Secession is Still the Answer

Surprised that nearly ten years have passed since I first wrote on this subject. I stand by it. I bring it up now because Marjorie Taylor Greene Tweeted about a national divorce and it has caused people – Right and Left – to lose their minds. But such things do need to be discussed – and acted upon after discussion.

The word “secession” has a bad connotation in American usage because of the Civil War. And, in truth, the secessionists of 1861 were entirely unjustified in their action. As we state in our Declaration of Independence, it can at times become necessary for a people to dissolve the bands which have connected them to another people. But as the Declaration also says, this is only justified if the other people have by a series of usurpations and and injustices proven that their aim is subjugation. The South had no such cause in 1861 – and, in fact, the incoming Lincoln Administration (used at the proximate cause for secession) had repeatedly pledged to take no action against Southern institutions. And any action that might be taken in the future would follow the Constitutional order which would take into consideration Southern demands. You can’t rebel because of what someone might do to you at some future date – you can only justly rebel over past, ongoing or obviously imminent injustices.

But secession is not an inherently bad thing. After all, the Founders were secessionists. They had determined that the British government was determined to treat the American colonies as a cash cow with no reference to the needs or desires of the colonists – to reduce the colonies to subjugation. And, so, they seceded. And they weren’t the only people to ever do this. Norway is a secession from Sweden. Slovakia a secession from Czechoslovakia. It happens. Some times people just can’t live together and it is better that they live apart. And it might be time for us to consider that.

Back in 2013 I only meant secession in the sense of breaking up the States. My prime example then was California which is, in reality, four States with three of them subjected to the State running from Long Beach to San Francisco. The people of North, South and East California are fully justified in seeking secession from California – if they want it – because the actions of that part of California running along the coast clearly seek to subject the rest of California to their dictates without the people in the subjected areas having any real power to affect policy. Other States which are clearly more than the one legal entity currently existing are Nevada, New York, Illinois, Washington and Oregon…and cases can be made for Texas, Florida and Pennsylvania. In order to really have self government, the States will eventually have to be broken up – we cannot forever allow a few high population areas within a State to dictate to the rest of the State. People have rights – and their primary political right is to live under the laws they wish, not under the laws someone else wishes for them.

But now I am starting to wonder if the United States can remain together. I’m wondering whether secession is not just the answer partially, but totally?

Of course, it isn’t a simple split – not State by State. In fact, the part of the country which is moving me to think of separation is about 20 cities. They just happen to be very large population cities and they control the political destiny of half the Country (at least). If we are to separate, it won’t really be so much, say, 30 States going one way and 20 going the other…it’ll be about 100 counties going one way and all the rest going another. Essentially, the cities of Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, New York and Chicago need to be dealt with. But I don’t mean dealt with as they wish to deal with us – I wish in no way to dictate to San Francisco how the people there live. I just want to make sure the people of San Francisco can’t dictate how I live. We need to figure out if there is a way to retain San Francisco in a union which includes Provo, Utah and where both San Francisco and Provo mind their own business.

Can we do that? I’m not sure. The trouble is that these cities by their inordinate political power control the government, the media and most of the education and corporate establishments. They don’t want to leave us alone. They feel a duty to force us to live by their rules, even if their rules are downright insane. It might prove impossible to reconcile the differences…and the biggest stumbling block is going to be that the other side consider it immoral to mind their own business.

But, meanwhile, if we can save the Union, our best shot is to break up the States – and maybe make the large cities into City-States. But one way or the other, secession is the answer…either in unity or disunity.

99 thoughts on “Secession is Still the Answer

  1. Cluster February 21, 2023 / 8:36 am

    The Founders rebelled over taxation without representation correct? What representation do conservatives really have? McConnell?? McCarthy?? Hardly. President Trump was the only true defender of American conservative values since Reagan and he was so successful, the Ruling Class did everything possible to dethrone him including unleashing a virus and killing tens of thousands of people. That is how much disdain they have for traditional Americans. They sell out our jobs, they impoverish our inner cities, they don’t secure our borders, they allow lethal drugs to flow freely, they don’t educate our children, they censor our speech, they initiate needless wars around the world, they erect walls to protect themselves, and when toxic chemicals are unleashed on unsuspecting Americans, they fly to Ukraine and to support the Ukrainian people. That should tell you who they are.

    Under President Trump there were no wars, there was no baby formula shortages, they were no mass layoffs, there was no inflation, there was no chaos at the southern border, there were no fences at the Capital, there were no drag shows in kindergartens, there were no Chinese spy balloons, there were no food processing plants burning down, and there were no toxic train derailments.

  2. Cluster February 21, 2023 / 8:52 am

    Democrats and teacher unions are one in the same. Teacher unions overwhelmingly vote Democrat and in turn, Democrats staunchly support teacher unions. Well, this is who they are really are ….

    A new report has found that Illinois has 60 public schools at which zero students reported grade-level proficiency in either reading or math, in a troubling sign for the state’s education system.

    They are killing our kids. A national divorce is not only warranted, it’s necessary to save our children.

  3. Retired Spook February 21, 2023 / 9:32 am

    Some sort of geo-political realignment is something I’ve been thinking a lot about lately. In Indiana we’re fortunate to have a near super majority of Republicans in the state legislature, and we’ve had a string of GOP governors since 2005 after Democrats had brought the state to the brink of bankruptcy. And, while it’s far from perfect, the only large city is Indianapolis, and it’s not an uber-liberal city.

    Separating the largest and most liberal metro areas into city states would be a lot more beneficial to Conservatives than it would be to Liberals, at least from a crime and economic standpoint, because urban areas are where most of the crime is, and the balance of the very rich and the very poor is pretty lopsided in favor of the very poor. Wealthy elites in city states would have to bear an even greater burden of taxation than they already do. I know — boo hoo, right?

    • Retired Spook February 21, 2023 / 11:09 am

      My guess is that most Conservatives and Conservative Libertarians would be delighted to “divorce” themselves from the smug, condescending control freaks on the Left, and while Leftists might publicly parrot that sentiment, they need us a lot more than we need them.

      • Amazona February 21, 2023 / 12:41 pm

        I’ve been saying for years that we should break up our states to free the citizens from the rigid rule of the big cities. Secession doesn’t make sense to me—read Kurt Schlichter’s books to see what that could be like. Instead of creating new countries, just improve the one we have.

