I wonder how any real liberal could vote for Obama without compromising their core values. After all, he has kept Gitmo open and will proceed with military tribunals, which according to liberals only serves to create more terrorism. He has assassinated a US citizen overseas without so much as a warrant, a clear violation of civil rights. He has invaded, and called for regime change in a sovereign country that posed no imminent threat to the US. He has strengthened the Patriot Act which is again, according to liberal orthodoxy, is a civil rights violation. He keeps close company with CEO Jeffrey Immelt, a mega rich corporate icon who paid no taxes in 2010, and he takes money from George Kaiser and George Soros, two mega rich people who benefit from Obama’s policies. And on top of that, Obama has done nothing to help Federal employees, who have no collective bargaining rights.
Any liberal that votes for Obama is a hypocrite. Period.
coryOctober 3, 2011 / 1:07 pm
We justify it the same way that a lot of conservatives would have justified voting for George W. Bush. For some of your concerns, there are mitigating factors. For others (including some that I find problematic that you did not even bring up), there are not. Ultimately, however, our first-past-the-post voting system doesn’t give me the flexibility to cast a worthwhile vote for another candidate that I like better. I am sure a large number of Conservatives feel the same way in a whole lot of races.
I’m all for something like an instant automatic runoff system. If we can get one of those going before the 2012 election, I doubt I’d pick Obama as my first choice.
J. R. BabcockOctober 3, 2011 / 1:24 pm
I doubt a lot of people are going to pick Obama again.
neocon1October 3, 2011 / 3:04 pm
corky
booooosh = stuck on stupid.
BodieOctober 3, 2011 / 1:55 pm
Comment intended for Media Matters deleted//Moderator
neocon1October 3, 2011 / 2:52 pm
boobie
who said that?
actually he is a radical marxist, muslim, usurper…..
BodieOctober 3, 2011 / 4:42 pm
Comment intended for Huffington Post deleted//Moderator
neocon1October 3, 2011 / 9:35 am
Calif. Gov. Bans Local Municipalities from Banning Circumcisions
ONLY in Kalifornia would something like this have to happen.
left wing fruits and nuts.
touchstoneOctober 3, 2011 / 9:59 am
What isn’t fruits and nuts is flakes
touchstoneOctober 3, 2011 / 10:01 am
Good for the gov not allowing local munipalities to ban this procedure
Civil rights activist and former presidential candidate Jesse Jackson warns that the American economy resembles nothing so much as the Titanic, and if President Obama and Congress doesn’t do something soon, America’s streets could easily explode in civil unrest.
Jackson warned in a Newsmax interview that New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg might have a point when he predicted rioting on the streets.
“There is real tension in the streets because people are becoming so desperate,” he said. “We’re really on the edge of an explosion.”
But then ol’ Jesse, true to liberal form, says this:
Jackson said it is time to revisit President Lyndon Johnson’s war on poverty, targeting jobs to the most needy areas.
Yeah, that ol’ War on Poverty worked so well in the past. Let’s dust it off and try it again. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me 38 times — that’s beyond brain-dead.
neocon1October 3, 2011 / 10:20 am
spook
everyone from the union thug bosses to van jones, michael moore, calypso louie, the NBPP have been warning of violence in Americas streets.
Now they are calling for days of rage in many large citys.
The commies are on the move and have their man in place……..LOCK N LOAD it is going to be an interesting next few years.
The flash mobs have been tested and are in place for massive trouble when the GOP/TEA party *STEALS* the next election.
RetiredSpookOctober 3, 2011 / 10:28 am
I’m not worried; are you?
BTW, how did you like Ann Barnhardt’s pink Colt M4?
neocon1October 3, 2011 / 10:36 am
Van Jones Warns America: ‘Hold on to Your Seats’ Because the ‘Progressive Fight Back’ Is Coming in October
Will Barack Obama condemn Joe Biden and Jimmy Hoffa for calling Republicans ‘barbarians’ and ‘son of a bitches’
Hoffa’s call to arms reaches Seattle Washington’s Longshoremen first
Hoffa On Tea Party: ‘Let’s Take These Sons Of Bitches Out!’
Millionaire Michael Moore Threatens Violence Against Rich (Video)
Roseanne: Rich Should Be Beheaded If They Don’t Give Up Wealth
They are telling us who they are and what they well bring.
neocon1October 3, 2011 / 10:46 am
Spook
Not in the least bit.
Pink M-14? no
I have seen pink AR-15’s
wouldnt own either, though the Princess has shown interest in a Pink semi auto pistol a .380 I believe……..
RetiredSpookOctober 3, 2011 / 12:37 pm
I have seen pink AR-15′s
Did you get my email with the link to Ann’s blog? Big photo of her pink AR-15 (which she also identifies as a Colt M4). Having never owned one, pink or otherwise, I wouldn’t know the difference. To me it looked pretty much like this except pink.
Leo, couldn’t get your Tark link to work, found this one. Let’s see if mine works.
Leonard L'FarteOctober 3, 2011 / 1:57 pm
Count, your’s works. Not sure what happened to mine.
Thomasg0102October 3, 2011 / 4:03 pm
Actually,
in baseball and NBA basketball, rookies and players with less than a certain amount of service time get paid a certain amount regardless of talent.
The NFL is the only league in the world where the contracts are not guaranteed if a player is hurt or cut.
coryOctober 3, 2011 / 4:44 pm
Comparing NFL players to school teachers is a joke. Payton Manning made about $28 million last season between salary and endorsements. He’ll make more in a couple of seasons than a teacher would in a 40 year career.
It seems like just a quantitative difference, but it is so large it actually turns out to be qualitative. To actually be a fair analogy, one would have to assume that in the hypothetical NFL, overall wages for players would be pushed, on average, way up. People would still strive to become NFL players (and would have even more reason to do so), they just might not try as hard once they got there.
The concern with teachers, on the other hand, is that the jobs need to be ballpark competitive with private sector jobs requiring the same level of education. If you don’t want to compete directly on salary (because you want to constrain your government’s budget as much as possible), you can hand out other incentives, like job security and benefits. If you start trying to weed out “bad” teachers too heavily, you’ll make people with an inclination towards teaching reconsider and take some other job that requires a bachelor’s degree and pays more.
The question, then, is whether our education system is hurting more from a lack of talent or a lack of effort. I tend to think that the fact that teacher salaries are overall low for their education levels indicates that we probably already aren’t pulling in the best available talent for the job.
I do believe there is some merit to trying to reform our education system rather than just throwing more money at it, but I also am dubious of any claim that money has nothing to do with it.
Count d'HaricotsOctober 3, 2011 / 6:47 pm
I have to agree that comparing professional sports to other professions is absurd on its face. But the premise that teacher pay should be somehow predicated on quantifiable results is anything but absurd.
In cory’s example the NFL players in-the-trenches don’t make nearly what the star players do, and this is true, but neither do teachers in public elementary school make anywhere near what a tenured professor at a prestigious university does. The average NFL player makes around $2.0M with the lowest players making around $450,000 and the highest averages are around $10.0M to $23.0M (and before you get into “endorsements” remember that isn’t compensation from the NFL employer.) The average grade school teacher makes $60.0K with the higher paid professors making upwards of $500.0k to $800.0k, coaches making $2.0M to $3.0M and Deans and Chairs making $1.0M and more in base salary. And there’s a lot more of the half million $ professors than there are $20.0M quarterbacks.
I also take exception with the idea that salaries must be competitive based on educational requirements. According the bls; the median earnings with a Bachelor’s degree in the US is around $60.0K, a Master’s around $80.0K. Depending on your field, these are the required degrees for teaching credentials (in some cases credentials may be obtained without a post-secondary education) and these are the income expectations for teachers. Notwithstanding that teachers do not work a 40 hour week nor do they work a 52 week schedule for the same pay. Statistically, the unions prefer you consider only primary and secondary educators and not post-secondary or alternative adult education teachers when looking at the pay to degree ratio.
If teachers do work the additional hours per week and the additional weeks per year they make significantly more than their non-teacher counterparts. When benefits are added, teachers make more for less work with little or no direct accountability for success or failure to teach.
coryOctober 4, 2011 / 12:51 am
I may just be lost, but I can never figure out where people get their numbers for how much teachers get paid. The BLS says “Median annual wages of kindergarten, elementary, middle, and secondary school teachers ranged from $47,100 to $51,180 in May 2008”, and that’s also including private school teachers (I can’t find, offhand, how private school teachers fare salary-wise compared to their private school counterparts, other than “Although private school teachers generally earn less than public school teachers, they may be given other benefits, such as free or subsidized housing.”).
I also can’t find any reliable source regarding claims related to number of hours worked, either. What is your source for the claim that teachers do not work 40 hour weeks?
