why would We harm anyone? This is about people making their own decisions and you because of your religious beliefs projecting your own moral views on them. That is wrong. It is something that We abhor and to reduce the rights of Living breathing people who are already here will not be tolerated.
We want you to understand this before you make another hollow threat against Us. We mean you no harm. Not you not your beliefs not Our gracious host Mark Noonan who allows Us to come here to engage in very heated discussions under his rules which he makes clear to all.
We repeat, Jeremiah, this is not the Great struggle between good and evil. This is a political debate on a blog. You have choice to back down and We are being accomodating.
But hear Us clearly when We tell you that if you ever threaten the Collective again We will not rest until everything that creeps and crawls on Terra that you love is under Our control and you beg Us forgiveness.
Have a nice day!
90. bongoman | June 15th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
Ah, the voice of the authoritarian theocrat! Jeremiah’s obsession with control & punishment is pathological.
91. Jeremiah | June 15th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
No–Pain.
Then why are you advocating the murder of their little bodies???
We will not rest until everything that creeps and crawls on Terra that you love is under Our control
They day you raise a finger against God’s people, Pain, you best be asking for mercy, because their will be no barrier too great.
You remember, God destroyed all but a few at one time, and that’s just a little in comparison to what He could do.
92. Jeremiah | June 15th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
Jeremiah’s obsession with control & punishment is pathological.–bongoman.
LOL…..And bongoman doesn’t understand what it means to feel hurt and anguish over the millions of little children that man has ruthlessly and with malice killed for their own selfish wants and desires. His mind is like a lonely tree in the forest, he soaks in all the pleasures of life without a worry or care….he can’t hear, see or feel the anguish that that little body goes through when his or her little head is crushed in those steel forceps.
Bongoman, my friend, if there was anything that would make me lose my religion, it is those who are like you and pain and the rest of your evil bunch who turn a blind eye to these atrocious acts on innocent little babies, then crawl on your belly calling these innocents “non-sentient” essentially deeming them “worthless”….
If anything angers me more, it is that. I sit and tremble with almost uncontrollable anger when I read these posts, day in and day out, and it suffers me to know that people will be drawn into such demented thoughts as your’s and the leftists who post here.
I wish everyone who’s Christian felt the same way I do about Abortion, it would have been stopped long ago.
Now, I’ve to go and get calmed down. Pray for me.
93. Pain | June 15th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
91. Jeremiah | June 15th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
you are nothing more than a delusional bigot. Now calling people names because you disagree with them is one thing that We do not do. We say these things to describe you based upon your actions.
The Almighty DOES NOT LOVE YOU BECAUSE YOU HATE; THE ALMIGHTY PITIES YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE CORRUPTED IN YOUR MIND THE CONCEPTS IN THE BIBLE FOR YOUR OWN WARPED FANTASY OF BEING SUPERIOR. YOU HAVE NO PIPELINE OF DIRECT MESSAGES FROM PARADISE NO INVOCATIONS YOU BEEN WHISPERED BY METATRON YOU ONLY REASON IN YOUR MIND THAT SOMEHOW YOU ARE HOLY BECAUSE YOU HAVE PARCELED OUT SOME PASSAGES THAT YOU AGREE WITH AND OTHERS THAT YOU CAN TWIST TO FIT YOUR WORLDVIEW. YOU LIED ABOUT THE TOWER CREATING RACES WHEN THOSE PEOPLE WERE SEPARATED BY LANGUAGE!!! BY WORDS NOT UNDERSTOOD.
YOU ARE A RACIST BIGOT AND A LIAR AND A BLASPHEMER AND THE MESSIAH WOULD NOT HAVE YOU AT HIS TABLE HE WOULD SURELY CAST YOU OUT. STOP THREATENING US BECAUSE WE HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS FROM YOU. WE DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT YOU BELEIVE BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT YOUR BELIEF IS A HATEFILLED AND ROTTEN LIE!!!
IS THAT CLEAR?
Have a nice day!
94. bagni | June 15th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
markpro
nice job lighting it up
geez…..93 comments
me and my lucy in the sky shipmates
are still amazed and bewildered
by the mccain embrace you’re engaged in.
almost flipfloppy in nature?
but deep down we understand
what other cosmic choice you gots?
95. js | June 15th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
The more you post, the more I am totally convinced that you are a half wit at the keyboards Pain.
Grats, you prove it every day.
You cant even tell the difference between passion for life and hatred. Jeremiah is filled with that passion….and yes…he does hate evil…that means that he is actually doing whats right…..and you? you slander him for amusement like the dog you are…posting with a link to that hell website, right? pretty clear, right? the same site that promotes telling children that people are f*king stupid for watching FOX on TV….
ya…we got your number sucka….you really are a halfwit….
96. Mark Noonan | June 16th, 2008 at 1:09 am
bagni,
Between Obama and McCain there is a world of difference, and while McCain is not my cup of tea on some issues, on the most important issues he and I see eye to eye - especially on the issue of advancing the Culture of Life.
97. extramedium | June 16th, 2008 at 4:10 am
“No, Carlton, Life has been hijacked by some crazy, stupid judge named Harry Blackmun.
What gives anyone the right when the law says murder is wrong to go ahead and go against that very law?”
