Can a Democratic Tradition Grow Out of Moslem Theology?
August 24th, 2008 at 01:47am Mark Noonan
Food for thought as Christians and Moslems start a series of meetings to discuss the shared beliefs of the two faiths:
Christian and Muslim leaders from around the world met this summer at Yale University for the first of four conferences to discuss “the foundational principles” of the two faiths…
…Last fall, 138 Islamic leaders from forty nations sent a letter, “A Common Word between Us and You,” addressed to the pope and other Christian leaders worldwide. The twenty-nine-page letter invited Christians to meet with Muslims on the basis of “what is common to us and most essential to our faith and practice: the Two Commandments,” i.e., love of God and love of neighbor…
…Many are ready to dismiss this … as mere piety or naivete. They should reconsider: The history of democracy in the West owes a great debt to these two commandments. Secular-minded historians and political scientists would like us to believe that democratic ideals emerged from the triumph of Enlightenment thought—in opposition to Christian doctrine. In fact, the Biblical concepts of human dignity and equality supplied the philosophical pillars of liberal democracy, especially in the Anglo-American tradition. Ministers on both sides of the Atlantic, for example, regularly cited the golden rule—what they called “the great rule of equity”—to argue for religious toleration and equal justice under the law.
Are the Christian leaders who gathered at Yale familiar with this history, and are they willing to press its lessons upon their Muslim guests? Participating groups such as the liberal National Council of Churches have shown scant interest in defending the persecuted church, the principle of religious freedom, or the democratic institutions that sustain it. Yet if Muslims are serious about the golden rule, they must explain why the governments of most Islamic states represent such a brutal contradiction to its democratic expression.
Another potential problem with “The Common Word” dialogue is its implication that the Christian Church must reform itself no less so than the Islamic community. There’s no doubt that reform is needed. Whether the issue is materialism, hypocrisy, or the politicization of the gospel, there are real problems in the Church. Yet the danger here is the trap of moral equivalency—the assumption that modern Christianity is as prone to terrorist violence as Islam. As the Muslim letter put the matter: “The future of the world depends on peace between Muslims and Christians.”
The future of the world depends on no such thing. The existential threat to international peace and security is not a religious war between Islam and Christianity. The global threat today is a faith-based version of European fascism—a re-emergence of the totalitarian impulse, animated by the theology of radical, Islamist jihad. This ideology of bloodlust and martyrdom claims millions of adherents worldwide, inspires terrorist cells across entire continents, and is obsessed with acquiring the world’s most destructive weapons to unleash against civilian populations. “Why were millions of people astounded by what happened to America on September 11?” writes Ayman al-Zawahiri, al Qaeda’s second in command. “We have the right to kill four million Americans—two million of them children—and to exile twice as many and wound and cripple hundreds of thousands.”
There is simply no equivalent to this perverted religion anywhere in the Christian world—it is a crisis within Islam, a moral and spiritual malaise that has grown unchecked for decades. It is incumbent upon the Christian leaders engaged in this dialogue to ask why this is the case, and what their Islamic interlocutors intend to do about it.
They might take a cue from a Muslim reformer, Abd Al-Hamid Al-Ansari, the former dean of the law faculty at Qatar University. He argues that terrorism is the result of a “culture of hatred” in Arab countries and “a discourse of denial” about its homegrown sources. “How can this miserable creature called the Arab and Muslim individual not turn to extremism, when he is surrounded by an overall atmosphere of extremism, bound by the shackles of repression and prohibitions, and girded by the ideas of intimidation and terrorization, and of almost endless torment?” he writes. “Go to hear a Friday sermon, and you will find a preacher who is enraged at the world, angry at civilization, spreading the poison of hatred and enmity.”
And yet there is that - love of God and love of neighbor, which is the foundation of the West and, as noted, the foundation of our modern liberties. Moslems do profess this love, and thus there is grounds for hope. Of course, for this hope to be realised it will require not just Moslems willing to reform, but Christians willing to stand foursquare for Christian beliefs - the liberties built upon love of God and neighbor are being erroded in the West by consumerism and despair, two sins the Moslems radicals use to great effect, telling their followers that failure to fight for Islamism will result in the same moral disintegration in the Moslem world. The other problem on the Christian end, as noted by the author of the piece, is all too many Christians willing to ignore Christian belief…when the Archbishop of Canterbury starts saying that sharia law is ok by him, you know you’ve got a terrible problem in Christianity.
