The story:
SAN ANTONIO — Senator John McCain got support on Wednesday from an important corner of evangelical Texas when the pastor of a San Antonio mega-church, Rev. John C. Hagee, endorsed Mr. McCain for president. Mr. Hagee, who argues that the United States must join Israel in a preemptive, biblically prophesized military strike against Iran that will lead to the second coming of Christ, praised Mr. McCain for his pro-Israel views.
The response:
Yesterday, Senator John McCain said he was “very honored by Pastor John Hagee’s endorsement.” The Republican presidential hopeful also called Hagee “the staunchest leader of our Christian evangelical movement,” citing the minister’s pro-Israel stance.
Catholic League president Bill Donohue addressed this today:
“There are plenty of staunch evangelical leaders who are pro-Israel, but are not anti-Catholic. John Hagee is not one of them. Indeed, for the past few decades, he has waged an unrelenting war against the Catholic Church. For example, he likes calling it ‘The Great Whore,’ an ‘apostate church,’ the ‘anti-Christ,’ and a ‘false cult system.’
Hagee, to put it mildly, is an unpleasant fellow – I went over to McCain’s website to see if there was more on this, and so far I haven’t even found it mentioned. I hope that Senator McCain will address this issue – but I am also quite confident, due to McCain’s past actions vis a vis Catholicism, that he doesn’t in any way, shape or form agree with Hagee’s views of the Catholic Church. My bet is that McCain was aware of Hagee’s staunchly pro-Israel stance, and that is what McCain was thinking of in obtaining this endorsement.
In general terms, I never engage in a fight with my brothers and sisters in Christ – and even though I view Hagee as terribly wrong, I won’t even fight him on this. I’ll pray he’ll allow God to enlighten him on the truth of these matters, but I see no profit in fighting a fellow Christian – however erring – when the whole of religion is under attack in our nation. I understand, and respect, Mr. Donohue’s position and agree that such things need to be brought up, and condemned, but in my view there is a need, also, for a careful understanding of the real stakes in 2008; Hagee’s influence is relatively small, and no matter how destructive he might be, he won’t do nearly the damage that a President Obama or a President Hillary will do.
UPDATE: Given that our lefties are trying very hard to pick a fight between McCain and Catholics over this, I think it worthwhile to bring up Catholics for McCain; there are quite a lot of my fellow Catholics who are enthusiastic backers of John McCain and this is a much stronger indicator of McCain’s views about Catholicism than the fact that the anti-Catholic Hagee endorsed him.
UPDATE: John McCain responds to the firestorm:
Yesterday, Pastor John Hagee endorsed my candidacy for president in San Antonio, Texas. However, in no way did I intend for his endorsement to suggest that I in turn agree with all of Pastor Hagee’s views, which I obviously do not.
I am hopeful that Catholics, Protestants and all people of faith who share my vision for the future of America will respond to our message of defending innocent life, traditional marriage, and compassion for the most vulnerable in our society.
Of course, it would have been better if the endorsement had never happened – but it did happen, and one can’t undo the past; meanwhile, we don’t want to alienate those followers of Hagee who are sincere, if misguided, Christians who do want what is best for America and the world. This is the best way around it all – making lemonade out of the lemons, as it were.
Blogs For Victory 
143. Some Assembly Required | February 29th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
“As far as anyone can really say consciousness is only apparent if one can remember it”
No, that is memory. You can be conscious of pain and not remember it. Does that mean that the pain didnt exist? NO, it just means you didnt remember it.
Take the same test you perscribe, do you remember being born? (of course not, nobody does). Does that mean that you were never born? NOPE. It just means you didnt remember it.
When you get drunk, and do thinks that you dont remember the next day, does that mean you really didnt do them? According to your “test”, you would have to say no, right up until you find out that you totalled your car…..
No. Memory is not a test of consciousness.
If someone stabs you in the belly with a sharp knife, are you conscious of the pain?
Well said, JS.
I guess we could say conscience is what we perceive in the here and now.
–Jeremiah–
Kahn,
Nice job of bringing in another unrelated topic and trying to apply it to me when I haven’t even written anything about unions and “grass roots organizations”. However, it is insufficient to cover your obvious, and completely understandable, reluctance to defend Senator McCain’s current warm embrace of John Hagee who is so wacky, zany and “kooky” (as you so genteelly put it) that he thinks that you worship as a member of “the Great Whore”. Don’t worry. We understand your wanting to change the subject and not own up to the implications of your silence on the real topic here. Let me remind you, it’s “John McCain, Hagee and Catholics”.
southerner – well, you didn’t need to interject the insults. I didn’t actually read your post above. Thanks though. Thanks to the link about the year 501. I’ve made the same point to you several times without the insults.
Should I treat you that way also now asshole?
Should these types or organizations be treated differently? And unions, the real point I was making, they are also deductible for both sides, aren’t they. Asshole?
