One of the principles of global affairs that is universally accepted is the right of peoples to self determination. That is, as far as possible, every identifiable nationality should be able to determine its own fate by its own means of arriving at national consensus. For the most part, this is the correct way to go because human beings have a right to their community and their community may express itself. Certainly, as we sit here in our United States, we do not wish to have any alien power dictate to us how we shall conduct our affairs. Any such effort would be considered by us to be an act of war and we would almost certainly fight against it. But even with that, I think that the expressed principle of self determination is incorrect.
To take a step back out of any modern controversy, back from the late 19th century until World War One, the Serbs were considered to be rather pests in the European body politic. They were primitive, nearly barbarous and were given to insane outbreaks of violence. Part of this, of course, was because they had for centuries been under Turkish rule and that rule was not conducive to the development of civilized behavior…but, still, the Serbs had agency and once they gained full independence from the Turks, they did a lot of really lousy things and well earned a reputation in Europe for being a problem to be dealt with. One of the more hideous things was the murder of King Alexander and his wife Draga during a coup; not just murdered, but mutilated. One of the major conspirators in that effort had a hand years later in setting up the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand which led to WWI. Nutshell: not nice people. But once World War One got rolling, Anglo-French propaganda turned these barbarians into the “plucky little Serbs” fighting the mean, old Austrians. Truth be told, the Serbs deserved all they got and more.
Given all that they had done, were the Serbs really people you want self-determining? If it was just that they were being lousy to each other, that wouldn’t be so bad, but they also touched off a world war. It is when you review the full story of the run up to WWI that you understand why the Great Powers of Europe tried to sustain Turkish rule over Serbia…the Turks were holding down people who very often needed a beating. So, there’s our fly in the ointment: we want people to rule themselves, but what do we do if they rule themselves so badly that it causes catastrophe?
Now lets jump over to today: we’re told that the Palestinians deserve their own State, totally free and independent. Leave aside that the Palestinian leadership says they want all of Israel and the massacre of all Jews. Lets just go with the concept that in Gaza and the West Bank the principle of self determination dictates an eventual fully independent State. It isn’t just Islamists saying this – it is some of the most reasonable, intelligent and educated people in the West. It is taken as a given that our end must be Palestinians governing themselves. And to be sure, in theory I think that all of us would want that – given that we want the same for ourselves.
But here’s the problem: Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. Sure, the Islamists called it an “open air prison” with the Israeli border controls but that is just nonsense; and if it was a prison, it was enforced not just by Israel, but by Egypt, which has controls at least as strict as Israel’s (and probably more). However you want to slice it and no matter what complaints you wish to make about it, Gaza was free of Israeli occupation. The people of Gaza could choose their course. They were also the recipient of untold billions of dollars in aid from all around the world. They had the freedom and the money to choose.
They choose to build rockets and rape/murder squads.
Self determination suddenly looks a lot less cool, if you ask me.
How in heck is Israel supposed to live next to that? And a fully independent Gaza and West Bank just means even less ability for Israel to check those forces in favor of rockets and rape. The Israeli city of Sderot is 2,800 feet from Gaza. Do you want people who build rockets and rape/murder squads 2,800 feet from you? From your daughter? It is not something that any rational person can agree to – especially after 10/7. Maybe in the days when it was just a few rockets that Iron Dome could mostly stop and the every now and again stabbing attack…but when its 1,200 dead Jews including women who were raped to death, that makes it impossible to lived next to the people who did that. People who do that have to be watched; controlled; ruled.
Perhaps some day in the future the Palestinians can regain self government, but it would take at least a couple generations of instruction – basically un-teaching them hatred of the Jews. Until then, I can’t see any reason other than stupidity for wanting a Palestinian State. We can’t let adherence to a theory blind us to reality. However it happened, and whoever was at fault, the Palestinians have become essentially a national Einsatzgruppe bent on the murder of Jews. Until that is changed, they can’t decide for themselves.
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After years of lobbing random misses into Israel, repeatedly calling for the extermination of Jews, and choosing to spend humanitarian money on bombs and bullets, I’m surprised Gaza is still even a thing. In my world, they would not exist. Nor would their leadership who reportedly reside in Kuwait and/or the UAE. I would go kill them too. But here’s the thing … America is under the exact same threat. We have no idea who is in this country. We have Chinese spies, Middle East terrorists, Central American gangs, and international human and narco traffickers, and yet we concern ourselves with the plight of violent islamists??? I’ve never known this country to be so fucked up.
