A Fight to the Debt

I’ve just got to put a “wow” in here – never thought it would come out quite like this.

Here we are at the (fake) 11th hour and the whole thing is turning on just how much conservatism/libertarianism the TEA Party can squeeze in to the Boehner plan before he presents it to the House.  Oh, that is not what the MSM narrative is?  Also not what RINOs are saying?  You mean it isn’t what well paid, insider pundits (right and left) are saying?  Of course its not – because all of these simply don’t understand the nature of a  revolutionary political epoch.   That is what this is, good people…and remember that it is a truism of revolutionary movements that they usually appear a second away from defeat right before their overwhelming triumph.

Some version of the Boehner plan will pass the House – later today or tomorrow.  This is because something has to pass…and if Reid and his Democrats then carry out their threat and vote it down, then it puts the ball squarely in their corner.  If Reid kills it a couple days before the Democrats’ manufactured deadline, then it will be up to them to come up with an alternative which can pass the House.  (UPDATE:  I caught of bit of Reid on the Senate floor…”come on, Republicans, come in to my office and tell what parts of my bill you’ll sign on to, then I’ll bring it to a vote”…he is very much afraid of having a vote on a revised Boehner plan) And the House GOP is right now indicating just how conservative/libertarian the final result had better be, or it won’t be the final result.

Some say they are worried – worried that this horrific, inhuman and un-American standing on constitutional principals will weaken the GOP in 2012 and hand victory to Obama.  As far as absurd political prognostication goes, I’ve never heard anything worse.  For goodness sake, has anyone been paying attention to Obama’s “Strongly Disapprove” number?

43% “strongly disapprove” of how he’s doing his job.  This is not a man who is carefully threading his way through political crisis and making his opponents look bad.  The TEA Party cannot hand Obama the White House in 2012…every time the TEA Party acts up, Obama’s favorability craters.  The only thing which can save Obama now – other than a miraculous turn-around in the economy – is a GOP cave-in on spending.  If that happens, the TEA Party goes home or votes Third Party. As long as the GOP doesn’t cave, the TEA Party remains with it.  If the Boehner plan is not good enough for the TEA Party, it means Boehner had better make it so – it most emphatically does not mean make it least acceptable.

As I said yesterday, I think we should just pass the Boehner bill – it is good enough for me.  Clearly, though, a strong part of the GOP is not pleased with it.  So, make ’em pleased.  Remember what they are ultimately after – cuts significant enough to stave off national bankruptcy.  It isn’t TEA Party firmness which is threatening us with default, but Democrat profligacy and RINO wobbliness…it isn’t less spending which will push us over the edge, but more spending.  The TEA Party is 100% right, even if a little unrealistic about what can be accomplished while Obama is in the White House and Reid runs the Senate.

So, let’s have this fight – keep going; shout it out, TEA Partiers.  Don’t let the SOBs grind you down.  Get more conservatism/libertarianism in that bill…whatever amount it takes to get Boehner to 217 votes.  And then just watch our liberals fall apart as they are starkly forced to either pass the TEA Party-supported bill, or fail to avert the “default” they say is coming next Tuesday.

UPDATE:  Iowahawk has some Twittable thoughts on what will happen if we don’t raise the debt ceiling:

Beltway policy experts begin living by own wits; after 45 minutes there are no survivors…

…Breadlines teeming with jobless Outreach Coordinators, Diversity Liaisons, and Sustainability Facilitators…

…Without college loan program, America loses an entire generation of Marxist Dance Theorists…

38 thoughts on “A Fight to the Debt

  1. Cluster July 29, 2011 / 8:28 am

    Interesting to note is the fact that all of this hysteria from the left is over conservatives desire to put America on sound financial footing. Even the CC&B bill, which is probably the best plan out there, increases spending next year. So voters need to know that liberals think that balancing the budget and living within our means is radical and dangerous.

    It’s also important to remember that Obama, Reid and many other democrats took this very same position back in 2007, and they were right.

  2. Green Mountain Boy July 29, 2011 / 9:07 am

    #rd Party???? Hell no, the Grand old Party was born in the ashes of the Whigs and a Truly Conservative Party can be born in thier ashes.

    • Retired Spook July 29, 2011 / 9:59 am

      GMB,

      I think that’s the view held by most of the Tea Party people I know. There is a tiny, miniscule portion that looks at a 3rd party as a viable option.