Meanwhile what about those reasonable doubts about those babies? And your admitting that some current abortions are murders (by your very own definitions)? Asshole.
Gotta go now, your mammas calling. Asshole.
Diana, jeeez how many time do I have to say this? I DON’T CARE!!!! I DON”T CARE!!!
Your side supports current ongoing organized murder – which is worse.
You insist on equating wacky speech with child murder. I don’t. Murder is worse. Abortion is murder is worse than thinking there’s some huge Zionist conspiracy or whatever the heck Hagee says. I don’t care.
Get it? Is that clear? I’m not defending McCain on this. I don’t care about this.
Jeeezzzzz.
There is no medical test that either proves or disproves the existence of consciousness in fetal development.
No, meaning, none. But when they stick the baby with a scalpel, it feels pain. want to see proof?
http://www.silentscream.org/video1.htm
If you’d been smart enough to click on the complete link you’d have managed not to make a fool of yourself again Kahn:
That easy enough for you? Nice use of profanity also. Shows what a classy piece of work you are.
I guess we could say conscience is what we perceive in the here and now.
–Jeremiah–
More like, just being aware.
Yeah, you don’t care, and I guess you’re going to vote for John ‘Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran’ McCain. Who cares if he takes foreign policy pointers from someone who explicitly yearns for armageddon on earth. No big deal as long as you can keep ranting and ranting and ranting about abortion like a broken record.
But he didn’t bomb Iran and abortion happened today and will happen tomorrow. That’s reality. Hagee is a crank. But abortion is murder. EVEN YOUR definition backs up the claim that at least some current abortions are murder. That doesn’t make you mad? Little babies brains being sucked out? Man, you guys are cold hearted.
Here is the whole link, you should have posted:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501%28c%29 It may not show up either. Only half of your link is live. OK? Asshole?
And when you choose to insult me, I get to insult you anyway I want to. Is asshole profanity? I can easily imaging your face looking like a wrinkled hole spouting crap. YOU started the insult war. I will answer any insult post you make in kind. You started it. Asshole.
What is profanity? Not getting prudish on me, are you? I mean, thats a pretty petty move for someone who is willing to let babies that even he admits are human beings get murdered. Isn’t it?
By the way, I cede your point on the 501c status. BUT, I disagree with the very concept of changing tax status based upon speech. That section of wikipedia is light on info about unions – aren’t dues ALSO deductible?
Meanwhile, no I don’t care about Hagee. And you don’t really care either – do you?
Hey look, my link works! Yours doesn’t!
Note – no insult as this isn’t in reply to an insult post. Get it?
Kahn,
Guess what? This is not a thread about abortion. There have been threads about abortion. This is not one of those. If it had been a thread about abortion, the smart money would have predicted that the word abortion would have appeared in Mark’s title or in the text of his post. It didn’t.
The word didn’t appear until you injected it in Comment # 14. The topic is not even John Hagee’s views except that John McCain would have been obliged by McCain’s own previous statements to repudiate Hagee’s endorsement if it weren’t for the Senator’s need to engage in political pandering.
(Must avoid topic of Senator John McCain’s hypocrisy at all costs…must avoid topic of Senator John McCain’s hypocrisy at all costs…must avoid topic of Senator John McCain’s hypocrisy at all costs…write about something else…anything…must avoid topic of Senator John McCain’s hypocrisy at all costs…)
southerner, about your moniker. Not really from the south are you? I usually only encounter such arrogant rudeness in the North East.
Which is by the way, where I grew up. Right in the heart of lemming minded liberal western Massachusetts. Hammers and sickles painted on the walls. Anti-Columbus Day rallies. I even argued with Viet Nam Vets Against the War John Kerry when he came to our school to speak.
It’s all militant lesbians there now. Liberal utopia, I guess.
Diana, I have only one thing to say about that…. DUH!
I’m just explaining to you, to you Diana Powe why I don’t care about Hagee’s support for John McCain. I’m not supporting Hagee. I don’t like Hagee. I never even heard of Hagee before today.
It’s just that I know that John McCain opposes the organized mass murder called abortion and Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama do not. Now associating with a wacko is bad. But supporting murder is worse. Do you disagree with that statement? Can you see that since I think abortion is murder, that I actually really believe that, that I might think thats more important than crazy old reverend Hagee?
OK?
Oh, and I am Catholic. Are you? Thats also what the string is about – right?
Diana, why didn’t you join us in decrying Ted Kennedy’s hypocrisy about global warming and the wind mills in the energy thread?
Or did you think to decry Democrat Senator Jim Webb for toting an illegal concealed pistol into the US Capital?
Or did you decry Nancy Pelosi when she included specific exemptions to the minimum wage bill to protect her husbands investments in a San Francisco tuna company?
