Post Election Open Thread

A bit of a re-write, because initially this thread was ungraciously titled.  Listening to Romney speak tonight reminded me that we’re bigger than that.

Obama has won a narrow victory – with the exceptional rarity of a President winning a 2nd term with a lower vote total than he won his first term with.  We on our side clearly did not put together a good enough program to convince a solid majority that we were best for the nation – but neither did Obama.  He got it together and managed to get the win, but it is a hollow victory.

Our liberals are convinced that now all the Hope and Change of 2008 will finally come to pass – that some how or another the policies which have failed so miserably over the past four years will now bear fruit.  I don’t see how anyone can rationally believe that – I can understand having faith, but not having faith in policies which have never worked, not even once.  But, now they’ve got their chance.  Obama is inheriting Obama – if his brand of economic policies work then we’ll know for certain by election day, 2016.

A lot of conservatives will now start to pan Romney.  I won’t.  He ran an excellent campaign and I don’t see a real mis-step.  Sure, we can all look back with 20/20 hindsight and say he should have done this, that or the other thing…but as it was unfolding, I don’t see what was missed.  I thought we had this thing won.  I’m still flabbergasted that we didn’t.  But I won’t spend any time or effort re-hashing what happened.

The things we need to work on are many – to just name a few:

1.  Yes, we need to have an amnesty for illegals.  Don’t look all shocked: I’ve been advocating for it since 2007.  I know all the arguments against – but none of them work against the stark reality that there are 10 million of them here, many of which have been long domiciled in the United States.  Secure the border, amnesty the otherwise law-abiding illegals we have and then ensure that no more illegals can get in.  This is not a play for Latino votes – this is a rational way to get the entire issue off the table while at the same time adhering to our finest national ideals.  We must amend the Constitution to change the definition of citizen to read, “all persons born of an American citizen are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside”.

2.  We need to break our ties entirely with Big Business – to make it clear that Big Government and Big Business are two exceptionally nasty sides of the same disgusting coin; that they, together, are ruining our nation and they both must go if we are ever to really recover our prosperity and our freedom.  Big Government includes Big Government Union, by the way – we must continue the fight that Walker has started and carry it to total, nationwide victory.  Democrats live and die by Big Government and Big Business – destroy them and we destroy the Democrat party as it is currently constituted.

3.  We must start to work, on a State-by-State level, for a Freedom of Conscience Restoration Amendment to the Constitution – to ensure that no matter what cockamamie ideas our liberals come up with that our religious bodies – in the widest possible definition – are entirely immune from government dictates.

4.  We must attack and attack and then attack some more the growing immorality in our popular culture.  As part of the war against Big Business we must point out that the nauseating filth in our popular culture is brought to us by Big Business in order to make profits off the ruination of people’s lives.

There is plenty more – all of it needs to be worked on.  All of it can be done.

So, stout hearts an in to the future with confidence.

163 thoughts on “Post Election Open Thread

  1. cyberactor November 7, 2012 / 12:18 am

    Classy. Really classy Mark. Way to be gracious.


    • M. Noonan November 7, 2012 / 12:42 am

      More gracious than you liberals were in 2004 – but, that is just it: Obama is a complete failure as a President and he’s running us over a cliff. Now, if the American people want four more years of Obama, then they’ll get them – people get the government they deserve and usually get it good and hard.

      • cyberactor November 7, 2012 / 2:07 am

        I can’t wait to have this discussion again in four years. Because here’s a real prediction:

        Job growth will continue. It will actually exceed the past four years and usher in a new era of prosperity.

        Boehner and the right-wingnuts will continue to try and obstruct progress but they will ultimately fail. Obama will play rope-a-dope and finally get the tax increases on the super-rich he wants and will couple it with spending cuts (as he has previously offered) and we will start bringing down the deficit.

        Obamacare will survive and millions will finally get the insurance they desperately need.

        Banking regulations will remain in place, forestalling “too big to fail” banks, predatory lending and rampant deregulation (all of which led to the LAST financial collapse).

        But most importantly:

        We win the NEXT presidential election, too.

        By the way, Mark: I predicted EVERYTHING that happened tonight. So did Nate Silver. ALL of your guys were wrong. All of them. Did that teach you any lesson at all? At ALL?

        I’m hoping so. But I’m betting not.

      • M. Noonan November 7, 2012 / 2:40 am

        We shall see, shan’t we? You’ve no worries at all if there’s an economic boom – we GOPers will be thrashed in 2014 and 2016. But if things don’t work out quite like that then you will look back on 2012 and say, “Goodness, I wish Romney had won”.

      • Amazona November 7, 2012 / 10:06 am

        Too funny, actor, having YOU lecture on class and graciousness.

        But then this whole election has stood reason on its head.

      • Retired Spook November 7, 2012 / 1:09 pm

        Job growth will continue. It will actually exceed the past four years and usher in a new era of prosperity.

        It will have to exceed the past four years just to be called “growth”. There are fewer people employed than when Obama took office.

    • 01canadianobserver November 7, 2012 / 8:40 am

      “The task of perfecting our union moves forward. It moves forward because of you. It moves forward because you reaffirmed the spirit that has triumphed over war and depression, the spirit that has lifted this country from the depths of despair to the great heights of hope,

      You, the American people, reminded us that while our road ahead has been hard, while our journey has been long, we have picked ourselves up, we have fought our way back and we know in our hearts that for the United States of America, the best is yet to come,”

      Well said, Mr. President, well said.

      Yes, a deep sigh of relief can be heard around the world today. By re-electing this honorable and compassionate man as their leader, American voters have shown that they still trust in his ability to advance the country in a more secure and equitable direction. The better man won and for that we are grateful.

      • M. Noonan November 7, 2012 / 9:21 am


        That word, “honorable” – I don’t think it means what you think it means.

      • Amazona November 7, 2012 / 9:26 am

        Yes, a deep sigh of relief can be heard around the world today. In Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea, Russia and China, the relief is palpable, as the United States moves closer to openly joining them in their revolution against capitalism and freedom. In the Middle East, where it has become increasingly clear that America is once again a timid and toothless old tiger, the news that we did not elect a strong leader intent on rebuilding our national security is quite welcome.

        And I see the RRL Redefinition Dictionary is already hard at work. The target words for the day seem to be “compassionate” and “honorable”, both of which now evidently embrace the concept of sacrificing human life for the advancement of a political cause. I doubt that the families of the innocent Mexicans butchered by weapons provided through the efforts of Eric Holder would use those words to describe his boss, and I know the families of the abandoned Americans in Benghazi would not.

        Some might find it “compassionate” to pat people on the head and give them handouts instead of providing educations and jobs, but many do not find the creation of human zoos, where people determined by the government to be substandard and therefore not capable of caring for themselves get food and goodies tossed to them to keep them compliant——and voting—to be particularly “compassionate”. We find it demeaning, though this election did prove it to be effective, if political gain is the agenda.

        Nice insight into what you consider “honorable” but a lot of us are not impressed by the “honor” of sitting and watching, for seven hours, attacks on our consulate and our people, and refusing to intercede because it might be politically damaging.

      • Retired Spook November 7, 2012 / 9:28 am

        CO, That word, “honorable” – I don’t think it means what you think it means.

        Mark, to use it in that way just reaffirms to me that she has not the slightest concept of “honor”. An honorable man doesn’t sit and watch heroes die without lifting a finger, and then cover it up and claim he did everything he could.

      • Amazona November 7, 2012 / 9:36 am

        The task of perfecting our union moves forward

        Chilling words, absolutely chilling.

        Why? Because Obama has already made it clear that his goal is to “fundamentally transform this nation, and his entire presidency has been one of moving it away from its Constitutional foundation into something I am sure he, and his fellow radical ideologues, find closer to “perfect” but which is the antithesis of the very nature, identity and structure of the United States.

        By these words Obama finally officially assumes the mantle of Messiah, the one sent to PERFECT our nation. He seems to see himself as a mythical figure, The One We Have All Been Waiting For, the savior, the hero of the revolution.

        We called him arrogant before, but now half of the nation has awarded him the title of Redeemer, if not King. We had an Imperial Presidency before, but we ain’t seen nothin’ yet, including lots and LOTS of “flexibility” regarding his relations with buddies like Putin.

      • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 6:54 pm


        The better man won and for that we are grateful.

        Germany 1939
        hope you GET what you voted for.

    • thetruthshallsetyoufree2012 November 7, 2012 / 11:48 am

      Yes, and the positive thing is this election has given conservatives a golden opportunity to leave that bubble. The conservative impulse to deny facts, to shut them out, and to replace them with comforting lies has played a large part in these election results.

      It’s laid out quite plainly in this blog’s archives, even. The conservatives here — Mark Noonan, Matt, and Cluster in particular — were predicting a massive GOP win and wondering just how big the Romney landslide victory would be. Of course, this was at odds with all observable data, but when this was pointed out, the conservative response was to cry “bias!” Well, this is what your cries of “bias!” got you: defeat. Living inside that closed feedback loop did you no favors.

      This election is also an opportunity for conservatives to divorce themselves from the radicalism that has infected the GOP (and has, in part, fueled the conservative separation from reality). Learn a lesson from Akin, Mourdock, and West (among others) and clean house. The American people are not interested in crazed radicalism; they’re interested in having rational adults tackle the problems we face as a nation.