Count d'HaricotsOctober 4, 2011 / 10:47 am
cory,
Personal experience as a California public school teacher.
I currently work for a state run university and part of my job is analysis of wages, salaries, initial complements and other remunerations, as well as compensation equities public/private.
BodieOctober 3, 2011 / 1:58 pm
Comment intended for Daily KOS deleted//Moderator
neocon1October 3, 2011 / 2:35 pm
boobie
Ha ha ha ha ha
try the huff po they like lefty LOONS also.
Green Mountain BoyOctober 3, 2011 / 2:52 pm
Good day everyone. Hope you had a good weekend. 🙂 Looks like the Shadow has been busy again. Keep up the good work. 🙂
neocon1October 3, 2011 / 3:05 pm
GMB
yup
thomasg0102October 3, 2011 / 4:07 pm
typical right winger. moderate, suppress, and repress free speech until your heart is content!
it must be nice to live on a farm isolated from reality huh Green?
Green Mountain BoyOctober 3, 2011 / 6:46 pm
Yup it is sure is. There are tons of places for you to spew your free speech. Places where you will be welcome. Places where conservatives are banned for just asking questions that go against your ideology.
Chuckles called he wants you back. He is missing something.
ClusterOctober 3, 2011 / 3:14 pm
What’s wrong Bodie? All of your comments are being deleted – why is that? You’ve always been the model of civility so I can’t imagine why your posts are begin scrubbed.
BodieOctober 3, 2011 / 4:40 pm
Comment intended for Democratic Underground deleted//Moderator.
ClusterOctober 3, 2011 / 4:49 pm
Thank you moderator for protecting me from the real world.
BodieOctober 4, 2011 / 6:05 pm
Give it up Bodie. You’re going to wear out the cut and paste function on your computer.//Moderator
WallaceOctober 6, 2011 / 5:22 pm
“Thank you moderator for protecting me from the real world.”
You clearly need it. But hey, so does every single other conservative here, according to the moderator. Did you know the moderator thinks you’re all too stupid and/or too cowardly to answer the question as to why you support habitual criminals who do business with state sponsors of terrorism? Because she does. I would be interested to hear your response, though, considering that you allege to oppose crime and terrorism.
ClusterOctober 3, 2011 / 3:15 pm
Bodie – why do you support a President that assassinates American citizens over seas? That just doesn’t seem like it fits with your human rights positions.
thomasg0102October 3, 2011 / 4:06 pm
Cluster,
did you support the decision?
and since when do you have to agree with everything about a President or his policies to support him?
I am sure you voted for Bush both times, and I am also sure you didn’t support all of his policies…so what gives?
ClusterOctober 3, 2011 / 4:44 pm
I am just surprised that liberals are willing to compromise their core principles in an effort to keep this guy in office.
jsOctober 3, 2011 / 4:44 pm
oh, contrair senior; there is a ultra secret document that the mr usurping president has that said its ok to kill an american in yemen without a trial…
so it goes…you nor i will never see it unless we get an epic security clearance…
Green Mountain BoyOctober 3, 2011 / 3:26 pm
Why do people like Bodie ssupport bams. I could go into a multi paragraph answer but you know me. I like to keep things simple.
Feelings, nothing more than feelings. 😛
neocon1October 3, 2011 / 3:37 pm
GMB
Losers that need the nanny state to wipe their noses.
Losers who sit on the porch, smoke dope, drink beer on OPM
Losers who cant make it without a union.
Losers who cant be hired, trained, promoted without being pushed to the front of the line.
Losers who think exits are entrances.
dbschmidtOctober 3, 2011 / 4:16 pm
How about we ask the resident liberals, progressives, trolls, and flapping monkey brigade to define their point of view. Not what policies they want to spend other people’s money on or why we need cradle to grave everything but rather what makes them belief they are entitled to take my money and spend it on such crap. Not that “it’s the right thing to do” as a reason for needing single payer health care from the time we escape the abortionist’s knife till the day we die but where you find this Constitutional and why you find it okay to take my money and pay for someone that has decided not to lift a finger towards their own good.
A couple of points to remember—this is the land of equal opportunity ~ not equal outcome & it is freedom of religion not freedom from religion. The streets were not lined with the sick, poor, and dying prior to 1960. The skies were not aflame due to lack of regulations. The water was drinkable, the fish caught could be eaten and everyone was expected to not only earn their own keep but to give to something greater. I am not saying that there should be no laws or regulations but they should be simple, straightforward, have real teeth, and be enforced rather than compound the problems by writing even more.
The only thing that has changed is the policies driven by progressives and liberals over the years into what is now started as the “Days of Rage”; however, those folks can hardly complete a sentence let alone expound on why they are even there short of regurgitating their “Masters” words. Unlike Spook, I see Pres. Wilson as the grand master when he started things that he knowingly would subvert the Constitution like instituting case law v. Constitutional law, segregating the Federal government, pushing the change in the 17th Amendment removing State selection of Senators (one of the major pillars of the Constitution), and many more “little” subversive moves.
So Libs–What is, and why is, Socialism so great and then tell me where you want to take this country because Socialism is only a stepping stone towards Marxism / Communism. What is your perceived endgame?
RetiredSpookOctober 3, 2011 / 4:29 pm
Unlike Spook, I see Pres. Wilson as the grand master when he started things that he knowingly would subvert the Constitution
DB, I would not disagree with that. Teddy Roosevelt may have been the first Progressive president, but Wilson was the one who began implementing the Progressive agenda. The fact that Wilson is often cited as the 6th or 7th greatest president really tells you just who has had the biggest hand in writing (re-writing) history during the last century. It’s long past time to push the pendulum back the other way.
dbschmidtOctober 3, 2011 / 4:38 pm
My bad. Actually, it sounds like I agree with you. 😀
neocon1October 3, 2011 / 4:30 pm
Herman Cain
has proven once again not ready for prime time
first kisses muslims azz
now joins Je$$e, al , barry as a race pimp.
These guys just cant get past their pathology and obsession of the color of their skin.
Accusing a man of something that was painted on a rock, on RENTED property in freeking 1983 by some unknown person then covered up as soon as it was pointed out is beyond the pale.
Sorry herman you just LOST any respect I once had for you.
You are just another race baiting hack.
neocon1October 3, 2011 / 4:38 pm
PS
herman, if you hate the ni**er word so badly take it up with
je$$e
Al
eddy murphy
diana ross
chris rock
dave chappel
redd foxx
sinbad
james earl jones
EVERY RAP “singer”
dozens of sit coms
dozens of movies
EVERY high school/Jr high school black kid
take the LOG out of your eye before commenting on the SPECK in anthers.
VERY DISAPPOINTING but not surprising
coryOctober 4, 2011 / 1:03 am
The endgame, as it were, is to actually provide that land of equal opportunity that I keep hearing about. There is no equal opportunity if you can determine with a fairly high degree of accuracy what your socio-economic status is going to be when you grow up based solely on how wealthy your parents are. As time progresses, we are seeing income gaps increase and class mobility decrease.
The only way I can come up with to completely alleviate the problem is to enact a 100% estate tax that somehow can’t be dodged and then use the money to raise our children in such a way that they have equal resources. THis would, to say it nicely, be wildly unpopular and probably a bad idea, so instead we have to resort to compromises and partial measures like progressive income taxes and captial gains taxes. It probably isn’t enough to make everything completely fair, but it at least makes sure we’re in the right ball park playing the right game.
neocon1October 4, 2011 / 8:24 am
corky
radical left lunacy
we see how well that worked in the FORMER soviet union, N. Korea, Cuba
what a LOSER, lazy dumbed down ass and OPM.
Count d'HaricotsOctober 4, 2011 / 10:59 am
In spite of what Obama says, the purpose of taxation is not fairness. The purpose of taxation is to raise revenue to operate the government and to to raise that revenue fairly.
It isn’t fair (equitable) for the government to confiscate the wealth earned by one citizen after it has been earned because the beneficiary of that wealth didn’t likewise earn the wealth; if this were “fair” then the government must also confiscate proceeds from life insurance policies.
To make fairness the goal of taxation, the government must confiscate all earnings over a predetermined amount to prevent accumulation of wealth. To make it fair confiscation, the citizens must be forbidden to own more property than their neighbors, more possessions, more education, more children, or more ambition than their neighbor. Like where this is going? I didn’t think so.
coryOctober 4, 2011 / 1:39 pm
“To make fairness the goal of taxation, the government must confiscate all earnings over a predetermined amount to prevent accumulation of wealth.”
You talk like this is some unheard-of obscenity, but if you examine the top marginal tax rates in the 1950s into the 60s, that’s almost exactly what we did. From the entire period from 1950 to 1963, the top tax bracket never dropped below 91% taxation. Those years also happened to involve some of the most explosive economic growth this country has ever seen, despite the fact that once your income got to about $400,000, you basically were not allowed to make more money anymore.
