Seems that a liberal can’t crawl enough before it:
ROME, FEB. 27, 2008 (Zenit.org).- Senator Barack Obama’s claim that it was a “mistake” to vote in favor of an attempt to save the life of Florida woman Terri Schiavo is a statement that “dismisses life,” said her brother.
Bobby Schindler, the executive director of the Terri Schindler Schiavo Foundation, told ZENIT today that the senator’s comment “dismisses life in favor of death.” Schindler is in Rome to participate in the Pontifical Academy for Life’s congress titled “Close By the Incurable Sick Person and the Dying: Scientific and Ethical Aspects.”
Schindler also received an award today on behalf of his parents, Robert and Mary Schindler, from the Italian Movement For Life and Science and the association Life Rome for the couple’s efforts to fight on behalf of their daughter’s life, whose death was induced by the court-ordered removal of her feeding tube in 2005…
…During a presidential debate in Cleveland, Ohio, on Tuesday with Senator Hillary Clinton, Obama said of his vote in favor of the attempt to save Schiavo’s life: “It was not something I was comfortable with, but it was not something that I stood on the floor and stopped.
“And I think that was a mistake, and I think the American people understood that that was a mistake. As a constitutional law professor I knew better. I think that’s an example of inaction, and sometimes that can be as costly as action.”
Given the number of times Obama has votes “present” or failed to vote at all, I can’t see where he think that “inaction” is a bad thing. For all of Obama’s rhetoric about hope all I can see in him now is the spindly, decayed finger of despair – a hideous malformation of hope, which has twisted itself into being the advocate of hopelessness – thus the utter degradation of modern liberalism.
Contrast this nauseating sell-out of basic human decency to John McCain’s views:
There is no greater nobility than to sacrifice for a great cause and no cause greater than protection of human dignity. Decency, human compassion, self-sacrifice and the defense of innocent life are at the core of John McCain’s value system and will be the guiding principles of a McCain Presidency.
If you are pro-life, there is only one person to vote for in November.
Blogs For Victory 
Magnum,
Your obtusness is on a very high level today – my point here is that if you are pro-life, there is only one person to vote for…not that everyone must vote on this one issue.
If you’re going to make monumentally foolish comments, please go over to Daily Kos where they won’t stick out like a sore thumb.
Kipling,
Ok, at what magical point does the embryo become a human being? And would you agree to a ban on abortion once that point is reached?
You, no doubt, will not recognise how insane your views are – at least not at first; hopefully, with the grace of God, you will finally understand that, hey, if its alive at (say) 100 days into the pregnancy, then it simply must have been alive at 99 days, and 98 days, and so forth…
CeCe – don’t count the god Reagan amongst those elected by social (not) “concervatives” cause he was pro-choice & moderate on many social issues.
course he also knew how to balance a budget, shrink the fed govt, keep outta states rights issues (marrage, abortion, drivers licenses)…all things BIG govt socials don’t care about.
hey, is that a box of snakes on that back bench?
i didn’t say it wasn’t ‘alive’ – assuredly an embryo is. So are insects , flowers, bacteria culture etc. What I said was that blastocyte is not the same as a baby. That I stand by – if you are arguing that a few celled organism has as much constitutional rights, consciousness, etc then you are the one that is truly insane.
Can I define the moment when it becomes ‘human’. Of course not – nor more than I can give a precise moment when a human becomes brain dead. But because we cannot answer such questions (yet at least) does not mean that we should take the utterly ridiculous position that a few celled organism is a human being.
Why stop there? Why not every egg? Every sperm? Lets go arrest those women for not getting pregnant constantly from the time that they become fertile till menopause in that case. That is the logical conclusion of your insanity after all
It is pretty silly to take a position that life is precious just because people are religious. Thats a desparate move.
Its also pretty silly how TS’s husband finally “remembered” that Terry didnt want to live that way….after the money was running out. As long as all that money lasted, he could keep the lawyers paid and spend spend spend.
Once it was gone, the real daylight started to shine.
There are a lot of silly things in this blog.