      And so you are invited to leave your bubble, leave the fringe kookery, and rejoin the factual, rational world. It would do both your party and your country a lot of good to do so.

      • Retired Spook November 7, 2012 / 1:17 pm

        This election is also an opportunity for conservatives to divorce themselves from the radicalism that has infected the GOP (and has, in part, fueled the conservative separation from reality).

        You mean that radicalism that won back the House and Senate for the first time in 40 years in 1994? The radicalism that won a 70-year high 63 House seats, 7 Senate seats and nearly 700 state legislative seats in 2010? That radicalism?

      • thetruthshallsetyoufree2012 November 8, 2012 / 1:21 am

        1994, Retired Spook? Why not just cite Nixon while you’re at it.

        But how’d that radicalism turn out for you last night? You lose a presidential election you were all so sure was in the bag, you lost Senate seats, (later, Scott Brown!), and some of the most visible radicals–West, Akin, and Mourdock–came up losers. But if you think radicalism is the key to victory…well, good luck with that.

    • Retired Spook November 8, 2012 / 9:16 am

      1994, Retired Spook? Why not just cite Nixon while you’re at it.

      Nixon wasn’t a Tea Party candidate.

      But how’d that radicalism turn out for you last night? You lose a presidential election you were all so sure was in the bag,

      You can described Romney lots of different ways, but “radical” and “Tea Party” aren’t among them.

      later, Scott Brown!

      ROTFLMAO!! Scott Brown was anything but a radical.

      West, Akin, and Mourdock–came up losers.

      Finally you get to some Tea Party candidates, and none of them are what I’d call radicals. Akin was ultra conservative on social issues, and West is petitioning for a recount. My wife and I campaigned for and supported Mourdock financially. As a 2nd term State Treasurer (the only major office he’s ever held), he lost to a 3-term sitting Congressman by less than 2 points, and that was largely due to lack of support from the 6-term Senator, Richard Lugar, whom Mourdock defeated in the primary by 21 points. Now what was it you were saying again about radicals? The only times in my life where Republicans adhered to solid conservative principles, 1980 and ’84 with Reagan, 1994 with the Contract for America and 2010, they won big. It’s when they abandon those principles, they lose.

  2. Bob1 November 7, 2012 / 12:32 am

    There can be no “winner” in such a contested “popular” election. We are going to have a strongly divided Congress with about half of the citizens opposed to what the “popular winner” is trying to do. And even the “winners” will have to face and live with the consequences of the strongly held issues that divide us. The battles of the last four years or longer will continue and become more severe, because this election has not put our political representatives in a position to solve them. There is nothing to celebrate by anyone, because the future only allows for more frustration and political gridlock.

  3. M. Noonan November 7, 2012 / 12:40 am

    I thought the electorate would be R+1, it looks like in the crucial States it was D+4. Didn’t think the American people would be this stupid.

    • cyberactor November 7, 2012 / 2:20 am

      Deleted – insults.

      • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 4:38 pm

        cyberactor November 7, 2012 at 2:20 am #
        Deleted – insults.

        Ha ha ha **DELETED**….your best post ever LOL

        ps how are things going in Ubama’s home town chi-cago……50? 100? murders last night in celebration for the kenyan?
        you must be soooo proud of your “leader” and his murderous followers.

  4. Amazona November 7, 2012 / 1:27 am

    Last week I was talking to the head of the Colorado GOP and asked why the GOP had let the lies just ride, unchallenged. He responded that the party had decided to take the high road, not get down in the gutter with the Dems, and had faith in the people that they would respond to the truth and to the positive message of Romney.

    Once again, he and this naive attitude were proven wrong.

    I saw this happen last year in Colorado when Michael Bennett narrowly edged out Ken Buck for the Senate, in a campaign even the radically Leftist Denver post called “despicable”, because Buck also took the high road and thought the people were smart enough to see through the lies.

    Quite simply, people lie because they know the truth will hurt them. So the entire Obama campaign was one of lies, one after another—and we let them get away with it. Yes, part of this was simple incredulity that anyone would be stupid enough to believe them, but still………..

    However, I do not see this as a victory for Obama as much as one for the Complicit Agenda Media. Just think of the difference a few questions from our so-called “journalists” might have made.

    If Obama had undergone the same kind of scrutiny that Bush was subjected to, these questions would have been asked, and asked over and over again. Think about the constant drumbeat of media hysteria about Enron, in spite of the fact that the officials broke the law, were prosecuted and sent to prison, and there was not a hint of collusion between Bush and the company—-but Bush and Ken Lay had moved in some of the same petroleum circles, once upon a time, which was all that was needed to blow it up into a massive smear campaign.

    Officials of a company broke the law, got busted, got prosecuted, and went to jail, and the press could not let go of it. But when the Dem-led GOVERNMENT engages in serial corruption, there is media silence.

    Off the top of my head, I can think of:

    The mangled message regarding GM, when in fact the taxpayers got screwed, the shareholders got screwed, the unions got handed a sweetheart deal, and GM still had to declare bankruptcy.

    The entire process of constantly “loaning” taxpayer money to Obama cronies, even when all the data showed these to be very bad risks. There was never a question about where the money went, what oversights were in place, how they were chosen, etc.

    Fast and Furious—-this has been essentially ignored by the Complicit Agenda Media, with no tough questions asked about a very bizarre federal plan which callously determined that a few hundred, or thousand, Mexican lives were an acceptable cost for gaining some political traction here in the U.S. regarding gun control.


    As I write this, Fox people are talking about the brilliant campaign run by the Obama group, yet not a word about the brilliant campaign run by the networks to elect their guy.

    I foresee four more years of strident conflict, as the only way we can deal with the atrocity that is Obamacare is through more challenges through the Supreme Court—which will, of course, be packed with more radical Lefties till it is even more of a joke than it is now. When the former federal advocate for Obamacare refused to recuse herself in a hearing on Obamacare, we got a glimpse of the future with these people in charge.

    The politically illiterate trolls here will whine, constantly, about the obstructionist Republicans, but this is just because they are so profoundly ignorant of the fact that true politics is about the blueprint for governing the country, and that when people believe that a course is deeply harmful to the country they are required by honor to fight it.

    • cyberactor November 7, 2012 / 2:26 am

      Lies? Amazona, Romney just ran (and lost) the most dishonest campaign in history. And you’re whining about Democratic dishonesty? Please. I’ll happily give you two Romney lies to every one “lie” you can present that Obama told during this campaign.

      But mainly: Romney wouldn’t release his tax returns, so people thought him shifty and untrustworthy. He planted his money in Swiss bank accounts and in the Cayman Islands so they thought him slimy and unpatriotic. He changed his mind on absolutely every singe social issue in America, from abortion to taxes, gay rights, the environment, name it. So they thought him unprincipled and opportunistic. And in every case, they were right.

      You nominated the wrong guy. You know you did. Hell, hardly anyone on this site liked Mitt in the slightest bit. But because he was “not Obama,” you tried to sell us a bill of goods.

      And you lost. And you deserved it. And I couldn’t be happier.

      • Amazona November 7, 2012 / 10:04 am

        ” Romney wouldn’t release his tax returns, so people thought him shifty and untrustworthy.”

        Though he did release tax returns. People were told by people like you that he was shifty and untrustworthy, because this is the only way people like you could win an election.

        “He planted his money in Swiss bank accounts and in the Cayman Islands so they thought him slimy and unpatriotic.”

        Actually, this is just more of the Leftist Smear Machine at work.

        “He changed his mind on absolutely every singe social issue in America, from abortion to taxes, gay rights, the environment, name it. ”

        Except he didn’t. When Obama changed HIS mind, he “evolved” but when Romney came to a greater realization of the brutal reality of abortion, you chose to call that ‘unprincipled’—an interesting peek into the mind of a rabid radical Lefty, calling defense of innocent life “unprincipled”. You toss out the term “gay rights” but Romney never took a position on such a vague and imprecise term, I don’t know what you mean by “the environment”, and as for health care, he was quite consistent—states can do what the feds can’t.

        “So they thought him unprincipled and opportunistic.”

        No, you and the rest of the RRL Smear Machine claimed he is unprincipled and opportunistic, and a few too many ignorant lemmings believe you.

        What remains is that not one single aspect of Obama’s campaign appealed to the best of us. Every single thing about it was geared to the petty, the spiteful, the ignorant, the greedy, the taker, and the hater. Romney ran a campaign of decency, appealing to the best in each of us, and it is an ongoing shame for this nation that this was not the majority.

      • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 4:42 pm


        And you lost. And you deserved it. And I couldn’t be happier.

        No America lost and when the whole thing comes crashing down I hope you are first in line, you will deserve it, and I couldnt be happier

      • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 5:38 pm

        chi cago cybercommie

        Dow falls more than 300 points, slips below 13,000
        LA Times ^

        Stocks plunged nearly 2.7% following President Obama’s reelection, as the so-called fiscal cliff took center stage as a threat to the U.S. economy.