The purpose of taxation is, of course, to raise revenue, but you just said yourself that the revenue needs to be raised fairly. I think putting on blinders and ignoring all of the factors that put people in different stations in life and trying to determine what is fair based on that is absurd. We both agree that you can’t actually use taxation to make the world entirely fair, but we can make some compromises and get it a little closer. If we can’t actually guarantee a level playing field where the poor are poor solely because of their own decisions, how can we dump on them for being poor?
Count d'HaricotsOctober 4, 2011 / 2:21 pm
Cory,
You make my argument for me; the top marginal tax rate after WWII went from 86.45% to 91%; during the same period GDP was stuck between $2.0 & $3.0 Billion where it had been since the beginning of the 20th Century. When that tax rate was lowered to 70% GDP rose to $7.0 Billion. After the Reagan Rate of 28% GDP skyrocketed and since it hasn’t gone above 35% GDP soared to $12.0 Billion.
The citizens earning the highest became quite adept at sheltering their income by moving it off-shore or by investing in such shelters as insurance (You’ll note that Warren Buffett favors raising the top marginal rates and he’s the major shareholder in the Berkshire Hathaway Homestate Insurance Companies).
After tax rates were lowered during the 1980, the US began the largest and longest peacetime expansion of our economy in our history.
Punishing achievement is neither prudent nor profitable.
The “Great Society” and the “New Deal” have both been dramatic failures at social engineering. Every effort the government makes to “level the playing field” has resulted in greater poverty, greater dependence on social welfare and further skewed success to those already accustomed to success.
Taxation can be used to direct social responsibility by taxing undesirable behavior (Freidman) or by taxing commerce the government wishes to control (Jefferson) but it has never been used to successfully raise anyone’s standard of living or level a playing field, unless you’re talking about a bond issue to actually level an athletic field at a public school or university.
“… for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.” (Churchill)
You want to make life fair? Get the government out of it. Build a better mousetrap, get people to invest in your business, hire people to build and sell your mousetrap, and use the proceeds to invest in other businesses.
In addition to the names I mentioned above, you should also read Carnegie on full employment.
coryOctober 4, 2011 / 4:17 pm
I find again that you are quoting numbers but I can’t locate sources that agree with you. The GDP growth rate for 1950-1952 (the timeline for the increasing tax rate) was the highest of the entire century. I’m not sure how I can even have a discussion when your conclusions are based on numbers that, as near as I can tell, are just made up.
neocon1October 4, 2011 / 5:48 pm
corky
48% pay NO federal tax
53% pay only 3% of all taxes……
is that “fair”?
maybe to a non taxpayer Loser like you .
to me it SUCKS!
Count d'HaricotsOctober 4, 2011 / 5:58 pm
cory,
Your failure to understand or follow is hardly my fault.
Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is the indicator of the total output of a country and is not to be confused with GDP growth. GDP growth is calculated based on the output increase or decrease from the previous period and is an indicator of how well or poorly each period is compared with the previous period.
During periods of sustained increases in output, the percentages will be smaller but will be consistently positive as what happened during the 1980s and 1990s.
Try not to confuse the two.
According to the Bureau of Economic Statistics the highest annualized growth in GDP was 1942 ~18.5%; 1941 ~17.1%; 1943 ~16.4%; 1936 ~13.1%; 1934 ~ 10.9%. Growth in 1950 ~8.7%; 1951 ~7.7% & 1952~ 3.8%. In these situations, the period preceding and following were negative or stagnant.
In 1950-1951 defense spending accounted for a 93.1% & 32.9% increase respectively; Korean War. 1941, 1942 & 1943 had defense GDP growth of 440.8%, 265.3% and 62.9% growth; WWII.
Seeing a pattern yet?
These are not sustained growth as we saw in 1980s or 1990s.
coryOctober 5, 2011 / 5:56 pm
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. Yes, I realize that growth rate is different from total GDP. When you say ” GDP was stuck between $2.0 & $3.0 Billion where it had been since the beginning of the 20th Century.” guess what? You are talking about GDP growth rate. I don’t know if you know this, but that’s what growth rate means. Your total GDP grows by some amount from one period to the next. And overall, it was massively positive in the 50s and 60s, despite the fact that it was more volatile.
Are there reasons that using GDP as your one and only measuring stick of the health of economy is not smart? Absolutely, but you were the one that started talking GDP growth rates, not I. You can’t start quoting mitigating factors in my cited time periods unless you also want people to point out that Reagan also massively increased goverment spending during the time period of GDP growth in the 80s. (Why do conservatives love that guy again? Oh right, they don’t actually care at all about small government or anything like that, they just want lower taxes). And what about the early 90s? Did the 40% drop in top marginal tax rates wear off or something? Do you think if we drop it another 40% and give the rich money rather than taxing them, we can trade another decade of growth for even bigger deficits?
jsOctober 3, 2011 / 5:00 pm
isnt it strange…the people who used this back in the 1800’s…never too offense…they used the N word without any issues…until the 60s…by that time…100 years after the civil war and the freedom of all slaves…all of a sudden…the N word can get you sued for millions…because its…insensitive?
so why hasnt anyone been sued for calling whites honkeys, or spic’s…or for calling italians waps or jews kikes….the river flows both ways…no black condemns another black for using the N word either…they jack around a play calling each other the N word…
if the use of slang is only offensive to blacks who were never slaves…why would that race be so absorbed in calling whites honkey, hispanics spic’s…or jews kikes…this whole racial insult thing…is a charade…
neocon1October 3, 2011 / 5:16 pm
js
It is used as a weapon to end any and all debate.
racist, bigot, homophobe……..alinsky 101.
I also watched coverage of the trial on the public channels controlled by the conservative government.
neocon1October 3, 2011 / 6:08 pm
baldork
OJ and the other OJ are both guilty.
Knox is innocent, the guy confessed and was convicted.
she was convicted and released by faulty contaminated DNA.
bardolfOctober 3, 2011 / 6:34 pm
Neoconehead
Well OJ was found innocent based on faulty contaminated DNA.
You obviously don’t read Italian and can’t follow anything about the trial besides what the American press tells you. I on the other hand followed the trial while I was in Italy for a year. Is it because she is white that you think she is innocent?
Go read Ann Coulter to understand something about the trial. By the way, in Europe they believe in OJ’s innocence as much as you believe in Amanda’s innocence and for the same reason. You all just want it to be true.
neocon1October 3, 2011 / 6:50 pm
baldork
BS
OJ was jury nullified PERIOD
the DNA was rock solid.
of course it couldnt have been the liberal .
It never is
neocon1October 3, 2011 / 6:52 pm
Is it because she is white that you think she is innocent?
. You all just want it to be true.
BAM
that didnt take long…what a surprise…..
neocon1October 3, 2011 / 7:01 pm
The prosecution’s case was fatally set back during the appeal when two court-ordered independent experts reviewed the DNA evidence that had been used to link the two to the crime during the first trial.
Prosecutors maintain that Knox’s DNA was found on the handle of a kitchen knife believed to be the murder weapon, and that Kercher’s DNA was found on the blade. They said Sollecito‘s DNA was on the clasp of Kercher’s bra as part of a mix of evidence that also included the victim’s genetic profile.
But the independent review – ordered at the request of the defense, which had always disputed those findings – reached a different conclusion.
The two experts found that police conducting the investigation had made glaring errors in evidence-collecting and that below-standard testing and possible contamination raised doubts over the attribution of DNA traces, both on the blade and on the bra clasp, which was collected from the crime scene 46 days after the murder.
The review was crucial in the case because no motive has emerged and witness testimony was contradictory.
Count d'HaricotsOctober 3, 2011 / 8:03 pm
Are you saying that the PERUGIA Police are so incompetent they couldn’t frame a guilty woman?
Sounds like LAPD.
bardolfOctober 3, 2011 / 10:12 pm
Count
Knox was found guilty. One difference with OJ is at least he didn’t look at a stereotype redneck and say that guy did the crime. Knox did that, claiming a black bartender was to blame. Knox changed her stories 20 times because she is guilty. The Perugia police didn’t jump the fence, didn’t rush to judgement … They did solid police work and Knox was found guilty.
Amanda Knox only won an appeal because of State Department pressure from Hillary Clinton and the Huffpost progressives of the world (like Neoconehead) who can’t imagine a privileged Caucasian youth capable of murder.
It’s the same reason Roman Polanski is free to move around Europe after raping a teenager. In their eyes he can’t be a bad guy if he makes artsy movies.
@Neoconehead – pretend you are not a partisan and explain how a person new to the OJ trial vs. Knox trial could come to the conclusion that he is guilty and she innocent.
