Ok, boys and girls, here’s you big chance to just have at it…lefties, you want to endlessly rehash the reasons we went to war? Here’s you thread. RIghties, been burning for the 1,000th opportunity to make lefties look like fools over their views on the war? Here’s the place.
Alternately, you can discuss the continuing Obama saga; why Hillary is suddenly so quiet. Why recent polling shows McCain doing better and better against either part of HillBama. Why President Bush seems in such a fine mood these days. Why commodity prices took a dump the other day and why some have opined that oil prices will start to slide later this year.
Have at it.
Blogs For Victory 
86. Canuckguy | March 20th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Yeah, your right. The Canadian Forces only have 2500 troops on the ground. Along with Nato forces as well as some American units. Have you noticed any effects on the Canadian economy as a result of the American one? I heard some reports of refinery construction being put on hold because of the credit crunch in America. But then your rising dollar also appears to be lowering prices. Just wondering what your take on this situation is.
In any war, it is the victor that accuses and prosecutes the other side for war crimes.
Dennis reread my post. Its says “We can argue about the number of AMERICAN lives saved”. As for the burned up bodies, firebombing cities week after week did not force the Japanese to surrender, they would have fought to the last child. Only after facing total destruction did they surrender (six days after the bombing). And don’t forget, they were warned at the Potsdam Conference. Japan was given an ultimatum threatening “prompt and utter destruction. They ignored the ultimatum. But really, you are just going to continue to blame America so I’m not sure why I’m even bothering.
95. js | March 20th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.
~Barbara Ehrenreich
If you think being a patriot is determined by the number of flags you have, whether you salute cheer or whistle during a song or anthem or wear a lapel pin their is truly no hope for your sir. You make such an uproar over a pin, I’m honestly afraid of what you might think if he accidentally passed gas during one of these events. I mean really man disagree with him on issues like healthcare or iraq or his stance on abortion but call him anti-american because of a lapel pin and he didn’t put his hand of his heart. Get over yourself my friend. Everyone Poops!
js: Funny how that works….you get elected as senate majority leader, and criminal investigations stop dead in thier tracks.
My understanding is that several Abramoff-related investigations are still on-going, and that Abramoff is still getting preferential treatment in return for his continuing to sing like a bird. Is that not right? Said in another way, what evidence do you have that any investigation was stopped dead in its tracks?
And to be perfectly honest, the level of evidence you present (i.e., the word of a convicted felon supporting a pattern of contributions that largely existed before said felon became a player), doesn’t even pass the sniff test. If that’s all it took, just about every congresscritter would be under investigation. You have to do better than that.
Oh jeez, I just realized who I’m trying to reason with. In the words of Rosanne Rosanadanna… never mind.
Rich, I have to weigh your assertions against Admiral William Leahy’s, who was there at the time. He said unequivocally “The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons.”
Later Eisenhower confirmed this, telling Newsweek “the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing.”
Who am I to believe – you, or actual participants in those events?
As for blaming America, there is blame enough to go around. Nobody has clean hands, and that is my understanding of Rev. Wright’s comments.
Today we define terrorism as attacking innocent civilians to achieve political ends. Can you find a way around that description of bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki? They were civilian targets; all major factories in Hiroshima were on the periphery of the city and escaped damage.
The intent was not to bring Japan to surrender – that point already had been reached. Pleas by scientists involved in the Manhattan project to demonstrate the power of the bomb in some uninhabited place were rebuffed. The intent was to inflict large numbers of casualties.
Terror is an unacceptable tactic now; it was just as morally wrong in 1945, as prominent Catholic theologians correctly pointed out long before Rev. Wright came along. Before his death Leo Szilard, the physicist who instigated the Manhattan profect, said that if the Germans had dropped nuclear bombs instead of us, those responsible would have been sentenced to death at Nuremberg.
It is not anti-Americanism that prompts these observations, it is an awareness of the universal nature of morality. It cannot be selectively applied, or any nation be exempted from its demands by political or military expediency. However this is the old-school conservative view on morality, I might add – not the neo-conservative view or the Mark ‘n’ Matt view.
I recommend the article by Mises scholar Ralph Raico (not a liberal by any means) referenced in my earlier post, for a more definitive treatment of this topic.
Whatever happened to flag burning? Is it ok now? What if I burned a gay flag for Jesus? Would that call for a Constitutional Amendment?