        The Dow Jones industrial average fell a 354 points, or 2.67%, about two hours after the opening bell on Wall Street. The Dow slid below 13,000 for the first since early August.

        The broader Standard & Poor’s 500 index fell 34 points, to 2.4%, to 1,395. The Nasdaq was down 70 points, or 2.3%, to 2,942.

        you must be sooooo happy….did you dust off your che poster?

    • M. Noonan November 7, 2012 / 2:46 am


      It might have been better if Romney had hit out at the Benghazi issue more forcefully – we’ll never really know, now.

      It is certain that we’re going to have to fight harder – Democrats yearn for power like no tomorrow; it is all that really motivates them, at all. Power, power and then more power. We have to remember that when they are fighting a battle they are fighting as if their lives depend on it – because, in large measure, it does. If they are not able to sit in quiet, plush, well-paid government positions and dictate to the rest of us, then life just doesn’t seem complete.

      We have to fight as hard as that – but it is difficult to do so because our primary goal in gaining power is to get rid of it. Our secret to victory, however, lies in this fact: Democrats are entirely out of their reckoning on this – they don’t realize we don’t want to rule them. We want to leave them be. As soon as we can turn that in to an effective campaign message, we’ll flatten them…because even today with all the welfare and waste, most Americans just want to be left alone.

      • Amazona November 7, 2012 / 9:52 am

        Mark, it would have taken more than Benghazi to tip this election.

        The American public which depends on networks for its “news” were never presented with analysis of the whispered message to Putin that he just needed to be patient, till after this election, when Obama could be “more flexible”.

        They never had a real journalist probe into Fast and Furious, or even question how and why the President would, or could, invoke Executive Privilege to keep records away from the investigation into the many levels of law breaking instigated by the Justice Department.

        The few who have even heard of Benghazi probably gave it no more thought than “Gee, that’s too bad—I hope they prosecute the bastard who made that video”.

        The vast majority of Americans probably believe that the auto bailout saved GM and kept it out of bankruptcy.

        And so on.

        But then, there wasn’t much room for real news, because the “issue” of Romney’s taxes was so important.

  5. Mark Moser November 7, 2012 / 1:43 am

    This was decided a long time ago and not by the voters. I don’t know why things have turned out as they have, but I know God is in charge and we are, but actors in his play. I guess the next four years will determine whether this is God’s blessing or his curse. America did not repent politically, but decided to continue forward despite the country being worse off now than four year ago by almost every imaginable economic benchmark. We will get the government we deserve.

    Benghazi may prove a small problem, but as polarized as the country is, the democratically controlled Senate will never convict Obama, even if he’s proven guilty. They have a track record there you know and they know they can get away with it. Ironically, this is most likely a good thing for the country considering the potential ramification of Biden administration. We conservatives better pray we are wrong and Keynes is right. We own Obama-care now too boys and girls and we can thank electorate and Justas Robert for ensuring its survival. So much for the theory of Robert’s genius.

    I think we are in big trouble. Democrats have seized the advantage appealing to the something for nothing crew and those who believe we can and are, therefore, mandated to “get ourselves back to the garden.” The achievement of such a goal seems out of reach given human nature and the fact governments are made up of human beings. I think the tipping point has been reached and surpassed. America is changed forever. We can only hope for its for the better, while knowing better.

    • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 4:45 pm


      are YOU kidding? we have to wait 4 years to know??

      NO we are reaping the whirlwind and this regime IS the curse. The man is an Antichrist and America will pay.

  6. Retired Spook November 7, 2012 / 1:46 am

    I’ve eaten crow before, and it tastes fowl no matter how it’s prepared. There were no winners tonight. Obama is the most divisive President in my lifetime, and that will only get worse as he exercises “flexibility” with out geopolitical adversaries and Valerie Jarrett gets payback. Republicans increased their majority in the House, and it looks like Democrats increased their majority in the Senate. Gridlock will only get worse, and Obama acting unilaterally will continue to make Congress more and more irrelevant. As the Fed prints us into oblivion, fuel and food will continue to increase in cost while the economy will grind to a halt, forcing more and more people onto the government dole. Too bad — American was a great country, one that I was proud to serve.

    • pelirrojito November 7, 2012 / 2:11 am

      I can assure you he wouldn’t want to live in a leftwing nightmare like new zealand. government owned hospitals, government funded student loans with *gasp* no interest, one of the best education systems but fully government funded. Australia perhaps.

      • Cluster November 7, 2012 / 11:01 am

        You must be very happy having a new permanent parent in your life. Congratulations.

      • 02casper November 7, 2012 / 11:17 am

        I’ve had several friends retire and move to AZ in the last couple of years. All liberals. AZ will be in play in 2016.

      • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 4:07 pm


        government funded student loans with *gasp* no interest, one of the best education systems but fully government funded.

        The GOVERNMENT (gasp) HAS **NO** MONEY except that which they TAKE from the people through taxes.
        aint OPM grand, eh perriwinkle?

    • M. Noonan November 7, 2012 / 2:47 am


      It will be great, again – nothing that Obama has done indicates any possibility of his getting it right in the next four years…we’ll flatten them in 2014 and then elect Bobby Jindal in 2016.

    • Amazona November 7, 2012 / 8:19 am

      I think we can recover from economic collapse, and I even think we can repair damage to the Constitutional form of government that now exists, for the most part, in our memory.

      I have been talking to people about the mistakes the GOP has been making, and I think this election is not just about the presidency, it is about the identity of the Right as a political movement. That is something we will have to work on, and have to work on a lot more intelligently than we have been so far.

      What worries me far more is the perception, which I think is completely accurate, that America and Americans can be attacked, on our own soil, without fear of much in the way of response. I think this perception among our enemies is going to be very costly to this nation.

      And I am saddened by the prospect, which I think is inevitable and necessary, of dealing with the reality of the Obama Presidency throughout the next four years. I am not talking about just living with it, or to be more accurate, living through it. I am talking about the divisiveness which will only grow if we do what we really should do, and address issues like the administration’s handling of Benghazi, and Fast and Furious.

      I sensed a hope that with a new administration, we could just move on, and avoid the inevitable rancor and increased divisiveness that investigations into a sitting president will create. But now we are faced with the choice of letting these things pass by because we lack the fortitude to deal with them and the consequences of addressing them, or pushing to deal with them head-on. We know that any such effort will be met with the typical Leftist diversionary tactics, mostly that any such effort is just spite, revenge, or racism. So, do we do what is right, and damn the consequences, or do we stand down and let it ride?

  7. jmorgan428 November 7, 2012 / 1:57 am

    Hey Neocon,

    Congratulations! You can still wear the Romney shirt….just don’t forget to add a big, “L” to it. Take care!

    • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 7:44 pm


      no I’ll PROUDLY wear my marxist, muslim, POS with the big O shirt instead.

  8. bozo November 7, 2012 / 4:19 am

    Well, it’s been fun, peeps. You guys fought the good fight. And I still honestly believe we all have the same goal in mind, just radically different paths to get there.

    I’ll even go out on a limb here and say if any of us met in a mall or a park or a concert or a ball game, we’d probably have a good time together. Even Ammo n me.

    I hope a group of Republicans rise up out of the disarray to embrace Distributism, something I see as a great middle ground between left and right. Mark may or may not see it that way, but if I ever make it to a book signing or something, I’d enjoy a quick chat about that.

    I sincerely wish you all peace with / through your chosen deity or whatever keeps you sane, good health to all and your families, and prosperity because of / in spite of politicians and their big ideas.

    See you in 2016?

    The clown has left the building.


    • Amazona November 7, 2012 / 8:07 am

      “I hope a group of Republicans rise up out of the disarray to embrace Distributism, something I see as a great middle ground between left and right.”

      Please explain that middle ground. What does it look like? How does it work?

      Given that Right is the Constitutional model of a federal government severely restricted as to size, scope and power, and the Left is one of unrestrained federal size and authority, how do you see a “middle ground”? What does it look like? Is it where you follow the Constitution half the time?

      I have argued for years that the electoral choices should be, in a rational world MUST be, between the two basic systems of government, and that then, and only then, should the other issues be addressed.

      My vision has always been one of a Constitutional model, under which individuals, and states, could determine issues such as health care, abortion, etc. But the Right has been complicit in allowing the Left to shift these issues into the decision-making process, so people vote on ISSUES that appeal to them, rather than on the structure of their government. And we have lost elections because we have not had the clarity of thought to be able to convey that to the people—the very real truth that voting for a Constitutional model of government is not voting AGAINST the issues they find important, it is just setting out the format for achieving those goals.

      You talk about the possibility of having a drink together, chatting, getting along, and I agree. One of the reasons I have been challenging the opposition to state its political philosophy is that I believe that deep down, if we could get rid of the emotional baggage that seems to form the bulk of what we think are political decisions, we would find that we are not that far apart.

      For example, I accept the reality that we have to have some form and nature of government assistance to help make good health care available to people who can’t pay for it on their own. I have no problem with that, or with welfare, or food stamps, or other forms of government assistance for those who need it. I simply believe, for two very strong reasons, that it most definitely should NOT be done at the federal level. One is that there is nothing in the Constitution that allows it, and on the contrary the contemporaneous writings of the Founders make it clear that they never intended any such activities to be allowed at the federal level. And the other is that every such program will be more expensive, more susceptible to corruption and waste, and less efficient if managed at the federal, One Size Fits All, level.

