Politics and Religion
Tags: Christianity, Morality, Religious Leaders.
Click here to get Caucus of Corruption: The Truth About The New Democratic Majority by Matt Margolis and Mark Noonan.
Being interviewed by Hugh Hewitt, Archbishop Charles Chaput of Denver states clearly the need for injecting faith into politics:
HH: Now Archbishop, let’s dive into the book. Again, for the benefit of people tuning in, it’s Render Unto Caesar: Serving The Nation By Living Our Catholic Beliefs In Public Life. And I want to emphasize, it’s not just for Catholics, though that’s obviously the intent of this. I was trying to figure out your motive, and then I came across a quote from a Vietnamese bishop, later made a cardinal, which was, “The greatest failure in leadership is for the leader to be afraid to speak and act as leader.” Is that part of the motive, Archbishop?
CC: Well, I have a responsibility as a bishop to clearly proclaim the Gospel in its entirety, even when people don’t want me to do that, and even when it’s difficult. So I wouldn’t claim to be particularly courageous, but I feel responsible. And if I don’t speak on the issues that I think the Lord calls me to speak, I feel guilty about that. So for me to be quiet on these issues would have been a harder burden for me to carry, perhaps, than speaking about it. Actually, I mentioned two reasons why I wrote the book. One is some Catholic political folks asked me to, people who ran for office, and were having struggles because of that. But more importantly, I’ve grown tired of so many people in our culture saying to believers that they ought to be quiet, that there’s no place in the public square for the voice of faith. I wanted to make a distinction between separation of Church and state, and separating our faith from our politics. You can embrace the concept of separation of Church and state, but that’s not at all the same thing as separating our faith from our actions, from our political actions.
Bravo, Archbishop! All of the people must be allowed to bring their beliefs into the public square and be allowed argue that their worldview should be adopted, in whole or in part, in law and custom. What the secularists of today are trying to do – especially through such things as the ACLU’s war on Christmas – is to say that the believer, especially the Christian believer, must check his beliefs that door to politics. This attitude is unjust, un-American and, fundamentally, a fascist point of view, and it must be fought against tooth and nail.
I don’t have a right to insist that my fellow citizens worship in the Catholic Church or believe any of the dogmas of the Church. We are free in our consciences. But it is not an imposition of my religion if I convince a constitutional majority of my fellow citizens to enact into law some thing which also happens to be in accordance with Catholic teaching. If what I advocate seems good and true and appears to meet some need identified by the citizenry and the resultant law is enacted under whatever constitutional reguirements prove necessary, then all I’ve done is creat a law – not established a religion or imposed a particular religion on everyone.
Outside of that, I also argue that our secularists are not just wrong to attempt this separation of faith and politics, but are also foolish. The plain fact of the matter is that our way of life is built upon a Judeo-Christian base. The fundamental concept that we, as individuals, are valuable and have endowed rights is a Judeo-Christian concept – cut our politics off from its wellsprings and it will dry up and die. At bottom, if you wish to live your life as an agnostic secularist, you desperately need the cooperation of believers who sustain the concepts which allow you to live as you do.
In our faith we find our true political beliefs, and as long as our political beliefs are grounded in our faith, so they will be healthy and beneficial to the world. Seperate the two and faith will continue to thrive, but politics will die – and with it many of the liberties we cherish.
Thank you for visiting Blogs For Victory. If you enjoy our content, please consider making a donation to help us cover the costs of our servers.Mark Noonan is co-author (with Matt Margolis) of Caucus of Corruption: The Truth About The New Democratic Majority. He also blogs at Nevada News and Views. Follow Mark on Twitter.
70 Responses to “Politics and Religion”
Caucus of Corruption
Dennis,
Been trolling the anti-Catholic websites?
Mark,
Leave Rasmus alone. You didn’t even address what he said, you just decided to act as if he was stupid and can’t think. Why? Because he actually said something that might make sense?