What if someone burned an American flag lapel pin? What if someone was still wearing it at the time?
When are they ever going to stop the Nutri-system commercials??
–Jeremiah–
Paging Bill O’Reilly…paging Bill O’Reilly…
From Fox News…
Paging Sean Hannity…paging Sean Hannity…
Dennis, are you still equating Japanese civilians during WWII, civilians being trained to fight, and civilians fueling the imperialist war machine that attacked the U.S. without provocation, to the workers of the trade towers? So it was a coincidence the Japanese surrendered six days after the bombs dropped? Just a coincidence. They were going to surrender anyways. Did not matter that they saw two cities destroyed and had no idea how many more bombs we had?
The Associated Press reported earlier this year that Reid wrote at least four letters helpful to the tribes that had contributed money to his campaign.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/11/abramoff_report_1.html
Funny how that works
the proof is so easy to find, its in the same post, google the reference, yahoo the key words, tear it apart if its a lie
but rico, dont try to goose the chicken before its hatched, facts, not gossip, are what you said I didnt provide, yet, facts, is exactly what I pointed at.
you playin the stooge today?
Geez, Diana, after reading that, aren’t you just absolutely stumped as to why the GOP can’t get the Black vote? It’s a total mystery, lemme tell ya.
Reid Aided Abramoff Clients, Records Show
—–breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8FLR3380&show_article=1
Democratic leader Reid aided Abramoff clients
——-seattletimes.nwsource.com/
html/politics/2002795932_reid10.html
Howard Dean Unwittingly Fingers Sen. Harry Reid in Abramoff Scandal
—–theconservativevoice.com/article/11938.html
During the interview by Fox News Sunday’s Chris Wallace, Dean continued his claim that Democrats who received money from Abramoff’s Indian clients did no favors for those Indian tribes, according to NewsMax.
“Nobody got anything out of the Democrats from Jack Abramoff,” the top Democrat insisted. “No Democrat delivered anything and there’s no accusation and no investigation that any Democrat ever delivered anything to Jack Abramoff. And that’s not true of the Republicans.”
But Wallace wasn’t buying it. He continued his questioning of Dean: “So if we find that there were some Democrats who wrote letters on behalf of some of the Indian tribes that Abramoff represented, then what do you say, sir?”Dean’s response: “That’s a big problem. And those Democrats are in trouble. And they should be in trouble.”
Today’s Washington Post reports that Senate Minority Leader Reid had accepted tens of thousands of dollars from an Abramoff client, the Coushatta Indian tribe, after interceding with Secretary of the Interior Gail Norton over a casino dispute with a rival tribe.
Reid “sent a letter to Norton on March 5, 2002,” the Post said. “The next day, the Coushattas issued a $5,000 check to Reid’s tax-exempt political group, the Searchlight Leadership Fund. A second tribe represented by Abramoff sent an additional $5,000 to Reid’s group. Reid ultimately received more than $66,000 in Abramoff-related donations between 2001 and 2004.”
Cmon ricorun, are you a halfwit now? This IS common knowledge. For cryin out loud, its even in Mark and Matts BOOK you moron.
Rich, you speak of Japanese as if they were one monolithic entity. Felix Morley, constitutional scholar and one of the founders of Human Events, called attention to the “thousands of children trapped in the thirty-three schools that were destroyed” in Hiroshima.
That Truman realized who these victims were is plain from remarks to his cabinet on August 10, explaining his reluctance to drop another bomb: “The thought of wiping out another 100,000 people was too horrible,” he said; he didn’t like the idea of killing “all those kids.”
Major Gen. J.F.C. Fuller, one of the 20th century’s greatest military historians, wrote of the atomic bombings: “Though to save life is laudable, it in no way justifies the employment of means which run counter to every precept of humanity and the customs of war. Should it do so, then, on the pretext of shortening a war and of saving lives, every imaginable atrocity can be justified.”
Rich, I realize you think you’re being patriotic, but now you’re right there with the terrorists, justifying atrocity on the basis of military and/or political expediency.
reality is that facts, not accusations from abramoff, document this whole issue
yet, nobody in the world is investigating reid…and truthfully, this isnt the only skelleton in his closet, the guys a raceteering white collar criminal, and the senate majority leader
that says a lot about AMERICAN VALUES, doesnt it impswitch?
