…when the union leadership organize angry demonstrations like so many 60s hippie throwbacks or a cadres of Bolsheviks running roughshod in near-riotous mobs, they’re not doing themselves any favors. At the same time, they just don’t seem to have a clue as to just how precarious their position is, or how to fix it.
Up to this point, Minnesota’s teacher and other unions, having had the luxury of being able to act like spoiled teenagers; largely without consequence, have been virtual one-trick ponies in terms of defaulting to in-your-face, thuggish tactics to get demands met.
As Minnesota native Bob Dylan once crooned, “Oh the times, they are a changing. If Minnesota’s unions want to survive, they better damn well change with them.
My point was that “in your face” demonstrations no longer work. The unions instead need to focus on winning the hearts and minds of the electorate, and that would need to take place via a positive public relations campaign that you can visit here (See the Mormon Church, for example). I am a union member, but I am also far-enough removed from the kool-aid drinking, monolithic union culture to know how the public views unions; and that in this economy, there is precious-little sympathy for their ‘plight’ and their propensity to throw temper tantrums over health care benefits, tenure issues, and the like, when many non-union counterparts are worrying about simply finding a job in this rotten economy that the democrat party, abetted by those same union footsoldiers, have created.
Blogs For Victory 
communism never dies without a fight.
Sobbing man: ‘Democracy died tonight’…
note to slobbing “man”……..get friggin REAL, the PEOPLE SPOKE!!!!
Wisconsin……..
for ABOVE….
should have read Wisconsin Donk party….LOL
NOTE to Wisconsin LEFTIES……..learn from the master grasshopper….
Greece Warns of Going Broke as Tax Proceeds Dry Up
The International Herald Tribune
ATHENS — As European leaders grapple with how to preserve their monetary union, Greece is rapidly running out of money.
Greece Rapidly Runs Out of Money
Interactive Feature
Tracking Europe’s Debt Crisis
Related
Government coffers could be empty as soon as July, shortly after this month’s pivotal elections. In the worst case, Athens might have to temporarily stop paying for salaries and pensions, along with imports of fuel, food and pharmaceuticals.
But neo, the sobbing man defines “democracy” as the ability to have a temper tantrum when you lose an election, and bring in thousands of people and millions of dollars from other states to override the will of the people.
So of course, his own strange version of “democracy” took a hit on Tuesday. I doubt that it is dead, as the rabidly radical Left will always depend heavily on temper tantrums and efforts to subvert the will of a free people, but we can hope it is stunned for a while.
“Greece Warns of Going Broke as Tax Proceeds Dry Up”
We will take care of it tomorrow, right after we raise taxes first.
🙂
Isn’t it funny how the media constantly blames Walker, and conservatives, for the lack of civility? I could be wrong, but wasn’t it liberals, and the OWS crowd that trashed the WI courthouse, and demonized the Governor?
Gov. Scott Walker, whose decision to cut collective bargaining rights for most public workers set off a firestorm in a state usually known for its political civility,
Read more: http://newsbusters.org/#ixzz1x2neoZ8M
Anyone else think same-day registration is a bad idea?
Ubamas sons and brownshirt civilian security farce…..
http://www.punditpress.com/2012/06/liberals-plan-to-kill-scott-walker-ill.html
Here’s some more liberal hypocritical fun:
Michelle Obama is requiring photo ID’s to enter her book signing and the DNC will be requiring photo ID to enter the convention this summer. Isn’t that great?
But no photo ID should ever be required to vote for the most powerful office in the world.
Don’t you just love this current crop of liberals?
There is a big difference between an open event where the First Lady is present and there are vast security concerns and a scheduled event which is a Constitutional right where security is handled at the local level.
And yet casting a ballot anonymously and having influence in electing the most powerful man in the world is anyone’s game. Great thinking. We are going to need a lot more security for everyone if we keep doing that.
Cav, you seem quite comfortable with having ME disenfranchised by allowing someone else to vote in my name. What am I supposed to do if I go to vote and find that a ballot has already been cast in my name, a vote made possible by the lack of identification of the person using my name?
What seems to elude you is that I have the right, as a citizen and a registered voter, to be able to cast my vote, whereas no one—and I repeat, NO ONE—-has a right to cast a vote in my name and deprive me of my vote.
While you are emoting over the tragedy of people not being allowed to just stroll in and cast votes in any old name at any old time without the slightest hint of proof of who they are or of their eligibility to vote, you are quite dismissive of the deprivation of actual, real, rights of those who have their votes stolen by the same people you are defending.
Requiring a photo ID disproportionately affects minorities and the poor, two groups Mrs. Obama does not want at her fundraisers.
Btw, you do know that posing as an attorney in a public forum is illegal, right?
Kevlar Epithet,
“I am a union member, but I am also far-enough removed from the kool-aid drinking, monolithic union culture to know how the public views unions; and that in this economy, there is precious-little sympathy for their ‘plight’ and their propensity to throw temper tantrums over health care benefits, tenure issues, and the like, when many non-union counterparts are worrying about simply finding a job in this rotten economy that the democrat party, abetted by those same union footsoldiers, have created.” – Leo
This paragraph contains the essence of everything wrong with the GOP today.
1. Name calling without substance. “kool-aid, monolithic, goons, foot soldiers, communists, bolsheviks, .” a complete ignorance of actual history in favor of sound bites from Newsmax. Good vs. evil simplistic nonsense.