Oh, but he doesn’t agree with the great Mark Noonan. So instead of nicely saying ” Hey, why don’t you check out this book that might give you an understanding of why I believe what I believe”, you immediately insult him and say he can’t think. Why? Because he doesn’t agree with the great Mark Noonan’s worldview.
Mark, GROW UP!!!!
Stop making smug comments to people as if you know it all. My problem with what you say is NOT that you are Christian, NOT that you are Conservative, and NOT that we don’t agree on many issues.
My problem, which I have tried to patiently explain to you, is that you are ARROGANT! You put other people down and act as if you and your beliefs are superior. YOUR knowledge of Rasmus, me and oher people who post here and the ignorant know-it-all way you act is not suprisingly ignorant and devoid of thought.
As I have said, I do NOT believe that Conservatives are wrong about everything, all the time. On fact, I agree with many Conservative principles. But I also see the value in many Liberal ideals. Though I do not agree with the far left oir the far right, I feel that both sides through the middle have much to offer and are not “wrong all the time and about everything.”
Your statement of that over and over is just plain ARROGANT!!! Liberals do not treat you that way, Mark. At least not all Liberals.
Stop acting as if you are superior and have a resonable conversation, where you do not have to try to prove you are right about everything.
Mark, people can disagree with each other without saying that everything the other believes in has no value and no worth. You, hoiwever, seem to believe that Liberals have nothing good to offer and nothing they think or feel matters and has any value. That attitude is the height or arrogance, and you need to stop and think before you act. Be HUMBLE to your fellow man, Mark, you just might need him someday.
[...] Politics and ReligionI was trying to figure out your motive, and then I came across a quote from a Vietnamese bishop, later made a cardinal, which was, “The greatest failure in leadership is for the leader to be afraid to speak and act as leader. … [...]
Robert,
It appears I really get your goat – understanding that we do all want to be united in the by and by, don’t you think that your coming here with your current lack of love and charity for me is actually counter productive? For your own health and the sake of our eventually unity in Christ, it might be better for you to absent yourself from this blog until you are better able to deal with contrasting points of view.
Jeremiah, I think you realize everything I said above was factual, easy to confirm and used within reasonable context. But in the main I can find no fault with what you said in post 48. For once I agree with you, and even though our convictions differ on many other matters I accept you as a brother in Christ.
I would encourage you to study the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, the true Master, to discover the heart and soul of liberal thinking. It’s right there in your Bible, and if you can extend the same courtesy to others that you extend to Mark, you’ll eventually find it isn’t all those terrible things you think it is.
Mark, this is subject matter I’ve studied for decades. I had most of those quotes long before there was an internet. Too many good Christian people have never studied the Protestant Reformation, do not know what it meant and all it accomplished for the advancement of the Gospel. A few of us have.
I respect your tenacity, but observe that only days ago you admitted “Sola Scriptura” isn’t adequate to your system of belief. I don’t remember your exact words or the context, but most of your readers will not understand the implications of that, or know that Sola Scriptura once was the very foundation of Christianity. Nowadays those who hew to the Bible only are placed on the defensive and made to appear as bigots. History does repeat.
As a footnote, I do not subscribe to verbal inspiration or biblical inerrancy (as many fundamentalists do) but to thought inspiration, wherein language and translation are weighed to find the intended meaning of biblical authors. It requires more critical thinking and contemplation, and certainly more and deeper exposure to the Bible.
Being spoonfed doctrine rather than studying the Scriptures tends to foster fanaticism and reliance upon human authority, rather than a personal appreciation for theological concepts such as Christ’s intercessory role and the completeness of His atonement. But I digress. You choose human authority, I choose the Bible. You end up an authoritarian and I end up a liberal. That alone speaks volumes.
Mark,
I do not have a lack of love and charity for you – I have difficulty in understanding where you come from when so much of what you say seems arrogant.
I also do not have issue with contrasting points of view. I do have an issue with people who speak arrogantly.
