While running through the Facebook thread, I came across the following quote:
To be beautiful means to be yourself. You don’t need to be accepted by others, you need to accept yourself. – Thich Nhat Hanh
Thich, as it turns out, is a Vietnamese Buddhist monk who has gained some vogue in the West – probably initially from the fact that he was one of those dimwits during the Vietnam War who figured that if the United States would just leave and the war just “end” then everything would be just swell. How anyone by the 1960’s could think that a communist regime would (a) seek cooperation with non-communists or (b) be anything less than hideously brutal once triumphant is beyond my understanding. But, of course, Thich wasn’t alone – around the world literal tens of millions thought the same way. In other words, they thought stupidly. But no one ever called them that. Reading the quote listed above, though, got me thinking that we who refuse to be stupid have to be a bit more forceful lest stupidity overwhelm us.
Because someone would only post a quote like that if they thought it wasn’t stupid. You only post something like that if you think it wise. But, my goodness, what a vapid bunch of pantheist nonsense is wrapped up in that short quote! To be beautiful means to be be yourself? What if yourself is a drug addict? Or a thief? Or a lazy bum? It is, indeed, true that you don’t need to be accepted by others but before you go accepting yourself isn’t it rather important to determine if yourself is worthy of respect? Suppose you’re a hooker or a con artist – are you supposed to accept that yourself?
This, I think, is what Chesterton was on about when he opined that “Christianity wasn’t tried and found lacking, it was found difficult and not tried at all”. The key requirement of a Christian – and, actually, of any wise person – is to understand the grave flaws in the self and the need for salvation. Christians hold that the person needs to be washed in the blood of the Lamb in order to fix what is wrong with us – but even wise, pagan philosophers of the past who knew nothing of that realized that human beings are flawed; that the unexamined life is not worth living…that if we are to be anything better than brutes then we’d better be realistic about ourselves and strive to become better. Quotes like that of Thich presume that we’re just fine as we are – and as soon as we get happy about the way we are, the better. That we might be a complete piece of garbage doesn’t seem to work in to the picture.
I saw a sign the other day – “I fear a world of adults who were never spanked and who got awards for merely participating”. It is a world where people aren’t punished nor challenged to win which is the result of having a philosophy of “you just need to accept yourself”. In other words, a world full of stupid people comes about from believing really stupid things. Among the most stupid things a person can believe is that he’s a swell guy – as soon as you start thinking that you can rest assured that you are a piece of filth fooling himself. All of us have to strive – it is a struggle to be good; it is hard to be decent…but the payoff is that the more we struggle the better we are and the better the world is. Just as soon as we lay off fighting to improve ourselves and adopt an “I’m ok, you’re ok” philosophy we start to have an increasingly brutal and merciless society. No surprise, in my view, that as the old Judeo-Christian ethic started to fade (say around 1890) that we started down a path of murder and mayhem.
We really need a movement on this – some commitment to first think about what we read and hear and if, upon pondering the message, we determine that it is stupid we then go and point out that it was stupid. To be sure, none of us wants to be offensive – but do we really want to allow idiocy to go unchallenged? It is time for us to show some guts – to stop allowing idiot statements to slide past. It really is crucial to our survival – if we don’t start insisting upon reality, then unreality will overwhelm us and destroy our civilization.
Blogs For Victory 
I notice that some of your comments in this post seem to be :”religious”. But when I left the following brief invitation and a link to a “religious” statement that I had on my website in regard to your post on “War on Poverty, Fail’: “For a very basic statement regarding this issue, I invite anyone to read this statement on “Economic Security”: Economic Security”; I received the following instructions from the “Moderator”: “We try to avoid censorship and believe in free speech but ask you to remember that this is a political blog and not the proper venue for proselytizing. With respect for your role as a minister and religious blogger we still ask that you not attempt to use this blog merely to advance your religious views. //Moderator”
What is the policy regarding the mention of religion or the inclusion of “religious” statements on this “political” blog? Please clarify this for me. Your response may also be helpful for some of your other readers. Thanks.
What America Really Needs: An Anti-
Stupiditycommunist Movement.communism breeds stupidity and drones, it breeds laziness, sloth.
It is an evil murderous, anti religious, total control at the point of a gun, barbed wire and bondage form of government. with a chosen few at the top living like kings.
in fact kind of like islam…….twins?
bub1
What is the policy regarding the mention of……insert here…
only the SHADOW knows…….
I got posts bumped from the thread for mentioning the mayor of chicago is in agreement with the councilman against Chic Fil A, and that he reportedly (rhom) belongs to a gay mens club/bathouse. which to me leads into an agenda by the leftist homosexual AGENDA…..supposedly off topic……
hey, I post they delete as they see fit, Im ok wit dat are you?
To be sure, none of us wants to be offensive
HUH?
koff koff
Bob,
Generally try to stay on topic and while there is no general complaint about linking to a blog, even if its a personal blog, we prefer if you have something to say that you say it here.
Mark, I’ll try to briefly make my points in comments right here, but I see numerous links to other statements or articles or reports by other commentators, as from neocon1 above, so I still don’t understand when it is OK to cite links to other sources.
bobby
as from neocon1 above
GET OVER IT crybaby…..wah wah wah
We don’t really need a war on stupidity. That would be a losing war no matter what resources you put into it. Unless you are going to shut down every single public school and university, collectivist big government, everything for the state types will continue to be turned out.
It will be a never ending war.
How do you teach responsibility to those who reject all responsibility, whether for
themselves or anyone else? Nothing is ever their fault. You see it very well by people like thomas, watson, the forkers, and others. They have learned that someone else is to blame foe whatever they think is wrong in the world.