      The Left has been brilliant at shifting this kind of thinking into a false paradigm of “If you don’t want the federal government to do it, you are against it” and the successful effort to divide us into warring camps where we think we are fighting for different things instead of arguing about the best way to achieve things we pretty much agree with has resulted in what we have now—-a bitterly divided, mutually suspicious, and increasingly crippled nation.

  9. Amazona November 7, 2012 / 7:43 am

    I don’t know what the Left voted for this year.

    Last time I understood. I thought they were being gulled, but I understood. They were tired, they were depressed, they saw debt looming over their heads, they wanted someone new and fresh, they voted for the giddy optimism of hope, and they wanted change.

    This time I have no idea. This time, with the economy even worse, with the debt exploded to many times what it had been, with our international reputation in tatters, with our administration making callous and cold-blooded decisions to let people die in the pursuit of political power, they voted NOT to change.

    This time they voted for more debt, an even worse economy, an even more weakened military, less national security, and an Imperial Presidency which has set itself up as the maker and decider of law. This time they voted for pathetic economic growth, so meager as to be the equivalent of treading water, evidently believing that if they can just soak “the rich” enough the government will take care of them.

    I have to admit, I simply had too much faith in the American public in general to think they would fall for the lies. As a woman, I could not accept that women have gone so far backward that all that matters to them is abortion and birth control, or that they are so stupid they could actually believe that any president could DENY ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE FOR WOMEN. The female vote surprised me, but only because I used to have such a high opinion of the intelligence of most women. I am not only surprised but distressed that the cynical Left was so right in its crotch-centric evaluation of women in this country. We struggled for so long to be accepted as equals, only to have the younger generation throw it away and willingly accept the role of sexually obsessed pleasure seekers without a deeper thought in their empty little heads.

    I saw coal counties voting for the man who has promised to pretty much destroy the coal industry. I saw the military voting for the man who has weakened our military strength and left our people to die while his people watched and refused to help them. I saw people who have been quite upset at the attacks on Americans voting for the man who has sent a message to terrorists that there is really no down side to attacking us.

    I expected the unions, black people, and Latinos to vote the way they did, because the Left has always had what it takes to buy their votes. I write off the unions—this is a type and level of corruption that is nothing more than a legalized form of the Mob. But it saddens me to see the nation so skillfully divided into racial groups set against each other instead of united for the good of the country. It’s an excellent strategy for gaining political power, with all the perks of same, but it is devastating to the fabric of a nation.

    I have always thought the display at the La Brea Tar Pits to be quite sad—-the mammoths trapped in the tar, fighting to free themselves but sinking deeper and deeper—-and for the past four years have had this image in my mind as I have seen this nation sinking deeper and deeper, wondering how far it could go and still have a chance of getting out and onto firm ground. I thought that four years was probably about as long as it could withstand the sucking death of socialism, before it was so deeply damaged that it could never fully recover. Now I don’t know.

    I read the comments by the RRL who post here and I realize they don’t even have a strong sense of country, evidently seeing the United States as nothing more than just another place on the map. And that is what it will be—just a place, like any other, no stronger, no better, no freer, no more prosperous. We will be brought down, as Obama has desired, to the level of the nations he admires.

  10. Cluster November 7, 2012 / 8:19 am

    Congratulations to liberals, and welcome to your new norm. High unemployment, high energy prices, and a country that may be permanently mired in mediocrity and on the decline. The stupid people now outnumber the sensible, and that was proven last night. America is no longer an exceptional country and I feel sorry for our children as they will pay dearly for the selfishness of our current society. The fact that the GOP retained the Congress is hardly a victory as John Boehner is simply a tool.

    I have been a political junkie for over 30 years and have had more disappointments than not to be sure, but this may be the biggest disappointment because I think it is irreversible. This country has turned the corner from being a country of independent minded, hard working, God fearing people to one of dependent minded, needy, selfish, lazy people. I guess I was in denial, hoping and praying that common sense would prevail, but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised by a country that celebrates the Kardashians and has people like James living amongst us.

    • Cluster November 7, 2012 / 8:34 am


      I said congratulations, and as a typical liberal, you come back with nothing but insults which saddens me. People like you are incapable of being nice, civil, or respectful. I am not an evangelical. I am purely a fiscal conservative, and voted against $16 trillion dollar debt, $1 trillion dollar deficits, and ever growing entitlements.

      You evidently think it is more important to have the right to kill your unborn child and that fact is very sad. Welcome to your new society.

    • Cluster November 7, 2012 / 8:37 am

      Oh and Diane, I have no intention of ever voting again. As I said, the stupid like you now outnumber sensible people like me, so I will only focus now on my family, and taking as much from this country, and you, as I can for my retirement. And trust me, I am going to extract as much money from you and your generation as possible.


      • 02casper November 7, 2012 / 9:46 am

        “And trust me, I am going to extract as much money from you and your generation as possible.”

        How is that different from what you would have done if Romney would have won?

      • GMB November 7, 2012 / 9:49 am

        Excellent question. I am interested in the answer myself.

      • GMB November 7, 2012 / 11:17 am

        Pound sand Thomas.

      • GMB November 7, 2012 / 11:59 am

        Wishful thinking? It doesnt’ matter does it. Your side won. I see no ability of the Clusters of the country to stop it.

        All that remains to be seen is how much more the makers will allow people like you to take. And take you will and take and take and take and, you get the point.

        A bit of advice though. As long as you leave the money people their sixty-four inch, wide screen, plasma, televisions, to watch, you probably can milk them forever.


      • Cluster November 7, 2012 / 9:57 am


        Thank you for proving once again that stupid won the vote yesterday. I voted to reform medicare and social security at my own cost. I under the age of 55, yet thought it important to increase my retirement age, and limit my benefits, to ensure that the program would be there for my grandchildren. I was also hoping to limit government entitlements in favor of more community based charities of which I donate to.

        But now, I plan to take as much medicare and social security as possible, limit if not zero out charity donations, and possibly cancel my health insurance knowing that I can get insurance when I need it.

        I propose that you move to Washington. There you can smoke all the pot you want, kill your unborn children and live in nirvana. Congratulations on your new society.

      • 02casper November 7, 2012 / 10:10 am

        Not surprised that since you lost you want to take all your toys and go home. If you are using the election as an excuse to stop giving to charity you probably weren’t that committed to giving to begin with.

        I have no desire to move to Washington. I like it here. I don’t smoke pot and have no desire to start.

      • Cluster November 7, 2012 / 10:37 am

        As I said, welcome to your new reality. This is the society you wanted, and you got it. I have contributed greatly to this country over the last 35 years, but now I am done. The stupid people outnumber the sensible ones and I guess I knew this day was eventually coming, so for the remainder of my years, I will focus on my business, my family, neighbors and start taking back what I have paid in.

        I really don’t plan to ever vote again, nor engage in political discourse. I will leave this country up to the new generation. Good luck. By the way, I would highly recommend that your generation stop with the emphasis on race. All I heard last night was how the brown people were voting, how the black were voting, etc. That is not how you build a healthy society.

      • 02casper November 7, 2012 / 11:14 am

        I’ve been contributing to our society for 45 years and I plan on continuing to do so for as long as I can. That did’t change with this election, nor would it have changed if Romney had won.

      • Amazona November 7, 2012 / 12:45 pm

        But we have just learned that you “contribute to society” by teaching impressionable young children falsehoods about their country and their Constitution, and might even try to poison their minds with your sewage-like thought processes.

      • Amazona November 7, 2012 / 12:43 pm

        ” If you are using the election as an excuse to stop giving to charity you probably weren’t that committed to giving to begin with. ”

        What a snotty, catty, petty, bitchy thing you are.

      • Amazona November 7, 2012 / 12:41 pm

        See, this snotty sniping, this EXTREMELY unmanly cattiness, is classic casper.

        Cluster is and always has been a hard working, productive, contributor to society and this nation. He is rightfully indignant at having half of the nation vote to penalize his efforts to support the other half, at having the federal government say his state has no right to make or enforce its own laws, and at the sick gloating of creatures like the bad actor.

        You, on the other hand, ride the ride. You posture as a teacher of the young, while indoctrinating them into your bizarre distortions of American history and current events.

        I am going to contact someone I know in Casper to see if you informed your middle school students that “Benghazi is a right-wing wet dream”—I am sure Casperites will be thrilled to know what kind of sick creature is in their midst. They might even quiz your students to see if they have been taught that following the Constitution as it is written is the same thing as wanting to go back to slavery, and depriving women of the right to vote. Some might even want to know just how many federal elections you teach your students are available to American voters.

        You have a right to be a sniveling, bitchy little weasel, but at least stop pretending that anyone else is as weaselly as you.

      • 02casper November 7, 2012 / 1:23 pm

        Feel free to contact anyone you want. I’m sure that after reading a few of your hate filled, fact free, delusional tirades, they will feel the same pity that I have for you.