Mark, you have every right to speak your mind, but you should do it in such a way as to respect others. Saying that Liberals are “wrong all the time and about everything” is devaluing them as a person. You scream your head off all the time when people tromp on your values.
All I am saying is that you should treat others in the world as equals, instead of putting yourself above them.
I respect your faith. I respect your values. But, by you words, you do not respect the faith and values of any Liberal. You seem to deem Liberals as pariah, without the capability of thought. That is wrong, Mark – it is wrong. Other people have used their brains just as much as you claim to have, and they have come up with different answers.
You have every right to believe that your faith is correct. That is fine. But you need to understand that for other people, sometimes there are other things that make sense. To those people, they are NOT “wrong all the time and about everything.”
All I ask is that you think about things. Think about seeing the value in differing points of view yourself. Try to learn humility before your fellow man, even if they think differently from you. You say that you love all mankind. Then, please, for the sake of your own faith, act like it! Stop posting smug, know-it-all comments to posters and treat others as you wish to be treated. That also means looking at Liberals and saying this – “I do not agree with your point of view, but I do realize that to you it is important, perhaps just as important (to you) as my beliefs are to me. I might never agree with you, but it is up to you to decide what is right for you. I will decide what is right for me.”
This method of communication is much more mature than “Liberals are wrong all the time and about everything.”
So, my thoughts to you are to watch the Olympics, where people of all races and all cultures and all religions put political differences aside to compete with grace and honor and respect. As one of the Russian Olympians said about her rival Georgian – “If the world took lessons from what we do here, there would be no more wars.” And then she hugged the Georgian girl.
That, my friend Mark, is the way it is done.
I think that I might take a respite from this blog after all, to think of more positive things. Unfortunately, there are times when listening to people like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and sometimes reading stuff from you, that I begin to lose my faith in humanity.
Not because of differing points of view, but because of man’s arrogance to other men.
Conservatives are not evil and Christians are not evil. Arrogant men, however, can find themselves very close to the edge of evil. That is why I beg you to try a different way. You never have to falter in your convictions, just so you realize that other people have values that are just as valid as yours.
Until then, for my own health, as you say (and, in truth and in the reality outside of this computer generated forum this also applies) I need to think more positively and stop letting overblown braggarts ruin my day.
I will continue to live the best way I know how, and I refuse to ever let myself become so taken with myself that I devalue someone else’s most devout beliefs.
I refuse to ever say that someone else is “wrong all the time and about everything.”
I hope that by these convictions, I will strive to always do good for EVERYONE in this world, regardless of their beliefs. I hope that one day you will learn to do the same.
Fare thee well, kind sir. I hope that the future sees you well. And don’t ever lose your faith. Simply open your mind to others and their faith as well.
Noonan writes:
“For your own health and the sake of our eventually unity in Christ, it might be better for you to absent yourself from this blog until you are better able to deal with contrasting points of view.”
However, Noonan earlier wrote:
“I highly recommend that you dispense with everything you believe and go read, oh, “The Everlasting Man”…something, anything along those lines will start to shake you out of your mental complacency and at least get you thinking.”
Yeah, you are never smug, pretentious, or dismissive of other points of view. Noonan, give me a break. Doesn’t your religion encourage recognition of failings?
As for your post, I really can’t say anything about it. You have written so much but have not really said anything.
“As long as our politcal beliefs are grounded in our faith . . . ”
Whose politcal beliefs? Yours? Mine? If yours, why yours?
Whose faith? Yours? Mine? My Hindu neighbor’s?
Define grounded. Are we to take our laws directly from the Bible? Are we to try to divine what Jesus would do? Or are you talking about religious concepts more generally (the Ten Commandments) ?
Then there is this:
“If what I advocate seems good and true and appears to meet some need identified by the citizenry and the resultant law is enacted under whatever constitutional reguirements prove necessary, then all I’ve done is creat a law – not established a religion or imposed a particular religion on everyone.”
Well, that really depends on the law you are advocating, doesn’t it?