The only hope I see is for the collectivist to start their revolution. It is coming sooner or later and my guess is that the collectivist are getting tired of waiting for their fair share of everyone else’s wealth.
Soon.
GMB
it has already begun in Kalifornia, tremors now, full blown citys burning riots and mayhem this august.
we have been warned by OWS, NOI, van jones, fartacan, je$$e, al, teamsters, SEIU, ubama, and holder…..
PS
you would have to send half the population elsewhere to end stupidity, and that would be raaaacist.
I have long thought that most liberals are on the short side of the brain equation and another case in point is Obamacare. Tell me how everyone having health insurance equates to good health care. It doesn’t. Health insurance is not health care, it’s simply a document, and pretty much a worthless one at that. Many doctors have long ago stopped taking medicare patients due to the paperwork involved, the turn time on their money, and the fact that what they do finally get paid, is less than what some of the service costs are. So what’s the liberals answer? Add more people to the medicare rolls – brilliant.
So now we will have more “insured” medicare patients, and less doctors to care for them. In fact in a recent poll, 83% of the doctors said that they are thinking of leaving their practice following the full implementation of Obamacare.
If you want better, and more affordable health care, get the government out of the way, let insurance companies compete for business, and incentivize and encourage people to become doctors. Let the health care industry operate like any other free market industry. Competition is what brings prices down. Government stifles competition. Do the math.
Like in Fla 20 some years ago, workers comp cost less that $400.00 a year.
The state got involved to stop the eeevil insurance companies and lower our “high” rates.
those “high” rates went from $400.00 a year to $4000.00++ a year.
Thanks goberment!!
“To be beautiful means to be yourself. You don’t need to be accepted by others, you need to accept yourself. ” Thich Nhat Hanh
There is a long tradition in philosophy of mixing up the words beauty, truth, happiness, contentment etc. Aristotle in the Ethics points to the telos (goal) of human life as Eudaimonia which is translated nowadays as happiness but should be properly translated as flourishing or contentment as living in ones own skin. This is not too far from Thich’s wording “To be beautiful means to be yourself. ”
The New Testament exegete N.T. Wright has a magnificent book on the subject of modern virtue and character as seen in videos like
Of course in the Christian tradition we must concern ourselves with being acceptable to God, which we are through the work of Jesus Christ. One can hardly expect a Buddhist monk such as Thich to hold to that point of view, but the first half of the premise in the second statement is essentially “Be Not Conformed to this World! Romans 12:2”
One of the most annoying things among liberals is the idea that the GOP is filled with a bunch of stupid people who need to be educated. At least the GOP holds to the correct notion that people hold their opinions mostly out of immediate self-interest.
baldork
Thich’s wording “To be beautiful means to be yourself. ”
Ill pass that along to hitler, mao, joe, ted bundy, fidel and the rest of the leftists murderers.
baldork
in the Christian tradition we must concern ourselves with being acceptable to God, which we are through the
workDEATH of Jesus on the cross, and acceptance of HIM in our hearts.New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
What he says isn’t particularly stupid, though it is rather soft…it talks of the transformation of character but doesn’t seem to concentrate much on the absolute necessity of Christ…that, as Jesus says, without him we can do nothing. But for our purposes here, that isn’t the crucial point – we’re looking for stupid and my example (“just accept yourself”) is a statement of monumental stupidity. And it is just one of a hundred such statements we’ve all heard. The trouble is that when we allow stupidity to take the field (and especially when it is not just stupid, but a lie) then we’re dooming ourselves to destruction. We need to great real, again – and get rational.
Dooming ourselves to destruction is right on schedule and began with the defeat of the family, diminishing/defeating the purpose of parenting. The purpose was to teach, guide, just as our Holy Father does. About right and wrong, survival, the value of hard work and feeling of accomplishment through striving and earning our way, commitment, honor, integrity, earning respect by being respectable and respectful of others, responsibility for ones actions including dealing with failure, punishment, consequences, setbacks,….all of which taught us, made us stronger, wiser and more capable individuals. The “state” has not taught our children these things they must learn to be whole, fulfilled humans and they are too busy trying to be our lord to take instruction from Our Lord. For the sake of our children, we must reject the governments usurpation of our rights and responsibilities as parents. We have seen enough proof of how that worked out already.
Very good post Shawney.
Mr. Noonan,
You know, on the previous thread regarding the homosexual activists not welcoming the restaurant Chick-fil-A into Chicago, well, Rahm Emmanuel made statements that they aren’t welcome there.
I got to thinking more on the statement you made about people not being willing to do the hardest most generous thing one can do, that being marrying and having children. Well, while that is a hard thing to do, what I think is even really harder for our society, is taking up the Cross, living lives acceptable to Christ Jesus. I fail many times in my own life, in that I don’t read and study my Bible like I should, and pray like I should. I have to admit, I fail God in many aspects of my life. But, on the whole, on a societal basis, the Cross is so heavy and burden to bear, because it asks us to deny ourselves and take responsibility in our words and actions. And people don’t want to do that, today. People today, want to live “care-free” lives, and let others take responsibility for their lifestyles.
Jeremiah,
I try to keep things as secular as possible when writing – for Christians, though, the hardest thing they’ll do is deny themselves, take up their cross and follow Jesus…but the good news is that Our Lord carries most of it.
I’m afraid the stupid cannot be stopped. But, on the bright side, it can be harvested.
P.S. It’s humiliating that Republicans outspend Democrats three to one creating these “jobs.” You guys win. Hands down. No, I mean it…keep your hands down or we’ll call security.