      • 01canadianobserver November 7, 2012 / 2:12 pm

        Yes, casper, it saddens me to see how someone who was an enlightened Liberal in her youth has now morphed into a dark and, bitter Conservative with little or no self-awareness as to what she’s become. Reading through her massive posts, spewing vitriol and hyperbole toward anyone with the audacity to have a differing point of view, it makes me wonder just how badly hurt she may have been by someone from those early days.

        Amazona, have no fear. Under President Obama, America will still be a capitalist country where you have the freedom to express your views without retaliation, no matter how silly or paranoid they may be.

      • J. R. Babcock (@JRBabcock) November 7, 2012 / 2:18 pm

        Under President Obama, America will still be a capitalist country where you have the freedom to express your views without retaliation, no matter how silly or paranoid they may be.

        Will that be AFTER the “payback” that Valerie Jarrett says will be the first order of business?

      • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 2:33 pm


        OH the payback is coming believe me, if only the GOP had the brass balls ole joe azzhole talked about and Impeached this cretin, the butcher of bengazi.

      • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 2:38 pm


        “Now that Obama has been re-elected the American people want to know… How will Obama handle the myriad of problems he inherited from himself?” -unamed

      • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 2:23 pm

        kanuck unobservant

        BS from a foreign stooge who knows less than Hussein about the US.

      • Amazona November 7, 2012 / 10:51 pm

        Awww, the poor observer is sad again. So sad, too bad. Crocodile tears yet again.

        No, sweetie, I was a typical Liberal, which means I was the farthest possible thing from “enlightened”. As a matter of fact I refer to that time of my life as one of being “an unexamined liberal”—-I was never radical enough to deserve the capital L.

        “Unexamined” because I questioned nothing, accepted whatever the Left told me, and had no actual intellectual foundation for any of my supposed positions. As I have often said here, when I started to listen to talk radio, it was in hopes of hearing another lib explain things, and when one was asked a question I would listen closely for the answer, because I wanted to know why I “thought” what I “thought”.

        I soon learned that Lefties never have answers. They have evasions, they have attacks, they try to respond to questions with other questions, but they never have answers.

        When I realized that conservatives understood why they thought what they thought, and could support and defend their positions with reason and fact and history, I realized I was on the wrong side.

        And you and casper reinforce the absolute correctness of that decision. You never have an answer.

        I am not dark, but am rather relentlessly cheerful and optimistic. (My mood has absolutely nothing to do with my crap detector, which alerts whenever you or one of your kind starts posting.) I am not at all bitter, though I am often disillusioned by the ignorance of so much of the American public, and awareness that it is because they were subjected to “teachers” like casper.

        And I am fully self aware. I know that I am a well educated, committed conservative, dedicated to the belief that what made this nation great was its adherence to its Constitution and what has eroded its greatness is its departure from that. I can, and do, explain my political philosophy when asked. It is coherent and concise.

        I find it quite amusing to have someone like you rush to the defense of someone like casper, who recently accused the Right of getting sexual satisfaction from the murders of Americans in Libya, and to have YOU, of all people, accuse ANYONE of lack of self awareness, when you are apparently ignorant of the fact that when you vote for one of your little issues you are also voting for unrestricted federal power and authority.

        I see that you lemmings have all put on your little Junior Shrink hats and decided to analyze me. Perhaps it will help you out if I clarify a couple of things for you. I am not angry, or bitter, but I have zero tolerance for lies and hatred, and I do not suffer fools gladly. When you fall into those categories, I understand why you want to shift the focus away from the distasteful nature of who and what you represent to a critique of those who comment on it.

        I know left leaning people who are decent human beings, and I respect them and they me, and we are quite able to discuss all sorts of things in a mutually respectful and often affectionate manner. But when I run into people who prompt nothing but disdain and, as so recently with casper, utter disgust, well, that’s just what happens to people like you.

        Guess you’ll just have to live with it. I have a feeling you have been living with disdain and maybe even disgust for so long, you are desensitized to it. I can tell that casper is. No one here has any use for him at all, but he is evidently so used to being treated like this that it just doesn’t faze him.

      • GMB November 7, 2012 / 2:28 pm

        Again, Well said. Very well said Neo.

      • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 10:34 pm


        “Again, Well said. Very well said Neo”

        seems the shadow didnt agree and deleted it….sad.

      • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 2:29 pm


        To the Hispanics, we let your poor, uneducated, surfs flood our country, now you want to demand our citizenship, SS, medicare, riches handed to you on a silver platter with out earning of them, BEWARE when OPM (our’s) runs out and we become what you ran away from….it will be here soon.

      • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 2:30 pm

        Thanks GMB.

      • GMB November 7, 2012 / 2:39 pm

        “it will be here soon.”

        It is already here. There is no will no fight amongst the GOP leadership. They believe that moving the GOP further to the left is the answer. They are as hooked on OPM as the donks are. I believe I have been saying that for a long time now.

        The GOP pissed away a golden opportunity to pave the way to sanity between 2000-2006. Instead of doing what was right they spent money like there is no tomorrow.

        Money people. The GOP is yours. You own it.

        FORE!!!!!ward All for the cause eh?

      • Retired Spook November 7, 2012 / 9:08 pm


        That’s a marvelous documentary. Every family with young children should see it.

      • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 9:10 pm

        It should be mandatory showing in every household, and church.

      • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 5:29 pm


        First-Ever Video of Wright’s ‘Audacity to Hope’ Sermon Extolling Malcolm X & Condemning Chicago as City That ‘Hates Blacks’ — the Homily Obama Said Brought Him to Christ ( not the real one)

        “…a race despised because of its color…”

      • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 6:02 pm

        the commies like you schwartzPutz

        One mans take

        “I was SO wrong! (Welcome to AmeriKa)
        Vanity ^ | worst day | myself

        I feel so stupid. I have an accredited IQ of over 160, and it seems I am an idiot. I have been put in my place. If given 99 more times to vote against socialism and Obama I would because because logic would dictate no other action.
        But I was truly wrong and stupid to over estimate the intelligence of the common person. I was wrong and stupid to under estimate the selfishness and immorality of the self entitled cursed with the inability to reason.
        I hold no anger or contempt for the unwashed masses that have sentenced us all to mediocrity followed by abject failure.

        The only humane reaction is to pity those that lack the ability to reason, lack the confidence and perseverance to trust in ones self ability to be productive and to survive. For they will be robbed of the feeling of achievement which is what separates the human being from the poop throwing primates. Today we bid farewell to the world’s last good hope of freedom. The once shining light of productive spirit and moral fortitude has been quenched. We will all bear the price of the immoral self entitled electorate. We will all pay the invoice levied by the uninspired.

        To Ben Franklin, John Adams,Thomas Jefferson, and the other founders… Thank you. It was a good run. Your experiment worked for two hundred years and produced the greatest of all in history. Thanks for the memories.

      • 02casper November 7, 2012 / 6:14 pm

        I want to thank you for helping to get Obama elected. I’m sure your racist comments and your obvious hatred for the 47% that don’t pay federal income tax inspired a number of waiters, waitresses, bar tenders, coworkers, and family members to vote for our president. I know you inspired me to vote for him. Florida was close, but you helped bring it home.

      • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 6:33 pm


        sorry no ce-gar….
        the racist card was played to the trillionth multiplier during the last four years, quite old and sooooo alinskyish boring.
        The 47%…truth, refute it if you can, but when the 53% like my self who do produce stop paying those waitresses, bartenders, co-workers and family members because of the coming collapse you can be soooo proud you facilitated it with the rest of the loser drones.

      • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 6:49 pm


        I know you inspired me to vote for him.

        you are a left leaning, never was, never served, coward, for the last umpteen years. You sit in the pews of some liberal “church” and drop your DOLLAR into a basket passed by killer tiller thinking you are sooo sanctimonious, you are nothing but a sniveling whimp and believe me I could ever convince you of anything worth while, as you in your fake arrogance know it all.

        You voted for the commie muslim, racist, because of me?
        Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight Pee Wee !!!

      • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 7:00 pm


        a lot of Germans thought that in 1939, did you learn from them?
        I was not wrong, the man and his regime are pure evil.
        those followers of him are now in the majority, so be it hell is full of them.

      • Amazona November 8, 2012 / 10:45 am

        CO, are you claiming that people here are still saying Silver was wrong?

        Or have you established some arbitrary level of confession and atonement for finding his work less than compelling?

        I never said he was wrong, I merely pointed out what other critics had already discussed in other places that he seemed to be skewing his polls by using so many old polls which had not reflected changing attitudes.

        But of course he was right this time. That is obvious. No one is debating that. What is your problem?

      • thetruthshallsetyoufree2012 November 8, 2012 / 11:39 am

        “I merely pointed out what other critics had already discussed in other places that he seemed to be skewing his polls by using so many old polls which had not reflected changing attitudes.”

        But of course he wasn’t skewing his polls. He was dead on, just like has was in 2010, just like he was in 2008. It was conservatives who were skewing polls–big time–in order to get more pleasing results. This is the exact dynamic that conservatives need to drop: Replacing reality with comforting fiction. I had hoped that the failure of this dynamic would cause you to examine it (and, ultimately, reject it), but that doesn’t seem to be happening.

      • Amazona November 8, 2012 / 12:26 pm

        Silver’s end predictions were accurate.