For Moslems to listen to us they first have to respect us - as it is, Moslems in Iraq respect our soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines. Why is this? Because they are strong men and women who act upon their convictions with no thought to personal risks. But looking past the Marine on patrol, the Moslem world can still see an America slouching ever further into a sewer of moral decay. It is a fair question for any Moslem to ask - if we are to become democratic, does this mean we have to suffer the social breakdown the West has undergone? If the answer to that question is “yes”, then it is easy to see why a lot of Moslems would be wary of democracy and willing to lend an ear to Islamist propaganda. We must show the Moslem world that freedom means the freedom to do the right thing, not an excuse to do whatever depraved thing you want.
Victory in the war, peace with the Moslem world and repairing our badly damaged society go hand in hand - and just so long as we listen to those who offer us the easy way out, so will this war go on, and our society continue to decay. On the other hand, if we arrest our rot and start back on a path to social sanity - and no better place to start than in the matter of abortion - we will show that freedom is a boon, not a bane, and the Moslem world will follow suit.
Entry Filed under: Foreign Affairs, General Government, Popular Culture, Religion, Social Issues, War on Terror
26 Comments
1. Jeremiah | August 24th, 2008 at 2:18 am
if we arrest our rot and start back on a path to social sanity - and no better place to start than in the matter of abortion - we will show that freedom is a boon, not a bane, and the Moslem world will follow suit
AMEN!! PRAISE THE LORD!!!
Way to tell it, Mark, way to tell it, my friend!
:D
2. autocarsinsurance »&hellip | August 24th, 2008 at 2:39 am
[...] Original post by Mark Noonan [...]
3. Dennis | August 24th, 2008 at 2:41 am
On the other hand, if we arrest our rot and start back on a path to social sanity - and no better place to start than in the matter of abortion - we will show that freedom is a boon, not a bane, and the Moslem world will follow suit.
Stop abortion and the Muslims will start thinking we are nice moral people?
Try starting with renouncing torture - something that has affected a number of innocent Muslims in a very high-profile manner recently. Or renouncing collective punishment, which killed thousands of innocent Iraqis as America punished Saddam Hussein for weapons he didn’t even possess. This policy continues to add insult to injury as our ally Israel deals out collective punishment to the Palestinian population at large for the offenses of the few. These are adjustments that might better persuade the Muslim world we cared a shred about morality, if we were scrupulous and persistent in their application.
Meanwhile Mark, you sound like a boon companion of the martyred Sayyid Qutb - only coming from a western tradition, while he came from an eastern. Qutb’s political views centered on religion as a complete system encompassing morality, justice and governance, and just about everything else in life. He also felt America was going to hell in a handbasket for its sexual depravity (in 1948, no less) and like you believed in authoritarian solutions. And he is described as the man whose ideas shaped Al Qaeda.
In fact the two Great Commandments (loving God supremely and loving others as ourselves) were spoken by Jesus Christ and given his imprimatur as the basis of the entire law and prophets, so they cannot be dismissed as mere naivete. If America were truly a Christian nation we all would study the implications of these two commandments, and it would not be necessary to even speak of abortion. It would be as unthinkable as legalized torture, preventive war and collective punishment.
4. What? | August 24th, 2008 at 4:47 am
Noonan writes,
“We must show the Moslem world that freedom means the freedom to do the right thing, not an excuse to do whatever depraved thing you want.”
And the “right thing” is determined by . . .
So Mark, let me get this straight. You want to change our society so that Muslims won’t hurt us. Hmm, that sounds like appeasement to me.
You know, lots of Muslims believe women should be covered at all times. Perhaps we should adopt that custom.
Also, I am interested in this magical time when society was as clean and pure as the driven snow. Please tell me when America reached this apex of morality.