To Some Assembly Required:
–You asked me a question, I shall try to answer. Regarding the Canadian economy and strong dollar: we are doing well because of our mineral and oil production but if mishandled, we can end up with the ‘Dutch disease’, a state where the dollar becomes too strong, exports suffer and manufacturing jobs disappear – to some extent, that has happened already. We are also at risk otherwise, if the USA does spiral into a recession, we will be sucked into the vortex, there is no avoiding that. So the future is not looking rosy up here, we are not immune to what happens down in the USA. Just stating the obvious. I am very concerned about the fate of the economy, I believe the next 6 months will tell the tale. Brace yourself, fasten your seat belts, it’s going to be a bumpy ride.
#114. Canuckguy | March 20th, 2008 at 10:25 pm
At the risk of sounding Arrogant, that is what I thought. As for the next 6 months it really is not looking good especially with Bush still administering bogus economic policies. Am I the only one frustrated when it comes to digging up $30 Billion to bail out a company but theres nothing around to give to home owners about to foreclose?
On the plus side the US has one of the biggest elections in history in November, and Canada has the 2010 winter Olympics. Interesting times.
Dennis,
Its a good thing you weren’t around to influence government policy during WWII. There is no wonder you and your ilk are called defeatocrats.
BTW, Hucklberry is pandering to Obama hoping to be his VP selection, now that he’s figured out that McCain won’t have him.
It’s no wonder that Republican partisans use the juvenile term defeatocrats. They have the imagination of fifth-graders.
Dennis,
But Fuller’s views on the atom bomb were colored by his very correct view of “strategic” bombing – as practised in WWII, it was a complete waste of time and resources…spreading death and destruction to no discernable purpose. To Fuller, the atom bomb was just a quicker means of what was done to Dresden.
Should the atom bomb have been dropped? To the men in charge at the time, it seemed like the proper thing to do and we can only judge them by the facts which were in their possession when they made their decision – no going back afterwards and condemning them based on things they didn’t know. At the time the decision was made, the immediate prospect was 18 more months of war with Japan, including what promised to be a very bloody invasion of Japanese home islands. There were military opinions to the contrary, but in a war where taking the optimistic view had repeatedly led to disaster, prudence dictated adherence to the more negative view of things.
We know now that the Japanese government was willing to surrender provided assurances were given that Hirohito and his favored retainers would not be brought up on war crimes charges – Truman didn’t know this…all he had in hand was a Japanese rejection of unconditional surrender, when that was the express policy of the United States since 1943. Nuance was in short supply in 1945 – especially given the fact that the Japanese had proved to be a savage foe – a nation which deliberately raped allied nurses to death in order to demoralise allied soldiers was a nation viewed, by 1945, as something less than human.
Downed Navy pilots were beheaded or tied with chains and thrown into the sea; Chinese civilians were tied up and used for bayonet practice; Philipino children had their eyes poked out and smeared on the wall like jelly…while the Japanese never thought up an Auschwitz, their incredible brutality throughout the war had raised the most implacable hatred amongst their foes. Dropping an atomic bomb on them rather than bothering to fight them on the ground seemed, in light of what was known, as the best option.
Yes, Mark, and nuance was also in short supply before the US invasion of Iraq in 2003, when Saddam offered to go into exile and essentially leave the whole country of Iraq open to the US.
But no, Mr. Bush had to have his war. And instead of what good might actually have been accomplished in Iraq, we now have this train wreck, with hundreds of thousands of human lives lost, bleeding us billions of dollars every week.
And whereas you defend this, I say No; there were better choices clearly offered, but they were not taken. As in 1945, when better choices were available as well. You claim nobody knew the Japanese would surrender – as I’m sure you claim the intelligence available forced Mr. Bush’s hand into this war.
I have to reject your assertions, both on the grounds that you have been patently dishonest in your characterizations of your political opponents, and that the facts of record refute you. Like Rich, you’re right there with the terrorists, justifying atrocity on the basis of military and/or political expediency.
Hindsight is easy to manipulate.
Dennis proves that.
His head is full of rhetoric and propganda from white supremacists and green tree huggers.
For the most part, its much easire for his type to grasp on to conspiracy theories and fantasy than it is for him to grasp the whole truth, and conclude that the taking of human lives in Japan was done for cause, and America has been and will be heralded for thier efforts by most nations in the world.
Conspiracy theories dont prove anything. Facts, and nothing but facts, prove the truth, and that is what Dennis does not have.