        This does not contradict the simple FACT that he factored in early polls with very different predictions, which DID shift the conclusions.

        I don’t know if factoring in outdated and subsequently contradicted data into contemporary polls is an accepted tactic or not. I don’t know if it affected the outcome or not.

        I merely pointed out that he did so. His own charts proved it. And logic says that if, for example, one poll had Obama ahead by 4 and the next two had Romney ahead by 7, this should reflect a CHANGE and not an average.

        But however he got where he got, he managed to be right in the end, and no one is challenging that. Why is it so vitally important to you to not only have us acknowledge the obvious but to go back and retract what were legitimate observations at the time?

      • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 6:57 pm

        A friends wife works for Wal Mart,(imagine that) they sold out of over $5000.00 of ammo today.

      • Amazona November 7, 2012 / 10:33 pm

        Oh, casper, you are so full of it. You’ve been wearing your Obama necktie for more than four years now. You are so inherently dishonest you just can’t stop yourself from lying. ” I know you inspired me to vote for him.”

        And of course you claim that neo “hates” the 47%—-just because every thought in that pea brain of yours is incubated in ignorance and hate doesn’t mean everyone is as nasty as you.

      • 02casper November 7, 2012 / 11:00 pm

        I have an Obama tie, although it doesn’t say Obama on it. I wore it once four years ago. However, you and neo do inspire me to vote and support for Obama and others like him. I didn’t say you are the only reasons, just that you give more of an incentive to support him.

        I feel sorry for both you and neo and the hate you carry with you.

      • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 11:12 pm


        like **racist** the term **HATE** has become laughable.
        look to your own party for mountains of BOTH, but not in terms but reality!!

        I love the spec in your eye approach, while there is a redwood forest in yours…..
        LAUGHABLE totally LAUGHABLE!!

      • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 11:48 pm

        zero catspuke

        so if you didnt like your German neighbor you would have been “inspired” to support hitler?

        what a Fn Moron.

      • thetruthshallsetyoufree2012 November 8, 2012 / 1:32 am

        “I feel sorry for both you and neo and the hate you carry with you.”

        Were they always like this? Or did the election send them ’round the bend?

      • neocon01 November 8, 2012 / 9:10 am


        again the terms “racist” and “hate” have rendered useless by over use, they are now laughable terms that once intimitated the weak, go back to alinsky and try again.


        you want to see racism and hate? look up your party and it’s members, you will find it by the galaxy full.

      • Amazona November 8, 2012 / 10:38 am

        Yeah, well, fakename, as you well know, I have always had zero tolerance for lying and have never suffered fools gladly, so I have never had any use for casper and his mewling snot-nuggets. The deep and profound sense of disgust I now have for him is fairly new, and has nothing to do with the election, as you well know, but is due to his wholly inexcusable but quite revealing comment on Benghazi, which gave us all a very nasty peek into a very nasty psyche, one of such vile nature that disgust is the only appropriate response. Thanks to his own revelation of the extent of his true nature, I now consider him a despicable creature and every single word he posts is tainted with the reality of that peek at the true ugliness of his soul.

        The disguise of mild-mannered but misguided school teacher, well-intentioned but clueless, has been stripped away by his own words, and that is not my doing.

      • Amazona November 8, 2012 / 10:26 am

        casper, you are so full of it. You know perfectly well that you never even considered NOT voting for Barry. Evey word you have posted about him here for more than four years has been a loving tribute to his wonderfulness. Other posts have been about your allegiance to Leftist ideas and Leftist government.

        You have never had the integrity to stand up and state an actual understanding and choice of the Leftist political model, but you have defended it and supported it, without fail, for as long as you have been posting on this blog.

        You have often been called on your Leftism, and as you have degenerated into blatant dishonesty and downright nastiness that has been noted as well.

        Your crude, vile, vicious, totally inexcusable comment on Benghazi was so deeply offensive on so many levels, it pushed me from mild contempt for you into outright disgust and a view of you as a profoundly despicable person.

        So you can try to weasel out of this by claiming that I am the one with the problem, but you fool no one but yourself and possibly a couple of fellow travelers. (Which reminds me—–I have been using this term for a few years now, waiting for one of you Lefties to comment on it, and have finally realized that along with your political ignorance you are historically illiterate as well, and don’t know the origin of the term. Pretty funny, for a teacher to not know this. Oh, wait a minute—–isn’t the new meme “sadness”? Or “pity”. OK—-in the spirit of new-Left-speak, I find your ignorance so sad, so deeply sad, that I pity you, sniff sniff croc tears, etc.)

        Sorry, cappy—you have told us what you are, you own that now, and it has nothing to do with me, no matter how desperately you try to backtrack and invent silly pseudo-psychological diagnoses of a fantasy mental condition to shift attention away from your self-revelation as a really nasty piece of work.

        You can play the “There-is-something-wrong-with-her-because-she-is-disgusted-by-disgusting-comments-and-people-who-make-them” game all you want, but as usual, you will just be playing with yourself.

        And, fair warning, I will continue to comment on your snide, hateful, and generally nasty posts.

      • 02casper November 8, 2012 / 11:40 am

        What happened at Benghazi was a tragedy. The way the right tried to use the events was crap and it didn’t fly.
        As for you continuing to comment on my posts, I expect it. I know that if I take two minutes to post 30 words here it will result in hundreds if not thousands of words in response from you and your brother neo over the course of the day. With any luck that means there are others that receive less exposure to your toxic personalities because of that.

      • Amazona November 8, 2012 / 11:49 am

        So now you are backtracking on your Benghazi comment. Typical.

        And now it is, at a distance, just a “tragedy”, with no reference at all to the fact that it was a tragedy that happened because we sent people into harm’s way with the understanding that we would protect them and defend them, and then left them to die because of political considerations in an election cycle.

        Nah, it’s just a sad thing that just happened.

        And of course, identifying the nature of the tragedy and the reasons for the tragedy and lies and coverup efforts after the tragedy do not, in the mind of RRL lemmings like you, reflect badly on those who made the decision to sit in the Situation Room and instruct the people on the ground to stand down and just let it play out, or on those who lied and lied and lied and lied and lied, to the public and to the families, trying to cover up their shameful cowardice and betrayal of the people on the ground and of the American public.

        No, to people like you, the only shameful thing lay in exposing it. To people like you, the only reason to expose this kind of despicable behavior is to “use” it.

        I notice you did not comment on Obama and Clinton using the photo op of being there when the caskets were returned to the U.S., even though the families of the murdered talked about how they turned away once the cameras were turned off, and how Clinton continued the lie about the video when talking to the father of one of the murdered men. No, that was not “using” the event.

        Only exposing the truth could be spun by the Left into something shameful, while the act itself gets a pass.

        And what you said was crude, and vicious, and inexcusable,no matter how you try to spin it now.

        And it’s not my fault that I can type faster than you can think. Of course, when you are not lying it does speed things up.

        So you just keep mewling that the truth is “toxic”—I can see why this would form such a large part of your reality.

      • Amazona November 8, 2012 / 11:51 am

        “brother” neo and I ARE brothers in arms, in the fight against dishonesty and Leftist attacks on our Constitutional way of government.

        I can see why that would bother you.

      • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 5:47 pm


        and AWAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY we Goooooooooooooo

        Boehner: New taxes OK under right conditions
        MarketWatch ^ | 11/7/12 | Robert Schroeder

        WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) –**** New revenues ****”under the right conditions” are ****acceptable to Republicans***** as part of a deal to reduce the deficit, House Speaker John Boehner said Wednesday

      • GMB November 7, 2012 / 7:22 pm

        It didn’t take the chief stooge long did it? Sleeping with the enemy is ingrained in the GOP. Suck it money men and women. Remember this is the best the GOP can do. Those in the halls of power are the best the GOP can do. The three stooges are the best the GOP can do.

        Let that sink in.

        The blame game is already being played with Social Conservatives and TEA Party folks being the main target.

        Not that Mitt was a dyed in the wool liberal, progressive, isle crossing, idea evolving, RINO

        No never that.

        No never mind that the vast majority of us sucked it up and voted for your money man. It is still our fault Mitt lost.

        Christy and Kirk 2016!!! Cause gosh darn it Mitt was just not far enough to the left.

      • Amazona November 8, 2012 / 12:20 pm

        Yeah, but the quote is about “new REVENUES”, not new taxes. The headline is misleading.

        What we would call “wrong”.

      • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 4:31 pm


        do not have pity for Ama, she merely speaks the truth and the truth hurts eh?
        you must be so proud to be a member of the communist plan to destroy America from within…….
        NO; I pity slime ball, weasel, pukes like you who never had the balls to serve your country, only use it as a rubber for your own gratitude then throw it away for OPM and a lie of “fairness”

      • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 7:18 pm

        de Tocqueville Was Right
        200 Years Ago | Alexis de Tocqueville

        “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years.”

        Alexis de Tocqueville

      • Amazona November 7, 2012 / 10:52 pm

        Gee, cappy, I am just going to copy what YOU write here. My own comments are not necessary. Yours stand alone as indictments of your character and your intelligence and your honesty and your decency.