Count d'HaricotsOctober 4, 2011 / 11:41 am
Simple; he was found liable for the murders in a court of law, and she was acquitted in a court of law.
He’s in jail, she’s not.
I “obviously” don’t read Italian either, but I do know enough to not trust either the Italian press or the MSM to give fair dispassionate representation of the facts.
I don’t know about her guilt or innocence, but I’m not going to get my knickers in a twist over her.
bardolfOctober 5, 2011 / 3:18 pm
@Count
She was found guilty in her murder trial. OJ was found not guilty in his murder trial.
We’ll see what happens with the process in Italy. Of course you know it isn’t finished with the appeal.
Count d'HaricotsOctober 5, 2011 / 4:20 pm
Convicted of murder?
Oddly enough so was Randall Adams, Earl Washington, Ronald Kitchen, Steven Truscott, Laurence Adams, Ray Krone, Donald Marshall Jr., Kirk Bloodsworth, Michael Morton, in fact; here’s a list “LIST”
RetiredSpookOctober 3, 2011 / 5:53 pm
On a lighter note, the Japanese have introduced an an exciting new bike. It’s even named after our very own Neocon.
Never dreamed poop could get you blazing down the asphalt? Well, now it all comes true as Japan’s biggest toilet maker, TOTO, takes the toilet on the road with its launch of the Toilet Bike Neo, a bike that’s powered entirely by human waste. The bike runs on biogas converted from feces that is harvested directly from the driver — who sits on the bike’s toilet-styled seat.
Just when you thought you had heard everything……….
neocon1October 3, 2011 / 6:05 pm
sure beats this one….
neocon1October 3, 2011 / 5:59 pm
LOL
No more MPG.
now 100 miles per poop = MPP
Green Mountain BoyOctober 3, 2011 / 6:52 pm
I am disappointed in Mr. Cain too. I thought he was better than this. Another bites the dust. That just leaves the two ladies. Sarah and Michelle.
Looks we are stuck with whoever the retug establishment pawns off on unless Sarah gets in. While I am not a fan of any poll numbers at all, Michelle is just way too low in the numbers right now.
neocon1October 3, 2011 / 6:54 pm
GMB
it will be hillary and mcLame redux
Hillary wins.
ClusterOctober 3, 2011 / 6:54 pm
I think Sarah would disappoint you too GMB
neocon1October 3, 2011 / 6:56 pm
The PC police running wild.
Update: ESPN Yanks ‘Monday Night Football’ Open Over Hank Jr‘s ’Hitler’ Comment
“We are extremely disappointed with his comments…”
neocon1October 3, 2011 / 7:10 pm
Cluster
Im underwhelmed by the GOP field my self.
Mostly re runs of losers and rookies. If the knight on the white horse is Christie…..forgetaboutit.
We lowered the bar so low with mcLame every RINO looks half way good.
Im not convinced we need a half way anything. I for one am sick of holding my nose and voting for the charley christs and juan mcLames of the GOP
Count d'HaricotsOctober 3, 2011 / 7:34 pm
Electile Dysfunction neo?
RetiredSpookOctober 3, 2011 / 7:36 pm
I’m willing to cut Cain some slack. Initially there was a lot of misinformation about the rock. I’m guessing Cain didn’t have all the facts when he made his comments on Fox New Sunday. I still like the guy more than any of the others.
Count d'HaricotsOctober 3, 2011 / 7:58 pm
“I’m guessing Cain didn’t have all the facts when he made his comments ”
Doesn’t speak well of Cain as a candidate if he goes off half-cocked, does it?
I like what he stands for but governemnt isn’t business; we need a president more than a CEO.
neocon1October 4, 2011 / 12:40 am
Electile Dysfunction neo?
HUH?
yo vinny, you talkin to meee?
not even maybe… 🙂
Green Mountain BoyOctober 3, 2011 / 7:04 pm
Why is that Cluster? Why would Sarah P. disappoint me?
ClusterOctober 3, 2011 / 7:05 pm
You seem to be easily disappointed
Green Mountain BoyOctober 3, 2011 / 7:09 pm
If you say so Cluster. I should have relized that this wasn’t about Mr. Cain getting on board the race issue. It was about me be too rigid and radical and freakish. Thanks 😛
ClusterOctober 3, 2011 / 8:31 pm
Cain didn’t handle it well, but I am not going to judge him on one incident, and you definitely have thin skin if that disappointed you. I have always been a firm believer that you play the hand that is dealt to you and you don’t whine about it. I despise whiners. If you don;t like the GOP field, then don’t whine about it and go out and do something about it. That goes for you too neo.
neocon1October 4, 2011 / 12:43 am
cluster
No whining here just presenting the facts as I see them, I was for Cain even after the muzzy debacle.
I cant vote for a man who cant get past the color of his skin and sees raaaacism in every woodpile.
Green Mountain BoyOctober 3, 2011 / 8:51 pm
I look at it this way Cluster. Either you are a progressive or you are not. The race bullshit is part of the progressive agenda. You can support that if you want. I will not.
Mr. Cain lept to a conclusion about Mr.Perry that was not factual. Buh bye. Put himself into the same catogory as jessy and al. I will have nothing to do with it. No whinining at all. Either he comes out and apologizes for the knee jerk reaction or he suffers some loss of support.
Almost seems like all this is scripted doesn’t it. The only one not to make a major gaffe is our good progressive friend romney. It’s his turn isn’t it?
He will even probably win the presidency and in the end not do one damn thing about rolling back to a more constitutional form of government that you so cherish.
RetiredSpookOctober 3, 2011 / 11:20 pm
Mr. Cain lept to a conclusion about Mr.Perry that was not factual.
I’m not sure about leaping to a conclusion. He had help from the misleading, and up to the time, definitive article in the WAPO the same day as he made his comments on TV, plus the way Christiana Amanpour phrased the question was very leading as well as far from factual. I agree, though, that Cain should have simply said something like, “I’m not going to comment on this until we know all the facts.”
Like Cluster, I’m not going to judge him on this one incident.
Green Mountain BoyOctober 4, 2011 / 12:03 am
To each thier own Spook. I never expected you too.
neocon1October 4, 2011 / 12:51 am
Spook
his second gaffe, TWO major issues
1. wrong on islam.
2. wrong on race.
I have changed my mind and will not support him, his true “color” has come shining through.
Im going with the Big Guy on this……
RUSH: I’m gonna tell you, this is really disappointing to me. Herman Cain. I liked Herman Cain — like Herman Cain. The Washington Post has it as a Macaca story about Rick Perry. Apparently back when Rick Perry was a Democrat… There’s this woman at the Washington Post who’s written a story that, with traditional journalism, wouldn’t even pass the first review by an editor. But apparently back in the eighties when Perry was a Democrat, he and his dad would go hunting at someplace and there is a rock that had the N-word on it that somebody had painted over.
They’re trying to say that Perry’s a racist, and Herman Cain has jumped in and basically joined that chorus — and it is absurd. It’s painted over and they tried to paint cover it up and then they eventually turned it over so people wouldn’t see it….
So here you have the Washington Post with an unsupported nonstory, and here comes Herman Cain piggybacking on it trying to capitalize on it, essentially letting the mainstream media (in this case, the Washington Post) set the narrative. It’s exactly what I mean. There’s this… I don’t know if you call it a fear or just a mistaken belief that the power in media still exclusively resides in the mainstream media, and it’s those people that you have to get on your side; those people you have to use to get your message out, or what have you, and so that leads to pandering to them.
Cain is doing it in this case. The Republican leadership in both the House and Senate are renowned for doing it throughout all of our lives. Even some Republican presidents have done so.
dennisOctober 4, 2011 / 12:50 am
This fine, day-long open thread on “Blogs for Victory” and nary a single comment on the occupation of Wall Street? You had the chance to lament your lack of choices for a political nominee on the “No Savior” thread, and on the open thread you disregard the biggest story of the week. That about says it for the groupies here.
This is what others are saying, however: “Occupy Wall Street is a tea party with brains. They’re organized, lucid and motivated… They’re smart enough to recognize the nation’s problems aren’t simply about taxes and the deficit…”
dirty doper scumballs…what is there to say?
dumbed down useful idiots dancing to their muslim marxist pied pipers tune.
neocon1October 4, 2011 / 12:57 am
dopeydennis
They’re smart enough to recognize the nation’s problems aren’t simply about taxes and the deficit…
Really???????????
Gee real freeking rocket scientists eh?
lets go smash some windows maaaaaaan. We’ll teach those Fn capitalists pigs.
Green Mountain BoyOctober 4, 2011 / 1:38 am
I wonder if the checked with mommy and daddy to make sure they are not playing the stock market? How they going to buy all micky dees food if mommy and daddy lose all thier money?
jsOctober 4, 2011 / 5:46 am
can you figure out why only mental midgets would gravitate to stupid stories like that stooge?