George Carlin was right. Mr. Rogers destroyed an entire generation of Americans.
Dollars to donuts they don’t do as much business among convention-goers than the MSM is making out…though I’m sure they’ll have more than their fair share of journalists. This is just a “see how lousy those GOPers are” MSM meme…but I doubt that even a sizable minority of attendees will go to such places…they can be barely excused when you’re 25 and out with the boys; a person 35 looks like a fool; a person older than that is just pathetic.
Bozo,
What have you got against strip clubs? An age old profession that is, for the most part, harmless adult fun. Or would you prefer to tax and regulate this industry too? Is that your problem? Do the strippers not pay enough taxes for you?
It is a never ending game of gotcha. That and racism!!! You wingnuts make me sick. 😛
blowzo
George Carlin was right. Mr. Rogers destroyed an entire generation of Americans
isnt he DEAD??
PS
EVERYBODY knows the mons venus is Tampas #1 club (so I have heard)
We can always count on freakzo illustrating his political focus.
Is it big central government vs small, Constitutional central government?
Is it out of control spending?
Is it the assumption of both legislative and judicial powers by the executive branch?
Is it a disasterous economic philosophy that is crippling the nation?
Is it the prevalence of radical Leftists in the highest levels of federal government?
Is it the callous manipulation of the emotions of American citizens to first divide us into groups and then set those groups against each other, to gain and keep political power?
Is it the rampant corruption at the highest levels that has the executive branch handing out billions of taxpayer dollars to political cronies?
Is it the first openly stated policy of a government official that the ability to do business will depend on political and philosophical agreement with that of the government?
Is it—–but you get the idea.
And the answer is no.
What the freak clown finds of great importance, and what gets him tittering, is the voyeuristic anticipation of adults watching scantily clad women “dance”.
This is what is so fascinating about the blog trolls and vandals here. While they sneer at anything they think might be related to “the Right” it is soon apparent that all they DO is sneer. At some point we have all looked at the swill they dump here and wondered “Is this really all they think about? Is this really what they think is important? Is this the kind of mentality that decides how our nation will be governed?”
And of course we come to the conclusion that as long as we have so many who are so easily distracted by the current version of bread and circuses, the Left will be able to prevail because there are not enough thinking people, who understand what the Left is all about, who understand the risk to our nation of further deviations from our rule of law, who even THINK about government when they think of politics. What we see here, representing the Left, is people who never get past personality and scandal and gleeful heehaws and gotchas.
We notice that the Left does not run on political philosophy, does not try to appeal to people with reason and fact, but depends on the bozos of the country, who couldn’t care less about the implications of an Imperial White House that simply decrees law but who get quite excited and giggly about the idea of Republicans going to strip clubs.
They know their base, and more and more, as people like bozo trumpet what they think is important, we also know their base. And from what we can see here, it is a silly, vapid, clueless conglomeration of people with no interest in actual government but who titter till pee runs down their legs at the opportunity to sneer and snipe at people who represent a system they also decline to understand.
There must be a teeny tiny kernel of self-awareness somewhere in the freak clown’s subconscious, because he did put his post on the “What America Really Needs: An Anti-Stupidity Movement” thread. Thanks for proving the title so correct.
Great synopsis Amazona. A centralized, authoritarian government depends on a distracted and ignorant populace. Bozo personifies that, as do James, Mitch, Diane, etc.
I like to go to wikipedia for some definitions, as this site is so beloved by the Left. (emphasis mine)
” “Bread and Circuses” (or bread and games) (from Latin: panem et circenses) is a metaphor for a superficial means of appeasement. Juvenal decried it as a simplistic motivation of common people and hence the political strategy implied. In the case of politics, the phrase is used to describe the creation of public approval, not through exemplary or excellent public service or public policy, but through diversion, distraction, and/or the mere satisfaction of the immediate, shallow requirements of a populace. The phrase also implies the erosion or ignorance of civic duty amongst the concerns of the common man (l’homme moyen sensuel).
…………………………..
This phrase originates from Rome in Satire X of the Roman satirist and poet Juvenal (circa 100 C.E.). In context, the Latin metaphor panem et circenses (bread and circuses) identifies the only remaining cares of a new Roman populace which cares not for its historical birthright of political involvement. Here Juvenal displays his contempt for the declining heroism of his contemporary Romans. Roman politicians devised a plan in 140 B.C.E. to win the votes of these new citizens: Giving out cheap food and entertainment, “bread and circuses”, would be the most effective way to rise to power.
So what we see now is the handing out of “bread”—-food, housing, money, cell phones—and “entertainment”—Bill Maher, super-violent movies and television—to both buy votes and deaden the concept of civil responsibility.
Now the only responsibility the Left asks of its base is the responsibility of unceasing attacks, no matter how superficial or false, on its opposition. Instead of promoting political knowledge, as do the TEA Party and Constitutional Conservatives, it decries such awareness of the realities of the ideology of each competing system and tells its acolytes that real politics is about sneering, ridicule and vicious personal attacks.
How often have we seen even the slightest effort of anyone on the Left to engage in an actual reasonable discussion on this blog? I’ve been here since 2004 and I have seen one. ONE. And that was the lengthy discussion on the topic of Natural Born Citizen.
The rest of what we see here is silly nonsense like how much money strip clubs might make when Republicans are in town, and name-calling such as the virulence that seems to have finally gotten Dave exiled.
The thing is, to these people, what they are saying IS political discourse, because this is all they know. We see them scurry away from talking about which political system is the best blueprint for governing the country, we see them refusing to answer any question about what empirical evidence of the superiority of their system they can provide to explain their support of it. And we see silliness, personal attacks, nonsense, bloviating, and example after example of the success of the bread and circus approach to winning and keeping the small-minded.