2. “How the public views …” – so principals aren’t really important, what counts is elementary school level brain washing so that you’re jealous of your neighbor if she has health care but not jealous of the Chicago Cubs owner who is taxing you to pay for his real estate.
3. Mean spiritedness, nay anti-Christian rhetoric whereby actual concerns are transformed into ‘plights’ with quotes to emphasize the dubiousness of your fellow neighbors claims.
4. Encouraging jealousy among the poor and middle class, why should X have tenure or health care when you don’t?
5. Complete ignorance of why the economy is in the toilet, blaming a middle class 12% of people who have bosses as “abetting” decisions made in D.C. or NYC always on behalf of welfare for the fairly poor or welfare for the very rich.
You think a trillion dollar war helped wreck the economy? NO.
You think trillions given to people/banks for houses they couldn’t afford wrecked the economy? No
How about huge deficits to pay for Medicare handouts which suck money out of the economy?No
What really killed the economy is the 11% of guys and gals with health care benefits. Yep
How would this sound in ancient times?
I am relatively religious, but I am also far-enough removed from that extremist, anti-Roman cult to know how the world views them ; in this day and age, there is precious-little sympathy for their ‘plight’ and their propensity for martyrdom. Many people are worrying about simply surviving in this rotten empire.
1. Name calling without substance.
Thank goodness liberals don’t suffer from that affliction right stool? And please no more lectures on who, or who shouldn’t be above the fray. That gets old.
2. what counts is elementary school level brain washing…
And the democrats are different how?
It seems to me stool that you might want to examine what is wrong with the democratic party because a very blue state just re elected a conservative governor and rejected the democrats. Yet you and Lawrence O’Donnell seem to still think that conservatism is on the ropes. Your delusion is comical.
Fiscal conservatism isn’t on the ropes?
Social conservatism hasn’t been buried with 40 million others?
I’d have to be a fool to believe that people looking out for their own material interests will ever be on the ropes. If that is your version of conservativism then it’s 1 dimensional.
Fiscal conservatism isn’t on the ropes?
Not last I heard. What do you think is driving the Tea Party movement?
Social conservatism hasn’t been buried with 40 million others?
I’m not sure exactly what you mean. 40 million other what? I’m having a hard time comprehending how someone with as disjointed a thought process as you teaches math.
Are you kidding me Spook?
It’s just as plain as noses on conservative feces!
If fiscal conservatism isn’t linear without substantive proportional aggregate inframonitoisalition, than I don’t know what is!
Purple monkey dishwasher.
Stool,
Do you know what’s right about the GOP? Scott Walker. He is a committed conservative and a liberals worst nightmare.
Bardolf–
I am SO tired of your trotting out a bastardized view of Christianity as your rationalization for wealth confiscation and erosion of economic and other liberties.
Never, I mean NEVER ONCE did Jesus say, “Go ye forth among all the lands, and confiscate the wealth therein, and re-distributeth the fruits of others’ labors to the poor.”
Charity at the point of a gun is NOT charity. Charity is something that is given freely of the heart- something that the liberal mindset cannot fathom, and/or conveniently leaves out in his or her prosthelytization of faux Christianity in a vain search of setting up an unattainable, ironically god-less earthly utopia.
Get out of here with your balderdash and tripe! Christ said, “My Kingdom is not of this earth.” and “The poor will always be with you.” People tried to make Christ an earthly King– someone who could be recruited to organize an uprising so as to set up their version of a ‘just government’ here on earth. Christ would have none of it.
Christ did exhort people, individually, to give to the poor- but he left it to individuals to make the decision.
Given that, it is conservatives who actually follow Christ by giving freely to charitable causes in spades over their liberal counterparts; the latter of who think of ‘charity’ as being charitable with somebody else’s money.
Leo
I never mentioned wealth confiscation or taxes or any of the nonsensical words you’d like to put in my mouth.
I claim you violate the commandment of bearing false witness against your neighbor by putting ‘plight’ in quotes. In addition calling your neighbors “foot soldiers, thugs, Bolsheviks, ..” is a pretty clear violation of
The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.” Mark 12:31
You really shouldn’t rely on talking points for your religious beliefs as well as your political beliefs. Your admixture of quotes shows a complete lack of actual bible study. It’s as stupid as the liberal quoting “Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
You have quoted Matthew 26:11 “The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me.” but are completely unaware of its context or meaning. It is not meant to relegate the problems of the poor to second or third class as you’d like.
The meaning is that the poor and poverty surround us as a reminder of our own spiritual poverty. We are beggars in a very real sense and rely on handouts that we don’t earn or deserve. We always have a reminder that we are in need hence the poor will always be with us, what is mysterious is that God’s Grace is given abundantly. His Grace will not always be available however hence Christ’s availability will not endure for all people for all times.
As for your cheapening of Christ’s expectations of our duties with your regurgitated “Christ did exhort people, individually, to give to the poor- but he left it to individuals to make the decision.” I would respond
If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.
Bardolf—
I did NOT cheapen what Christ said–I am saying that as God bestows upon us free will, charity itself depends on free will. To confiscate from another’s labors to give to another is theft, not charity. I’ve said nothing that cheapens nor cancels a person’s responsibility to give to charity. All I am saying is that the ‘religious’ left equate charity with wealth confiscation, and try to use religion as a cover in their quest to achieve their bastardized nirvana on earth. Period. They confiscate other people’s money under the faux cloak of performing corporal works of mercy. That is disingenuous to the nth degree.