Well, when you put it like that……. No, seriously, I think I said a while back that what you describe is going to lead to a massive geographic re-alignment of people who value peace, calm, and freedom. There ARE areas of the country where what you describe doesn’t exist or has minimal presence that is largely controlled by law enforcement. Where I live in rural northeast Indiana is a good example, but there are many other places. Eventually the locations where what you describe is the rule rather than the exception, largely big cities almost exclusively run for decades by Democrats, are just going to implode under the weight of their own incompetence, corruption and “tolerance.”
Why do you suppose we never see white people migrating to, and invading black and brown countries?
Migrating to a shithole is not high on my list of priorities. I don’t mind, and I think the vast majority of Conservatives don’t mind if people want to escape poverty and violence and come here for a better life, but we’ve set up legal mechanisms to do that, and up until a few years ago the majority of immigrants who came here used those mechanisms. I’m all for making it easier to come here legally, but more people have come here illegally during Joe Biden’s watch than came here legally through Ellis Island in all the years it was open.
I no longer believe it’s Americas role to be the refuge of the poor, or oppressed. That’s a quint notion that is past its time. It no longer serves anyone’s interest in compromising our children’s future to accommodate those from other countries. I no longer see the difference of a child raised in Rwanda versus those children raised in Baltimore or Chicago. They’re equally impoverished and marginalized and I would much prefer to help the kids in Baltimore, than I do the kids in Rwanda. Additionally, how do you suppose those other countries have any opportunity of surviving when a good chunk of their population has fled? Have we even thought of that? How does it serve Latin America well when we constantly encourage their citizens to migrate to America? It’s absurd.
A few years ago when I had several young people working for me one young man in particular was constantly complaining about the United States and talking about how much he hates this country. One day I’d had enough and I said “If you hate it here, why don’t you leave?” And his smart-ass remarkable comment was “I would if I could”. So I said I would pay for his ticket to go move somewhere else.
His mouth dropped open, his eyes lit up and he said “Really? You would do that?” And I said “Sure. You hate it here, you’re miserable here and all your complaining is making everybody else miserable. So go live somewhere where you can be happy. I’ll buy the ticket.”
Then I asked where he would go where, he would like to live. He thought about it for a minute and then he said “India”. Well, I was too polite to comment on this stupidity of that comment. So I said “Great. Go for it.”
I said “Here’s all you have to do. You have to provide me with documented proof that you have renounced your American citizenship and give up your American passport to go live in India. Once you’ve done that I will pay all of your transportation costs for you to relocate.” And I thought he was going to cry. His lip started to quiver and he started to blubber. And he said well he didn’t want to do that. At which point I said fine, then STFU, and walked away.
Even the most Ardent America haters when they stop to think about it even for just a minute realize it’s the best place in the world to live.
Any American going abroad is going to be astonished at the poverty. Even in comparably rich countries, it is still pretty bad. I remember in 1986 I went ashore in Saudi Arabia (great liberty port, Navy: no booze and all women in bedsheets!) and I saw the glittering palaces of the oil-rich…and the mud huts of their servants (practically slaves, almost all of them east Asians). A few Third World places have got their act together and joined the first world, but most haven’t. And even in most of Europe you’ll see be surprised to find things like large houses with only one bathroom.
That’s the thing, isn’t it?
Of course, our Lefties say that the black and brown countries are f’d up because of the “legacy of colonialism”. Dig it; but Zambia became independent in 1964. After 60 years you’d think they’d get their act together and use the massive natural resources of the country to do better than $1,435.00 annual per-captia income. I mean, I realize that Singapore became independent five years prior and so had a little head start, but that doesn’t explain why Singapore has a $91,100.00 annual per capital income. You know: fabulously well off.
Both colonies.
Both set up for serving the colonial overlord rather than the needs of the locals.
Both started with really nothing.
One now have nearly everything. The other has nearly nothing.
It is all in a matter of choices – and it is the choices the people make.
But, sure, let’s let a mass of these people who didn’t help their own countries in.
One of the funnier statements by a reporter that I’ve heard lately:
We still get polls saying that more than 40% of Democrats support Biden or think he’s doing a good job. I still think most of that is based on one Criterion.— HE’S NOT TRUMP.