Say a school board required a teacher to say an Islamic prayer every morning to her students. Is that establishing a religion if students need not participate?
Also, I find the whole post, including some of the Archbishop’s statements, defying the reality of our political environment.
I mean, look at this:
“What the secularists of today are trying to do – especially through such things as the ACLU’s war on Christmas – is to say that the believer, especially the Christian believer, must check his beliefs that door to politics. ”
This is just not true.
You confuse two issues. It is one thing to develop one’s own politcal beliefs on faith. It is another to insist laws are passed which institutionize that faith. It is the latter which the ACLU fights against. If anything the ACLU fights for Christians to speak in the publlic square. You and Jeremiah suffer from the same misunderstanding about the ACLU’s purpose.
But more importantly, I think you and the Archbishop are wrongly playing the victims here.
Look around you, Mark. the vast majority of politicians and the public are saying faith should influence one’s politcal stances on moral issues. If fact, both candidates are feverishly talking about how their faith (their Christian Faith, mind you) influences their actions. What was Saddleback all about?
I guess, my question is: What are you bitchin’ about? Do you really think the faithful in this nation are not courted to enough by politicians?
“It is another to insist laws are passed which institutionize that faith”
Whyever would that be wrong? After all liberals insist that laws are passed that institutionalize secular including liberal faith.
Faith is simply a belief in something. Why should I not advocate and even aggitate for laws that conform with Christian beliefs if you can advocate and aggitate laws that conform to secular and liberal beliefs?
If you are trying to say in a “cute” way that Christians want a theocracy then you are deluded as well as many of the other leftists. Wanting laws to conform to our Christian beliefs is no where close to wanting a “theorcacy”.
What, the problem is that Mark’s particular brand of faith ultimately would demand submission from everyone – believers and unbelievers alike. Post 40 above lists but a fraction of the number of statements conveying this idea that have issued from the Vatican over decades and centuries.
These quotes have nothing to do with anti-Catholic bigotry, as Mark claims. They accurately portray a historic and virulent authoritarianism, an intolerance of free will, which if not resisted would grip society as it did during medieval times. The current Pope Benedict is a strong proponent of this authoritarian tradition. The dominionism of the evangelical right is but another strain of this hunger for wordly power, which is antithetical to what Jesus teaches in the Gospels.
Sue, nobody is being “cute” or delusional. Magnum Serpentine’s concern at the top of this thread is not imaginary. Antonin Scalia, in a 2002 seminar on the death penalty: “Government, however you want to limit that concept, derives its moral authority from God. It is the minister of God with powers to revenge, to execute wrath, including even wrath by the sword.” It is but a little reach to connect this opinion with enforcement of religious behavior. And make no mistake, if dominionists achieved their fondest goal that is exactly what would happen.
What? is correct in post 57 that the faithful in America are now pandered to by politicians, and it is not a healthy trend. Freedom OF religion also means freedom FROM religion for those who choose it. Without the freedom to say “No” there is no freedom at all. Religion is not the business of government.
Dennis,
Well, those quotes of yours seems to come from the this website, which is anti-Catholic, anti-Seventh Day Adventist, anti-Mormon, anti-Calvinist, anti-Jehova’s Witness and anti-Moslem – and for all I can tell, anti-Anyone Who Doesn’t Agree. To attempt to use the lies of bigots to accuse my faith of bigotry is a rather odd thing, don’t you think?
Ex ecclesia nulla sallust - outside the Church there is no salvation; but who is in the Church? Only God really knows. It is my firm conviction that the Pope in Rome is the successor of St. Peter, who was made head of the Church by Christ while he lived on Earth as a man – the Church pre-dates the scriptures, so sola scriptura is incorrect, and when it comes down to a conflict on the meaning of the Bible I will rely upon the organization which has carefully considered these matters for 2,000 years rather than the personal opinion of some person who has set himself up, in supreme arrogance, as better able to judge such matters than the collective wisdom of millions of people over thousands of years.