      • J. R. Babcock (@JRBabcock) November 7, 2012 / 1:37 pm

        And trust me, I am going to extract as much money from you and your generation as possible.

        Can you say Cloward & Piven? Now wouldn’t that karma be a bitch — using their own playbook against them?

      • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 4:08 pm

        I am going to extract as much money from you and your generation as possible.

        BINGO……….and WE know how to loot the looters. 🙂

    • 02casper November 7, 2012 / 9:44 am

      America is no less exceptional than it was 24 hours ago. Unemployment is going down and will continue to do so. The economy is getting better and will continue to do so. With Obama’s win we have a chance to rebuild the middle class. Life is good.

      • Cluster November 7, 2012 / 9:59 am

        This is the new norm Casper. Gas prices between $3 and $4 a gallon, unemployment at 8%, corporations continuing to move jobs overseas to escape the taxes that will be required to pay for the selfish, and GDP of less than 3%. This is as good as it gets.

      • Amazona November 7, 2012 / 10:17 am

        You are right, Cluster—this is as good as it is going to get.

        Drones like casper, who will never be in a higher tax bracket, will continue to suck the life out of the economy and the nation by penalizing success, and then blame Big Business and the Koch Brothers and, of course, BANKSTERS, for the misery.

        He is, predictably, completely clueless as to how the banks arrived at where they are now, starting with the government telling them they had to abandon prudent and proven banking principles to advance social engineering experiments, and then constantly changing other laws to try to keep this experimentation from destroying them.

        The poor silly sap actually seems to think that unemployment went down! This guy is actually a TEACHER and he has no idea of how the figures are tallied.

        He probably thinks the economy is really getting better, too. Yeah, if by “better” you mean making less and paying more.

        But then he seems to think that “rebuilding the middle class” will happen when we destroy the Employer Class and expand the Dependent Class.

      • Amazona November 7, 2012 / 10:19 am

        casper did, as usual, state the obvious. No, America is no less exceptional than it was 24 hours ago.

        The point is, it is far less exceptional than it was four years ago.

  11. GMB November 7, 2012 / 9:25 am

    No doubt about it. Mitt ran a good campaign. Maybe could of been a tad better but that’s all water under the bridge now.

    But hey, I would like to thank the opposition for ninety-nine years of unchecked communism/progressivism. Now the takers out number the makers and it is only going to get worse.

    Help us John Boehner, help us Eric Cantor, Help us Mitch McConnell, oh please help us. You are our only hope.

    Good luck.

  12. 02casper November 7, 2012 / 9:59 am

    In response to your points.

    “1. Yes, we need to have an amnesty for illegals.”

    I agree, both because it’s the right thing to do and it’s the Republican’s only way to save your party. The longer you wait, the more Hispanics become life long Democrats.

    “2. We need to break our ties entirely with Big Business –”

    Great idea, but it’s never going to happen. The GOP is the party of big business and will continue to be so. The Kochs, the Wallmart heirs, and Banksters own you.

    “3. We must start to work, on a State-by-State level, for a Freedom of Conscience Restoration Amendment to the Constitution ”

    Nice idea, but I don’t see a lot of support for it even in your party.

    “4. We must attack and attack and then attack some more the growing immorality in our popular culture.”

    Great idea, but it isn’t going to happen with the current GOP

    • Amazona November 7, 2012 / 10:11 am

      I think we should have amnesty for everyone who has broken a law. Why should anyone who has broken a law be held accountable?

      And of course once we offer amnesty we might as well get rid of the border completely as it will then be no more than a symbolic gesture, a memory of a past time when we had a national identity, kind of like the Constitution.

      Interesting, though, to see casper agree that Latinos are so craven their votes can be bought.

      And nice catty snarl, there, cappy, at the end.

      Classic casper

      • 02casper November 7, 2012 / 11:10 am

        I truly feel sorry for you. You must have had some terrible things happen to you to make you such a bitter, nasty person.

      • Amazona November 7, 2012 / 12:30 pm

        That’s what you get from what I said?

        Listen, casper, every single thing I say about you is about YOU, not about me. I know that as a hardcore Lefty giddy from so recently lurching out of the closet and shedding your moderate disguise you are deeply invested in blaming others for your own shortcomings, but you have offered us too many examples of your bizarre thought processes to get any traction by now trying to blame the messenger for the message that you are an idiot.

        You said that amnesty for illegals is the only way Republicans can keep Latinos from becoming Democrats. Just how is that different from buying Latino votes by ignoring our laws?

        And YOU are the one who tried to trivialize the craven cowardice of Dear Leader, as his staff watched good Americans get butchered over a seven hour period during when they begged for help and support, painted an enemy mortar position with targeting radar in the belief it would be hit by American ordnance in spite of putting themselves at what turned out to be fatal risk to do so, and were abandoned to die because of political considerations of the man supposed to be our leader.

        You not only wrote this off as trivial, you compounded the sin by claiming that the RIght got sexual gratification from the event because they thought it might rebound badly on Obama, and phrasing your twisted idea in a very crude sexual comment.

        You are a despicable human being. Period. And don’t even bother pulling a Velma and trying to pretend I only notice it because of something about ME. No, casper, it is you, it is all you, and you are a horrible person.

  13. Retired Spook November 7, 2012 / 10:07 am

    Excellent wrap-up and analysis by Dan Balz at the Washington Post this morning.

    After a long and arduous campaign, a newly reelected President Obama confronts his next challenge: binding together a deeply divided nation and turning from campaigning to governing.

    The irony is that the most expensive election in American history produced a status-quo outcome. Now the question is whether it will change the status quo that has governed Washington not just during Obama’s presidency but for most of the past decade.

    Obama will confront a daunting agenda, from an economy that is still far less robust than he had promised it would be to the looming problem of debt, deficits and the growth of federal entitlement programs that produced an ugly battle during his first term. The “fiscal cliff” looms in December, which either will force action and agreement or define a new landscape of disagreement.

    Tuesday’s election produced an uncertain mandate, although Obama will attempt to claim one. Obama offered a plan for the future, but not one that deals directly with some of the problems he will have to confront immediately. His campaign was geared more to defining and attacking opponent Mitt Romney than creating a mandate for a second term.

    We have a President who, after being elected to the U.S. Senate in 2004, spent over half of the next four years campaigning for President, and then spent much of his first term running for a second. Now it’s fish or cut bait time. He has inherited a mess — AGAIN, and, quite frankly, given his complete cluelessness about how to solve it, I fully expect him to keep blaming Bush for another 4 years.

  14. GMB November 7, 2012 / 10:08 am

    “let the adults handle the heavy lifting.”

    At least we know that excludes you.

  15. J. R. Babcock (@JRBabcock) November 7, 2012 / 10:36 am

    A class act right to the end. From Romney’s impromptu concession speech:

    Romney went on to encourage bipartisanship — noting that in difficult times division is not the answer — and added that America’s citizens must also “rise to the occasion.”

    The Republican leader closed with an optimistic push for first principles.

    “I believe in America,” Romney continued to cheers. “And I ran for office because I am concerned about America. This election is over but our principles endure. I believe that the principles upon which this nation was founded are the only sure guide to a resurgent economy and to a new greatness.” (emphasis – mine)

    “Like so many of you, Paul and I have left everything on the field. We have given our all to this campaign. I so wish – I so wish that I had been able to fulfill your hopes to lead the country in a different direction, but the nation chose another leader. And so Ann and I join with you to earnestly pray for him and for this great nation.”

    I would agree with his call for bipartisanship only to the extent that compromise should never EVER result in less freedom and less prosperity.

  16. GMB November 7, 2012 / 10:40 am

    “the most important battles must be cultural ones, because culture and media inevitably shape the political choices we make together.”

    Maybe just maybe if we had more Andrew Breitbarts and less people concerned with money we would have been more successful?

    You say no?

    Oh well.

    Nanny Bloomberg in 2016!!!

    Yay 2014 the next “most important election of our life time” Then another Yay for 2016, the next, next, “most important election of our life time”

    Hope you are all stocked up on ammunition. It is going to get hard to find.

  17. bagni November 7, 2012 / 10:42 am

    markie mark
    lots of heads exploding here today
    unfortunately the rnc picked the wrong candidate
    and you guys all knew it….you just went along for the desperate ride to get rid of barry
    frankly….huntsman had a better shot long term of beating obama
    but he was too much center for you
    and ironically if mitt ran any faster to the center this last month he’d had a heart attack
    you can always move to minnesota
    because there’s michelle b to guide your life ::))
    and allan west? he’s still too close to call but hopefully……

    • Cluster November 7, 2012 / 11:00 am


      Romney has been my candidate for 8 years. He is a decent, hard working, successful business man who governed Mass. very well, even extending a sensible health care program to the state of which they all like. He balanced budgets, increased employment and did not raise taxes. He is, and was my perfect candidate.

      Instead, this country elected a pot smoking, inexperienced socialist. Congratulations on your new society.

    • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 4:48 pm

      nanu nanu
      todays “CENTER” was full blown communism for JFK.

  18. bardolf2 November 7, 2012 / 11:24 am

    No mention of the great Libertarian victory in Colorado last night!