Green Mountain BoyOctober 4, 2011 / 1:04 am
Neo, you are up late, whats up? You feeling all right.
Dennis, to us fringe type people the occupation of Wall Street by a bunch of smelly people is no story at all. Just par for the course. They won’t accoplish anything and they will leave the place a dump. Just like they did after bams innuaguration.
neocon1October 4, 2011 / 1:06 am
GMB
watched the Rays lose, 😦 and the Bucs win 🙂
work slow for tomorrow so I am up playing.
neocon1October 4, 2011 / 1:08 am
GMB
They won’t accoplish anything and they will leave the place a dump. Just like they did after bams innuaguration.
or the eight million dollars of damage and clean up after the Washington capital occupation by leftist “teacher” union drones and thugs.
neocon1October 4, 2011 / 1:17 am
dennistooge
‘This Is Revolution Not Reform’
— Occupy Wall Street Organizer to ‘Excited’ Al Sharpton:
We Are Anarchists and Revolutionaries,‘
This Is the Beginning of a Revolution in This Country’
There you have it dennistooge, are you a patriot? or a Traitor?
Their “revolution” will be met and crushed, and flushed down the pipe of history with the rest of the SHIITE!!
Green Mountain BoyOctober 4, 2011 / 1:26 am
Neo, As long as you are ok. 🙂 I am up late thinking about ways to agrivate our resident leftys. Then it dawn on me. I exist. Thats aggravating enough. 😛
That and fixing a computer that took a poop earilier today. Yawn
neocon1October 4, 2011 / 1:37 am
GMB
I hate it when that happens…..
neocon1October 4, 2011 / 1:39 am
GMB
wellll now I am going to bed…catch ya tomorrow at the Cain rally…..Oh Wait
LOL
Green Mountain BoyOctober 4, 2011 / 1:45 am
Aren’t they done with there day of rage yet? I mean talk about no truth in advertising here. How long they been there? Can nanny bloomberg start charging rent?
neocon1October 4, 2011 / 8:52 am
Obama’s relations with Dem leaders deteriorating…
WALL STREET PROTESTERS CALL FOR RE-ELECTION OF OBAMA?
Pssssst….hey KID…..STFU
neocon1October 4, 2011 / 9:08 am
Major Democratic Fundraiser at Van Jones ‘Take Back the American Dream Conference’: The American Dream Is Totally About Sharing and Redistributing the Wealth Because Free Houses and HealthCare Are a Right
Psssstttttttt
van……..OVER OUR DEAD BODIES
do in in da hood,
come for my neighborhood you will be met with deadly force.
THIS is a SMALL idea of what is to come VAN
neocon1October 4, 2011 / 9:10 am
Ann Coulter on Wall St. Protest: This is What ‘The Beginning of Totalitarianism’ Looks Like
Blogs For Victory 
I wonder how any real liberal could vote for Obama without compromising their core values. After all, he has kept Gitmo open and will proceed with military tribunals, which according to liberals only serves to create more terrorism. He has assassinated a US citizen overseas without so much as a warrant, a clear violation of civil rights. He has invaded, and called for regime change in a sovereign country that posed no imminent threat to the US. He has strengthened the Patriot Act which is again, according to liberal orthodoxy, is a civil rights violation. He keeps close company with CEO Jeffrey Immelt, a mega rich corporate icon who paid no taxes in 2010, and he takes money from George Kaiser and George Soros, two mega rich people who benefit from Obama’s policies. And on top of that, Obama has done nothing to help Federal employees, who have no collective bargaining rights.
Any liberal that votes for Obama is a hypocrite. Period.
We justify it the same way that a lot of conservatives would have justified voting for George W. Bush. For some of your concerns, there are mitigating factors. For others (including some that I find problematic that you did not even bring up), there are not. Ultimately, however, our first-past-the-post voting system doesn’t give me the flexibility to cast a worthwhile vote for another candidate that I like better. I am sure a large number of Conservatives feel the same way in a whole lot of races.
I’m all for something like an instant automatic runoff system. If we can get one of those going before the 2012 election, I doubt I’d pick Obama as my first choice.
I doubt a lot of people are going to pick Obama again.
corky
booooosh = stuck on stupid.
Comment intended for Media Matters deleted//Moderator
boobie
who said that?
actually he is a radical marxist, muslim, usurper…..
Comment intended for Huffington Post deleted//Moderator
Calif. Gov. Bans Local Municipalities from Banning Circumcisions
ONLY in Kalifornia would something like this have to happen.
left wing fruits and nuts.
What isn’t fruits and nuts is flakes
Good for the gov not allowing local munipalities to ban this procedure
Your have to wonder whether this is just commentary or something a little more malevolent.
But then ol’ Jesse, true to liberal form, says this:
Yeah, that ol’ War on Poverty worked so well in the past. Let’s dust it off and try it again. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me 38 times — that’s beyond brain-dead.
spook
everyone from the union thug bosses to van jones, michael moore, calypso louie, the NBPP have been warning of violence in Americas streets.
Now they are calling for days of rage in many large citys.
The commies are on the move and have their man in place……..LOCK N LOAD it is going to be an interesting next few years.
The flash mobs have been tested and are in place for massive trouble when the GOP/TEA party *STEALS* the next election.
I’m not worried; are you?
BTW, how did you like Ann Barnhardt’s pink Colt M4?
Van Jones Warns America: ‘Hold on to Your Seats’ Because the ‘Progressive Fight Back’ Is Coming in October
Will Barack Obama condemn Joe Biden and Jimmy Hoffa for calling Republicans ‘barbarians’ and ‘son of a bitches’
Hoffa’s call to arms reaches Seattle Washington’s Longshoremen first
Hoffa On Tea Party: ‘Let’s Take These Sons Of Bitches Out!’
Millionaire Michael Moore Threatens Violence Against Rich (Video)
Roseanne: Rich Should Be Beheaded If They Don’t Give Up Wealth
They are telling us who they are and what they well bring.
Spook
Not in the least bit.
Pink M-14? no
I have seen pink AR-15’s
wouldnt own either, though the Princess has shown interest in a Pink semi auto pistol a .380 I believe……..
I have seen pink AR-15′s
Did you get my email with the link to Ann’s blog? Big photo of her pink AR-15 (which she also identifies as a Colt M4). Having never owned one, pink or otherwise, I wouldn’t know the difference. To me it looked pretty much like this except pink.
if you dont have a crisis, CREATE one…
socialism 101…
Interesting article in the WSJ by NFL hall-of-famer Fran Tarkenton.
I wonder if Casper would care to comment.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204226204576601232986845102.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop
Leo, couldn’t get your Tark link to work, found this one. Let’s see if mine works.
Count, your’s works. Not sure what happened to mine.
Actually,
in baseball and NBA basketball, rookies and players with less than a certain amount of service time get paid a certain amount regardless of talent.
The NFL is the only league in the world where the contracts are not guaranteed if a player is hurt or cut.
Comparing NFL players to school teachers is a joke. Payton Manning made about $28 million last season between salary and endorsements. He’ll make more in a couple of seasons than a teacher would in a 40 year career.
It seems like just a quantitative difference, but it is so large it actually turns out to be qualitative. To actually be a fair analogy, one would have to assume that in the hypothetical NFL, overall wages for players would be pushed, on average, way up. People would still strive to become NFL players (and would have even more reason to do so), they just might not try as hard once they got there.
The concern with teachers, on the other hand, is that the jobs need to be ballpark competitive with private sector jobs requiring the same level of education. If you don’t want to compete directly on salary (because you want to constrain your government’s budget as much as possible), you can hand out other incentives, like job security and benefits. If you start trying to weed out “bad” teachers too heavily, you’ll make people with an inclination towards teaching reconsider and take some other job that requires a bachelor’s degree and pays more.
The question, then, is whether our education system is hurting more from a lack of talent or a lack of effort. I tend to think that the fact that teacher salaries are overall low for their education levels indicates that we probably already aren’t pulling in the best available talent for the job.
I do believe there is some merit to trying to reform our education system rather than just throwing more money at it, but I also am dubious of any claim that money has nothing to do with it.
I have to agree that comparing professional sports to other professions is absurd on its face. But the premise that teacher pay should be somehow predicated on quantifiable results is anything but absurd.
In cory’s example the NFL players in-the-trenches don’t make nearly what the star players do, and this is true, but neither do teachers in public elementary school make anywhere near what a tenured professor at a prestigious university does. The average NFL player makes around $2.0M with the lowest players making around $450,000 and the highest averages are around $10.0M to $23.0M (and before you get into “endorsements” remember that isn’t compensation from the NFL employer.) The average grade school teacher makes $60.0K with the higher paid professors making upwards of $500.0k to $800.0k, coaches making $2.0M to $3.0M and Deans and Chairs making $1.0M and more in base salary. And there’s a lot more of the half million $ professors than there are $20.0M quarterbacks.