By the way, there is another Commandment that liberals love to ignore: THOU SHALT NOT COVET. The whole ginned up class-envy argument is a direct violation of this commandment.
Dolf,
I take it you don’t know anyone who belongs to a union. It’s like talking to someone from another planet. They view anything agreed to via collective bargaining as a sacred contract. Now with a private sector union, the worse that can happen is that the legacy costs eventually drive the company into bankruptcy, which is basically what happened to GM and Chrysler. Public sector unions, however, are a different story with legacy costs already driving a number of counties and municipalities into bankruptcy. So far no states have declared bankruptcy, thanks in no small part to that portion of the stimulus that bailed out a number of states including my state of Indiana. Eventually, though, Margaret Thatcher will be proved right, and we will run out of other people’s money.
Spook
I don’t know too many people in unions since there are not that many. I know some teamsters and most of the university staff belongs to afscme. They remember past compromises where there was given and take. The secretaries exchanged salary increases for health care benefits 20 years ago. If their health care benefits are removed they can’t bargain for the exchanged forgone salary precisely because the economic environment wouldn’t allow it.
Interestingly, a huge cost to the state is that there is a state retirement plan for state workers which is a guaranteed large amount and was supposed to be achieved by giving fancy investors the money to gamble with in the market. My retirement instead is completely contingent on how the national, conservative TIAA-CREF manages it. I have had some of my pay moved to help recover the lost funds of the state plan. I don’t blame my coworkers in the state plan as much as the investors who made personal fortunes despite poor investing.
You really toe the corporate line about the explanation for GM and Chrysler. Somehow BMW makes a nice profit while having strong unions in Germany. The actual cost of labor in a car is probably small and would be smaller if the US could undo the Frankenstein medical system it has managed to create.
I’m curious about the limitations conservatives might place when taking OPM is a bad thing. A friend’s nephew is about to be shipped overseas. The boy decided to get married to a girl he knew for 2 weeks so they could get an extra housing allowance, pay for being separated, a bigger food allowance, free medical care for her, … which is apparently not uncommon. There isn’t anything illegal about the scheme, but it doesn’t seem vastly different than welfare. Is this kind of welfare okay because simply because the military is involved?
Stool,
You have made a strong case to drop out of the union, which I think you should if you are able to. Fortunately, Walker’s reform in WI now allows union members to do just that, and nearly 60% of them did, and that is what the fight is truly about. Unions only benefit the top brass and the democratic party and do very little for the rank and file and that’s why they are becoming obsolete.
dolf, are you really conflating assistance to military families with welfare?
Try to step back from your micro analysis. One person you have heard of is supposedly accelerating a marriage to become a military spouse with whatever that entails. If the marriage is a fraud, entered into for fraudulent purposes, that is one thing. But to lump benefits to military families, who sacrifice so much in service to this nation, with welfare is really disgusting.
dolf, perhaps you can clear up a few things that are a little confusing in your post.
What is wrong with the words “monolithic” and “footsoldier”? And for that matter, a lot of communists and bolsheviks are pretty proud of being communists and bolsheviks and would be quite indignant to have you pronounce judgment on their political choices by claiming that the words are insults.
And if one IS a communist, why is it an insult to call him a communist? Wouldn’t that label be substantiated by his political philosophy and/or identity?
You object to the word “goons” and call it unsubstantiated name-calling, when in fact Leo was quite clear in his reference to people who acted ike goons. “The Wisconsin union goons sealed their fate when they laid siege to the Capitol in Madison.” Laying siege to a public building, and their efforts to intimidate, as well as the damage they did, seem to do quite a good job of substantiating the use of the word “goon”as well as the later use of “thug”.
i think it’s pretty clear that you just got into a snit over the criticisms of these union people and then, after running the comments through your filters, made some pretty unsubstantiated comments about them.
I think principals are very important, as every organization needs leadership and a good principal will provide that leadership and focus. I didn’t see anyone saying that principals are not important, though in the past I have seen comments about the bloated nature of educational administration.
The rest of your post is, as usual, chaotic gibberish. I can’t even tell who you claim is supposedly doing what.
But if this is really ALL THAT IS WRONG WITH THE GOP then I would have to say the GOP is doing pretty darned well. The problem is, you are assigning all sorts of comments, beliefs, ideas, policies, whatever (it is always so hard to tell, with you) to a political party, in response to an individual who has never claimed to represent that party.
As I said, chaotic gibberish……
I departed from watching Fox News last night to listen to Ed Shultz on MSNBC. It was a hoot! I’ll bet it wil be even more entertaining in November! I can hardly wait!
Ed Schultz is one of my favorite comedians
baldork
I heard a man on the radio, a TAX payer, a working man with a family.
He stated how the unions, the communists, anarchists, OWS and every leftist anti American group descended to Wisconsin to fight
HIM, his family friends and duly elected government with nasty name calling, accusations of being racists, haters, and everything evil.
He watched those leftists vandalize, destroy and ruin PUBLIC property he paid for through his taxes.