      The way I see it, there are 3 options: this is fought out in the legislative chambers, it’s fought out at the ballot box, or it’s fought out on some other battlefield. There are a substantial number of Americans that are not going to allow the Democrat Party or RINO Republicans to take this country any further to the left — period.

      I would ask our resident Libs this question: if the pendulum swings the other way, and you see everything you’ve stood for and fought for over the last several decades begin to be reversed; and you find yourself in the electoral minority, what do you do? How far are you willing to go to fight for what you believe?

      • Thomas July 29, 2011 / 1:04 pm

        Spook,

        it is demographically impossible for Democrats to be in the minority. If anything, the GOP will be in a perpetual state of minority status in about a decade.

        As more minorities become citizens and become old enough to vote, the dems will gain power in both congress and state governments.

        Sure, there will be exceptions where minorities run as Republican, but those are few and far in between.

        The NEW generation of people, i’d say born after 1990 are what will carry the democrats to power for a long time.

        I am thinking something along the lines of the 40 plus years dems had power this last century.

        The GOP base of baby boomers will last them another 10-15 years before they are minorities.

        can you say: Melting pot?

      • Retired Spook July 29, 2011 / 1:15 pm

        Spook, it is demographically impossible for Democrats to be in the minority. If anything, the GOP will be in a perpetual state of minority status in about a decade.

        Well, I guess that’s one way to answer the question — just deny that it’s even a possibility. That’s OK; I didn’t really expect an honest answer.

        As more minorities become citizens and become old enough to vote, the dems will gain power in both congress and state governments.

        And just exactly what is it about the Democrat Party that you think will make minorities continue to vote for it?

      • MontyBurns July 29, 2011 / 1:30 pm

        “it is demographically impossible for Democrats to be in the minority. If anything, the GOP will be in a perpetual state of minority status in about a decade. ”

        No way. Any talk of permanent majority or minority status for a party is pure folly. The pendulum always swings to the other side sooner or later.

      • Thomas July 29, 2011 / 1:32 pm

        And just exactly what is it about the Democrat Party that you think will make minorities continue to vote for it?

        let’s put it this way. How many minorities have voted Republican over the past lets say 20 years? Instead of asking me why the dems will get most of the minorities…You should be asking why the GOP does NOT get minorities if your party is such a big open tent which includes people of all backgrounds.

        If you can’t see that your party is the party of the middle aged white man and woman and the upper middle class and wealthy in this country, then you’re drunk, ignorant, or both.

      • Sunny July 29, 2011 / 1:46 pm

        Interesting question Spook. The only problem with your question is that what you are fighting for is not within the norm of what was the Republican Party. The founders of the Republican Party would not recognize it today, nor would Presidents like Dwight Eisenhower and Ronald Reagan.

        I think that those who you call libs are not as far left as you think we are. I consider myself more of Blue Dog Democrat or an Independent since I vote for the person and not the party. I also believe in fiscal responsiblity. And I believe most Democrats also believe that our government needs to curb the spending and spend tax payers dollars wisely. Both parties have been guilty of wasting tax payer dollars and both need to admit they have contributed to this mess. When you start calling those who identify with the Republican Party but are not as far right as you are RINOs then you lose voters who feel they no longer belong and most certainly not wanted.

        You apparently believe that “entitlement” programs need to be cut, however, don’t you draw social security and some kind of veterans benifits? Are you on MediCare? If so, what are you willing to give up – or what kind of pay cut are you willing to take from these “entitlement” programs? For the elderly who are in nursing homes on MediCaid with little to a small income that is a social security check, what should be done with them? These are serious questions that need to be addressed.

        How much do we cut from military spending? There is a lot of waste in so many of the government programs to support the military. Do we cut veteran’s programs?

        You ask would libs fight for programs we believe in and have stood for over generations? The answer is yes, but it needs to be done with careful thought. And I do believe that we need to eleminate all tax loopholes and subsidies and enact a new tax code that is fair to all. The “libs” have fought for programs that are meant to protect the weakest in our society and there are always those who abuse the system. It is not an easy solution – if it were a solution would have already solved these problems.

      • tiredoflibbs July 29, 2011 / 2:52 pm

        vandregg:”I also believe in fiscal responsiblity. And I believe most Democrats also believe that our government needs to curb the spending and spend tax payers dollars wisely.”

        But your complaints have been only again the GOP. NEVER NEVER NEVER against the Democrats.

        Yeah I know, you just gave lip service to “both parties do it”. Still 99.5% of your criticism is against the GOP and made the excuse for obAMATEUR’s spending was due to the GOP.