5. js | August 24th, 2008 at 7:50 am
Mt 16:23 -
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
even good men have bad ideas
which of us do not believe that satan also fears God? its not love that islam is motivated by, but the desire to subdue christians in thier service to allah….allah being “the god”, of what though? they reject the Word, they reject the Revelation, and claim it is corrupt, yet…would God, whose Word is the same today and forever, change His Word and protect not what He had done, but only what mohammad professed that he had heard, and only what othman desired to be read in the koran? NO!!
our guarantee is in the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, whom the muslim does not have…and if you have ever experienced the presence of the Holy Spirit, you would know that there is no dispute…
Joh 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
6. Jason Kidd | August 24th, 2008 at 9:34 am
Deleted - slander against the United States of America.
7. neocon | August 24th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Thanks for the link Jason, but there seems to be a lot of unanswered questions and a dirth of verifiable truth in this story.
But your rush to condemn this country for the worst possible, unverifiable actions pertaining to this case exposes your hatred and lack of objectivity and only serves to perpetuate the divide that leads to chaos.
You are part of the problem, and people like you are quickly dismissed for the mindless propagandist you are.
have a nice day
neocon
8. Danish Artist | August 24th, 2008 at 11:15 am
“We must show the Moslem world that freedom means the freedom to do the right thing, not an excuse to do whatever depraved thing you want.”
Exactly, wasn’t it Bin Laden that stated so many times that it is our culture (leftist culture) that is encroaching and polluting Islam? We are the great Satan because of the evil in our culture (open homosexuality, same sex marriage, do it if it feels good mentality, drugs, free love, our movies, music and TV shows that show premiscuous sex, teenage sex and women issues forced by the left) that is leftist culture and ideals.
According to many in Islam, our leftist culture is invading their culture with demands which want them to change their ways in favor of ours.
To the left, which they perceive this as normal, won’t accept anything more than appeasement, will not so reluctantly favor curbing their errant culture and demands of others following likewise.
9. Magnum Serpentine | August 24th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
If you were to go back to 1100AD England and France, you too would say could these two nations ever become Democratic? Back then it was absolute monarchy. The King treated his nation like it was his private property and no one had rights. If you were to go only on what you saw in 1100 you would never guess that 100 years later the Magda Carta would had been written which began the slow road to Democracy for Britain.
10. Jeremiah | August 24th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
It would be as unthinkable
Dennis,
It was unthinkable, no one would have ever thought of abortion/murder being sanctioned as the law of the land. Until, along came a judge by the name of Harry Blackmun. The woman who brought her case before the court, was stemming her argument for her reasons, and her reasons alone, which didn’t represent the views and customs for the rest of America. And so now we have endured almost 38 years of that tyrannical ruling. And they continue to base their “reasoning” on personal reasons, reasons that go beyond the sacredness of what we had based our entire country on. We had the freedom to do good, but now the left has deceived and coerced people, especially college students, into thinking that we have the freedom to do bad…and they care less about the implications that it has had and will have in the future. These left-wing academics let that Atheist snake Margaret Sanger rule their thinking.
The people didn’t see it coming, they were blind-sided in the 1920s. They had no idea what the ACLUs purpose was, because of the diversion that materialistic prosperity brought, which was a result of thei reliance on Almighty God.
We were a mighty power plant until we allowed the ACLU to take root. Now, our power is waning, our turbines are slowly but ever so surely losing the power to move, and pretty soon, we will stand idle, and others will take over to finish off what was once a great beacon of prosperity to turn it into a dictatorship.
We must open the flood gates, and allow Jesus Christ’s message, the Manna from Heaven, to flow freely once again through the hallways of our schools and public institutions, if we are to remain prosperous and striving for hope, a land flowing with Milk and Honey.
11. Mark Noonan | August 24th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Dennis,
Moslems aren’t concerned what professional political bedwetters on the American left are concerned about…a Moslem isn’t worried about being sent to Gitmo, he’s worried that the American forces will bring to Iraq a social structure where his daughter will wind up no better than a whore…or where his son will wind up dissolute. He cares less about what Israel is doing in Gaza than what the European porno satellite channel is doing in Kirkuk.