HIS CRIME?
wanting the union thugs to pay a mere 10% towards their bloated health care and insane pensions.
once again baldork you miss the whole point
Union Protesters Cause $7.5 million in Damages to Wisc. State Capitol
TAX PAYERS 7.5 MILLION!!!!
baldork
Whirlwind SEIU-OWS Training Sessions To Gather 100,000 Anarchists For ‘Destruction’
**** The neo-anarchist movement has at least 925 gatherings of “The 99% Spring” event set to begin the week of May 1st nationwide. This will be a full blown demonstration of street mayhem orchestrated by SEIU-trained OWS anarchists willing to ride the edge of “irrational exuberance” to tear down our banks, financial institutions, and corporations. Presently recruiting upwards of 100,000 student-leftists, communists, and nihilists in a devised strategy linked directly to the White House and its domestic czars, public demonstration and crisis-street mayhem tactics are set to begin in about a week when training formally begins in SEIU locals, college campuses (e.g. Yale Divinty School on Prospect St. in New Haven, CT) and private homes drilled as ready-sites for training of “emerging Socialism’s collateral damage.”
Here is their philosophy supporting their recruitment drive:
http://smartgirlpolitics.ning.com/profiles/blogs/whirlwind-seiu-ows-training-sessions-to-gather-100-000-anarchists
Neocon that SGP article is from April of this year. To my knowledge I have seen nothing of the sort as advertised at SGP regarding “anarchists.” I do have to wonder why some fellow named Paul is writing for Smart Girl Politics. I wonder, neocon if you ever read the LA Times or the Washington Post or USA Today to get a less partisan take on the news? Dare I even ask if you read the NPR site?
Suggesting that one read the LA Times or the Washington Post to “…get a less partisan take on the news …”
I think Cav may be competing for the role of your favorite comedian, Cluster. At least this made me laugh out loud, while Schultz just makes me wish for brain bleach to get rid of the slime that accompanies his every word.
“… less partisan take on the news? …” It doesn’t get much funnier than that.
Bardolf. Is what you upset about most is that the repubs have started to use the tactics of the left to win. No more Mr. Nice Guy? No more Mr.Clean?
“Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice” Some dead white dude said that. Get used to it.
the FOURTH biggest Union LIE
The budget deficit turned surplus in one Wisconsin school district…
… is being largely ignored by the ruling media elite:
As changes to collective bargaining powers for public workers take effect today, the Kaukauna Area School District is poised to swing from a projected $400,000 budget shortfall next year to a $1.5 million surplus due to health care and retirement savings.
The Kaukauna School Board approved changes Monday to its employee handbook that require staff to cover 12.6 percent of their health insurance and to contribute 5.8 percent of their wages to the state’s pension system, in accordance with the new collective bargaining law, commonly known as Act 10.
“These impacts will allow the district to hire additional teachers (and) reduce projected class sizes,” School Board President Todd Arnoldussen wrote in a statement Monday. “In addition, time will be available for staff to identify and support students needing individual assistance through individual and small group experiences.”
…
The new rules and updated operating budget also institute $300,000 in merit pay for staff next year, to be awarded at the school board’s discretion.
State Rep. Jim Steineke, R-Vandenbroek, who represents the 5th District, which includes Kaukauna, issued a statement Tuesday heralding Act 10’s impact on the school district’s budget.
“When (Act 10) was being passed, there was so much misinformation about how this bill would hurt schools,” Steineke wrote. ‘But, as time has passed, it is becoming clearer that this bill gives schools the tools they need to create a better learning environment for the children of Wisconsin.”
In the past, Kaukauna’s agreement with the teachers union required the school district to purchase health insurance coverage from something called WEA Trust —
a company created by the Wisconsin teachers union…This year, WEA Trust told Kaukauna that it would face a significant increase in premiums.
Now, the collective bargaining agreement is gone, and the school district is free to shop around for coverage. And all of a sudden, WEA Trust has changed its position. “With these changes, the schools could go out for bids, and lo and behold, WEA Trust said, ‘We can match the lowest bid,’” says Republican state Rep. Jim Steineke, who represents the area and supports the Walker changes…
The changes mean Kaukauna can reduce the size of its classes — from 31 students to 26 students in high school and from 26 students to 23 students in elementary school. In addition, there will be more teacher time for one-on-one sessions with troubled students. Those changes would not have been possible without the much-maligned changes in collective bargaining.
Teachers’ salaries will stay “relatively the same,” Arnoldussen says, except for higher pension and health care payments. (The top salary is around $80,000 per year, with about $35,000 in additional benefits, for 184 days of work per year — summers off.)
Finally, the money saved will be used to hire a few more teachers and institute merit pay.
But, but, but – the democrats care about the children don’t they?
GMB
If the glee was mainly that Scott Walker had restored Wisconsin to a fiscally conservative footing I would share the sentiment. What seems to be in play is Schadenfreude.
People who are worried about their own economic well-being, maybe a mortgage underwater or worried about a job or whatever are simply pleased that these ‘UNION THUGS’ with a margin of stability have been knocked off their horse.
There is no liberty that is being defended in a race to the bottom. Most state employees I know are as honest as anyone else. They don’t come from Mars. They are your neighbors.
It could well be that the unions are asking too much and that Wisconsin can’t afford the costs. If Wisconsin couldn’t afford the UW football team and decided to shutter the program to save the taxpayers money, even in the face of thuggish opposition, I doubt there would be much glee in the neocon blogosphere.
You are right. People are worried about their economic well being. What they do get see is how well off those public service employees are and they realize that they are ones providing that well being.
I laugh every time I hear a government employee claim that they are paying to much in taxes. They do not, as a group, understand where the money they are payed with comes from.