        If yo ubelieve that most Democrats say the need to curb spending then you would be in the minority. Democrats have consistently said that there are no room for cuts (other than the military of course).

      • Amazona July 29, 2011 / 3:23 pm

        And you may have noticed that while Sunshine Velma votes “for the person, not the party” she doesn’t seem to have a clue as to WHY.

        That is, there has never been a hint in any of her posts about her underlying beliefs of how the nation should be best governed. All she ever does is gripe, whine, moan, bitch and complain about PEOPLE she has decided are evil.

        How can you vote “for the person, not the party” if you don’t even have a clear and coherent idea of what basic kind of government you really want? If you have not studied the Constitutional model and compared it to the Leftist model, if you have not bothered to look at the success/failure rates of each, if you have not made a commitment to the Big Government In Charge Of Everything system or the Small Government Personal Liberty And Responsibility system, on what do you base your vote?

        Personality? Hatred of Bush? Lefty talking points?

        Velma actually makes a very good point, which is that so many in this country don’t think of themselves as Lefties but still vote Left and still attack the Right.

        This can be due only to ignorance.

      • Amazona July 29, 2011 / 5:00 pm

        Thomas does an excellent job of illustrating the Left’s dependence on Identity Politics, and its disdain for the kind of politics that focuses on the best way to govern a nation.

        They do pretty well with identity Politics, playing one demographic off against another, telling groups that their “real enemies” are actually Americans who just happen to have different skin colors or viewpoint or incomes, but it is a shaky ground and it can shift under them at any time.

        The TEA Party movement has been a real threat to the radical Left, focusing as it has on ideas, on ideology, on the Constitution as a conscious choice for governance of the nation. This kind of shift cannot be tolerated, and must be destroyed, so the Left plays to its most gullible and hate-dependent segment and starts virulent campaigns against this upstart unorganized movement that simply wants a nation governed by its own rule of law.

        Only Identity Politics and those who espouse it and depend on it can make comments about how this or that “demographic” will vote. Its opposite political system is one based on individuality, on personal responsibility and personal liberty, and in this model individuals make individual choices. Again, the TEA Party proved to be a threat, as it went against the Identity Politics model and appealed to all races, ages and income levels.

      • Mark Noonan July 29, 2011 / 5:44 pm

        Sunny,

        As a matter of curiosity, can you give me an example of Democrats actually proposing something which would result in lower spending? I’ll even cut you some slack and say that “lower spending” only has to mean “spending as a percentage of GDP”. Without gimmicks and not waiting years for it to happen, where is the Democrat proposal which would do that by, say, 2013?

      • Mark Noonan July 29, 2011 / 5:54 pm

        Thomas,

        Governor Rick Perry of Texas already governs in a State which does not have a white majority…and yet he’s a pretty solidly conservative Republican with good TEA Party bona fides. Texas is 45.3% white, 37.6% latino, 11.8% black…and yet Perry managed to get just under 55% of the total vote in 2010, the Democrat got less than 43%. With that sort of vote total, Perry simply must have done well among minority voters…

        The bottom line is that a robust, conservative message can resonate across ethnic lines…and it can be banked upon that latino voters, as they become increasingly integrated in to American life will, like all other immigrant demographics in the past, move more to the right (the only exception to this rule has been black Americans…who seem to have moved just about in a body from being overwhelmingly Republican to being overwhelmingly Democrat…and while there are signs that the Democrat monopoly is breaking down, we can rely upon it that the black vote will be just about uniformly Democrat in 2012 as Obama will be the candidate…after that, though, we’ll see what happens).

        You can’t count on minority voters making liberalism a permanent majority…in fact, we on the right are just about counting on the socially conservative, overwhelmingly Catholic latino demographic eventually giving a majority of its votes to the GOP.

      • dbschmidt July 29, 2011 / 10:48 pm

        Mark,

        I would have to add a real spending cut and not the CongressCritters version of a cut which roughly translates to “if I was going to get a 50% increase next year and only got a 35% increase–why that is a 15% cut in spending.” A real 15% in spending is vastly different.

  3. Cluster July 29, 2011 / 10:35 am

    If we would just govern this nation conservatively, everyone would be better off. Lower income people would have more opportunity, more people would be working, the nation would be stronger, and products and services would be less expensive. I don’t understand why liberals are afraid of competition, because competition is what improves everything, from price, to product, to people. For most industries, the only regulation our government should be employing is the justice department. If business’s, or crooked players, violate anti trust laws, than slap them hard, otherwise, let the free markets work as they were intended to. If the government would get out of the way, competition would bring down health care costs, competition would improve health care services, competition would allow workers to demand better wages, competition could improve school curricula, competition would encourage innovation, etc, etc.