        I think one of the most effective actions in a tug of war is to just let go of your end of the rope. So in the battle the Left is trying to start about adding states (a battle we foolishly contribute to, BTW, in fussing about DC—that would require an amendment) my strategy would be to stop pulling back on our end of the rope and resisting, and to drop the rope and say “You know, adding states is a great idea. But we need more than just two.” And go on, as I have said, for a total of ten new states. Give them Puerto Rico if they insist—-but split California into three states, add a new state along the east range of the Olympics made up of eastern Washington and Oregon, add a new state in Illinois, split New York, carve out the eastern side of Colorado and add it to the western sides of Kansas and Nebraska, and divide Nevada. Florida, given its geography and population, should probably be included in this though I don’t see a need for it.

        That would give us two “California” states not controlled by L.A., a northwestern state not controlled by Portand or Seattle, an agricultural state not controlled by Chicago, another not controlled by Denver or Lincoln or Topeka and better representation for citizens of New York. That’s six right there. Six states which, if you look at the electoral map, are bright red. So give them Puerto Rico as a consolation prize.

        Texas should be divided, but if we’re trying to avoid a war I don’t think we should go there. But…just speculating—that should be three states at least, leaving one state run by Austin and the other two a lot closer to sanity. And I’m sure there is another state that would benefit from being divided.

        And there you go—ten new states, nine of which represent freeing citizens from the iron grasp of Leftist control in big cities. And increasing actual representational government, by having each Senator and Representative have a smaller constituency.

        Then, in a parallel move, develop a much stronger allegiance to the Constitution, to state sovereignty, to the Tenth Amendment.

        I think the single move of partitioning several states would put this country well back on track

  4. Cluster February 21, 2023 / 9:34 am

    Amazona referred to this yesterday … but it needs to be repeated. I honestly believe the United States Government, under the complete control of the Domestic Security State, is at war with the American people. And we better wake up to this fact soon.

    Why did the CDC update its page for vinyl chloride nearly two weeks before the Ohio train derailment? The CDC edited its profile for vinyl chloride just recently, removing a section on how the chemical affects children.

  5. Retired Spook February 21, 2023 / 12:41 pm

    Democrats’ reaction to Kevin McCarthy giving Tucker Carlson access to 41,000 hours of Jan. 5th video is hilarious!

    • jdge1 February 21, 2023 / 1:22 pm

      It’s hard to overstate the potential security risks if this material were used irresponsibly.

      I agree 100%. However, the security risks they’re referring is not for the nation but rather, their own hides. It was painfully obvious this material was used irresponsibly by the previous Jan. 6th committee to create division, instigate lies and the destruction of all political opposition. Those on the committee should be prosecuted for their part in this intentional deception.

      • Cluster February 21, 2023 / 3:06 pm

        One can attest that this material was already used irresponsibly

      • Amazona February 21, 2023 / 4:54 pm

        Now all of a sudden they’re worried about “security risks”?

        After the Secretary of State communicated with the President of the United States on an unsecured, illegal server stashed in her bathroom? For years? If you wonder what security risks a Sec/State might engender, just remember Benghazi.

        Senior Senator Dianne Feinstein has been driven by a Chinese spy for at least a couple of decades, and as people do talk on phones in cars, and people do confide in people who have been serving them for years, and as Dianne has dementia anyway, who knows what security risks were there?

        At least we can assume her driver didn’t pick up secrets through pillow talk, like Smallwell’s spy girlfriend could have. Whispers, giggles, or going through his papers while he was sleeping. Bang Bang Fang Fang was a pretty big security risk.

        Then there was the entire Democrat side of the House running its emails through a family of shady Iranians. Iranians? Cluster, you followed that more closely than I did. But even after being warned that this was a security risk, they continued, and Debbie Wassinger kept her relationship with them going. I should probably refresh my memory on that one—it was a doozy.

        And you’re right—these were risks to the whole country, while there’s a pretty good chance the papers Trump kept were kept to prevent them from being destroyed, as they prove the complicity of our government all the way into the Obama White House to rig an election, with perjury and foreign spies and all sorts of interesting stuff likely to be in those files.

  6. jdge1 February 21, 2023 / 1:07 pm

    No voter fraud here. Just because judges refuse the hear cases and / or review evidence, this issue will not go away. In fact, ignoring the growing and overwhelming evidence will culminate in violence if not dealt with sooner than later.

    • Amazona February 21, 2023 / 4:42 pm

      But…but…but this was, like, fewer than 100 votes! And it was just one guy! It wasn’t WIDESPREAD!!!

      Remember the narrative, jdge, remember the narrative.

  7. jdge1 February 21, 2023 / 1:41 pm

    All of you crazy conspiracy theorists. Of course this is just another unrelated coincidence.

    • Cluster February 21, 2023 / 3:12 pm

      You have to wonder if the mainland is not under attack. Train derailments, food processing plants across the country burning down, plastic plant in FL burnt to the ground, the avian flu which killed hundreds of thousands of chickens, etc. … our food supply is being restricted while toxic chemicals are being unleashed. All the while tik tok and fentynal are literally killing young Americans. I never thought America would be in this bad of shape, but this country is damn near gone.

      • Amazona February 21, 2023 / 4:56 pm

        Don’t forget shutting down fertilizer supplies and trying to choke off diesel supplies. When farmers and ranchers can’t grow animal feed they have to kill the animals, leading to meat shortages. But I’m sure the new Bug Cuisine is just another coincidence.

      • Amazona February 21, 2023 / 4:58 pm

        I never thought America would be in this bad of shape, but this country is damn near gone.

        And they’ve done this much damage in only TWO YEARS!

        But what scares the Left? Fox and Trump.

      • Cluster February 21, 2023 / 9:48 pm

        That’s hilarious and surreal at the same time

  8. Cluster February 22, 2023 / 9:51 am

    So MSNBC is almost all war talk 24/7 now. This morning they were discussing Taiwan and how Biden’s strength in Ukraine will preclude China from going into Taiwan. Remember now it was the Americans who encouraged the Ukraine conflict by constantly insisting that Ukraine join NATO, and then of course Biden saying that nothing would be done if it were a “light incursion”. Well now we have Americans taunting China … WTF has happened to the Democrat Party?? They are all war mongering, gender fluid pieces of shit anymore. Truly despicable people who all need to apologize to real Americans.