I also take exception with the idea that salaries must be competitive based on educational requirements. According the bls; the median earnings with a Bachelor’s degree in the US is around $60.0K, a Master’s around $80.0K. Depending on your field, these are the required degrees for teaching credentials (in some cases credentials may be obtained without a post-secondary education) and these are the income expectations for teachers. Notwithstanding that teachers do not work a 40 hour week nor do they work a 52 week schedule for the same pay. Statistically, the unions prefer you consider only primary and secondary educators and not post-secondary or alternative adult education teachers when looking at the pay to degree ratio.
If teachers do work the additional hours per week and the additional weeks per year they make significantly more than their non-teacher counterparts. When benefits are added, teachers make more for less work with little or no direct accountability for success or failure to teach.
I may just be lost, but I can never figure out where people get their numbers for how much teachers get paid. The BLS says “Median annual wages of kindergarten, elementary, middle, and secondary school teachers ranged from $47,100 to $51,180 in May 2008”, and that’s also including private school teachers (I can’t find, offhand, how private school teachers fare salary-wise compared to their private school counterparts, other than “Although private school teachers generally earn less than public school teachers, they may be given other benefits, such as free or subsidized housing.”).
I also can’t find any reliable source regarding claims related to number of hours worked, either. What is your source for the claim that teachers do not work 40 hour weeks?
cory,
Personal experience as a California public school teacher.
I currently work for a state run university and part of my job is analysis of wages, salaries, initial complements and other remunerations, as well as compensation equities public/private.
Comment intended for Daily KOS deleted//Moderator
boobie
Ha ha ha ha ha
try the huff po they like lefty LOONS also.
Good day everyone. Hope you had a good weekend. 🙂 Looks like the Shadow has been busy again. Keep up the good work. 🙂
GMB
yup
typical right winger. moderate, suppress, and repress free speech until your heart is content!
it must be nice to live on a farm isolated from reality huh Green?
Yup it is sure is. There are tons of places for you to spew your free speech. Places where you will be welcome. Places where conservatives are banned for just asking questions that go against your ideology.
Chuckles called he wants you back. He is missing something.
What’s wrong Bodie? All of your comments are being deleted – why is that? You’ve always been the model of civility so I can’t imagine why your posts are begin scrubbed.
Comment intended for Democratic Underground deleted//Moderator.
Thank you moderator for protecting me from the real world.
Give it up Bodie. You’re going to wear out the cut and paste function on your computer.//Moderator
“Thank you moderator for protecting me from the real world.”
You clearly need it. But hey, so does every single other conservative here, according to the moderator. Did you know the moderator thinks you’re all too stupid and/or too cowardly to answer the question as to why you support habitual criminals who do business with state sponsors of terrorism? Because she does. I would be interested to hear your response, though, considering that you allege to oppose crime and terrorism.
Bodie – why do you support a President that assassinates American citizens over seas? That just doesn’t seem like it fits with your human rights positions.
Cluster,
did you support the decision?
and since when do you have to agree with everything about a President or his policies to support him?
I am sure you voted for Bush both times, and I am also sure you didn’t support all of his policies…so what gives?
I am just surprised that liberals are willing to compromise their core principles in an effort to keep this guy in office.
oh, contrair senior; there is a ultra secret document that the mr usurping president has that said its ok to kill an american in yemen without a trial…
so it goes…you nor i will never see it unless we get an epic security clearance…
Why do people like Bodie ssupport bams. I could go into a multi paragraph answer but you know me. I like to keep things simple.
Feelings, nothing more than feelings. 😛
GMB
Losers that need the nanny state to wipe their noses.
Losers who sit on the porch, smoke dope, drink beer on OPM
Losers who cant make it without a union.
Losers who cant be hired, trained, promoted without being pushed to the front of the line.
Losers who think exits are entrances.
How about we ask the resident liberals, progressives, trolls, and flapping monkey brigade to define their point of view. Not what policies they want to spend other people’s money on or why we need cradle to grave everything but rather what makes them belief they are entitled to take my money and spend it on such crap. Not that “it’s the right thing to do” as a reason for needing single payer health care from the time we escape the abortionist’s knife till the day we die but where you find this Constitutional and why you find it okay to take my money and pay for someone that has decided not to lift a finger towards their own good.
A couple of points to remember—this is the land of equal opportunity ~ not equal outcome & it is freedom of religion not freedom from religion. The streets were not lined with the sick, poor, and dying prior to 1960. The skies were not aflame due to lack of regulations. The water was drinkable, the fish caught could be eaten and everyone was expected to not only earn their own keep but to give to something greater. I am not saying that there should be no laws or regulations but they should be simple, straightforward, have real teeth, and be enforced rather than compound the problems by writing even more.
The only thing that has changed is the policies driven by progressives and liberals over the years into what is now started as the “Days of Rage”; however, those folks can hardly complete a sentence let alone expound on why they are even there short of regurgitating their “Masters” words. Unlike Spook, I see Pres. Wilson as the grand master when he started things that he knowingly would subvert the Constitution like instituting case law v. Constitutional law, segregating the Federal government, pushing the change in the 17th Amendment removing State selection of Senators (one of the major pillars of the Constitution), and many more “little” subversive moves.
So Libs–What is, and why is, Socialism so great and then tell me where you want to take this country because Socialism is only a stepping stone towards Marxism / Communism. What is your perceived endgame?
Unlike Spook, I see Pres. Wilson as the grand master when he started things that he knowingly would subvert the Constitution
DB, I would not disagree with that. Teddy Roosevelt may have been the first Progressive president, but Wilson was the one who began implementing the Progressive agenda. The fact that Wilson is often cited as the 6th or 7th greatest president really tells you just who has had the biggest hand in writing (re-writing) history during the last century. It’s long past time to push the pendulum back the other way.
My bad. Actually, it sounds like I agree with you. 😀
Herman Cain
has proven once again not ready for prime time
first kisses muslims azz
now joins Je$$e, al , barry as a race pimp.
These guys just cant get past their pathology and obsession of the color of their skin.
Accusing a man of something that was painted on a rock, on RENTED property in freeking 1983 by some unknown person then covered up as soon as it was pointed out is beyond the pale.
Sorry herman you just LOST any respect I once had for you.
You are just another race baiting hack.
PS
herman, if you hate the ni**er word so badly take it up with
je$$e
Al
eddy murphy
diana ross
chris rock
dave chappel
redd foxx
sinbad
james earl jones
EVERY RAP “singer”
dozens of sit coms
dozens of movies
EVERY high school/Jr high school black kid
take the LOG out of your eye before commenting on the SPECK in anthers.
VERY DISAPPOINTING but not surprising
The endgame, as it were, is to actually provide that land of equal opportunity that I keep hearing about. There is no equal opportunity if you can determine with a fairly high degree of accuracy what your socio-economic status is going to be when you grow up based solely on how wealthy your parents are. As time progresses, we are seeing income gaps increase and class mobility decrease.
The only way I can come up with to completely alleviate the problem is to enact a 100% estate tax that somehow can’t be dodged and then use the money to raise our children in such a way that they have equal resources. THis would, to say it nicely, be wildly unpopular and probably a bad idea, so instead we have to resort to compromises and partial measures like progressive income taxes and captial gains taxes. It probably isn’t enough to make everything completely fair, but it at least makes sure we’re in the right ball park playing the right game.
corky
radical left lunacy
we see how well that worked in the FORMER soviet union, N. Korea, Cuba
what a LOSER, lazy dumbed down ass and OPM.
In spite of what Obama says, the purpose of taxation is not fairness. The purpose of taxation is to raise revenue to operate the government and to to raise that revenue fairly.
It isn’t fair (equitable) for the government to confiscate the wealth earned by one citizen after it has been earned because the beneficiary of that wealth didn’t likewise earn the wealth; if this were “fair” then the government must also confiscate proceeds from life insurance policies.
To make fairness the goal of taxation, the government must confiscate all earnings over a predetermined amount to prevent accumulation of wealth. To make it fair confiscation, the citizens must be forbidden to own more property than their neighbors, more possessions, more education, more children, or more ambition than their neighbor. Like where this is going? I didn’t think so.
“To make fairness the goal of taxation, the government must confiscate all earnings over a predetermined amount to prevent accumulation of wealth.”
You talk like this is some unheard-of obscenity, but if you examine the top marginal tax rates in the 1950s into the 60s, that’s almost exactly what we did. From the entire period from 1950 to 1963, the top tax bracket never dropped below 91% taxation. Those years also happened to involve some of the most explosive economic growth this country has ever seen, despite the fact that once your income got to about $400,000, you basically were not allowed to make more money anymore.