    Take a look at the high tech industry, and look at what competition has done for them. The products are improving daily and are affordable, high tech workers are very well paid, and the industry has a very bright future, that is however provided that the government doesn’t intervene and screw it up.

  4. Sunny July 29, 2011 / 12:41 pm

    Finally a Republican with some common sense:

    “WASHINGTON — GOP opposition to a deal that would extend the debt ceiling through the 2012 elections softened a bit on Friday as an influential Senate Republican said he supported the idea of putting off the issue for another year and a half.

    Appearing on MSNBC, Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) said that in light of the drama and political theatrics of the past few weeks, it would not be “healthy” to have to raise the debt ceiling again in six months — something that House Speaker John Boehner’s (R-Ohio) bill would require.

    “Well, I mean, I would love to see us go ahead and achieve all the savings that we can get right now,” said Corker, who has played a leading role in his party in debt reduction conversations. “Again, I’d like, of course to push it towards $4 trillion, which is what the markets have said we need to do. But I do agree with the fact that having these debates in the middle of an economic downturn that we’re having right now is not healthy, and there’s no question that business people, those people that hire employees across our country, watch this and become uncertain.”

    Without certainity the business community cannot make any long term decisions regarding hiring.

    • tiredoflibbs July 29, 2011 / 12:50 pm

      Just imagine if Democrats had debated and amended Cut Cap and Balance (with bipartisan support in the House) or the Ryan plan or Boehner’s plan. Instead they and Harry Reid squashed it, not even allowing for debate or amendments.

      All because, obAMATEUR does not want this as an election year issue, regardless of the FACT that this is his doing with no budget proposed for over two years even though he had total contol for 90% of that time. He and the Democrats just kep passing appropriation bills and racking up >$1 trillion deficits and and added $4 trillion to the debt in two years.

      Perhaps “common sense” should start with your own party.

      • Thomas July 29, 2011 / 12:58 pm

        tired of facts,

        the GOP is caving and ripping apart at the seams.

        I bet that reid’s version will pass with around 60 votes and it will go to the house where enough dems and gop defectors will vote for it.

        the tea party will be left out in the cold….sniff sniff.

      • Sunny July 29, 2011 / 1:55 pm

        You know tired, your flippant answers do not resolve anything. Is there some reason you cannot just use the President’s name instead of the childish spelling?

        Just imagine if the Rupublicans had brought the amendment to the floor in a proper way! Just imagine that! Instead of playing games.

        In order to pass a new amendment to the constitution it needs to be done as a stand alone amendment and not attached to anything else. Of course it was squashed by the Democrats – just as the Republicans would have squashed such an amendment had it come up under the Bush administration attached to other legislation. For someone who thinks they know so much about how the system works you are apparently sorly undereducated on amending the Constitution of the United States,

      • tiredoflibbs July 29, 2011 / 3:01 pm

        vandreggs: ” For someone who thinks they know so much about how the system works you are apparently sorly undereducated on amending the Constitution of the United States”

        uh, I do. And you once again demonstrate your ignorance of Cap Cut and Balance (and anything else for that matter).

        This legislation did not attach an amendment to the Constitution but “Requires the passage of a Balanced Budget Amendment BEFORE raising the nation’s debt limit.”

        http://www.gop.gov/policy-news/11/07/15/the-cut-cap

        Sheesh, why do you continue to embarrass yourself? BTW, obama is an AMATEUR and shows it daily with ZERO leadership.

      • tiredoflibbs July 29, 2011 / 3:05 pm

        tommy-boy (lebowitz): “the GOP is caving and ripping apart at the seams.”

        The GOP is trying to get this done. The Democrats have floated nothing but trial balloons and no written legislation. They have reduced their demands in cuts as a sort of compromise, where the Democrats (harry reid and obAMATEUR) have stated anything with be squashed and/or vetoed – no compromise. The Democrats are willing to play games with the well-being of this country since they have a willing press to place blame on the Republicans.

        You present nothing in the way of facts nor regute anything.

        Pathetic.

      • Thomas July 29, 2011 / 3:14 pm

        tiredoffacts,

        I will do you a favor and educate you. Perhaps next time you can do that yourself.