You can cry that Leo called them thugs. You can sulk away if you want. You can call it shameful joy if you want. It will not change anything in the end.
When I am providing your living and you call me a teabagger for wanting you pay for some of your own medical and retirement benefits , turn about is fair play.
You act like a thug, you are going to be called a thug. Deal with it.
GMB, you have to remember that dolf has a mixmaster of a brain, in which the simplest concepts get spun and blended into the weirdest ideas.
Which is OK, he gets to wallow in his fantasy delusions. It’s just that he presents them as fact, such as his assertion of why people really are happy at Walker’s victory, and that it has something to do with celebrating the misfortune of others because they have been deprived of “..a margin of stability…”
Not a word about defending state sovereignty against organized bullying from outsiders. Not a word about the fact that no one’s “margin of stability” has been threatened, unless of course as a marginal teacher he feels for other marginal teachers who will now be evaluated on merit rather than seniority and can be replaced by better teachers. “Stability”. What an odd word to use for lack of accountability.
Somewhere along the way dolf seems to have gotten the impression that this is a contest for who can state the most obvious. His contribution: “Most state employees I know are as honest as anyone else. They don’t come from Mars. ”
I’m starting to wonder if dolf is really Joe Biden blogging as a math teacher.
But it’s OK, Joe/dolf—no one said state employees are dishonest, or from other planets. You can rest easy on those counts, and don’t need to defend people any more against these accusations, if they were ever made.
It is becoming increasingly clear that dolf’s crystal ball is not the only thing that is cracked.
Don’t you just love this new concern of “big” money in politics on behalf of democrats who find themselves whining about being out spent in WI? It was just about a year ago that they were all giddy about raising a billion dollars for Obama’s 2012 campaign. Eividently that “big” money was acceptable.
Secondly, they were the ones that picked this fight with Walker, so they really shouldn’t whine about the arsenal that Walker brought with him.
I love the smell of liberal desperation in the morning.
I read that some of the precincts in WI were reporting estimates as much a 119% voter turnout. It stands to reason, given WIs allowing same day voter registration, you are going to have a little fraud, but 20% is unreal. Now, I know our progressive friends will claim that’s how Walker won, but given the Democrats resistance to photo ID being required at the polls, it more likely the reason the results weren’t a total blow out. Let’s face facts here for a moment, given AGs decision not to prosecute the Black Panthers whose clear and stated and videoed intent was to intimidate voters at the polls and the debacle from Acorn voter registration efforts, I’d have to ask progressives just where are scandals of this magnitude on the Republican side of the voting booth?
One more answer I’d ask my democratic friends is how can, in a free society, a person be required to join a private organization to have a job and go to work who confiscates part of their members wages, and still be truly free in any sense of the word? Wisconsin residents are waking up and right to work legislation, and work it is a right, can’t be far behind given the dramatic fall off in union membership when the citizens of WI were allowed the choice. Walker freed his people! Free at last free at last. God bless the United States of America and the newly freed State of Wisconsin!
Rightlane the high turnout in Wisconsin was a result of very aggressive mobilization on both sides of the political spectrum and has nothing to do with fraud. The Right in this case won fair and square. Enjoy the victory. As far as the New Black Panther Party case it was dropped by AG Mukasey more than a month before the Obama administration came in to power.
Cav,
There was, indeed, a flat out effort on both sides to bring voters to the polls and, at the end of the day, the GOP (mostly via TEA Party efforts) beat the Democrats hands-down…but, that said, it is clear that WIsconsin’s “same day” voter registration is nothing but a means of perpetrating election fraud…trouble for the Democrats is that you can fraud your way to victory if its a matter of 1 tenth of a percent difference, but you can’t do it when the margin is more than that. Fraud played no role in the outcome of Wisconsin but it was, as usual, prevalent in the Democrat ranks.
If a person cannot bestir themselves to register sufficiently in advance to have his voter eligibility verified and, further, cannot avail himself of the easy process of obtaining a photo ID then that person shouldn’t vote…and, indeed, the intellectual and moral level of the voting populace will be raised if such layabouts are not able to pollute the voting process with an ill-informed (and likely purchased) vote. At the soup kitchen I see homeless people who manage to be in possession of things far more difficult to obtain than a photo ID (and I’ll bet most of them have such; though we don’t ask for one as there is no reason to verify an ID when you’re passing out food). Anyone who tries to tell me that early voter registration and photo IDs are a burden – or, worse, an attempt to suppress voting – will be considered by me as a person who is either deliberately advancing a con, or someone who has been entirely gulled by a con artist.
Mr Noonan,
For someone who has constantly over the past eight years cried about how America is moving away from traditional values I find this rather surprising.
I feel that everyone eligible to vote should vote. You do understand that the right to vote is not in the Constitution anywhere as I do. But to place barriers to voting changes the fundamental dynamic of any democracy. Anyone who qualifies under state law should be able to vote. and technology on your planet has advanced to a point where persons can register online or even at the polls on election day.
I don’t feel that American elections are rife with fraud and I am sure you feel the same way when the candidates of your ideology win, but to deny voting rights when having a voice in government is most crucial is a miscarriage of democracy. In shorter terms I feel that you realize the only way Conservatives can win big is to deny the voting rights of minorities, the poor and the youth of America with such rules.