  9. Cluster February 22, 2023 / 10:00 am

    Through endless wars, abortion, and the fentynal crisis, Democrats have become the Party of Death.

  10. Cluster February 22, 2023 / 10:03 am

    This guy is interesting

    America’s strength is not our diversity but the ideals that unify us across our differences. Merit. Free speech. Truth. Accountability. I believe deep in my bones these ideals still exist, and I am running for President to revive them

    Now I don’t know if he is a naturalized citizen or not but he has my attention right now.

    • Amazona February 22, 2023 / 11:34 am

      He was born in Cincinnati but his parents were immigrants and I can’t find out when (or if) they were naturalized. His mother’s page on Texas Health says Madras Medical College – Medical Education – 1996
      University of Louisville School of Medicine – Residency-2002
      but another site listed her as graduating from a different medical school in India in 1978.

      I understand it is frustrating to find such great potential candidates disqualified for the presidency (if he is, which we don’t know) but I still understand the reasoning behind the law. We had a president whose natural born citizenship came through his mother but his father hated the United States (as she did as well) and we saw what it was like to have a president who disliked and disrespected this country.

      Ramaswarmy appears to truly love and respect the United States so that’s not an issue here. But the meaning of Natural Born Citizen might be, as well as an accurate analysis of the 14th Amendment. If it is finally adjudicated to mean that people born in this country to parents who are under the jurisdiction of any other country (ie: citizens) are not citizens of the United States that would open up new concerns.

      Nothing against Ramaswarmy—he’s very impressive and would probably make a good president.

      • Retired Spook February 22, 2023 / 11:56 am

        The more time that passes, the more likely it is that the U.S. born son or daughter of immigrants will not owe allegiance to the country of his/her parents’ birth. The vast majority of immigrants come here to escape tyranny and for a better life. Still, it would be nice to finally adjudicate the natural-born issue once and for all.

      • Amazona February 22, 2023 / 12:26 pm

        It’s definitely not an easy subject to address, but I think lack of clarity just creates future problems.

        And an immigrant can become a citizen. The law as I understand it does not eliminate the children of immigrants from eligibility, just those who were not yet citizens at the time of the proposed candidate’s birth.

        And there is the ongoing controversy over the true meaning of the 14th Amendment. If it is finally adjudicated to mean people born here ONLY to parents who are not under the jurisdiction of any other country (ie: citizens) then that would mean that citizenship cannot be conveyed merely by geography.

        It seems like a pretty orderly progression: Come here, get naturalized so you are no longer under the jurisdiction of your native country because now you are a citizen of the United States, and from then on your children can be eligible for the presidency. Have children while you are still legally under the jurisdiction of your native country, they won’t be.

        I think we need to look at the potential dangers of anchor babies and weigh them against the loss of some well-qualified presidential candidates. The anchor baby issue kind of cancels out the natural born citizen issue.

  11. Amazona February 22, 2023 / 10:31 am

    General Michael Flynn: “Vice President Biden… I don’t think most people know but Vice President Biden, I think in his last year that he was the Vice President, he visited Ukraine like 12 or 13 times. It’s an incredible amount of times. First of all, there’s only 12 months in a year and for the Vice President of the United States spending that much time in the Ukraine, you have to ask why?

    And every single one of those trips needs to be investigated. How many of them did Hunter participate on? Or how many did Joe Biden bring his brother on? All these kinds of issues, the kinds of questions, the type of questions that need to be asked, and it doesn’t need to be asked in back rooms. It needs to be asked in public.”

    • Cluster February 22, 2023 / 11:11 am

      I am convinced that this blatant Biden family crime and corruption will go nowhere … even with a GOP Congress. Too many other ruling class members on the take, including McConnell.

      • Amazona February 22, 2023 / 11:48 am

        They will probably never be prosecuted but it would a victory, albeit a small one and way too late, to prove to Biden voters that they were bamboozled—deceived by our Complicit Agenda Media, lied to by the party and many in our government, and that they voted for the man who is the biggest example of political corruption in our history.

      • Cluster February 22, 2023 / 1:19 pm

        I really do have a question to all Biden voters … how much more evidence do you need to realize that not only is Biden and his family corrupted by foreign adversaries, but he and his party also harbor deep disdain for this country and it’s people? It’s just in your face now as fake Dr. Jill flies off to Africa to help bring resources there.

        We can’t get rid of this President fast enough.

      • Amazona February 22, 2023 / 1:22 pm

        My question for Biden voters is “Why don’t you CARE?”

      • Cluster February 22, 2023 / 4:26 pm

        You don’t think the DOJ has looked into Ivanka’s business??? You know that’s the same DOJ that investigated the completely manufactured Russia collusion so I have to think if they had something in Ivanka and Jared, we would all know it. But that’s using common sense of which you are bereft of.

        And do you not care about the drug use, Russian prostitutes, and underage girls on Hunter’s laptop? Or is that activity now just part of being a Democrat? You know like Bill Clinton, Epstein, Harvey Weinstein, etc etc.

      • fieldingclaymore February 22, 2023 / 4:56 pm

        Why did they delete my post? Anywhoo, Hunter is under federal investigation right. If he committed the crimes you speak of then he will be held accountable. I don’t care about drug use or prostitutes. If he did commit acts with underage girls I hope he is prosecuted.

      • Amazona February 22, 2023 / 5:45 pm

        If he did commit acts with underage girls I hope he is prosecuted. How about if he conspired with Ukrainian criminals to steal billions of dollars his daddy funneled into Ukraine as the Vice President of the United States? How about if his daddy then extorted the Ukrainian government to drop investigation of this massive theft? How about if daddy got ten percent of the take for his part in setting it up?

        How about investigating this same top American official using the power and status of his office to set up his son in sweetheart deals with the Chinese government—and then giving China preferential treatment regarding trade, Covid and military threats?

        You OK with that, too? Because you sure limited the scope of your concern to a very small area of sleazy activity shown on the laptop. I don’t think there was much about underage girls—except with his niece, of course, the underage daughter of his dead brother, whose wife he was humping.

    • fortyacresbeyond February 22, 2023 / 4:48 pm

      This would be the same Michael Flynn who pleaded guilty to lying, worked as a foreign agent while also an advisor to the Trump campaign, and pleaded the Fifth when asked he believed in the peaceful transfer of power in the United States. He hasn’t one iota of credibility.