Stop thinking like a leftist and start thinking like a human being, for crying out loud…
12. A Second Hand Conjecture &hellip | August 24th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
[...] Blogs for Victory Another potential problem with “The Common Word” dialogue is its implication that the Christian Church must reform itself no less so than the Islamic community. There’s no doubt that reform is needed. Whether the issue is materialism, hypocrisy, or the politicization of the gospel, there are real problems in the Church. Yet the danger here is the trap of moral equivalency—the assumption that modern Christianity is as prone to terrorist violence as Islam. [...]
13. Mark Noonan | August 24th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
what,
You know what the right thing is - whether you will choose to do it, or not, is up to you.
But while we can’t get rid of the depravity, we can place limits on it which will indicate to everyone that it is nasty stuff which we tolerate, but don’t like. These things would be along the lines of forbidding so called “adult content” on television and radio before 11pm or after 5am; placing the “adult” rated video games behind the counter, like pornographics magazines; enforcing strict dress codes in our schools; enforcing curfews to keep minors off the streets after 9 pm on weeknights, 10 pm on weekends…things like that.
Step outside your cynical, post-Christian west way of viewing things and try to think, for a moment, like a Moslem father in Fallujah who does want his kids - boys and girls - to be able to take advantage of the things the modern world has to offer, but who also wants them to remain Moslem and respectable by his lights. Do that, and you’ll start to understand what we’re up against, and what might help…
14. js | August 24th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
1 Cor 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
1 Cor 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
(mohammad rejected the crucifixion and resurrection, he did not acknowledge the existing Word of God…so mohammad was not a prophet)
Num 12:6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.
(mohammad was never spoken to by God, but what he claimed was “gabriel”, an angel…)
15. What? | August 24th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Mark writes:
“we can place limits on it which will indicate to everyone that it is nasty stuff which we tolerate, but don’t like. These things would be along the lines of forbidding so called “adult content” on television and radio before 11pm or after 5am; placing the “adult” rated video games behind the counter, like pornographics magazines; enforcing strict dress codes in our schools; enforcing curfews to keep minors off the streets after 9 pm on weeknights, 10 pm on weekends…things like that.”
Wow, you are really reaching here. If you really think these meausres will improve our standing in the Muslim world you are incredibly out of touch.
16. What? | August 24th, 2008 at 11:51 pm
Danish Artist,
You are wrong. Bin Laden said flat out that it was not our freedoms that he opposed. It was our foreign policy that drove him to do what he did including our military presence in Saudi Arabia and our support of Isreal.
Also, I find it strange you are willing to give up some of our culture to appease an enemy. I thought you were against appeasement.
17. Mark Noonan | August 25th, 2008 at 2:04 am
what,
As I said, you have to step outside yourself for a moment…get out of that Euro-centric world view and see the world through Moslem eyes, for a moment…
18. What? | August 25th, 2008 at 2:49 am
Okay Mark,
I am a Muslim. I am tired of Americans like you wanting to set up military bases in my country. I am upset that your military tortured my fellow Muslims. I am upset that you fail to question any act by Isreal against the Palestinians. I don’t like that you support authoritarian governments like the ones in Saudi Arabia while claiming you are pro-democracy. I don’t like how you invaded a country and now demand it pay those soldiers who invaded.
You see, Mark? If you had the courage to look at the world through the eyes of the Muslim world, you would find the avarage Middle Easterner has far greater beefs with the U.S. than how the local Target stocks its video games.
But you might ask how do I know this is what they are thinking.
Bin Laden made clear after 9/11 that he did not resent our culture as much as he resented its foreign policy. He chose not to attack civilian targets because he did not blame the American people for the acts of its government. It was only when attacks against the government failed to alter that policy did he choose to attack non-government targets.
I find it amazing you are asking me to see the world through the eyes of the Muslim world when you have ignored their perspective for the past five years.
It also saddens me that your faith and sense of moral superiority clouds your intellect. Moving violent video games to the back counter isn’t going to change the rift caused by a foreign policy that is coming strikingly close to imperialism.
Also, how am I being “Euro-centric?”
19. What? | August 25th, 2008 at 3:12 am
Also Mark,
If the Islamic world’s true issue with the United States is our godlessness shouldn’t they love Bush, a man of God?