More liberal stupidity – sorry for the redundancy. It seems that liberals in South Carolina are questioning the Governors ethics due to ………. wait for it …………. Her 14 year old daughters, $8/hr part time job in the State House gift shop. I kid you not.
http://www.thestate.com/2012/07/26/2368524/governors-daughter-gets-state.html#.UBCsCjGe4dU
Of course examples of liberal stupidity can be found every day, and nearly every minute depending how often you actually pay attention.
stupid is not knowing what is an entrance or an exit.
then being PROUD of that….DUH!!
cluster
if it ended with stupidity it would be funny, but they are a stupid and a DANGEROUS lot.
BINGO
The question is Neo, did Ray sing that song on his own or did he have help from the government? Ya got to think of these things don’t ya know.
😛
Das Vydana tovarich!
Well, and they aren’t satisfied just being stupid either. They want to rebrand that stupid as something else and sprinkle it on our Corn Flakes because they imagine they’re more intelligent and know what’s good for us. Kinda like putting mustard on a turd. You still know what it is. They’re delusional dangerous and history bares that out……well, unless they do a good job of rewriting it….oh wait.
Welcome Shawny – good posts
But cluster, don’t you see the insidious and harmful message this girl’s job sends to the nation? That you are supposed to WORK for what you get?
Pretty scary…….
We need to nationalize the strip clubs. Then bozo would be ok with it.
LOL
The Queen of Stupid has spoken:
“I think [Obama] will” win the Jewish vote, Pelosi said, when pressed on the subject. “I think that he will, because the fact is when the facts get out. You know, as many of the Republicans are using Israel as an excuse, what they really want are tax cuts for the wealthy. So Israel, that can be one reason they put forth.” – Nancy Pelosi
With brain dead people like Pelosi in charge, we are sure to fail. She is an embarrassment to this country.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/pelosi-republican-jews-being-exploited_649077.html
Drat! She’s figured it out – we’re only supporting Israel until we can cut taxes for the wealthy! Who leaked this information?
Ran from what question Davey? You’re hilarious. Such an infantile mind.
I never said he would lose the Jewish vote. I simply pointed out Pelosi’s brain dead comment that really made no sense whatsoever.
Any other stupid questions?
“She is an embarrassment to this country. ”
I beg to disagree. An embarrassment would be a step up Lets not give her any undeserved credit.
hear hear
Referencing the point of my earlier post, I found this article this morning:
RIVERSIDE, Calif. — In the Inland Empire, an economically depressed region in Southern California, President Obama’s health care law is expected to extend insurance coverage to more than 300,000 people by 2014. But coverage will not necessarily translate into care: Local health experts doubt there will be enough doctors to meet the area’s needs. There are not enough now.
Won’t this be great! We will all have health insurance, but no doctors to go see. I think this issue above all others shows liberal stupidity in all it’s glory. How can you not understand that health insurance does not mean health care, and that current high healthcare costs are associated with government involvement so expanding governments role will only worsen the problem.
Next time you see a liberal, thank them for destroying our health care industry. Good times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/health/policy/too-few-doctors-in-many-us-communities.html?_r=2&partner=MYWAY&ei=5065
“Next time you see a liberal, thank them for destroying our health care industry. Good times. ”
They did not do it by themselves. Over 99 years of allowing progressivism to progress to this point took a lot of people to sacrifice their freedoms for security. We all know what that old dead white guy had to say about that subject, right?
The Department of Homeland Security has ordered masses of riot gear equipment to prepare for potential significant domestic riots at the Republican National Convention, Democratic National Convention and next year’s presidential inauguration.
Which political ideology has a recent history of violence? OWS? Or the Tea Party? It’s time to expunge brain dead liberals from our political ranks. Let’s start with Dave Bowman.
Cluster,
It is rather weird, isn’t it? I haven’t heard of any threats of violence at either convention – nor for January 20th. To be sure, we can count on it that kooks will always be around…but who is expecting an actual riot? I suspect an attempt at trying to stir up a riot at the RNC in order to give Romney some bad visuals as he takes the official nomination.
150 riot suits isn’t a big enough number to raise panic or control a decent sized convention crowd. Nor do I imagine Homeland Security has much of an interest in crowd control at the RNC. We conservatives are fully capable of making ourselves look bad without their help (of course they may wish to prove drone coverage for later uploads to YouTube). But here is an interesting report I read recently which is simply terrifying in its implications and one which this administration would go to great lengths to contain, cover up, control at least until the election in November. http://frontpagemag.com/2012/jamie-glazov/white-girl-bleed-a-lot/
Now picture this in all 50 states at your local polling places instead of Walmart. I don’t know how you could be more irresponsible than to not report these dangerous situations and allow innocent people to walk right into them on their family vacations. But then we’re talking about people who still feel no responsibility for trafficking arms to Mexican drug cartels and all the dead and injured which have resulted from their criminal acts.
Shawny,
Interesting – especially how the author correctly identifies at least part of the problem being what popular culture (in this case, that part of popular culture directly targeted at young, African-Americans) is feeding to people. Once again, feed people a steady diet of nihilist violence and what you’ll get is, surprise!, nihilist violence.
The real reason no one in the Establishment media or government wants to talk about it (and this would go for most of the conservative Establishment, as well) is simple fear: fear of being called a racist if you point out the fact that, from time to time, mobs of black people run amok for no identifiable reason.