      • Amazona February 22, 2023 / 4:54 pm

        And this is what you people do—-find ways to disparage the people so you can ignore the message.

        In his last year that he was the Vice President, did Biden visit Ukraine 12 or 13 times?
        Because that is what matters here.

      • fortyacresbeyond February 22, 2023 / 4:59 pm

        And all you provide us with is innuendo. Talk about finding ways to disparage people.

      • Amazona February 22, 2023 / 5:12 pm

        What “innuendo” do I post?

      • fieldingclaymore February 22, 2023 / 5:02 pm

        You mean Mike Flynn’s message to activate the military to confiscate voting machine because of vote fraud. The guy is nuts and or working the rubes for $. I follow him on twitter whoa boy.

      • Amazona February 22, 2023 / 5:27 pm

        During an appearance on Newsmax’s “Greg Kelly Reports,” Flynn was asked about the actions the president could take to undo the results of the election.

        After Flynn suggested that the president could seize every voting machine across the country, he then suggested deploying the military in swing states that the president lost to President-elect Joe Biden.

        “He could order, within the swing states if he wanted to, he could take military capabilities and basically rerun an election each in those states,” Flynn said.

        Flynn added that using the military is “not unprecedented,” saying that people talk about it “like it’s something that we’ve never done,” but he also said he was “not calling for that.”

        “Martial law has been instituted 64 times,” he said. “So I’m not calling for that. We have a constitutional process, and that has to be followed.”

        So, Flynn told the president his opinion that the president COULD, if he so chose, seize voting machines. That is not the same thing as “suggesting” that he do so. He even said he was not calling for that, and said “We have a constitutional process, and that has to be followed.”

        Every now and then I run into the tunnel vision of the Leftist zealot, and am reminded of how different it is from the mentality that goes through different scenarios, different possibilities, different approaches, talks them out, evaluates them and factors all this into a final decision. To the simple minded, merely speaking of an option, one of many, in the process of sorting out which are productive and which are not, is the same thing as advocating for it. Then you have a pseudo-journalist plug in an editorial “suggested” to imply that this was more than just one of many options tossed out there and you have a forty howling off into the woods after another invisible rabbit.

      • Amazona February 22, 2023 / 5:30 pm

        He didn’t HAVE a “message to activate the military to confiscate voting machine because of vote fraud.” He was a flag officer with an entire career based on training to evaluate every option of every problem and consider every solution.

        As opposed to sitting back waiting to be told what to think by CNN or the NYT.

      • Amazona February 22, 2023 / 5:34 pm

        There was, and still is, a belief that this nation underwent a constitutional crisis amounting to a bloodless coup, theft of the presidency through manipulation of the voting process.

        While those whose side benefited from this are quite happy with it, strenuously deny and defend it, and couldn’t care less about its effect on the nation, now or in the future, there are people who take this kind of thing seriously. And flag officers in the military are at the top of that list.

        When an attack appears to be taking place, serious honest men and women like this don’t sit back and wait to see how things settle out. They strive to identify the problem and possible solutions. And they have to do this with the information they have, even as it constantly changes. These people are trained to fight real wars, not petty Leftist pissing matches and slap fights.

        And lemmings like you attack them for it, ridicule them for it and disparage them for it. But then this kind of allegiance to this nation and its constitution is quite foreign to you people.

      • Amazona February 22, 2023 / 5:11 pm

        who pleaded guilty to lying,

        Was this in the context of a plea bargain? You know, the quasi-legal extortion game of “plead guilty to something, we’ll arrange a light penalty, or we’ll bankrupt you and drag you and your family though years of hell”?

        “worked as a foreign agent”—-what did he do?

        “pleaded the Fifth”—-which was his Constitutional right, and we are not to assign any negativity to it. What was the actual phrasing of the question?

        You seem to be quite the Michael Flynn expert, so you no doubt have all this at hand. Surely you didn’t just feel so threatened by what he said that you had to scurry to your computer to find something you could use to attack him as a person. Surely not. //sarc off

      • fieldingclaymore February 22, 2023 / 5:57 pm

        THERE WAS NO VOTER FRAUD!!!!! IT WAS A LIE SPUN BY TRUMP. THAT IS WHY CONFISCATING MACHINES IS NUTS. Just because you think something happened doesn’t mean it did.

      • Amazona February 22, 2023 / 8:20 pm

        I know, I know, this really upsets you. But take a breath, take a pill, and do try to calm down.

        I agree, the machine issue is dead in the water. But back in November/December 2020 it was not. We had all sorts of weird things going on with the machines—-wildly fluctuating vote tallies, flip-flopping vote tallies, machines shutting down, people saying they had seen machines linked to ethernet connections to outside sources, etc. The company heading off every effort to look into problems and having total control over the machines means by now it would be impossible to learn anything anyway. (But we’re not supposed to be suspicious of the defensiveness and refusal to cooperate.)

        At that time we had the Left putting fingers in their ears and chanting LALALALALALALA and we had rational people saying we needed to look into this. It appeared that the machine issues ranged from simple malfunctions to possible fraud and these kinds of things simply had to be looked at.

        Which was made harder by people shrieking NOTHING TO SEE HERE GO AWAY GO AWAY GO AWAY.

        The reports were not made by Trump.

        We have seen absolute incontrovertible proof of fraud totaling tens of thousands of illegal votes in the six states we have discussed. You can keep trying to move the goal posts by redefining “fraud” but facts are facts.

        So chill out. You guys won, and it’s ridiculous to insist that we think it was legit. Just take the “win” and figure out how you’re going to spin the incredible losses it represents.

      • Cluster February 22, 2023 / 6:33 pm

        There wasn’t voter fraud. There was ballot fraud. Big difference. And your President is a war mongering and corrupt fraud who took showers with his daughter. That’s on you.

        And yours, and every other Democrats willful ignorance re: Hunter’s influence peddling with corrupt foreign adversaries shows everyone just exactly the type of people you are. And again, that’s on you

      • fieldingclaymore February 22, 2023 / 6:43 pm

        Pulling the plug on bickering. Move on. //moderator

      • Cluster February 22, 2023 / 7:54 pm

        Universal mail in balloting, unaccounted for ballots, no signature verification, ballot harvesting, late submissions, etc., etc. yup I guess you’re correct when you say lol but then again, you’re the one who supports an old white male who showers with his daughter. That’s who you are. Own it.