    Well, I’m hopeful with the government in trouble financially that they can no longer afford to prosecute the war on drugs. I’m hopeful that the wars in the middle east will have to take a back seat to building things, drilling for things and growing things.

    Eventually the banks will start doing their job again and investing in small business. With no ‘stability’ in sight for the too big to fail they have to die with the money in their hands or do something with it.

    Technology will push down the cost of energy in the coming 4 years. Nothing Obama does will prevent that. Not wind farm stuff but biofuels based on good science unlike ethanol. That’ll push down food prices, again this is just in the cards not Obama’s doing.

    The big education bubble is about to burst. That 100,000 dollar criminal justice degree is looking worse every day and even pot smoking teens will see that. When the education bubble bursts money will be freed up for tinkering and more small business. Again, nothing Obama will contribute.

    Social Conservatives like me need to focus on 1 issue, not 10 issues. My worry about gay marriage is .00000001 percent of my concern for pro-life issues.

    GMB has it right when he said a move away from money and materialism is what the GOP needs today.

    Cheer up, things can only get better!

    • GMB November 7, 2012 / 11:31 am

      “Very well said Bardolf” Very well said.

      Cheer up, things can only get better!

      If only I had your optimism. It is my biggest failing.

    • Amazona November 7, 2012 / 12:53 pm

      “With no ‘stability’ in sight for the too big to fail they have to die with the money in their hands or do something with it.”

      Nice theory, but irrelevant to the fact that they have little or no say in the matter. They are hamstrung by new regulations, which the ignorant love in theory just because they are brainwashed into thinking all banks are bad and all regs are good.

      Just try to get a small business loan these days, and look at the kinds of things you have to go through. It is nearly impossible. My bank was so grateful that I had real estate to collateralize, because that was an area that had not yet been constrained by the feds into complete paralysis.

      Banks know that money sitting there is wasted opportunity, but their hands are tied when it comes to financing small business, and start-ups are a no-go, no matter what the business, what the experience and expertise and successful experience of the partners, what the market might be, etc. Quite simply the way several banks put it to us was, if we could not afford to finance the new company ourselves they could not loan us any money.

      Our bank is running more than a million dollars a month through one of our accounts, and has been almost since we opened. They have our records, they have our profits in another account, they have our work history, they have copies of our contracts—-and they were still not allowed to make a small business loan for expansion.

      Don’t tell me that banks prefer to be stagnant, and watching profit opportunity pass them by.

      • bardolf2 November 7, 2012 / 2:59 pm

        I’m not talking banks that meet with ranchers and are subject to regulations. I’m talking Banks that write the regulations, that put their board members into cabinet positions, i.e. too big to fail.

        I would remind you that getting rid of ‘the feds’ was not exactly a Romney priority.

      • Amazona November 8, 2012 / 12:05 pm

        “I would remind you that getting rid of ‘the feds’ was not exactly a Romney priority.”

        Well, I am glad to hear that, because if he had he would have been validating the Lefty lie that conservatives want no government.

        I am fascinated by the perception of banks that seems to preoccupy the Left. As far as I can tell, it is based upon the fantasy that after centuries of lending money and profiting handsomely, due to the prudent principle of only lending money to people who are most likely to be able to pay it back, for some reason in the 80s or 90s American bankers all got together, big banks and small, and decided “Since lending money to people likely to be able to repay the loans has been so profitable, let’s start lending money to people who clearly can’t.”

        And then, after the foolishness of this wholly voluntary decision to turn an established lending principle on its head had resulted in a predictable cascade of negative consequences, each of which required a legislative Band-aid to “fix” it, such as letting banks dump the resulting bad loans on investors, those same banking geniuses got together again and decided “Since we make money by lending out money and collecting interest on it, let’s try just locking it in the vault and sitting on it instead of making loans.”

        And I guess, from your comment, that you think that the next step would be to have these banks actually write formal regulations to force them to just sit on this money, and dismiss the age-old calculation of loss of opportunity by making it law that they HAD to keep this money out of circulation and therefore out of the profit stream.


        As for “…putting board members into cabinet positions..” I sense a little tinfoil hat influence there. No bank can PUT anyone into a cabinet position, though certainly a bank could strongly influence a President to appoint a bank official to one.

    • Amazona November 7, 2012 / 12:57 pm

      It will be interesting to see the reaction when the giddy exultation of passing the marijuana legalization amendment in Colorado, pushed by the Left, runs into the stifling of state sovereignty, which is a byproduct of the political system they support and just put back into office.


      The state says yes, the feds say no, and what to do????? Surely not elect a system that believes in the 10th Amendment! Surely not a system that champions states’ rights!

      Nope, when you elect a system based on unrestrained federal power and authority, you get unrestrained federal power and authority.

      Funny how that works……………

      • bardolf2 November 7, 2012 / 3:02 pm

        I don’t know why the right would be against passing marijuana legalization. Again, if the federal powers come in and usurp the rights of the citizens of Colorado that can only help the GOP case with the youth vote in the future.

        win-win for the GOP

  19. GMB November 7, 2012 / 11:28 am

    “By the time you hit your golden years, you’ll be living in the province of Arizona.”

    If this country even exits by then, this will most likely be a true statement. I see no ability by those who concern themselves only with money to stop it.

    How much longer will the makers allow themselves to taken from is another matter. Again thanks for the mess you money men and women have left us.

  20. bagni November 7, 2012 / 12:30 pm

    one more thing?
    the interstellar irony of it all?
    rove personally skims millions off of his citizens united exploitation
    then has nothing to show the billionaires he skimmed it from
    and all while hurting the party badly….
    you think he cares? ::((

    • Amazona November 7, 2012 / 12:34 pm

      baggy, can your prove what you said about Rove? Because if you can’t, it’s libel. And it is a vicious and vile extension of the Left’s dependence on the politics of personal destruction.

      You say he “skims” which is a weasel word for stealing.

      You say he “exploits” this group.

      Prove it.

      Oh, that’s right. You don’t DO facts—you just do cutsie-wutsie wittow pweshuss simpering.

      • bagni November 7, 2012 / 12:54 pm

        dearest ama
        so you’re saying rove didn’t make any money off his blatant exploitation of the ruling?
        and then pull the ‘libel’ word out of your lonely right pocket?
        give me a break, if he’d share his 2012 w2 vs. his 2010 w2 you’d have your “proof”
        i thought you were smarter than that
        what a snotty, catty, petty, bitchy thing you are…..
        love and kisses….as always

      • Amazona November 7, 2012 / 1:05 pm

        Oh, baggy, do not play the silly Lefty game of putting words in my mouth.

        Or are you consulting that Lefty ReWrite Dictionary again, where being paid a consulting fee is the same thing as “skimming” ?

        Tell us, dear pointy-nose snoop, just how much Rove was paid by this group. Oh, that’s right—you CAN’T. You could, you claim, if you only had access to his private records. You COULD, if ONLY….

        And what a nice guy Mr. Rove would be, to list his ill-gotten “skimming” on his tax forms.

        I don’t know how much Rove was paid, if anything—-and by the way, neither do you. It’s just that your sour, surly nature must have something nasty to chew on, so you need to believe there is something fishy here.

        I do know that Rove worked his ass off, as I saw him all over the place, flying from one city to another to make appearances, doing the leg work for the group, and by the way their ads were the best of the campaign.

        It is that despised capitalist system at work again. Gee, he should have done it the Lefty way, started a “green” business, dropped a lot of money on the Obama campaign, gotten a multi-million dollar “loan” with no oversight, and then folded up the tent and slipped away, with no one knowing where the money went.

        Instead, the bastid EARNED it.

        So sorry you get paid so little for whatever advice you provide, but the simple fact is, if Citizens United chose to pay Rove any amount, it was their decision, not yours, it is in their records, it is honest and above board, and it was most definitely NOT “skimming”. Rove has skills they wanted and needed, and they paid him for them.

        The libel assertion stands, and I will forward your post to C.U.

        As far as your love and kisses, I saw your picture, and no thanks.

        Besides, I am not your type, being female and all………….

  21. Amazona November 7, 2012 / 1:26 pm

    What I see in this election is a dependence on Magical Thinking.

    In 2008, those who thought about politics at all, instead of personality, based their votes on the Magical Thinking of “Although it has never worked before, I think it might work this time.”

    In 2012, though, it was worse, because it had spread to those who never think about real politics at all, who still thought “Well, it didn’t work this time, but if we keep doing it maybe something will change and it will start to work.”

    Even the Pres is subject to Magical Thinking, as he looks forward to PERFECTING THIS NATION using means that have never even allowed a nation to survive intact, much less become Utopia.

  22. mitchethekid November 7, 2012 / 1:34 pm

    Half of the problem the Republican party has is The Tea Party. The extremist views, the no compromise on anything, the rejection of their own ideas, the fear of popular culture, and an obliviousness to the change that has taken place in the electorate. The other half is The Tea Party.

    • neocon01 November 7, 2012 / 4:54 pm


      constitution = TEA extremest views

      marxist islam, sodomy, murder of babies, theft through taxes, destruction of constitution, = donks progress.

  23. GMB November 7, 2012 / 2:07 pm

    Debt ceiling battle coming up shortly. Anyone want to make any predictions on how fast the two stooges in the house cave?

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