Dennis,
I have to say that I agree with Judge Scalia’s interpretation of the Scripture as well as where government receives its Just powers…Yes, indeed, from Almighty God above.
God gives us our rights, and government is instituted in order to preserve those rights.
Any time those rights are breeched, through rebellion against an individual or as a group, in any form which would pose harm to an innocent person/persons, then it is the job of the government to avail their just powers in the public’s interest of their grievance.
Our system of law is derived from a Biblical base. As Antonin Scalia explained…it is in line with Roman’s chapter 13
Romans 13:1-4
‘Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, and agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.’
The Bible is clear on the government’s purpose, and whence God is the source of just law, we find the sixth commandment from the Ten Commandments to be one of the laws, which, if broken, the government will compensate for tha wrong…’Thou Shall Not Murder.’
To understand the purpose of the law … we go now to 1 Timothy … which says,
1 Timothy 1:8-10
‘We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that law is not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers and mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers–and for whatever else is conrary to the sound doctrine tha conform to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.’
Who are the murderers? The abortionists.
Who are the perverts? I’ll let you figure that one out (Hint: It’s easy!).
Who are the irreligious? The Atheists.
So, you can see why society as a whole has deteriorated … because man has moved away from this sacred law which while it is strict, it commissions people to submit to the authority in order that society may continue to have the freedom to prosper.
Now, if you notice, all these other philosophies combined, but Socialism and Communism in particular do not allow for this freedom of law and order, but instead are oppressive in their law, as it is pre-dominantly Atheist in nature … China comes to mind here. Which would contradict Robert’s earlier statement, regarding the Olympics…it is an ourtright falsehood to claim that “everybody, of all walks of life get to come together” … it’s just not so … Christians are being persecuted by the millions, and are not allowed to participate in watching the Olympic games. So maybe Robert needs to take notice and quit his lying. To further illustrate China’s oppressive Atheist militant state…a few of the facts are that they have forced abortions, and they run over college kids with tanks, and so forth, just pure demonic hatred for Christians. This needs stopped, and we need to stop supporting China because of this fact. They have reaped Trillions upon untold trillions of dollars from America, and you can see what our money is supporting. I say shame on our goverment! We must demand some accountability from China or else we will not support one more dime to their corrupt empire!!!!! PERIOD!!!!
The same thing has been happening here in America for the past several decades, it is silently destroying America from within – Every college student is required, or better termed, forced, to take four years of Darwinism, and nothing is being done to immunize children who may students of these indoctrination centers, everybody else is pass’e or ‘relic’ but Darwinism continue to destroy the cognitive processes of our future Scientists and Doctoral degrees. Everything, the Media, academia, and intelligentsia in general is ruled by Darwin to some degree or another.
Most Bible-believing Christians are aware of this as it pertains to biology and geology. They are not aware, however, in the social sciences and humanities, yet, this is where Darwinism rules with and iron grip. But it doesn’t stop there, Darwinism, encompasses a wide variety of subjects all the way from those majors in history, psychology, education, economics, business, and sociology.
Just to give you an example…Anthropologists believe in primitive societies…Why? They supposedly existed “tens of thousands of years ago.” They were the first examples of “man’s social evolution”, so to speak. Thus, they were the “first” examples of man’s move upward … but it get’s even more interesting, as we point out the flawed conceptions of these supposed “scientists”. These same societies that the Anthropologists point to, still exist to this day. Why? They do not point out their (the tribes) rejection of Biblical Sciptures (after Noah) and so forth, as the cause of their backwardness and un-advancing, un-progressive ways. So, where do they get their synopsis from their environment, their surroundings.
This is pure un-adulterated Darwinism, and it takes away the inherent worth of human life, and is why it has killed more people than all philosophies combined. Combined with the other ideologies that are out there, they create this meme that if you are progressing, then you “aren’t worth anything”. So they are murdered in the name of “Science” … Darwinism is the most deadly philosphy on planet earth, and it needs to be squashed for the good of humanity.