      • Amazona February 22, 2023 / 8:32 pm

        Yeah, they keep moving the goal posts by redefining “fraud”. And notice how they try to keep the focus just on the votes. They don’t want to deal with the rigging so evident in the collusion between the State and the Agenda Media to control what information was allowed to be made public.

        Did you notice the failure to answer my question about the fruit of the poisonous tree? Because that is mainstream law—what you get illegally can’t be used. But they need all those illegitimate votes they got by illegal means. Once their allies in the counting process accepted illegal ballots and folded them into the whole, they were lost. There was no way to separate them so they were in the stream. The word “fungible” comes to mind. That’s why there was such a mad rush to get the envelopes opened and the ballots run through the machines.

        Remember Jovan Pulitzer, who invented the scanning process we use all the time now? He said if he had the original ballots that were presented as absentee ballots, though they appeared to have never been folded, he could tell almost immediately if they had been copied. Not only copied, but if they were copied by the same copier. The meta data would have been conclusive. Which is why no one was allowed to touch them. Copies, photos taken of them as they were counted, were repeatedly produced, with the Greek Chorus in the background howling “you’ve seen them, you’ve seen them” though of course no one ever did. Just as all the “recounts” were of the ballots that had been accepted, as if the count would be any different if the input never varied. But this “proof” satisfied the ignorant and the zealots.

      • Amazona February 22, 2023 / 8:35 pm

        Pulling the plug on bickering. Move on. //moderator

      • fortyacresbeyond February 22, 2023 / 8:36 pm

        Pulling the plug on bickering. Move on. //moderator

      • fortyacresbeyond February 22, 2023 / 8:41 pm

        Pulling the plug on bickering. Move on. //moderator

  12. Rm42 February 23, 2023 / 6:52 am

    If these places became independent city states that had to negotiate trade deals for resources they would promptly starve in the dark.

  13. Cluster February 23, 2023 / 9:03 am

    I too believe secession is the answer but it would only be temporary. Conservatives always build nice areas to live in only to eventually be invaded by liberals who then claim it was all built because of privilege … and then would proceed to destroy it.

    Question for Democrats – are you still afraid of a bunch of unarmed white conservatives??

    • Amazona February 23, 2023 / 9:23 am

      Secession is a hot mess. It is all about dividing, and then setting up alternate governments. What about borders? What about international diplomacy? For that matter, what about national identity? What about taxation?

      The founders knew we needed to create a unified nation so we would have a national identity and be able to deal with other nations on an equal footing.

      On the other hand, creating ten new states dilutes the political power of the Left by moving a lot of it out of the big cities, and some ways has the same effect as secession. For example, if Southern California were to be its own state, Los Angeles and San Diego would still be part of the United States but as an independent state be cut off from the revenues of the most productive agricultural land. Ditto for Portland, Seattle, Chicago, New York City. These Liberal bastions suck the blood out of the conservative areas of their states and provide nothing in return but foisting Leftist governance on us all.

      We wouldn’t have the Constitutional crisis that secession would create, we would be expanding actual representation of the citizens, and we would be reducing the control of the major urban areas.

      • Cluster February 23, 2023 / 9:39 am

        Aren’t we already in a hot mess? With any luck, Democrats will have us in two wars here pretty soon … because all they know how to do is destroy. There are only two ways to deal with people like this – eliminate them, or get away from them. Either one is messy, but necessary.

      • Amazona February 23, 2023 / 11:02 am

        You said you think secession is necessary, but only temporarily. I think expanding the number of states accomplishes much the same thing, would be permanent, and not require things like figuring out identities. Seriously—read Kurt Schlichter’s books on a divided America to get an idea of some of the problems involved.

        There is another way to deal with people like this—outsmart them. Look at the map of counties and how they voted in 2020 and at the states which gave their electoral votes to Biden solely on the basis of the big cities. Every new state I mentioned would be made up of mostly red counties. You don’t think adding nine new red states would make a difference? You don’t think splitting up the 55 electoral votes in California would make a difference? Look at the electoral map of California and imagine one new state starting just north of San Francisco and one just north of Los Angeles going up to San Francisco.

        Still the United States of America. Still the same Constitution. Still the same Supreme Court. Still the capital in Washington DC. Just with 60 states instead of 50, 120 Senators instead of 100, and reapportionment of House members.

      • Cluster February 23, 2023 / 12:03 pm

        My comments are mostly tongue in cheek on this issue … I just never see it happening.

      • Amazona February 23, 2023 / 12:38 pm

        I’m not tongue in cheek. I’m serious. I think we need to get a grip on a couple of things, and the sooner the better. The most important is the death grip urban centers of Liberal voting (I can’t call it Liberal “thought” because I don’t think thought plays much of a role in the whole thing) on the entire country. Millions of people are disenfranchised because the cities in their states control their electoral votes. And now the Left wants to increase that power by eliminating the Electoral College altogether.

        We also know that heavily populated areas are easier for voter fraud to take place.

        So how can we restore balance to the country, to give equal authority to everyone? And how can we increase actual representation?

    • fortyacresbeyond February 23, 2023 / 3:05 pm

      “Secession is a hot mess. It is all about dividing, and then setting up alternate governments. What about borders? What about international diplomacy? For that matter, what about national identity? What about taxation?”

      I agree with Amazona.

      We fought a bloody war to prevent states from seceding, whereas there is a well-defined constitutional process for adding new states, and this mechanism has also been previously used to divide one state into multiple states (e.g., to create West Virginia).

      I do think that Amazona’s proposed state subdivision illustrates the arbitrariness of state boundaries when it comes to electing the president of the United States. As we know, most states are winner-take-all when it comes to electoral votes. Thus, over six million votes for Donald Trump in California in 2020 became electoral votes for Joe Biden, and conversely over five million votes for Joe Biden because electoral votes for Donald Trump.

      Amazona’s proposal is by her admission an attempt to recover some of those votes, but only ones that would be to the advantage of the Republican party. Even if her proposal were enacted, there would still be pockets of disenfranchised votes w.r.t. the Electoral College in every state. Then what? Subdivide states even more?

      There is only one president of the United States representing all citizens of the country. It stands to reason that every citizen should have an equal say in who that president is and not have their votes effectively nullified just because they happen to live in a state with more votes for the opposing candidate. I would be interested in Amazona’s take on this.