I don’t think this will become a national issue until one of these flash mobs comes up against people who turn out to be armed – in other words, they try to do it in an area outside of liberal gun control…an exchange of gunfire between a mob and the target of the mob would leave quite a lot of people dead and immediately rocket it to the front pages. While the MSM and the Establishment would try to paint such an incident as nothing more than racist whites taking pot shots for no reason at a group of black people, the fact that video is so prevalent would swiftly blow such a contention out of the water…and the video of such a case would get shown because, politics aside, the news media lives off of juicy video tied to a hot story.
We’ll see how it comes out – the best result is, combined with a growing awareness of what caused Aurora, that more people come down on the side of censoring popular culture to get the filth out of it.
Sorry Dave Bowman – obviously your past ignorance and temper, or lack thereof, has precluded you from being a participant on this blog, and will most likely prevent you from becoming a mature adult. Good luck with that.
Would you be nice? Please!! 😛
I am trying my best. Does it not show? lol.
Stupidity knows no bounds; however, larger real-world examples of it are more useful than taking a quote by a Buddhist monk out of context and parsing it the way you did. Bardolf above did a service by parsing the quote in a broader philosophical context. The monk defined his own terms – don’t let other people determine your self-worth; insofar as anyone is beautiful, they also must be authentic. I don’t think he intended anyone to carry away from that the idea that “yourself” should be the lowest moral common denominator possible. That assumption seems just a little bit stupid all by itself.
On another note, Bardolf also said something else interesting: “At least the GOP holds to the correct notion that people hold their opinions mostly out of immediate self-interest.” I would note the qualifier “immediate” – it is too bad the GOP doesn’t form their opinions based more on long term self interest. But more on that anon.
A little bit stupid is one thing, but real big stupid could be illustrated by, say, all the enablers of the Bush admin (including plenty of Democrats) pushing us into an unfunded, unjustifiable war in Iraq, demonstrably based on falsehoods that millions of people were fully aware were false at the time. That war has cost countless thousands of human lives (real people, whole families massacred by U.S. actions – we easily forget this reality), millions of refugees (again real people plunged into long-term misery), trillions of dollars in U.S. debt and exponentially worsened geopolitical stability. Really Big Stupid.
Okay, that was then; right now Real Big Stupid is also Mitt Romney trying to outdo every other sycophant of Israel and acting as if this rogue state and ally of dubious character is actually United States’ friend. No, Israel is not our friend. We are theirs, it is a one-way street. We give them lots of money and weapons, they give nothing back. They even viciously attacked our military vessel USS Liberty in 1967, deliberately and in cold blood killing more U.S. service personnel than al Qaeda killed in the attack on the USS Cole – without consequence. But I digress. They treat their neighbors appallingly and the Palestinians whose land they occupy even worse, and threaten to drag us into another war even more disastrous than the ones we’re still not fully disengaged from. And you can be sure if Israel were not itself a nuclear state with a long history of bellicosity, with U.S. backing, Iran wouldn’t be so interested in having nukes. Real Big Stupid is not being able to see that, or to pull back far enough geopolitically and reason from cause to effect.
Really Big Stupid (and possibly treasonous as well) was Michell Bachmann saying “I am convinced in my heart and in my mind that if the United States fails to stand with Israel, that is the end of the United States.” That, as the Brits would say, is gob-smackingly stupid.
I won’t go too deeply into the “the old Judeo-Christian ethic” Mark refers to, except to observe nobody here will tolerate even defining those ethics within their proper historical context, much less honoring them. When they started to fade we didn’t just start on a path to murder and mayhem. Social and economic darwinism took the place of those Judeo-Chrsitian values and now nearly completely supplant them. Most of the social ills decried by conservatives today are an outgrownth of that fact. I understand it’s easier for Mark and B4V supporters to dismiss this kind of monumental stupidity out of hand and stick to damning minor-league stupidity, and even engaging in a bit of it themselves.
Speaking of the minor-league variety, even Mark’s paragon of wisdom G. K. Chesterton, conceded to a sort of charming stupidity as might be attributable to the Buddhist monk quoted at the top: “It is a dreadful thing to say that Mr. W.B. Yeats does not understand fairyland. But I do say it. He is an ironical Irishman, full of intellectual reactions. He is not stupid enough to understand fairyland. Fairies prefer people of the yokel type like myself; people who gape and grin and do as they are told.”
Of course context matters, and much as I appreciate Yeats I would be the last person to call Chesterton stupid. But Mark says (and I agree): “It is time for us to show some guts – to stop allowing idiot statements to slide past. It really is crucial to our survival.”
We just disagree on what’s more idiotic. As to our long-term self interest, Shawny above spoke of “dooming ourselves to destruction”. After the warmest May on record for the Northern Hemisphere – the 327th consecutive month in which the temperature of the whole earth exceeded the 20th-century average, the odds of which happening by chance are 3.7 x 10-99 (a number larger than the number of stars in the universe), it might be time to start paying attention to objective facts. Facts such as, every summer a quadrillion kernels of corn need to be pollinated across the grain belt, which they wont be able to do if temperatures keep elevating off the charts. Just like us, earth’s crops are adapted to the climatic stability to which we’re now waving buh-bye. See http://tinyurl.com/blk2sgf
Really big stupid (RBS) would be ignoring these and similar facts in favor of immediate self-interest. The gratification of short term profit over the wisdom of protecting our future. RBS would be shrugging and saying we have nothing to do with that, so let’s just keep on doing what we’ve been doing to the home planet.
Sorry for jumping around so much, but this is such a rich topic. Lots more kinds of RBS could be addressed but I don’t have time. However I won’t be surprised if Ama finds time for many column inches of rebuttal and character attacks.