So in reality, if it is religion that defines the value of life, it only does so through the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
So help me God.
So when are you going to write up John McCain was against it as well?
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2007/may/07052511.html
“Can I define the moment when it becomes ‘human’. Of course not – nor more than I can give a precise moment when a human becomes brain dead”
Thats spliting hairs isnt it.
The second the first cells divide, it is a living human being as long as the two cells that created it came from human beings.
The different stages it goes through does not change that fact. It was concived with human cells, it will remain human until it is dead.
“conservatism is all about adhering to truth…the truth is, we must not abort; we must not have same sex marriage…”
This is not Truth, this is Opinion and personal Belief.
Standing for a tax cut to limit government but fighting for government to infringe on a persons personal choice on who they want to marry; then fighting against government regulation for fire arms, is Hypocritical Mark.
But the constitution… 2nd amendment… I say 2nd amendment… Convenient how the constitution only applies if it coincides with your beliefs.
Well, Mark,
Those views are not just mine. the Citizens of this nation put abortion in the bottom single digits (like 2-5% ) in importance when they decide to vote. Their top choices are the Economy, War and Education. A persons values etc don’t even get out of the high single digits.
Ohio, Reagan absolutely was elected by social conservatives and ran specifically as a pro-life president. I don’t know what Reagan you may have voted for, but that is the one I voted for. How you can assume I don’t care about states rights is really amazing. I never even intimated that. Protection of human life is a legitimate function of the federal government. Your reference to box of snakes????
33. Magnum Serpentine | February 29th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Well, Mark,
Those views are not just mine. the Citizens of this nation put abortion in the bottom single digits (like 2-5%
ooooo
thats a lot of pig slop. the msm did it.
CeCe – STATES issue licenses; medical, marrage, drivers, etc.
the fed govt has NO BUSINESS IN THESE AREAS.
read the 10th admendment please.
then come back & we’ll discuss actual, true conservatism across many, many areas not just what single issue “social conservatives” falsely believe it to be.
Oh please, the Shiavo case was disgusting to me.
Not too long before that went down my mother was in a coma for three months. Her brainwaves deteriorated to the point where the doctors told us with confidence that even if she were to wake up from her coma she would not be the person we knew as our mother, or wife in my father’s case, or sister to her siblings, or daughter to her suviving parents.
My father made the desicion finally to pull the plug and she slowly passed away over the span of two weeks. Her body was given the choice to continue to fight the infection or go peacefully. Her brain had no choice, it would not recover and she would not be happy. I knew she didn’t want to be like that and honestly I don’t know many people who would. I wouldn’t either.
I am of course a fan of science and medical advancement but we can only play God for so long before the body just gives in. We are living beings and when our bodies and minds have no life left it is only moral and respectful to that life to let nature take it’s course.
What the government did in stepping in was immoral and completely overstepping their bounds.
To them it was about life.
To everyone else it looked more like a political stunt.
Either way, it was wrong. I loved my mother and was very happy to see my father decide to let her pass. She was tired, her body beat down. I couldn’t be content with her being a shell of the woman I used to know. Needing people to change her and feed her and wash her. Watching my father suffer through it just like Shiavo’s husband did.
And think about what all you wh supported her being kept alive did to her poor husband? My GOD. It’s the most horrible thing a husband has to do let alone having the entire country telling him what to do even if it goes against what his heart tells him to do and what nature is begging for.
One of the most shameful things that our federal government has ever done.
Just awful.
I know the urge is strong, but conservatives simply must fight the temptation to peek into peoples’ bedroom, and hospital windows. You believe the Government should interject itself into every facet of our private lives; big brother know best and all that, but you’re wrong on this. The American public has grown weary of the conservative issues of gay marriage, abortion, and most particularly, the Terri Schiavo-grand-standing-debacle. These social issues have cracked the Republican Party, cost you the congress in 2006, and will cost you the White House in November. Wake up.