Jeremiah - the court in Roe v. Wade did not take up the issue of whether abortion was murder or not, because the constitution does not clearly define when life begins. That’s the whole idea behind movements like the Life at Conception Act. You should direct your fury and energy toward getting something that enacted, instead of dwelling on language you think should be in the constitution, but isn’t.
98. Dennis | June 16th, 2008 at 4:22 am
“he and I see eye to eye - especially on the issue of advancing the Culture of Life.”
“Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran…”
(heads up - there are actual innocent human beings living in Iran who would perish under the bombs of “culture o’ life” McCain…)
99. Pain | June 16th, 2008 at 6:07 am
95. js | June 15th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
So being a bigot like Jeremiah who would stand up and trumpet miscegenation laws like they had in the “good ole days” in the South is just okey dokey with you then? Nine years deep into the 21st Century on Terra you would be willing to stand up and shout here that a marriage between a Japanese woman and a black man or a Puerto Rican man and a Belgian woman are somehow Soul damning offenses. Why that is lunacy! That is not a passion for life that is a cry for help and a passion to be paid attention to—plain and simple. Who is he informing or even enlightening all he is doing is making racist points for people with IQs as low or lower than his?
We grow weary of such nonsense because it is such a vile and corrupting poison for those with eyes can clearly see and those with ears can clearly hear.
If you want more Progressive cartoons posters and works of art We would suggest OldAmericanCentury.org. This site was the source of that “mother daughter chat” cartoon and was not intended nor does it draw children [well you know We were going to say something snarky here but it just is not worth it.] to our site. It does however draw “fmr marine” who searches for the word “vulva” regularly.
Culture of Life indeed! Culture of cheating death maybe , but Culture of Life only based on what the reflection in the mirror looks like.
Qu’ul cuda praedex nihil!
100. neocon | June 16th, 2008 at 9:51 am
“Ah, the voice of the authoritarian theocrat!..” - bongo
But bongo, in an earlier thread you stated that if held at Gitmo for years, you too would be back on the battlefield. Meaning, you too would join those that oppress, behead and want to impose theocracy.
Is your theocracy different?
101. Jeremiah | June 16th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
97. extramedium | June 16th, 2008 at 4:10 am
Extramedium,
The Court had no desire to consider the child’s life…and they took no time to look at what the consequences of legalizing abortion would, such as using it as an excuse to pressure women into having more sex, just a convenient way to exploit the child’s life to escape responsibility……That’s dang on sick if ask me. That fool judge just doesn’t understand what fool he really is.
So, my problem right now, is not what I want the wording of the law to be, because that’s just common sense–life is too precious to be making fool decisions. My problem now is with those who redefine and cheapen the significance of life’s worth……..and mercy, that’s just like a jolt of a million volts going through me.
Ok, I better stop now, before I get in trouble…I’m getting too hot, I better go concentrate on something else…I just thought I’d respond to your comment.
Have a nice rest of your day!
102. Jay Gaultieri | June 16th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
Roe vs Wade was handed down in 1973. In the 35 years since Republicans have held the Presidency 23 of those years and appointed 7-8 of the Justices currently on the bench. Reversal of Roe vs. Wade would only kick the matter back to the states, and when an abortion ban is put on the ballot (like in South Dakota in 2006) it loses.
After 8 years of President Bush I couldn’t tell you when he ever mentioned abortion. And a President McCain won’t do anything about it either. To the GOP abortion is a ruse to get their base fired up every four years.
103. Barak Obama…Angel o&hellip | June 16th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
[…] Obama’s Support for the Culture of Death […]
104. Jeremiah | June 16th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
After 8 years of President Bush I couldn’t tell you when he ever mentioned abortion.
When he vetoed the Embryonic Stem Cell Bill crafted by Democrats as a means to advance the Culture of Death.
And a President McCain won’t do anything about it either. To the GOP abortion is a ruse to get their base fired up every four years.
What an idiotic statement. No it’s NOT just to get the base fired up, this is to get the whole United States fired up with a passion, with a CARE for LIFE, for LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!…..Dude.
105. FmrMarine | June 16th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
porno pain;
it was a search for an article in your filthy perverted website. YOU had an article posted there i wanted to show the world the swill you post.
so dont flatter your self with delusions.
106. Jay Gaultieri | June 17th, 2008 at 11:31 am
Jeremiah, it’s 35 years on and nothings been done about Roe vs. Wade. Against abortion? Convince someone not to have one.
Because an abortion ban is just like your other hit button issues like prayer in public schools, miscegenation laws, and the burning of books you don’t like:
It ain’t gonna happen.
107. Sadly, No! » From M&hellip | July 1st, 2008 at 1:22 am
[…] Slipping Mark’s mind at the moment is that, unlike himself, ‘the left’ doesn’t follow the spiritual leadership of the Vatican. But experienced fans of his work — Noonanites? Noonanschanz? — have seen this line of reasoning before. Arguments against official violence and cruelty (the death penalty, military adventures, bombings of civilians, indefinite detentions, torture) always seem to be dismissed by the observation that abortion is legal in the US, whereupon the whole mess is shifted onto ‘the left’ for not supporting a ‘Culture of Life’ — indeed, for supporting a Culture of Death. […]