Or aren’t you outraged that the Democratic Congress hasn’t “ended the war”? I mean, that IS what the election was all about, wasn’t it?
I mean – hIF ypocrisy really gets you mad…..
I know, I know. Anything that is off your point is off THE point. But you’re the one seizing on that hypocrisy word.
If John C. Hagee believes the Roman Catholic Church is ‘The Great Whore,’ an ‘apostate church,’ the ‘anti-Christ,’ and a ‘false cult system.’, I believe this view is wrong. I know many Catholics and they in no way act like whores nor anti-christians nor cultists in any way. The are humble and generous and have great respect for the tenets of the Church. How Hagee has come to the belief that Catholics are whores I do not know, but I can say from my experience growing up in a Catholic family that this is just not the case.
Instead of being honored by Pastor John Hagee’s endorsement, John McCain should reject and denounce Hagee’s support.
Hey look southerner – I’m arguing with Diana without using insults. Something to think about…..
Aitch – Hagee is a wacko. Had you ever heard of him before? I hadn’t.
Kahn,
John Hagee is the pastor of a church with 17,000 members in San Antonio, heads John Hagee Ministries which broadcasts to nearly 100 million homes and has written 17 books including Jerusalem Countdown which contains this gem, ““Most readers will be shocked by the clear record of history linking Adolf Hitler and the Roman Catholic Church in a conspiracy to exterminate the Jews.” He may be a “wacko” as you politely put it, but he has a large audience for his “wackiness”. To answer your question, I grew up in the Roman Catholic Church, but I am now an Anglo-Catholic.
Senator McCain is seeking endorsements so that he can succeed at being the Republican nominee for President. Beyond that, he hopes to be elected President. None of the people you mentioned is running for president or asking for endorsements in a national election.
Abortion isn’t even relevant in the sense that Senator McCain may or may not, depending on whatever serves his political needs best at that particular moment, do more than pay lip service to being pro-life. However, the President of the United States cannot do anything directly about abortion because it is legal in the United States. Congress would have more to do with that, which is where Senator McCain has been for many years. However, his ambition is to be President and that’s what it is…ambition…and whatever it takes to satisfy that ambition.
Diana, if McCain’s abortion stance is irrelevant. Are Hagees positions relevant? You think McCain believes this crap? You think that McCain thins Catholics are whores? Well?
I’m saying that I consider this more important to YOU, a person looking to score political points against John McCain than it is to ME a person who happens to be Catholic and doesn’t care that much about it. I think that difference between McCain and the Democrats on abortion trumps this endorsement to such a degree to make it seem tiny in comparison.
Of course, I also dislike Clinton/Obama for their socialist ideas. And I think Obama is wildly naive on foreign affairs and military affairs. Either that, or he’s lying like some people suggest (see NAFTA controversy). I’m not sure which of those two alternatives is worse.
You’re not going to get me to care about this. Hagee’s crazy theories are no worse than leftist beliefs about 9/11. I doubt anyone would turn down money from Rosie O’Donnell or any of the left wing crowd. That doesn’t mean they believe that the government blew up the World Trade Center.
Kahn,
Your recent posts sound crazed. Take it easy, you sound completely ridiculous. You’ve lost all arguments on this forum today, I know that sucks but hey, just let it go. It’s not your fault for losing them, that will tend to happen when you are on the wrong side of every issue and encounter well informed people who correct you.
And by the way, donations to a union are not tax deductible while unoin dues (rightly) are. They are categorized as a work expense.
Kahn,
Check. Senator McCain seeks out and celebrates an opportunity to be a hypocrite which casts further doubt on any of his positions (which he has been known to cast aside at any point). You are okay with that. Got it.
southerner – I still don’t care about Hagee as I believe that the two leading Democrats support organized murder. I got you to define when YOU though life began. In doing so, you agreed that by your definitions some current abortions are murder. But since you are not willing to condemn those murders, you must condone them. Using the logic you apply to McCain-Hagee.
If Unions support a candidate, then their members dues should be made non-deductible. So THERE we have a type of organization that is similar to churches but that is allowed to engage in politics without threat to tax status. So, just how did you “win” that argument?
Your calling me names does not make you right.
And my post worked because I know how to do it, and yours didn’t. Though you insulted me for not being able to use your broken link.
And I’ll stand my experience and education up to yours any day. I’ll bet I was right about you being from the northeast also.
Diana, seeks out and celebrates an opportunity to be a hypocrite? Nope – I didn’t bother parsing that language earlier because it is so partisan. You are a heavily biased person seeking to score political points and thats all.
By the way, what about those hypocritical Democrats I listed above. Will you criticize any of them?
Kennedy for killing windmills?
Pelosi for exempting her husbands company fro minimum wage laws?
Webb for packing a gun into DC?
The whole Democrat controlled Congress for being in Iraq a year and a month after assuming control?