In shorter terms I feel that you realize the only way Conservatives can win big is to deny the voting rights of minorities, the poor and the youth of America with such rules – Cav
Well you are good and regurgitating talking points, and what’s with the “your planet” comment? Bizarre.
Requiring photo ID is hardly restrictive and one would think that smart people, whom liberals consider themselves to be, would understand that. Photo ID is required to collect welfare and I have yet to hear a liberal claim that that requirement is biased towards minorities. Also, considering that the recent elections of 2008, 2010, and 2012 have seen huge voter turn out, the accusation of voter suppression just doesn’t float.
Cluster you mjust admit that the least documented among Americans are the poor, the young and minorities. These are large liberal voting blocs generally and the Right has moved to attack these groups by making it more difficult to vote. Why not just allow everyone to register to vote online by way of a personal identification number? This would register virtually everyone in the country. I would tie this in with registration drives at gorcery stores pharmacies and state welfare offices where proof can be shown and the difficulty of going to a courthouse or DMV is eliminated.
Cav,
Your mental gymnastics you’re performing to get around the very, very simple requirement of having a photo ID is hilarious. Everyone needs a photo ID to do essentially anything; ie: collect welfare, rent a movie, check out a book, open a bank account, or drive. In fact, if an officer stops me on the street and I don’t have ID, it is incumbent upon the officer to determine my identity, and if I mislead him, I can be arrested.
Why is the left so adamant on not requiring photo ID? Is it because you simply think people are too stupid, or too incapable of getting one? Liberals really need to think more highly of their constituents.
Getting a state issue photo ID is simple, affordable and anyone can do it.
Cluster you make my point for me. Then why have voter registration at all? Just show up at the polls with a valid ID and vote.
Cav,
Why do want to compromise the most important part of our democracy – voting. I don’t get that. Pre registration is as equally important as having the proof at the polls that you are, who you are. It’s not difficult to register and then show up at the polls with proof of identity. It’s a simple task that all Americans are capable of. You need to expect more from others.
wow cav, you can be so conflicting.
First you state that there is no right to vote… then you complain that asking for an ID can place a barrier to voting!
That is like complaining during Prohibition that “you don’t have a right to alchohol, but complain that there is a barrier to drinking!!!!
But you do have the talking points down like a good little mindless drone. I guess indoctrination takes precedence over logic.
Pathetic.
That should be:
“That is like STATING during Prohibition that “you don’t have a right to alchohol”, but complain that there is a barrier to drinking!!!!
Cav, no wonder you are so upset all the time. You spin simple fact into emotion-laden things like “attacks” on those you identify as “large (L)iberal voting blocs” and then react to your own inventions. You are just a little emotional perpetual motion machine, feeding yourself what you need to stay worked up and then using your hysteria to support your inventions.
Just back up a minute, put those emotions into neutral, and see if you can look at the situation from a different perspective.
Fact: Voting is a right of citizens of the United States, unless legally deprived of that right, such as being convicted of a felony.
Fact: To vote, one must be registered, and be a citizen of the nation and of the precinct in which the ballot is cast.
Fact: To vote, one must be at least 18 years of age.
Are you with me so far?
You appear to be saying that there is something inherently wrong with asking someone to verify that he or she meets the simple requirements of citizenship, residence, and age.
It’s OK to have to verify these things to cash a check, fly on a plane, apply for public assistance, drive, open a bank account, go see Michelle Obama, etc. But not to vote?
You claim that “…the least documented among Americans are the poor, the young and minorities…” Upon what do you base this assertion?
“The poor” tend to receive government assistance, and to qualify they have to have documentation of their names, ages, and birthdates. So you appear to be saying that “the poor” who do not receive any government assistance, never apply for such aid, never have to cash a check, are “the poor” you are so worried about.
“The young” Do you really know anyone who is “young” but at least 18 years of age who has no identification? Really? No birth certificate, no drivers license, no state-issued ID of any kind? And who can’t figure out how to get such ID?
You appear to be fretting about some mysterious group of “the young” who do not know how to drive, or go online to learn how to get photo IDS for non-drivers, who do not have jobs or have bank accounts or have to cash checks, or fly on commercial carriers.
Again, this would be quite a small group, of socially isolated, technologically illiterate, home-schooled (because public schools require birth certificates), non-driving, unemployed, “young” who never need to cash a check or purchase anything except with mysteriously gained cash.
This leaves “minorities”. And why, exactly, do these “minorities” lack identification? Naturalized citizens have plenty of ID and can easily get photo ID if they want to—after going through the naturalization process, they not only have become familiar with bureaucracy, they probably have lawyers who can help them. (And BTW, they have had to pass English proficiency exams, so they do not need translators, a fact indignantly pointed out to me by a proud and recently naturalized citizen.) So what IS a “minority”? Women? People of darker skin pigment? Left-handed albinos? You people toss this word around all the time as if it has some absolute meaning.
So what is it about being a “minority” that makes it so much harder to get a photo ID? Lack of intelligence? Lack of ambition?
After all, we have shown that they would have to, in addition to being part of some “minority” be unemployed, non-driving, non-traveling-by-air, people without bank accounts, who are not on public assistance but never have to cash checks, and evidently be impaired by some minority-related condition which would make it hard if not impossible to get to a location where a photo ID could be issued.
In other words, this “large voting bloc” seems to be pretty darned small, and furthermore one of choice. Therefore, the inability to cast a vote would also be one of choice.