      I would also add that the issues with respect to Puerto Rico and Washington, D.C., statehood are different from the issues of creating additional states out of existing ones because the citizens of Puerto Rico and Washington, D.C., do not currently enjoy the same representation as citizens of states. (That said, there is also a partisan angle to this because it is likely these would become “blue” states if it came to pass.)

      • Amazona February 23, 2023 / 4:38 pm

        Amazona’s proposal is by her admission an attempt to recover some of those votes, but only ones that would be to the advantage of the Republican party. You guys sure like the emotional edge the word
        admission” gives when you want to imply something, don’t you? People don’t just make declaratory statements—they ADMIT things. Ooooh! An ADMISSION!

        Your spin, of course. But any effort to level the playing field and give more control to less-populated areas is going to have that effect, because that’s just the way the population is distributed. Look at an electoral map. The choice is to remain controlled by a city population or create a new state which will have a different political balance. And it’s really more of a matter of how well a city like Chicago represents the rural areas, when it has such an overpowering population advantage.

        Does Los Angeles adequately represent the agricultural element of California? Do the coastal cities of Portland and Seattle accurately represent the land east of the mountains?

        The simple fact is, any breakup of current state boundaries to add new states is going to result in adding states whose populations are probably not in line with the political tone of the cities. The Left thinks it’s great that the cities like NYC, Chicago, etc. have enough votes to give the electoral college to its candidates, and the political power of those cities means they don’t have to pay much attention to the outlying areas.

        Eastern Colorado is mostly agricultural or petroleum-industry based. But the Leftist control of the statehouse means that the week after this slate of Democrats took over they passed an anti-petroleum bill as well as other Leftist wish list bills regarding things like education. These values and belief systems are pretty much restricted to the Denver-Boulder corridor, yet they control the whole state. In Colorado the Dems in Denver and Boulder flex their muscles unapologetically, knowing that there will never be enough Republican votes to oust them, as the cities grow and the rural areas wither on the vine. Dividing the state and melding the split-off eastern part with western Kansas and western Nebraska achieves the primary purpose of giving these people a voice in their own government—not the token voice of overwhelmingly outvoted people, but a real voice, on a leveled playing field.

        In any election the side with the most votes will win. I wouldn’t call that “nullifying” the votes of the losing side, but whatever. The point is to even out representation of all voters.

        The District of Columbia was created by the Constitution, and to change that would require a Constitutional amendment. Puerto Rico is a territory and can stop being so any time they want. They choose to retain the benefits of being a US territory. It’s understood that if given statehood both would probably happily vote for more benefits and more entitlements but that’s not the only issue. One is how or why the United States would benefit by having Puerto Rico as a state—-not contiguous and with a different language and culture and a poor economy which would continue to be a drain on that of the U.S.—– and one is the simple fact that that trying to make DC a state would involve a Constitutional amendment process.

        In other words, the sole agenda for adding Puerto Rico and D.C. is to add four more Democrat Senators, while the goal of adding a total of ten states is to increase representation of citizens whose state politics are controlled in a handful of cities.

      • fortyacresbeyond February 23, 2023 / 6:23 pm

        Thanks for responding.

        “You guys sure like the emotional edge the word ‘admission’ gives when you want to imply something, don’t you?”

        I thought I was being polite. But as far as spin goes, you did say “creating ten new states dilutes the political power of the Left.” It doesn’t require spin to understand your intent. Furthermore, the only states you propose subdividing are ones in which you think the result benefit conservatives. What about Texas, for example? Or Florida?

        “Does Los Angeles adequately represent the agricultural element of California?”

        Probably not. Does the agricultural element of California adequately represent Los Angeles? Probably not. But where do you stop? Do you realize the that eight of California’s top ten agricultural counties of California voted for Biden?

        “The Left thinks it’s great that the cities like NYC, Chicago, etc. have enough votes to give the electoral college to its candidates, and the political power of those cities means they don’t have to pay much attention to the outlying areas.”

        I don’t hear you complaining that voters in the rural parts of Texas give the electoral college to its candidates. It’s the same issue, only the circumstances in Texas currently benefit Republicans.

        “In any election the side with the most votes will win. I wouldn’t call that ‘nullifying’ the votes of the losing side, but whatever. The point is to even out representation of all voters.”

        Well, that’s not true when it comes to the presidential election, which is the context in which I made that comment. Donald Trump won in 2016 and he didn’t have the most votes. The same with George Bush in 2000. The way to “even out representation of all voters,” as you put it, at least as it pertains to the presidential election, is to eliminate the Electoral College so that every citizen in the United States has his or her voted counted for president regardless of whether there are more Democrats or Republicans in that state, don’t you agree?

        As for D.C. and Puerto Rico, the fact is that those citizens don’t have representation in Congress. That alone differentiates the issues of statehood for D.C. and Puerto Rico from creating states out of existing states. That was my point.

      • Amazona February 23, 2023 / 6:47 pm

        What about Texas, for example? Or Florida?

        If you want to go to war with Texas, go for it. I’d spend some time there first. It’s the only state I’ve ever been where it is common to see a woman wearing a Texas map T shirt, Texas-shaped earrings, a watch showing an airplane (second hand) flying over a map of Texas, driving a car with a bumper sticker saying “Don’t Mess With Texas” and shoes with a Texas star embroidered on the toe. I’ve spent a lot of time there, I know they already fought one war to remain a state, and as far as states go Texas is our honey badger.

        And I haven’t seen a good reason to split Florida except possibly geographic, because of its shape, and I wouldn’t want to create a state you can’t get to without passing through another state. Its large and small cities and counties seem pretty well balanced.

        Do you realize the that eight of California’s top ten agricultural counties of California voted for Biden? Then there should be no political objection to making them their own state. What major cities are in those counties? Do you believe the outcome would have been the same without those cities? What if the cities swamped the agricultural vote? I’m talking about leveling representation, which might or might not result in creating a lot of blue states.

        I could not disagree more with the argument for getting rid of the Electoral College. It is the only thing that lets smaller states have a say in who is elected president, and it is the only balance we have against mob rule. Going with the popular vote would mean that millions of people would be disenfranchised because the massive power of a couple of huge cities would overwhelm the popular vote and the smaller states wouldn’t have any input at all.

        I don’t know if the Left doesn’t understand the Electoral College, or understands it well enough to know it is a stumbling block to total power, but in any case every argument against it is feeble and I will continue to argue against it. I’m not going to get into that argument again because we have gone over it so many times already. Suffice it to say that the claim that getting rid of the EC and going with the popular vote would have the opposite effect of the claims made by those who find it an impediment to power.