The purpose of taxation is, of course, to raise revenue, but you just said yourself that the revenue needs to be raised fairly. I think putting on blinders and ignoring all of the factors that put people in different stations in life and trying to determine what is fair based on that is absurd. We both agree that you can’t actually use taxation to make the world entirely fair, but we can make some compromises and get it a little closer. If we can’t actually guarantee a level playing field where the poor are poor solely because of their own decisions, how can we dump on them for being poor?
Cory,
You make my argument for me; the top marginal tax rate after WWII went from 86.45% to 91%; during the same period GDP was stuck between $2.0 & $3.0 Billion where it had been since the beginning of the 20th Century. When that tax rate was lowered to 70% GDP rose to $7.0 Billion. After the Reagan Rate of 28% GDP skyrocketed and since it hasn’t gone above 35% GDP soared to $12.0 Billion.
The citizens earning the highest became quite adept at sheltering their income by moving it off-shore or by investing in such shelters as insurance (You’ll note that Warren Buffett favors raising the top marginal rates and he’s the major shareholder in the Berkshire Hathaway Homestate Insurance Companies).
After tax rates were lowered during the 1980, the US began the largest and longest peacetime expansion of our economy in our history.
Punishing achievement is neither prudent nor profitable.
The “Great Society” and the “New Deal” have both been dramatic failures at social engineering. Every effort the government makes to “level the playing field” has resulted in greater poverty, greater dependence on social welfare and further skewed success to those already accustomed to success.
Taxation can be used to direct social responsibility by taxing undesirable behavior (Freidman) or by taxing commerce the government wishes to control (Jefferson) but it has never been used to successfully raise anyone’s standard of living or level a playing field, unless you’re talking about a bond issue to actually level an athletic field at a public school or university.
“… for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.” (Churchill)
You want to make life fair? Get the government out of it. Build a better mousetrap, get people to invest in your business, hire people to build and sell your mousetrap, and use the proceeds to invest in other businesses.
In addition to the names I mentioned above, you should also read Carnegie on full employment.
I find again that you are quoting numbers but I can’t locate sources that agree with you. The GDP growth rate for 1950-1952 (the timeline for the increasing tax rate) was the highest of the entire century. I’m not sure how I can even have a discussion when your conclusions are based on numbers that, as near as I can tell, are just made up.
corky
48% pay NO federal tax
53% pay only 3% of all taxes……
is that “fair”?
maybe to a non taxpayer Loser like you .
to me it SUCKS!
cory,
Your failure to understand or follow is hardly my fault.
Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is the indicator of the total output of a country and is not to be confused with GDP growth. GDP growth is calculated based on the output increase or decrease from the previous period and is an indicator of how well or poorly each period is compared with the previous period.
During periods of sustained increases in output, the percentages will be smaller but will be consistently positive as what happened during the 1980s and 1990s.
Try not to confuse the two.
According to the Bureau of Economic Statistics the highest annualized growth in GDP was 1942 ~18.5%; 1941 ~17.1%; 1943 ~16.4%; 1936 ~13.1%; 1934 ~ 10.9%. Growth in 1950 ~8.7%; 1951 ~7.7% & 1952~ 3.8%. In these situations, the period preceding and following were negative or stagnant.
In 1950-1951 defense spending accounted for a 93.1% & 32.9% increase respectively; Korean War. 1941, 1942 & 1943 had defense GDP growth of 440.8%, 265.3% and 62.9% growth; WWII.
Seeing a pattern yet?
These are not sustained growth as we saw in 1980s or 1990s.
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. Yes, I realize that growth rate is different from total GDP. When you say ” GDP was stuck between $2.0 & $3.0 Billion where it had been since the beginning of the 20th Century.” guess what? You are talking about GDP growth rate. I don’t know if you know this, but that’s what growth rate means. Your total GDP grows by some amount from one period to the next. And overall, it was massively positive in the 50s and 60s, despite the fact that it was more volatile.
Are there reasons that using GDP as your one and only measuring stick of the health of economy is not smart? Absolutely, but you were the one that started talking GDP growth rates, not I. You can’t start quoting mitigating factors in my cited time periods unless you also want people to point out that Reagan also massively increased goverment spending during the time period of GDP growth in the 80s. (Why do conservatives love that guy again? Oh right, they don’t actually care at all about small government or anything like that, they just want lower taxes). And what about the early 90s? Did the 40% drop in top marginal tax rates wear off or something? Do you think if we drop it another 40% and give the rich money rather than taxing them, we can trade another decade of growth for even bigger deficits?
isnt it strange…the people who used this back in the 1800’s…never too offense…they used the N word without any issues…until the 60s…by that time…100 years after the civil war and the freedom of all slaves…all of a sudden…the N word can get you sued for millions…because its…insensitive?
so why hasnt anyone been sued for calling whites honkeys, or spic’s…or for calling italians waps or jews kikes….the river flows both ways…no black condemns another black for using the N word either…they jack around a play calling each other the N word…
if the use of slang is only offensive to blacks who were never slaves…why would that race be so absorbed in calling whites honkey, hispanics spic’s…or jews kikes…this whole racial insult thing…is a charade…
js
It is used as a weapon to end any and all debate.
racist, bigot, homophobe……..alinsky 101.
one good thing happend today…
knox is free
Are you serious?
Ann Coulter pretty much nails the issues.
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2011-09-07.html
she is wrong
http://abcnews.go.com/International/amanda-knox-innocent/story?id=14654317&page=2%27%20rel=%27nofollow
seems a bro did it.
Knox is innocent like OJ Simpson is innocent. It doesn’t matter what ABC and the rest of the MSM says about the case.
Bardolf,
Did you get your knowledge from Italian tabloids or did you attend the trial?
http://www.repubblica.it/ is the national newspaper equivalent to the New York Times
I also watched coverage of the trial on the public channels controlled by the conservative government.
baldork
OJ and the other OJ are both guilty.
Knox is innocent, the guy confessed and was convicted.
she was convicted and released by faulty contaminated DNA.
Neoconehead
Well OJ was found innocent based on faulty contaminated DNA.
You obviously don’t read Italian and can’t follow anything about the trial besides what the American press tells you. I on the other hand followed the trial while I was in Italy for a year. Is it because she is white that you think she is innocent?
Go read Ann Coulter to understand something about the trial. By the way, in Europe they believe in OJ’s innocence as much as you believe in Amanda’s innocence and for the same reason. You all just want it to be true.
baldork
BS
OJ was jury nullified PERIOD
the DNA was rock solid.
of course it couldnt have been the liberal .
It never is
Is it because she is white that you think she is innocent?
. You all just want it to be true.
BAM
that didnt take long…what a surprise…..
The prosecution’s case was fatally set back during the appeal when two court-ordered independent experts reviewed the DNA evidence that had been used to link the two to the crime during the first trial.
Prosecutors maintain that Knox’s DNA was found on the handle of a kitchen knife believed to be the murder weapon, and that Kercher’s DNA was found on the blade. They said Sollecito‘s DNA was on the clasp of Kercher’s bra as part of a mix of evidence that also included the victim’s genetic profile.
But the independent review – ordered at the request of the defense, which had always disputed those findings – reached a different conclusion.
The two experts found that police conducting the investigation had made glaring errors in evidence-collecting and that below-standard testing and possible contamination raised doubts over the attribution of DNA traces, both on the blade and on the bra clasp, which was collected from the crime scene 46 days after the murder.
The review was crucial in the case because no motive has emerged and witness testimony was contradictory.
Are you saying that the PERUGIA Police are so incompetent they couldn’t frame a guilty woman?
Sounds like LAPD.
Count
Knox was found guilty. One difference with OJ is at least he didn’t look at a stereotype redneck and say that guy did the crime. Knox did that, claiming a black bartender was to blame. Knox changed her stories 20 times because she is guilty. The Perugia police didn’t jump the fence, didn’t rush to judgement … They did solid police work and Knox was found guilty.
Amanda Knox only won an appeal because of State Department pressure from Hillary Clinton and the Huffpost progressives of the world (like Neoconehead) who can’t imagine a privileged Caucasian youth capable of murder.
It’s the same reason Roman Polanski is free to move around Europe after raping a teenager. In their eyes he can’t be a bad guy if he makes artsy movies.
@Neoconehead – pretend you are not a partisan and explain how a person new to the OJ trial vs. Knox trial could come to the conclusion that he is guilty and she innocent.
Simple; he was found liable for the murders in a court of law, and she was acquitted in a court of law.
He’s in jail, she’s not.
I “obviously” don’t read Italian either, but I do know enough to not trust either the Italian press or the MSM to give fair dispassionate representation of the facts.
I don’t know about her guilt or innocence, but I’m not going to get my knickers in a twist over her.