“If you are pro-life, there is only one person to vote for in November”
Huckabee is still by far the best candidate out there, that has a pro-life record to prove what he says. His record on 2nd amendment and many other issues is far superior to McCain’s. Mike’s record is impressive enough to motivate me to get out there and tear down Obama signs, get involved and really get fired up and excited about the 2008 election. McCain’s record on alot of issues important to me, is rather half-a$$,
This race is like someone wanting to buy a Harley FLH or Heritage Softail and getting on the “straight talk express” is like getting overexcited and running out buying a moped or an old 1981 Honda CB 500. Your just not going to be happy with it.
Mike is the Real Deal on alot of the important issues.
I’m trying to find things about McCain I like and can relate with, It just not too easy. Hopefully Mike can crank out a win in Texas and force his way on the ballot.
Some assembly, you’ve never seen me argue against gay marriage. I don’t care if people marry trees.
But could you please tell me on what day of a pregnancy and at what hour a fetus ceases being part of the mothers body and becomes a distinctly different person. Please be specific. And prove it.
kipling, the autopsy showed that while the part of Terri Schaivo’s brain that controlled things like communication was badly damaged, the part that controls comprehension was largely intact.
This—to use a phrase that Libs seem to think is compelling—“is consistent” with her frantic objections to having her feeding tube removed. Her nurses felt she was aware of the implications of having the tube removed, and she fought violently when they tried to take it away.
She showed comprehension of many things—she could tell the difference between water and orange juice, for example, and could express her preference for orange juice. Her nurses said she could not only swallow jello, but they had seen patients who were allowed to receive therapy progress in their ability to eat and swallow when they had been less able than Terri to suck on a washcloth dipped in liquid, or to swallow jello.
The primary argument against killing Terri Schiavo was that she had been denied all forms of therapy, even the simplest range of motion exercises designed to keep her limbs from painfully contracting.
And the claim that her brain had “liquified” was fully bogus, an invention by a liberal television talk show host.
You people insist on quoting your Liberal gurus as if they really are accurate or correct, when in fact they are just like you, cherry-picking facts to find whatever they can to support their preconceived positions and discarding whatever does not.
The goal, regarding Schiavo, was to give her the full protection which should have been hers under the law, which included a new hearing with new evidence, allowing testimony from caregivers and girlfriends of Terris’ husband which had not been admitted before, and giving her the chance to have therapy to see if she could improve.
Spotted owls and very old trees get more legal protection than Terri Schiavo got. And what was so appalling was the DETERMINATION of so many people that she should be killed. It was absolutely creepy to see these people—some of whom seem to be represented here—-who fought so hard to keep her family from even giving her a chance, who in fact argued FOR killing her. It was ghoulish.
She was not taken off life support. Food is not considered life support. She was starved to death.
Almiranta,
Did you even read what I wrote?
It was a horrible immoral act for the government to get involved in a private matter like this.
Disgusting, and horribly wrong.
You right about her and what she wanted like you knew her, had spoken with her. No one had spoken with her because from what I recall she could really talk.
Water and orange juice? That’s a simple animal instinc: Sugar tastes good, represents a substance that will give quick energy to the body. Water is essential but does not have the preference that something with sugar will for the body.
“right” = “write”
Almiranta
No Almirante, you are very badly mistaken, there was extensive damage to nearly all brain regions, including the cerebral cortex (where those complex functions, like your ‘comprehension’, takes place). What’s more, not only was the cerebral cortex extensively damaged, one critical component for the functioning of the cerebral cortex was completely lost: the large pyramidal neurons. Without those neurons, even a fully intact cortex would be utterly useless. That would be like having an computer with all the internal pieces of hardware intact, but completely stripped of its internal wiring and cables. It would be totally useless.
In Terri’s case, it wasn’t only the ‘cables’, every piece of separate hardware (motherboard, processor, memorybanks, harddrive) was extensively damaged as well.
Almiranta
Again, utterly WRONG. She received that kind of therapy to the very last day, it’s a standard component of palliative care.
You are referring to therapy to ?cure? her. There is no cure for PVS, that’s why it is called Permanent.
Willem,
The “P” stands for “persistent”, not “permanent” – “persistent” because there have been a lot of cases of people in a “persistent vegetative state” waking up and returning to normal.