As for the “attack” thing, that is just more shrill Leftist hyperbole, baseless but for some reason quite important to a certain kind of person.
This bizarre lie, which you seem to cherish as you have referred to in in one way or another a couple of times— “In shorter terms I feel that you realize the only way Conservatives can win big is to deny the voting rights of minorities, the poor and the youth of America with such rules.” describes not a fact but merely a figment of your overheated and hate-driven delusions.
No one wants to deny anyone any voting “right”. What we do want to do is protect the voting rights of people who are actually eligible to vote, people for whom you seem to have great contempt.
You are too intellectually lazy to actually learn anything about actual political systems so you can make an intelligent and objective decision about which you support, but merely drift into the one that supports and validates your ignorance, your indolence, and your need to hate. And because you are so ignorant and so bigoted, the only way you can deal with the fact that you are in a distinct minority is to pretend that the Other, the object of your loathing and paranoia, is really just cheating, somehow. To acknowledge the reality that more thinking people prefer the Other to your feverswamp hallucinations and fantasies would be too threatening, so you have to invent excuses and lies to explain what happens.
Cav,
Voting is not so much a right as a responsibility – and if a person can’t take a little (and it just a tiny, tiny bit) of responsibility about ensuring they register in advance and have proper ID, then I’ve no sympathy for them not being able to vote. No more than I have sympathy for the lazy student who doesn’t study for the test or the person who can’t get to the airport early enough to ensure getting to the plane on time. This is not a high hurdle – this is something much less taxing than, say, setting up a new I-phone account or registering a car…and what do you want to bet that the “voter” asking for same-day registration using a crumbled phone bill as “ID” never fails to ensure that when its something they care about, they dot the “i” and cross the “t” with perfection?
Cluster, all you need to know about Cav is stated by “him” in “his” profile: Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J
Dis, Hell
I am a demon journalist with the distinctive privilege of being the sixth Editor-in-Chief of The Dis Brimstone Daily Pitchfork the most widely circualting daily newspaper in Hell. I and my staff of writers are here to make you think about the First Lives you are living and the Afterlife that is certain to come.
It’s been obvious that mentally ol’ Cav is on a different planet, so his reference to ours is hardly surprising.
“the Truth shall set you free,” madam.
tired,
You must keep in mind the differences between rights and privileges. Both voting and consuming alcohol are privileges granted to citizens by the states. When you buy a bottle of liquor you show an ID to prove you are legal drinking age you, however are not asked each time you pour a glass to show a second form of ID or a drinking registration card. .
I have no issue with registering to vote but once that is done you should not have to show another ID to cast your ballot.
I have no issue with registering to vote but once that is done you should not have to show another ID to cast your ballot.
Why? It’s just common sense Cav. What if I knew you and lived in the same community? I knew you were a liberal and registered to vote but away on vacation, so on election day, I walk in and tell them that I am you and vote republican. Then I realize your wife is with you, so I send in my wife and she votes for your wife too. That can easily be done, as can a lot of other fraudulent things on election day. Again, photo ID is a really, really simple requirement, and should be absolutely mandatory when electing the most powerful person in the world. It also helps maintain the integrity of – one person, one vote.
I have no issue with registering to vote but once that is done you should not have to show another ID to cast your ballot.
That begs the question: should you have to show a photo ID to register? Apparently in New Hampshire they don’t. Photo IDs would prevent this sort of voter fraud.
When you buy a bottle of liquor you show an ID to prove you are legal drinking age you, however are not asked each time you pour a glass to show a second form of ID or a drinking registration card.
Cavalor, your example is flawed. The only time it would apply is if you registered and voted at the same time, which, apparently, a lot of people in Madison, WI, did on Tuesday. If you buy a bottle of liquor at liquor store today, I guarantee they will ask you for ID again if you buy another bottle next week. If you register to vote today, you should be required to show you are the same person who registered when you vote on November 6th.
“The truth shall set you free.”
The “truth” in this case being that your actually have earned credentials represented by those letters you tack on after your nom de blog, that you really are a demon, and that you really are an editor, really writing for a newspaper from Hell?
Hmmmmmm. Are you by any chance also part of a collective intelligence and from another planet, like another persona sharing your fantasy?
“Truth” eh?
But then you are the one who suggested the LA Times and the Washington Post as sources of nonpartisan information.
Yes, adults always do turn to fantasy role-playing juveniles for “truth”.
If you register to vote today, you should be required to show you are the same person who registered when you vote on November 6th.
Cav, you still haven’t answered my questions about the source of your repeated claim that the most undocumented people in this country are, as you put it, “the poor, the young and minorities”.
Do you really expect to just make claims like that and have them accepted as fact, without a single thing to back them up?
I am particularly interested in seeing your data on why “the young” are so, as you put it, “undocumented”. The young in this nation are the most documented generation in the history of the world, with birth certificates, social security numbers issued at birth, and school records going back to those two identity proofs, even before getting their driver learning permits at 15 or so and then their driving licenses at 16, plus of course the mandatory selective service registration for young men upon reaching voting age. Naturally I am wondering how you arrived at your conclusion, in the face of so much contradictory fact.
Begin with a false premise and build a fallacious argument from there.