Don’t you think you are making an overly broad generalization that Iraqis like our Marines? Remember, they have killed over 4,000 of our soldiers and the current government is under intense pressure to remove our military from the country.
Lastly, there is this:
“You know what the right thing is - whether you will choose to do it, or not, is up to you.”
No Mark, I don’t. Apparently a lot of people don’t since you claim we are living in a depraved, nasty country which Muslims correctly fear and hate.
Can’t you see Al Queda distributes propaganda to convince the Muslim world we are depraved. I do not believe such propaganda. I cannot believe that you do.
20. FmrMarine | August 25th, 2008 at 10:43 am
whatTF
>>>>I am a Muslim. I am tired of Americans like you wanting to set up military bases in my country. I am upset that your military tortured my fellow Muslims. I am upset that you fail to question any act by Isreal against the Palestinians.>>>>
Screw the palis, screw islam, and screw you!
21. FmrMarine | August 25th, 2008 at 10:48 am
what
read this moron…….
http://frontpagemag.com/media/pdf/BigLies.pdf
22. What? | August 26th, 2008 at 2:28 am
First off,
I am not Muslim. I was simply playing the role Mark asked me to play. The issues mentioned are the issues which cause those in the Middle East to dislike us.
Please read entire posts before you write.
Second,
I do not see what the purpose of your link was. Is it to prove that the Muslim world is not angry with Isreali’s acts against the Palestinians? It does not prove that. It doesn’t even speak to that issue which is the issue of Mark’s and my postings.
In acutality your article reinforces my point. Muslims are angry with the existence of Isreal and our complete support of it. The article merely states that Isreal is without blame for this anger. First, the fact the article was written by a Jewish person kind of undermines its credibility, don’t you think? Second, the Palestinians have articles reaching the exact opposite conclusion. Third, the article is pointless. Neither side is going to admit wrong doing. Both think they are fighting the righteous cause. The question is not who “started it.” It is: how we are going to end it?
As usual Former Marine, you do not know what this post is about. Please go away. You shouldn’t talk when you don’t understand. If you follow this rule, you will never talk and the world will be a better place.
23. What? | August 26th, 2008 at 2:41 am
Former Marine writes:
“Screw the palis, screw islam, and screw you!”
Wow, thankfully you are a FORMER Marine. I hope our actual Marines aren’t as ignorant and bigoted as you are. If they are, we will never win the Iraqis hearts and minds.
24. Jeremiah | August 26th, 2008 at 2:45 am
What?
No. You’ve got it all backwards.
The Muslims don’t like us because we’re thwarting their plans to take over the world.
They don’t like us because we won’t allow them to continue killing and torturing innocent people.
It’s not a mystery by any stretch of the imagination … they follow a blind faith rooted in hatred, and are mad that we’re the Great Wall … the wall seperating good from bad.
Please tell them to jump on board the ‘good’ ship!
25. Dennis | August 26th, 2008 at 3:50 am
Wrong, Jer. Muslims weren’t trying to take over the world sixty years ago.
It wasn’t until after Israel had persecuted the Palestinian people into a state of desperation and western powers had staked claims in Islamic lands, deposed their legitimately elected rulers and supported tyrants who oppressed them that Muslim extremism was awakened. After a while everybody reaches their limit of endurance.
26. Jeremiah | August 26th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Muslims weren’t trying to take over the world sixty years ago.
Wrong, wrong, wrong, Dennis.
The Muslims have tried to dominate long before Hitler go back Ooooh, I’d say about 1400 something B.C. … Ishmael’s line has been fighting ever since. Jump forward about 8 or 900 years and they are still killing innocent people, trying to take over Christendom during the Crusades. Jump forward another 1,000 years and they’re still trying to kill us.
And through it all, we have ALWAYS sided with OUR people, the Christian people everywhere in the world.
We can’t conquer the whole world, no, but that does not mean we can’t try to defend ourselves and our freedom, including our brothers and sisters around the world against these murderers (Islamists).
So please quit spreading anti-Ameircan rhetoric that weakens our image. Because I am PROUD of our history!!!! And will ALWAYS cherish freedom!!!
ISLAM DELENDA EST!!!