        The GOP is trying to get this done.

        that’s why they won’t have a clean debt ceiling vote without attaching cuts to it right? I guess all those GOPers who voted for the increase in spending the last decade all of a sudden had a change of heart. pathetic.

        The Democrats have floated nothing but trial balloons and no written legislation.

        I guess you missed the Reid bill in the Senate. Either that or you’re a partisan hack. I would go with the second option!

        They have reduced their demands in cuts as a sort of compromise, where the Democrats (harry reid and obAMATEUR) have stated anything with be squashed and/or vetoed – no compromise.

        again, your lies notwithstanding, the dems have simply said that they wanted revenue increases along with cuts. They gave that portion up as a favor to the GOP. What does Boehner do? struggle to pass a bill that is so right wing tea party pleasing, that it stands NO chance even with moderate GOP members in the Senate. Again, educate yourself.

        The Democrats are willing to play games with the well-being of this country since they have a willing press to place blame on the Republicans.

        ahhh..the victim card. awwww…poor GOP, you don’t have the press, you don’t have anything! booohooo, let me play my violin while you complain. Like your loon buddy Green said…life isn’t fair, deal with it. If your delusional party cared about the well being of the nation, they’d simply vote up or down on a debt ceiling increase. a CLEAN vote with nothing attached. But….being the dishonest dirty lowlife scum they are, they don’t.

        Try again drone. How did you get a gig writing for this blog again? low entry standards around here.

      • tiredoflibbs July 29, 2011 / 3:52 pm

        tommy-boy, you spew opinion no facts.

        WHAT REID BILL? Senate number please? Reid has floated ideas nothing more.

        obAMATEUR and most Democrats were against increasing the debt limit with lower deficits, why the change of heart now? Is it because they were nothing more than massive spendthrifts after years of preaching “fiscal responsibility”?

        The dems want revenue increases and are not playing games? Why then did obAMATEUR extend the Bush tax cuts knowing this issue was still hanging over their heads?

        They are unwilling to compromise. They want immediate tax increases with promised cuts. They have done this before with Reagan and Bush Sr. the cuts never happen.

        Perhaps if you were educated in facts rather than talking points you could make a possible argument but alas you can’t.

        The whining is from the left and the White House with their fear mongering that the GOP is going to ruin Christmas, keep social security checks from being sent out and taking away medicare benefits from children.

        Go away lebowitz, your name change cannot change the ignorance you still regurgitatae.

        there is no way in hell you can educate anyone with the level of ignorance you display time and again.

      • Thomas July 29, 2011 / 4:08 pm

        tiredoffacts,

        again with the lies. and do try not to copy me doofus.

        WHAT REID BILL? Senate number please? Reid has floated ideas nothing more.

        This Reid bill. I even went to the foxnews site to pull the article. Read the FIRST paragraph and there you have it stated that he is moving forward with his BILL. you know, the one that cuts MORE than the GOP version. Poor tea party losers, they should be supporting Reid.

        http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/07/29/reid-prepares-alternative-proposal-to-raise-debt-ceiling/

        obAMATEUR and most Democrats were against increasing the debt limit with lower deficits, why the change of heart now? Is it because they were nothing more than massive spendthrifts after years of preaching “fiscal responsibility”?

        same thing can be said about the GOP loser. They supported all those years of increases…until a democrat is President. Yep, honesty is a GOP staple isn’t it?

        The dems want revenue increases and are not playing games? Why then did obAMATEUR extend the Bush tax cuts knowing this issue was still hanging over their heads?

        ITS CALLED COMPROMISE YOU STUPID IDIOT. he compromised and gave the GOP something they could vote for. It’s that simple. He still had the majority in the House at the time, but he still compromised with the GOP.

        They are unwilling to compromise. They want immediate tax increases with promised cuts. They have done this before with Reagan and Bush Sr. the cuts never happen.

        you’re a liar, not a good one, but still a liar. Keep up the good work, I bet those NewsCorps checks are pouring in.

        Perhaps if you were educated in facts rather than talking points you could make a possible argument but alas you can’t.

        This coming from the guy who didn’t know that Bachmann worked for the IRS for 5 years and has been getting government funding for her “business” and husbands farm. Yep. You are a regular genius. NOT.

        The whining is from the left and the White House with their fear mongering that the GOP is going to ruin Christmas, keep social security checks from being sent out and taking away medicare benefits from children.

        All true. The GOP will ruin xmas. Just saying GOP and xmas in the same sentence ruins it. why don’t you cry me a river with your constant victim card…jesus, if you were any more the victim, cluster would think you’re a minority!