That statement simply isn’t true. The “disenfranchised” of which the delusional (I’ll be reporting your IP address to the Bar Assn in your state, ESQUIRE indeed!) “demon” is suddenly concerned are the most documented individuals in the country; they are the same group of state dependent welfare recipients, moochers and takers in all of history. The same “unfortunates” that receive state issued checks, state issued medical identification cards, state issued “dignity cards” and state issued child benefit packages are the ones claiming they are unfairly singled out when asked to produce any documentation to vote.
The real “disenfranchised” are the illegals, the felons, the frauds posing as someone else to cast multiple votes for the carton of Kools and two 44s they were promised for every vote they cast.
They can’t continue the scam if the state is actually going to check to see if someone retains the privilege of voting.
Kevlar Epithet, Just a Dude
as usual cav, you miss the point and your reading comprehension is as dismal as obAMATEUR’s presidency.
Again, first you say there is no explicit right to vote, but then complain that asking for ID is a barrier to voting. Shall I connect the dots for you, now?
Here is another example….
If I change addresses, I go to the Post Office and fill out the necessary form, I have to show my ID. If I receive a package and I am not there to receive it, then when I go to the Post Office (where I registered my address and showed ID) and present the receipt the mailman left, I HAVE TO SHOW MY ID AGAIN!!!!
So your logic is again extremely faulty to non-existant to think that showing ID once at registration will be sufficient for all times in the future.
You have inhaled the dumbed down talking points without question. You cannot change your ways! What a good little mindless drone you are!!!
There is a bizarre disconnect here – the people who were assuring us of Obama’s billion dollar re-election fund are complaining about money in politics as well as assuring us that the massive turnout in Wisconsin’s election signals the death of democracy. These are not people who think – these are not people who rationally construct a line of thought a to b to c. They just say whatever makes them think they look best saying. The Walker victory – punditry aside – is the harbinger of a crushing Democrat defeat this November but I actually have a bit of a worry…people who act as the Democrats do are not rational and are not likely to weigh the consequences of any given action…and the coming defeat of Obama just might completely unhinge these people.
and the coming defeat of Obama just might completely unhinge these people.
Mark, I think that’s pretty much a given. The only question is what form that unhinging will take. I wouldn’t want to be living anywhere near a major metro area on November 7th if Obama loses.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-teachers-take-strike-authorization-vote-today-20120606,0,7317616.story
Not one word about the students they are supposed to be teaching. “Union Power” and 30% pay raises are what they want.
Communist, socialist, fascist, progressive, whatever you call them, they stink.
Ed Schultz is now lecturing union members who stray from the plantation and picking up where Obama left off in lecturing those who “cling to their guns and Bibles”:
There’s some disconnect here that I think union membership in this country has to get at the war table and figure out what’s the problem. What a minute. Wait a second. That’s right. President Obama brought this up years ago on the campaign trail when he said folks in rural areas cling to their guns and their religion. And he was criticized for it. Example A right there.
The democrats have become a very narrow party, and now can only count public union bosses and women who want to kill their children as their base
Ubama the COMMIE
Obama’s Third-Party History
New documents shed new light on his ties to a leftist party in the 1990s.
By Stanley Kurtz
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Barack Obama campaigns for the Illinois state senate in the mid-1990s.
On the evening of January 11, 1996, while Mitt Romney was in the final years of his run as the head of Bain Capital, Barack Obama formally joined the New Party, which was deeply hostile to the mainstream of the Democratic party and even to American capitalism. In 2008, candidate Obama deceived (LIED) the American public about his potentially damaging tie to this leftist
party
Isn’t this Odd?
Sarah Palin’s husband was once affiliated with a group that advocated separating Alaska from the Union and it was front page of the New York Times and Washington Post; lead off the news on CBS, ABC, CNN, NBC, and MSNBC for a week.
Imagine the outrage if it had actually been Sarah Palin and not her husband.
No traction … what a buffoon.
Kevlar Epithet, Just a Dude
double standard????????
say it aint soooooo
article here
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/302031/obamas-third-party-history-stanley-kurtz#
This nonsense gains no traction anywhere except in far right blogs and chatrooms.
……and several contemporaneous public records, of course—records of the New Party and its own comments, no less, hardly “far right” sources.
Cav,
The issue, really, is why the left just lets it all slide: this man, Obama, has clearly re-written his biography several times over his life. Each time in order to advance himself. This indicates a lack of principal…and you ignore it.
Poor Eric Holder — just can’t catch a break.
Until Issa takes some concrete action against Holder and barky’s DOJ it is lip service. Making a lot of noise. Nothing else.
Still has to be one of the best Drudge headlines I have read in recent history;
Holder Claims Emails Using Words ‘Fast and Furious’ Don’t Refer to Operation ‘Fast and Furious’…
Socialism at work. What Cav at his type want to bring to the United States.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pharmacy-queues-show-price-greeks-are-paying-for-credit-breakdown-7821236.html
Thomas
The TEA Party is alive and well.
http://fund47.blogspot.com/2012/06/press-lines-up-to-interview-san.html
he is a zebra??
Chris Rock: ‘We Ignore the President’s Whiteness, But It‘s There’
“I love our president, but he’s, you know, he’s black and white.”
Reminds me of a new slant on an old joke from when we were kids: what’s black and white and red all over? The answer then was a newspaper. The new answer is Barack Obama.
House Ethics Committee Resumes Case Against Maxine Waters
the insane asylum is next to investigate……
Mark’s update to this post is a must read. Jennifer Rubin absolutely nails it.
She did nail it indeed – pretty hard to say it any better than that