Dennis,
Whatever point you were planning on making was destroyed when you repeated the stupid lie that people have been “massacred” by US soldiers. You owe every member of the United States Armed Forces – living and dead – an apology. As long as you go on like that with rank, slanderous insults you’re not going to get much of anywhere in convincing people.
James you are still not allowed to post here. //Moderator
James,
Yep, that proves it: only ignorant people who can’t cut it in the private sector work for the government.
Damned Skippy!! : )
Mark, this is one of the endearing and equally infuriating things about you – your stubborn naivete when it comes to your sacred cows. If you don’t understand that inocent people were massacred en masse by American GIs, you’re living in a fantasy world that’s unjustifiable for an adult who pontificates regularly on current events. I don’t expect you to read the link below but just maybe you’ll give it a skim. Hedges is a seasoned war correspondent. Here’s an excerpt:
During the Iraq war I read news dispatches from non-embedded, uncensored sources – in addition to the mainstream media, of course. This included some websites where US troops and mercenary contractors talked frankly about their experiences and uploaded photos. It was disturbing stuff, exactly like the excerpt above, but I felt it was important to get my news firsthand. A pity that apparently you were selecting only news that had been filtered and screened for political correctness.
I stand by everything I said and encourage you to broaden your thinking. It doesn’t help your credibility in the least to take such a facile exit from reality.
http://www.bostonreview.net/BR37.4/chris_hedges_war_soldiers_army_military_suicides_ptsd.php
Mark, in the event my first reply to your response above is deleted because it contained obscenities (quoted from the article I cited), let me remind you I said “by U.S. actions”, not by U.S. soldiers.
Of course it’s a fine distinction, but I was aware beforehand of your delicate sensibilities regarding U.S. troops. You seem to hold them sacrosanct, as if this generation has somehow been morally immunized to the timeless horrors of war. And that even after seeing photos from Abu Ghraib, after reading accounts of soldiers charged and in some cases convicted of horrible atrocities. No non-delusional person could believe these were anything less than the tip of a much larger iceberg.
And to think this conversation is happening on a thread calling for an “anti-stupidity movement.”
See http://tinyurl.com/clug6k8
tommy-boy is off his meds again: “its time you take the US military off the pedastal”
Without the military, you would not have the freedom to spew the crap that you do.
“… and start to admit that only the poorest, dumbest and most desperate among us, who can’t cut it in the private sector, go work for the government.”
Wow, tommy-boy, do you not see the irony of you last statement. You defend your pResident and party without question (holding them on a pedestal, BTW). obAMATEUR and Biden are two politicians whose private sector record is next to non-existent – these are two PROFESSIONAL politicians.
So you finally admit that they are “the poorest, dumbest and most desperate among us, who can’t cut it in the private sector”.
This is the most intelligent thing you have said EVER!
Hmmmm. A few rogue military people break the law, every now and then, and, in the fog of war, kill or as you claim “massacre” some people, and this is supposed to be an indictment of the whole military.
The key words here are “BREAK THE LAW”. There are laws against what they do, when the actions are intentional, and when those laws are broken the culprits are criminals. In this case they are just criminals in uniforms. In some cases they are not prosecuted but we agree that what they have done is illegal.
If we are going to indict whole demographics for the violence of some, let’s apply that standard across the board, shall we? If we are going to indict the military for the actions of a few, actions which violate the military’s standards of conduct, then let’s indict the political system that was responsible for the slaughter of tens or hundreds of millions, actions undertaken BY that system. Not just actions which happened to take place WITHIN the system, but actions dictated and carried out BY the system.
Do I hear James and dennis howling against the Leftist system of government? ??????????
I didn’t think so. Because these atrocities were carried out by THEIR guys.
But let’s move into something more contemporary, something closer to home, if we are going to indict a whole group of people for the actions of some. Gee, which group would be found universally guilty in these cases—the “journalists” who ignore the violence or the racial group that engages in it? In either case, or in both, if the standard is that the actions of some reflect on all, then instead of fussing about what may or may not have happened in the chaos of war and the emotional turmoil of being under violent attack and facing death every day, let’s look at the groups who calmly and callously plan violent attacks on others and condemn them AS A GROUP.
And don’t forget to indict the “law enforcement” who allow this to go on, who look the other way, who are as complicit in this outrage as the officer quoted by indignant dennis.
Excerpts from an interview with the author of White Girl Bleed a Lot: The Return of Racial Violence and How the Media Ignore It from Front Page Magazine: (emphasis mine)
“…….Chicago. Memorial Day 2011. Chicago had been the site of a series of black mob attacks in all different parts of the city. In the downtown, the gay area, the public transportation, and the beaches, to name a few. So during the Memorial Day holiday in 2011, hundreds and hundreds of black people descended on North Avenue Beach and starting beating up people, knocking them off their bikes, wreaking havoc. The next day, the city closed the beach. They said they did it, not because of the mob violence — they denied mob violence even took place there. They said they closed it because it was too hot. A local radio station got the 911 calls, and people who were there called the station, and that showed that the beach was the site of a big civil disturbance, and the police administrators were not telling the truth about it.
………………………………….
I documented hundreds of examples in more than 70 cities. And here is what happens. I hear about a riot or a mob and I check it out and learn that it was a large group of black people creating havoc. So I write the details. In the course of reporting it, or after the story comes out, I almost always hear: “That’s been happening here a long time.” But reporters are afraid to write about it. City officials are afraid to combat it, or call it by its name. So it goes on. And it is not just the places where you might expect it: Chicago, Philly, Boston, Baltimore. It’s in smaller places in the Midwest as well.