As for Terri’s care – there you are flat wrong; as soon as Mr. Schaivo got the settlement money, he ceased all therapy designed to help Terri get better and started seeking her death at the earliest possible moment…only after the settlement was done, for instance, did he come out with the “Terri didn’t want to live like this” schtick.
In my view, the likely sequence of events is that Schaivo attempted to off his wife, failed but managed to get her into a coma, and then decided to make a buck off it, and then complete the process of killing her so that he could go on with life with the woman he was shacking up with while supposedly caring for his sick wife.
Almiranta
Oh, My, God. Have you even followed the case? Terri has a Law, especially written for her and only for her, to give her ‘another day in court’. A ‘day in court’ that lasted for almost EIGHT YEARS. The Federal Government even issued subpoenas for her to appear in the Senate!!!!! It was preposterous beyond imagination. The Senate did not act on it because that would have certainly turned this whole mess into a three-ring-circus. The claim that she didn’t have enough chances to ‘get her day in court’, is by far the most ludicrous I have ever seen.
Any ‘new’ evidence WAS reviewed by Judge Greer. It was ‘evidence’ by people who had never seen Terri. They based their ‘evidence’ on news reports and edited video-footage by the Schindlers. The ‘caregivers’ were seeking media attention when the case got national attention and their claims where debunked in a matter of minutes. That is, if you were tuned in to anything other than Fox News.
I felt extremely sorry for the Schindlers: they were abused by a lot of attention whores who turned this family tragedy in such a disgusting spectacle.
Mark, correct, it is persistent, that doesn’t change the meaning of the condition.
‘Waking up’ from a PVS is extremely rare, there are only a few cases know in medical literature. You are more likely to win the jackpot in the lottery twice in a row.
Around the Terri-Spectacle, there were a lot of people who CLAIMED to know someone who had awaken from PVS. A lot of those claims made it into the media. Upon checking though, all those claims turned out to be false. Nobody of them had been clinically diagnosed with PVS. They had been in coma and a lot of them not even that. There is a world of difference between being in a coma and a pvs. I spoke with a lot of people back then who even compared people with severe retardation with PVS. That was beyond absurd.
A couple of months after the settlement, Michael indicated for the first time that treatment for a urinary tract infection should be halted and he entered a Do Not Rescuscitate order. This was done after consultation with his wife’s physician. He rescinded these decisions after the Schindler family objected.
A DNR is not “seeking somebody’s death”, it’s “allowing somebody to die from natural causes”. There is a world of difference between the two. The legal procedure to remove her feeding tube was started TWO years after that settlement. Removing a feeding tube is “seeking somebody’s death”. Or more popular: “pulling the plug”.
This was after 7 years of extensive testing which all came back with the same results (PVS) and after extensive therapies, including experimental ones, that had failed. All of them.
Ever heard of the Five Stages of Grief? It’s not uncommon for humans who have been engaged in a legal battle in similar cases that after winning (or loosing) such a case in court, that the new reality sinks in and is accepted.
With the realisation that her situation had become permanent, or persistent, came also the question, what would Terri have wanted. Terri had the luck that she didn’t only tell her husband. It wasn’t only Michael, there were witnesses present when she told that. All of this was settled in court. And appealed, and appealed, and appealed. For years and years on end. But the Court decided that Terri didn’t want to live like this and that she didn’t want that extremely rare chance of ‘waking up’.
You may not like it, you may decide otherwise for yourself or for your wife. But the Courts found the evidence sufficient.
You can try to impugn Michael’s character all you want but it is totally irrelevant to Terri’s case. The only questions that were relevant were:
1) Is Terri in a PVS? The verdict of the Court was YES after extensive consultation by all sorts of specialists (approved by Michael, by Terri’s Guardians, by the Schindlers). The autopsy proved that all those specialist that had been legally consulted were correct.
2) Did Terri want to live like that? The verdict of the Court was NO.
Only those two questions mattered. No matter how much mud you throw at Michael, it’s completely irrelevant.