And this is what I’ve been trying to explain to you guys on the Democratic side of the debate, is that, in liberalism, the Atheists and so called “enlightened progressives” have high-jacked everything about your party, and it is going to cause major problems with the coming generations…we are seeing the first fruits of those as we speak, in the form of Abortion, you call that “progressive”? In the form of sodomy, can you tryly call that “progressing”?
I think not!
So, all together, to better illustrate my point here, all you have to do is look at Rasmus’ post way back up top, and he explains what is wrong with your party…they claim the earth “evolved” and learned agriculture and first appeared in Mesopatamia, well, didn’t Cain offer up agriculture?
When it comes to the Bible, and folks who wrote it, and the people who were a part of it…You tell them, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John … Or even Jesus … they will say, Jesus? Who is Jesus? And then have the gall to say, “Oh that guy, he’s nothing more than a “myth”.
Anyhow, that gives you some idea of where we’re at right now, we could go the whole night…but I will say this, and for your sake … If you want to remain a free person, then you need to seriously reconsider your position on the liberal thinking, because I don’t foresee them changing anytimes soon. Why? There have been too many generations worth who have been under the sound of liberal Darwinism in our classrooms over the past half century.
Christians need to awaken, and awaken soon!
God bless!
Mark, I have never seen or heard of your web page reference before. As I said in post 55, these are topics I have studied as a Christian for decades – since before the advent of the Internet. My research came from sources like Encyclopedia Britannica, public libraries as well as mainstream news souces, both religious and secular. My preeminent source is the Bible itself.
Outside of Christ there is no salvation. No human institution can add to or nullify his atonement.
Sue,
You misunderstood my post.
I have no problem with laws that are influenced by faith. Law is influenced by numerous personal beliefs concerning justice and fairness. Religion often is a source of one’s conception of justice and fairness.
However, I want a secular government. You do, too if you honestly say you do not want a theocracy.
A secular government is one that does not endorse or discourage one’s fundamental right to worship of a religion.
A theocracy is one that encourages a belief in a diety, usually a specific one.
I do not think the right wants a theocracy. No one will ever say they do, except perhaps Jeremiah.
However, the right wants prayer in schools and the ten commandments in courtrooms. These small incursion do not make a theocracy, but they are the seedlings of one because they demonstrate a state preferance for one religion over another. They must not be allowed.
Once a government subtly endorses one religion to the expense of others, the other religions can never regain the ground they lost. Their views are permanantly prejudiced as being of lesser value. A person who worships a religion not endorsed by the state becomes a second class citizen. This is woefully evident in Islamic countries.
Dennis,
First, I am no fan of Mark’s or Jeremiah’s understanding of Christianity or religion in general. They are the very people who call for a theocracy without even realizing it.
Second, I have to disagree with your statement politicians should not speak of their religion to the electorate. This goes too far.
A candidate’s faith is a reflection of his values. A candidate’s values are very much at issue in a campaign and voters are thus right to ask such questions. It is nice to say we should focus on the issues. Ultimately character is the most important issue of all since we are, by electing a person as president, granting a huge amount of power.
I do have a problem with pandering and outright false claims of faith. McCain is guilty of this. Obama is guilty of this. Several conservative talk show hosts are guilty as well. However, I have faith most Americans can see through such shameless pandering.
Jeremiah writes:
“I have to say that I agree with Judge Scalia’s interpretation of the Scripture as well as where government receives its Just powers…Yes, indeed, from Almighty God above. ”
So the government’s power comes from Jesus and not the American electorate? Hmm, are you sure this is what Scalia said?
Uh-oh, time to go to my Darwin Indoctrination Class. It is so much harder than my pre-marital sex and abortion class.
What – I never said “politicians should not speak of their religion to the electorate.” I do not even believe in such an idea. If I inadvertently said what you attributed to me please point me to it, but I believe you are citing someone else’s remark. Two things I did say in post 59 are that the faithful in America are now pandered to by politicians, and that religion is not the business of government. I stand by those statements.