        Your “point” about statehood for DC completely ignores the fact that DC was created, by the Founders, in the Constitution, specifically to have a seat of government with no political affiliation. People who move to a place where they know they won’t be able to vote in a presidential election shouldn’t complain because they can’t vote in a presidential election. That’s like moving next to an airport and complaining about the noise. And if Puerto Rico thinks its’s getting a raw deal they can leave. You did not address the questions I asked—-what is in it for the United States to create a state which is not contiguous with the rest of the country, has a different culture, has a different language and has such a poor economy it is and probably always will be a financial drain? Yes, it would be great for Puerto Rico. But what’s the benefit to the existing United States? We can’t go around picking up decrepit and bankrupt island countries and making them states.

      • Amazona February 23, 2023 / 6:49 pm

        It doesn’t require spin to understand your intent.

        No, just a crystal ball. Noting the effect of something is not the same thing as being motivated by it. The Left really depends on informing us what people "really think".

      • casper3031 February 23, 2023 / 8:57 pm

        Eliminating the Electoral College wouldn’t dis enfranchise anyone. Everyone’s vote would count exactly the same. Under the current system a voter from Wyoming’s vote is worth 3 and a half times that of a voter from California. A voter from Hawaii’s vote is with more than twice that of one from Texas. Neither is fair for the voters of any of those states. States don’t vote. People do and any system that plays favorites based on population is inherently unfair to voters from larger states.

      • Amazona February 23, 2023 / 9:31 pm

        The lack of understanding of the Electoral College seems to be concentrated in the Left, which makes me wonder if it is really lack of comprehension or just advocating for a system that gives preference to large cities. Your math is strange.

      • casper3031 February 23, 2023 / 9:50 pm

        The electoral College was put in place to give rural voters a bigger say in choosing a president than urban voters. Wyoming with a half a million voters gets three votes in the electoral college, or one for every 170,000 residents. California with nearly 40 million voters gets 55 votes in the electoral college, or about one for every 700,000 residents.

      • fortyacresbeyond February 23, 2023 / 11:02 pm

        Thanks for your reply, Amazona.

        “If you want to go to war with Texas, go for it.”

        I’m not advocating for creating new states of out of existing ones. However, I do completely agree with out that doing so is more feasible than states seceding. If and when Texas becomes reliably blue in presidential elections (it’s not that far off and demographic trends suggest that it will happen), then I look forward to conservatives remaining consistent in their view of the Electoral College.

        You write, the Electoral College “is the only thing that lets smaller states have a say in who is elected president, and it is the only balance we have against mob rule.” I disagree. A popular vote would allow all citizens, regardless of their state of residence, to have an equal say in electing the president. You seem to equate “mob rule” with a popular vote in which the winner is the person with the most votes—that is, how our representatives and senators and governors are selected.

        “I don’t know if the Left doesn’t understand the Electoral College…” I don’t know if they do either. I am giving you my views, not those of the so-called Left.

        Casper is correct that a Wyoming voter has a larger influence in electing the president than a California voter. This is because the number of each state’s electors is based on its number of representatives and senators. Thus, Wyoming’s two senator-based electors were distributed across 276,765 voters in the 2020 president election, whereas California’s two senator-based electors were distributed across 17,501,380 electors. It is indeed a function of math, as Casper said, and the difference is obvious.

        Anyway, thanks for the discussion.

      • Amazona February 24, 2023 / 11:32 am

        I’m sure the Electoral College will come up again as we approach the next election, and I’m sure we’ll devote an entire thread to it again, and I’m sure the same explanations will be made and arguments for it put forth, and I’m sure the same people will have the same objections based on rejection of its merits. Till then, I’m tired of trying to explain it to people who either can’t or won’t grasp its necessity to fair elections in this country. Based on the last post, there might even be objections to the fact that every state has two Senators, no matter what the population.

  14. Cluster February 23, 2023 / 9:09 am

    Little gay boys really can’t pull off the hard hat construction look … just saying.

  15. Cluster February 23, 2023 / 9:44 am

    Did everyone see this little girl yesterday?

    The Georgia grand jury forewoman who laughed about bringing down the former president has a wacky Pinterest page with collections of pinned magic spells and all things witchy.

    How in the f**k did this little ignorant bitch get on a grand jury??? She looks like she’s ten years old and acts like it too … but sadly enough this is what passes now as credible amongst Democrats. They are truly lost souls.

    • Amazona February 23, 2023 / 11:07 am

      Not just ON the jury, but elected forewoman of the jury. By the jury, one assumes, which I contend casts doubt on the intelligence and integrity of the entire jury. But there is a bright side to this. The entire grand jury proceedings are now in limbo, the chances of them ever being able to indict Trump for anything are fading, and then there is this:

      • Cluster February 23, 2023 / 12:06 pm

        Great parody lol, and yes, who in the holy hell is actually on that grand jury? It’s the same thing I thought of with Sam Bankman-Fried. How in the world could any sober individual spend 5 minutes with him and want to give him millions??? Who are these people??

      • Amazona February 23, 2023 / 12:40 pm

        I was thinking “THIS is acceptable in Georgia? I had no idea they were so backward and ignorant.” I couldn’t imagine this girlchild being put in charge of a Girl Scout cookie table at the supermarket, much less leading a Grand Jury in a hearing about a former president.

        They aren’t even trying to make it look legitimate any more.

    • Amazona February 23, 2023 / 12:47 pm

      No wonder Chuck U Schumer is so panicky. I’ll bet the J6 Committee members are hiding under their beds, as we get to see what they hid as they picked through the videos looking for stuff they could use against Trump and Trump supporters.

  16. jdge1 February 23, 2023 / 3:59 pm

    However, as RNC chairwoman Ronna McDaniel pointed out on Tuesday, the Biden administration’s response to the derailment and chemical spill has not been what it could be.

    Um, you think? How about, atrocious negligence! Biden & his administration’s response to most everything, “has not been what it could be”. But the way McDaniel addresses it, it isn’t really even an admonishment, more like a parent telling a child to stop doing something annoying. The RNC really dropped the ball on putting this woman back in the position that needs strong direction, yet she seems unable to do so on many levels.