@Count
She was found guilty in her murder trial. OJ was found not guilty in his murder trial.
We’ll see what happens with the process in Italy. Of course you know it isn’t finished with the appeal.
Convicted of murder?
Oddly enough so was Randall Adams, Earl Washington, Ronald Kitchen, Steven Truscott, Laurence Adams, Ray Krone, Donald Marshall Jr., Kirk Bloodsworth, Michael Morton, in fact; here’s a list “LIST”
On a lighter note, the Japanese have introduced an an exciting new bike. It’s even named after our very own Neocon.
Just when you thought you had heard everything……….
sure beats this one….
LOL
No more MPG.
now 100 miles per poop = MPP
I am disappointed in Mr. Cain too. I thought he was better than this. Another bites the dust. That just leaves the two ladies. Sarah and Michelle.
Looks we are stuck with whoever the retug establishment pawns off on unless Sarah gets in. While I am not a fan of any poll numbers at all, Michelle is just way too low in the numbers right now.
GMB
it will be hillary and mcLame redux
Hillary wins.
I think Sarah would disappoint you too GMB
The PC police running wild.
Update: ESPN Yanks ‘Monday Night Football’ Open Over Hank Jr‘s ’Hitler’ Comment
“We are extremely disappointed with his comments…”
Cluster
Im underwhelmed by the GOP field my self.
Mostly re runs of losers and rookies. If the knight on the white horse is Christie…..forgetaboutit.
We lowered the bar so low with mcLame every RINO looks half way good.
Im not convinced we need a half way anything. I for one am sick of holding my nose and voting for the charley christs and juan mcLames of the GOP
Electile Dysfunction neo?
I’m willing to cut Cain some slack. Initially there was a lot of misinformation about the rock. I’m guessing Cain didn’t have all the facts when he made his comments on Fox New Sunday. I still like the guy more than any of the others.
“I’m guessing Cain didn’t have all the facts when he made his comments ”
Doesn’t speak well of Cain as a candidate if he goes off half-cocked, does it?
I like what he stands for but governemnt isn’t business; we need a president more than a CEO.
Electile Dysfunction neo?
HUH?
yo vinny, you talkin to meee?
not even maybe… 🙂
Why is that Cluster? Why would Sarah P. disappoint me?
You seem to be easily disappointed
If you say so Cluster. I should have relized that this wasn’t about Mr. Cain getting on board the race issue. It was about me be too rigid and radical and freakish. Thanks 😛
Cain didn’t handle it well, but I am not going to judge him on one incident, and you definitely have thin skin if that disappointed you. I have always been a firm believer that you play the hand that is dealt to you and you don’t whine about it. I despise whiners. If you don;t like the GOP field, then don’t whine about it and go out and do something about it. That goes for you too neo.
cluster
No whining here just presenting the facts as I see them, I was for Cain even after the muzzy debacle.
I cant vote for a man who cant get past the color of his skin and sees raaaacism in every woodpile.
I look at it this way Cluster. Either you are a progressive or you are not. The race bullshit is part of the progressive agenda. You can support that if you want. I will not.
Mr. Cain lept to a conclusion about Mr.Perry that was not factual. Buh bye. Put himself into the same catogory as jessy and al. I will have nothing to do with it. No whinining at all. Either he comes out and apologizes for the knee jerk reaction or he suffers some loss of support.
Almost seems like all this is scripted doesn’t it. The only one not to make a major gaffe is our good progressive friend romney. It’s his turn isn’t it?
He will even probably win the presidency and in the end not do one damn thing about rolling back to a more constitutional form of government that you so cherish.
Mr. Cain lept to a conclusion about Mr.Perry that was not factual.
I’m not sure about leaping to a conclusion. He had help from the misleading, and up to the time, definitive article in the WAPO the same day as he made his comments on TV, plus the way Christiana Amanpour phrased the question was very leading as well as far from factual. I agree, though, that Cain should have simply said something like, “I’m not going to comment on this until we know all the facts.”
Like Cluster, I’m not going to judge him on this one incident.
To each thier own Spook. I never expected you too.
Spook
his second gaffe, TWO major issues
1. wrong on islam.
2. wrong on race.
I have changed my mind and will not support him, his true “color” has come shining through.
Im going with the Big Guy on this……
RUSH: I’m gonna tell you, this is really disappointing to me. Herman Cain. I liked Herman Cain — like Herman Cain. The Washington Post has it as a Macaca story about Rick Perry. Apparently back when Rick Perry was a Democrat… There’s this woman at the Washington Post who’s written a story that, with traditional journalism, wouldn’t even pass the first review by an editor. But apparently back in the eighties when Perry was a Democrat, he and his dad would go hunting at someplace and there is a rock that had the N-word on it that somebody had painted over.
They’re trying to say that Perry’s a racist, and Herman Cain has jumped in and basically joined that chorus — and it is absurd. It’s painted over and they tried to paint cover it up and then they eventually turned it over so people wouldn’t see it….
So here you have the Washington Post with an unsupported nonstory, and here comes Herman Cain piggybacking on it trying to capitalize on it, essentially letting the mainstream media (in this case, the Washington Post) set the narrative. It’s exactly what I mean. There’s this… I don’t know if you call it a fear or just a mistaken belief that the power in media still exclusively resides in the mainstream media, and it’s those people that you have to get on your side; those people you have to use to get your message out, or what have you, and so that leads to pandering to them.
Cain is doing it in this case. The Republican leadership in both the House and Senate are renowned for doing it throughout all of our lives. Even some Republican presidents have done so.
This fine, day-long open thread on “Blogs for Victory” and nary a single comment on the occupation of Wall Street? You had the chance to lament your lack of choices for a political nominee on the “No Savior” thread, and on the open thread you disregard the biggest story of the week. That about says it for the groupies here.
This is what others are saying, however: “Occupy Wall Street is a tea party with brains. They’re organized, lucid and motivated… They’re smart enough to recognize the nation’s problems aren’t simply about taxes and the deficit…”
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/occupy-wall-street-is-a-tea-party-with-brains-2011-10-04?pagenumber=2
dirty doper scumballs…what is there to say?
dumbed down useful idiots dancing to their muslim marxist pied pipers tune.
dopeydennis
They’re smart enough to recognize the nation’s problems aren’t simply about taxes and the deficit…
Really???????????
Gee real freeking rocket scientists eh?
lets go smash some windows maaaaaaan. We’ll teach those Fn capitalists pigs.
I wonder if the checked with mommy and daddy to make sure they are not playing the stock market? How they going to buy all micky dees food if mommy and daddy lose all thier money?
can you figure out why only mental midgets would gravitate to stupid stories like that stooge?
Neo, you are up late, whats up? You feeling all right.
Dennis, to us fringe type people the occupation of Wall Street by a bunch of smelly people is no story at all. Just par for the course. They won’t accoplish anything and they will leave the place a dump. Just like they did after bams innuaguration.
GMB
watched the Rays lose, 😦 and the Bucs win 🙂
work slow for tomorrow so I am up playing.
GMB
They won’t accoplish anything and they will leave the place a dump. Just like they did after bams innuaguration.
or the eight million dollars of damage and clean up after the Washington capital occupation by leftist “teacher” union drones and thugs.
dennistooge
‘This Is Revolution Not Reform’
— Occupy Wall Street Organizer to ‘Excited’ Al Sharpton:
We Are Anarchists and Revolutionaries,‘
This Is the Beginning of a Revolution in This Country’
There you have it dennistooge, are you a patriot? or a Traitor?
Their “revolution” will be met and crushed, and flushed down the pipe of history with the rest of the SHIITE!!
Neo, As long as you are ok. 🙂 I am up late thinking about ways to agrivate our resident leftys. Then it dawn on me. I exist. Thats aggravating enough. 😛
That and fixing a computer that took a poop earilier today. Yawn
GMB
I hate it when that happens…..
GMB
wellll now I am going to bed…catch ya tomorrow at the Cain rally…..Oh Wait
LOL
Aren’t they done with there day of rage yet? I mean talk about no truth in advertising here. How long they been there? Can nanny bloomberg start charging rent?
Obama’s relations with Dem leaders deteriorating…
WALL STREET PROTESTERS CALL FOR RE-ELECTION OF OBAMA?
Pssssst….hey KID…..STFU
Major Democratic Fundraiser at Van Jones ‘Take Back the American Dream Conference’: The American Dream Is Totally About Sharing and Redistributing the Wealth Because Free Houses and HealthCare Are a Right
Psssstttttttt
van……..OVER OUR DEAD BODIES
do in in da hood,
come for my neighborhood you will be met with deadly force.
THIS is a SMALL idea of what is to come VAN
Ann Coulter on Wall St. Protest: This is What ‘The Beginning of Totalitarianism’ Looks Like
And the Democrats “love mob uprisings.