Jeremiah, I accept the premise of Romans 13 – submission to legitimate authority. I would observe that here in the USA we are ruled not by persons, but by law – to wit, by the Constitution. When elected leaders break laws and exceed their Constitutional authority we are not being faithful to Romans 13 unless we hold them to account – whether by impeachment, war crimes tribunals or lesser reprimands.
I would go one further and observe that in the case of Iraq Mr. Bush overthrew an established ruler, one who was a terrible man by any standard, yet nobody can say he was not ordained by God to hold Iraq together. David refused to touch a hair on the head of wicked king Saul, who was pursuing him to take his life (1 Samuel 24). I daresay if Mr. Bush had followed scriptural principles in dealing with Iraq, liberty for Christians would have been preserved there, Saddam Hussein would have been eventually neutralized and we would not be facing greatly empowered enemies in Iran and radical Islam. Not to mention hundreds of thousands of lives saved.
I could go on, but my point is be careful how you wield Romans 13 or it will quickly bite you and your own politics very hard. The safest practice is to take biblical principles into your own heart, but not wave them around in other people’s faces. Which brings us full circle to keeping religion out of politics.
Mark, it is almost funny that you think I got my ideas from some website. I can only say you are a Roman Catholic, and I am a Christian who learned about the Protestant Reformation in grade school. Most evangelicals have forgotten that there was such an event, if they ever knew. I was taught about Wycliffe, Luther and Tyndale as a child. I remember reading from Foxe’s Book of Martyrs in the library, not understanding how human beings could do such things to others. Later in life I learned that ideology and lust for power, whether religous or secular, will cause people to do anything imaginable. I do not hate any group or person, but I see the danger inherent in certain ideologies, and will call a bad policy when I see it. And it is both bad policy and dangerous ideology for any person to set themselves up as ruler of the conscience of every other person.
You say the church predates Scripture – you are wrong. The Old Testament predates the Christian church and spells out the shape of the New Covenant, although it was not understood until the light of Christ’s life illuminated many of those old passages (see Luke 24:32). And the living Word predates all. You are free to worship as you will but remember that the Reformation emancipated western civilization and opened that right, and that Light, to every person.
When elected leaders break laws and exceed their Constitutional authority we are not being faithful to Romans 13
Dennis,
You see, I gave you an opportunity to read and therefore give a response according to what the law is as it relates to the death penalty … yet, instead you go off an a tangint about how you hate President Bush and want to see him tried and convicted as a
war criminal“traitor”.I am proud to inform you, my friend, that that kind of hatred is not healthy for your soul!!
I could go on, but my point is be careful how you wield Romans 13 or it will quickly bite you
And the same goes for you, as well, with our prisons filled to capacity … we can see how your version of Romans 13 is working out, and if Obama becomes President, Romans 13 will not exist, and therefore, ushering in our doom!
To me, Romans 13 means exactly what it says, the government’s purpose is to maintain laws that will bring justice against the wrongdoers, such as the Murderers, Abortionists, etc, etc.
to wit, by the Constitution.
And the wit behind the Constitution, friend, is The Holy Written Word of The Living God!
[...] Politics and ReligionI was trying to figure out your motive, and then I came across a quote from a Vietnamese bishop, later made a cardinal, which was, “The greatest failure in leadership is for the leader to be afraid to speak and act as leader. … [...]
Dennis,
Mea Culpa, I misread your earlier statement. I think we are pretty much in agreement.
[...] Politics and ReligionI was trying to figure out your motive, and then I came across a quote from a Vietnamese bishop, later made a cardinal, which was, “The greatest failure in leadership is for the leader to be afraid to speak and act as leader. … [...]
[...] Politics and Religion By Mark Noonan I don?t have a right to insist that my fellow citizens worship in the Catholic Church or believe any of the dogmas of the Church. We are free in our consciences. But it is not an imposition of my religion if I convince a constitutional … Blogs For Victory – http://blogsforvictory.com [...]