    • Cluster February 24, 2023 / 8:40 am

      I agree. What a milquetoast response. With her in charge, the GOP will continue to lose.

  17. jdge1 February 24, 2023 / 2:57 am

    Arizona teacher tells lawmakers that parents are unqualified to oppose LGBT propaganda in classrooms

    Ranting against a proposal to allow parents more oversight in children’s education, teacher Alicia Messing said ‘the purpose of public education is not to teach only what parents want their children to be taught, it is to teach them what society needs them to be taught.’

    Wow. Curious, what are the qualifications to oppose any propaganda, much LBGT? How would you know what parents are qualified to do or not do? Are parents qualified to dictate what moral upbringing their children receive and by extension what immoral exposure they should be shielded from? Just who is it that dictates “what society needs them to be taught”? I’m guessing by the above statement; only leftist ideologies qualify as society’s greatest educational needs. In other words, follow the communist path. I think I’ll pass. If I had young children, I would give very strong consideration to home schooling.

    • Amazona February 24, 2023 / 11:44 am

      It’s the arrogance of the Left, which always assumes it has the right to control the lives of others because they are just so much smarter and morally superior. I know people who are doing home schooling because they refuse to expose their children to the indoctrination of the Left.

      In Colorado a few years ago a group of home schoolers wanted their kids to be able to have a prom, so allowed them to design and plan one. On Prom Night, a night where public school kids spend thousands to rent limos and hotel rooms and engage in heavy drinking, which is anticipated as the night whatever virgins are left lose their virginity, the home schoolers decided to put on a Civil War-era formal ball. They spent months researching the culture and fashions of the era, learned the dances of the time, and made elaborate costumes. It was a deep dive into history, culture and art, and they did it on their own. The girls made ball gowns, the boys made uniforms or dressed like businessmen of the era, and photos of the event were stunning.

      • jdge1 February 24, 2023 / 8:32 pm

        Unlike many other states, NY does not allow home schoolers to participate in after school activities that take place within the school. In states like PA, home schoolers can (or at least use to) still participate in after school sports, clubs, debate teams, music programs, as well as other activities. Given that ALL money that goes into public schools comes from taxpayers, home schooled children should have equal opportunity and access to these activities as well as other public resources. Also, students should be provided financial allocations that would normally have gone to the public school, to attend private or charter schools should they choose to. That some states restrict this money to private religious schools, is an unconstitutional bias that must be reversed. Because public schools don’t really experience much competition, there is little incentive to weed out problems, curtail socialist indoctrination, or use money smarter. This needs to change. This change will only happen when leftists are removed from office and decision-making positions.

        When home schooling started to become a thing, certain people tried to place stigmatisms on that choice such as, lack of social skills. These days home schooling has pushed into opportunities not typically found in public schools. The prom idea Amazona mentioned is a good example. That has come about in part due to the collaborative efforts of home school families banding together, something that many state entities have worked against. These entities want home schoolers to feel like an isolated island, to falter under unnecessary pressures.

        New organizations a starting to spring up that not only provide excellent k-12 educations, but are also starting to make inroads into accredited college programs. The beauty of these new programs are; 1.) Kids can finish school requirements much faster and therefore graduate earlier, 2.) These programs can be geared toward rewarding career choices that are devoid of leftist indoctrination, and 3.) These programs typically cost a fraction of their counterpart.

        Teachers who make comments like; “Our children need…”, as though these teachers, school administrators and government entities have ownership over the kids, need to be stripped of all authority to do anything related to kids.

      • Amazona February 24, 2023 / 10:08 pm

        The whole school voucher thing is about assigning the dollars per student allocated to public schools and letting parents apply that money to private schools. It is fought ferociously by the Left because it would dilute the control they have over the minds of our young people.

        There have been suggestions that this money could also be applied to home schooling, and though I think it’s basically a good idea I can also see how it might pose some problems.

        Overall, home schooled kids are doing much better scholastically than public school students, getting much better grades on standardized tests and doing better in college classes. Home school parents try to include socialization, including sports, and in some places interacting with public school activities.

        One of the attacks mounted for a while was the claim that home schooling is just to provide a cover for child abuse and incest, but that wore out after a while because it was so vile even for the Left and they couldn’t get any traction on it. I think we did have a couple of Lefty trolls pushing that calumny here for a while, back then.

  18. jdge1 February 24, 2023 / 3:16 am

    Idaho bill would ban mRNA technology used in COVID shots

    This is a good start, except this part: Violators of the law could be charged with a misdemeanor. This should be a felony crime with severe punishment due to the considerable potential for injury or death. Regardless, if individual states ban the technology, then it will be difficult for the federal government to stick their fingers where they don’t belong. I’m curious how such a law would be enforced with companies that do business across state lines, such as the airline industry?

  19. Cluster February 24, 2023 / 8:41 am

    Can you believe Janet Yellin is in charge of anything??

    • Retired Spook February 24, 2023 / 8:55 am

      She sort of reminds me of Yoda’s wife.

    • Retired Spook February 24, 2023 / 8:59 am

      Doesn’t mean we can live life to the fullest and oppose anyone who attempts to regulate our lives in a harmful way.

      • Cluster February 24, 2023 / 9:22 am

        Let me know when the shooting starts …

        Yesterday the pedophile said that he is with Ukraine “for as long as it takes” …

        I’ll bet the kids in Chicago, Baltimore, St. Louis, Los Angeles, etc., could benefit from an effort like that. To bad they are not a priority to Democrats

      • Cluster February 24, 2023 / 9:27 am

        Considering how Democrats love their wars, I wonder if they would like to have one with us?? I’m all for it.

  20. Cluster February 24, 2023 / 9:29 am

    Well what do you know, finally a sane response … this will probably upset Americas Ruling Class

    China calls for the END of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine: Beijing pleads for a cease-fire and releases 12-point plan to solve conflict on anniversary of Putin’s war

    • Cluster February 24, 2023 / 2:30 pm

      So when are you going to Ukraine to fight for the ungrateful white nationalists? This is your war chief. You voted for this, so go fight it you coward. The most cowardly people in the world are people like you – advocating war from the confines of your moms basement.

    • Cluster February 24, 2023 / 2:58 pm

      And you think Zelensky is a defender of freedom hahahahahahahahaha. Why do you like death so much? Wars, abortion, drugs, vaccines …. everything you stand for results in misery and death. But that’s who you are. Worst type of person in the world.

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