FP: Like where?
Flaherty: Ames, Iowa. They had a “Beat Whitey Night” at the State Fair. Peoria, Illinois. They had almost a dozen episodes of racial violence and lawlessness by black mobs over the last year. Milwaukee. Minneapolis. Seattle. Portland. And on and on.”
And don’t forget to focus some of your selective outrage on the thugs who represent the Occupy movement. After all, if a few in a large group do something awful, that reflects on the entire group, doesn’t it?
Or is this faux outrage and indignation reserved for the military, with the Leftist political system and black mobs and indifferent law enforcement and complicit “journalists” getting a free pass?
Dennis,
You bring up a “report” by someone who, at best, has a questionable military record and that is what you use to buttress your argument that our troops just go off and wipe out people for no apparent reason. Sorry, but I’ve been in the military and we’re not like that. I don’t know what utter **** you choose to believe about our military personnel and I don’t care…you owe them an apology.
Mark, you have a singular talent for completely missing (or deliberately avoiding?) the point. I wasn’t there, so maybe fire fell from the sky and killed all those Iraqis and it just happened to coincide with our war. Maybe a whirlwind came and scattered all those millions of refugees to other places. But the unassailable fact is that those tragedies coincided with, and somehow resulted from the United States’ decision to make war with a nation that made no aggression against us, nor had any significant capability of harming us.
Although his credentials are strong (he had his MDiv degree before going into journalism) you obviously don’t accept Chris Hedges’ reportage, fine. My point here is how we define stupidity, the kinds of things we should be expending more effort to avert. There are much larger human tragedies that result from other kinds of stupidity than mushy philosophy – how some Buhddist monk articulates how an individual should value their individuality. To waste much attention on that is a small kind of stupidity in itself, when other kinds of stupidity cause such large-scale human devastation and suffering. That’s my point.
dennis, you are using that special dictionary again. This time you are inventing meanings for the word “unassailable”.
You claim “…the unassailable fact is that those tragedies coincided with, and somehow resulted from the United States’ decision to make war with a nation that made no aggression against us, nor had any significant capability of harming us. ”
“Coincided with”, to some extent, yes. “Resulted from…” not so much. I see you simply ignore what I point out about the damage done by Iraqis and various foreign Islamists who went to Iraq to create havoc and chaos, and to kill as many Iraqis as possible, knowing that some particularly gullible American sheeple would see only the death toll—or ALLEGED death toll—-and have hissy fits about the Big Meanie American Military.
“….no aggression against us….” aside from funding terrorist attacks on us and offering large financial rewards to the families of suicide bombers.
“….(no) significant capability of harming us…… ” in that exact, small, snapshot in time, when Iraq’s known contributions to the attempted destruction of the West (and that would include us) was pretty much limited to developing nuclear capabilities, manufacturing chemical and biological weapons, funding and hosting training camps for terrorist including a wide-body jet in which to practice taking down airliners, and the aforementioned payments to the families of those attacking us.
You pretend that if we had done nothing, nothing would have changed—that Iraq’s WMD would not have been made available to future attackers of the U.S., that no nuclear attack would have taken place, that no terrorists trained and funded by Saddam would have attacked us, that failure to act would not have emboldened future attackers, that life in Iraq would be the same now, in 2012, as it was in 2003.
And that is silly. The simple fact is, things would have changed, there was a reasonable expectation that they would change for the worse, and although you are not happy with the way things are now there is simply no way to know if things would have been better if we had not acted.
And dragging in the Liberty attack is just another example of your bigotry.
Another example of your—naivete? stupidity? cluelessness? is this gem: “And you can be sure if Israel were not itself a nuclear state with a long history of bellicosity, with U.S. backing, Iran wouldn’t be so interested in having nukes. ”
Naivete, stupidity, cluelessness, and a baldfaced lie, all in one utterly bizarre sentence.
First, Israel has never been the aggressor in the Middle East, and if you choose to use your Special Dictionary to define “bellicosity” as the temerity to engage in self-defense, well, that’s no goofier or more dishonest than most of your crap.
Second, you might educate yourself a little regarding the theology of the believers in the return of the 12th Imam and how they see their role in creating an environment in which the Imam can return and Islam can rule the world. Hint: It has nothing to do with being scared of a “bellicose” Israel.
“…millions of refugees…”
Millions? Really? MILLIONS??? You sure you don’t mean gazillions?
Ama I’m not interested in splitting hairs with you, the broad facts are as I stated. Regardless who does the suicide bombing now the fact is, there were no suicide bombings there before the war. Whatever else may be said about Saddam, he did not allow Islamic fundamentalists a foothold in Iraq.
As to whether or not that may have changed at some indefinable point in the future, of course nobody knows. But the unassailable fact is that the war is what changed everything. After the country’s security was destroyed over 370 tons of high explosives were stolen from Saddam’s storage facility at Al-Qa’qaa. Who done it? Nobody knows for sure – but there’s no doubt that it happened. After that things went to hell. The war removed the organizing factor that had existed in Iraq prior. It was like pulling the pin on a grenade, and the explosion has been going on ever since.
Virtually all authorities agree there have been anywhere from 3 to 5 million refugees resulting from the Iraq war. Wikipedia: “As of April 29, 2008, the UNHCR estimated that over 4.7 million Iraqis have been displaced” since the war began. Not gazillions. You really are clueless, aren’t you?
“You really are clueless, aren’t you?”
No, not clueless. Just interested in truth and considerably less bitchy than you are.
I’m also less impressed by “virtually all experts” than you, but then I am just interested in facts, not in supporting a virulent anti-U.S. military bigotry.
I notice that dennis is simply ignoring my comments on the bigotry of indicting an entire group based on the actions of very few.
Of course, this might be a touchy subject for denny, seeing as how he has committed himself to a blanket indictment of our military based on a very very few isolated incidents. As he said, “No non-delusional person could believe these were anything less than the tip of a much larger iceberg. ”
Yep, using that beloved Lefty crystal ball, denny has determined that the illegal actions of a few are only “the tip of a MUCH LARGER ICEBERG”!!! He has decided to condemn the entire military establishment based on a very few incidents, simply deciding that these represent a huge body of similar or worse incidents that he just, somehow, knows exist.
But when it comes to condemning OTHER groups based on repeated and ongoing illegal actions by some of their members, dennis is oddly silent.
And he very clumsily tries that silly old trick of trying to make us feel inadequate if we disagree, stating with his usual absolute certainty that anyone who does not agree with his invention of this massive ICEBERG is “delusional”.
Not the guy who imagines the iceberg, you understand, or the guy who leaps to wild and unsupported conclusions based on nothing more than his own bigotry, but those who choose not to be governed by hysteria and hatred.
denny: “Mark, you have a singular talent for completely missing (or deliberately avoiding?) the point.”
You are projecting again denny.
There you go again blasting the Iraq war and the evils of Bush, but completely ignore the Libyan war, by your pResident who did act without authority, without provocation or threat and of course, it was not funded. – ALL THE MINDLESS DUMBED DOWN PROGGY TALKING POINTS of the IRAQ war were done in the action on Libya and you are SILENT and purposefully ignoring it! As I have accurately been saying – you are a mindless drone and a hack.
You also ignore the atrocities committed by Hussein on his people. From your statements, you would rather them still live under that murderous regime than now. FREEDOM ISN’T FREE.
As I accurately said – you are projecting.
“your stubborn naivete when it comes to your sacred cows.”
Is this the reason you will not criticize obAMATEUR here in this forum? That would explain a lot. You have admitted that you will not criticize obAMATEUR, why is that? Can’t bring yourself to admit you and he are WRONG! That his ideology is a failure? That his actions in Libya are the same as those that you (wrongly) accuse of Bush and want him to stand trial for war crimes?
Do you even read what you write? Obviously not, since everything you say can be thrown back at you and reveal what a hypocrite you are, also.
As I have been saying, stick to photography and stained glass. You will be better off in the long run and we won’t have to put up with your ridiculous postings.
Dennis,
The thing is, what is reported in your story probably did not happen. My Lai in Vietnam happened and it is the freakishly weird exception which proves the rule: US soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines are honorable warriors who lay down their lives to defend the defenseless. Our enemies massacre women and children; our enemies hide behind women and children; our enemies are the brutes…but because you don’t like a particular political party in the United States you choose to believe slanders against your fellow Americans because that makes you feel good about your opposition to particular politicians in the United States.
No denny, RBS would be “if you own a business, you did not build that, somebody else did”.
RBS is “I will ban earmarks” then signing almost 8,000 of them.
RBS is blaming everyone else for your failure and taking credit for someone else’s success!
RBS is bitching about debt and deficits under Bush then outspending him is THREE YEARS.
RBS is your regurgitation of dumbed down talking points that have been debunked time and again.
Nice try drone. Again, stick to photography (RBS would rely chemical photo-process in the digital age) and stained glass. That way you would not demonstrate yourself as RBS.
denny the drone: “..all the enablers of the Bush admin (including plenty of Democrats) pushing us into an unfunded, unjustifiable war in Iraq, demonstrably based on falsehoods that millions of people were fully aware were false at the time.”
Wow….
RBS is definitely bitching about a war (which its cause we have debunked time and again) then supporting a pResident who “pushed us into an unfunded, unjustifiable war in Libya, demonstrably based on falsehoods that millions of people were fully aware were false at the time”.
RBS would be bitching about a war and then start one yourself under the circumstances that you yourself found so abhorrent. Libya did not attack us, nor threaten us nor had any WMDs (which BTW was NOT the reason for the Iraq war – but you just keep regurgitating the LIE).
RBS, denny would be admitting that under no circumstances YOU will not criticize your pResident obAMATEUR here in this forum. RBS is keep coming here time and again, getting humiliated by revealing your screed to be mostly BS and returning for more.
Hmmm, combating stupidity…
Encourage every young person to enlist in the Marine Corps.
The issue isn’t necessarily with stupid people that know they are stupid. The problem is with smart people who are completely or partially stupid, or harbor one or more ignorant beliefs.
Not everything is black and white, yet so many run their belief systems this way (or the belief systems run them, whichever way you wish to look at it). There are shades of grey, some people are really bright in one area, and completely daft in another. Stupid people are a part of life, but it doesn’t need to be a “way of life” for society as a whole.
An idea cannot be killed, but that’s exactly what needs to be done. New ideas need to be born and these ignorant fallacies need to made dead, but not buried. People need to be made to understand why those ideas/beliefs need to be put down so they don’t come back and haunt us again a few hundred years down the road.
Being more vocal is a start. People tend to come off as arrogant when they shoot down stupidity, but if one approaches the situation with some tact it can be pulled off in a neat manner often. Battling stupidity would be a full time job though, you’d be badgering people all the time, and to little avail. People often aren’t going to take ones word for something, you have to convince them. How do you convince the masses? Through mass media. It worked for stupidity, and it can work for intelligence too!
This failing, there’s always genocide. For some reason though, people don’t seem to take kindly to that.