        Go away lebowitz, your name change cannot change the ignorance you still regurgitatae.

        I love being here and popping holes in your imaginary world. Keep up the shitty lies.

      • Retired Spook July 29, 2011 / 4:28 pm

        I guess all those GOPers who voted for the increase in spending the last decade all of a sudden had a change of heart. pathetic.

        Wake up, Thomas. There are nearly 100 (about 1/5 of the entire House) for whom this is the first debt ceiling vote ever. And I think their passion for returning the federal government to fiscal sanity IS beginning to have an effect on GOP Congressmen who have been there for a while. And a number of the worst offending GOP Congressmen in terms of spending were primaried out in the spring of 2010.

      • tiredoflibbs July 29, 2011 / 8:42 pm

        tommy-boy (lebowitz) fails again: “This Reid bill. I even went to the foxnews site to pull the article. Read the FIRST paragraph and there you have it stated that he is moving forward with his BILL. you know, the one that cuts MORE than the GOP version. Poor tea party losers, they should be supporting Reid.”

        The first paragraph? Hmmmm talks about Boehner’s bill…. no mention of Harry Reid’s “bill”.

        From your “proof”: “With the U.S. moving perilously closer to defaulting on its loans, the House passed an increase in the federal debt limit as part of Speaker John Boehner’s third version of a deficit-reduction bill, which includes a balanced budget amendment — a pivotal provision for securing the support of hard-line Republicans.”

        Nor mention of his “bill” anywhere. Again, Harry Reid has floated ideas there are no pieces of legislation waiting to be debated in the Senate. He has seen to that by squashing anything that comes through.

        Boehner’s latest version is short on cuts because he is trying to get this through a log-jamming Senate. The first two proposals by the House cut FOUR TRILLION dollars in REAL cuts, and not reductions on budgetary increases as in Harry Reid’s “bill”.

        And tommy-boy (lebowitz) failed again: “ITS CALLED COMPROMISE YOU STUPID IDIOT. he compromised and gave the GOP something they could vote for.”

        No obAMATEUR caved 100% on extending the tax cuts stating that raising taxes during a recession was bad for the economy. Nothing has improved with the economy, it is getting worse and now he wants to raise taxes? Again, with this issue coming up, why did he sign tax cuts if they are so needed only 8 months later? Again, obAMATEUR is playing games hoping to put the blame on the Republicans. It is not working and it is pissing you off….sniff sniff.

        Again, I reveal you to be the fool you are. Don’t you have scum to scrape off those little tykes teeth? At least there you can be somewhat productive.

    • Amazona July 29, 2011 / 5:08 pm

      “Just saying GOP and xmas in the same sentence ruins it. why don’t you cry me a river with your constant victim card”

      What a brilliant example of what passes for intellectual political discourse from thomas!

      And now simply talking in general terms about an idea for a bill that might be assembled, someday, is suddenly A BILL!

      The murk and mire of Leftist thought processes becomes more and more defined as our resident trolls expose themselves as ever-increasingly silly, ideology-deficient and addicted to mindless insults in lieu of actual discussion.

      And, of course, they flinch from actually using the word CHRISTmas…..

  5. Cluster July 29, 2011 / 3:25 pm

    You should be asking why the GOP does NOT get minorities if your party is such a big open tent which includes people of all backgrounds. – Thomas

    Such an easy rebuttal. It’s because the GOP, for the most part, does not pander to, and promise hand outs to those constituents. That’s the main reason why those folks vote democrat, hence the $14 trillion dollar debt. Once the promises go unfulfilled, let’s see how loyal those folks are. It’s easy to give the farm away for a vote, the problem is that you can’t do it forever, and your days are numbered now.

    • Thomas July 29, 2011 / 3:36 pm

      Cluster,

      You’re joking right?

      It’s because the GOP, for the most part, does not pander to, and promise hand outs to those constituents.

      so you’re saying minorities vote democrat because they are lazy and democrats promise them things? So the GOP doesn’t pander to the NRA? the GOP doesn’t pander to a plethora of conservative organizations? Really? Pandering is a Democratic thing?

      That’s the main reason why those folks vote democrat, hence the $14 trillion dollar debt.

      Oh, so now you’re putting the debt on the backs of immigrants and the supposed “promises and handouts” that dems give? So you think Social Security and Medicare are handouts right? I guess you conveniently forget the bailout to the GOP buddies on wall street…those weren’t handouts.

      Once the promises go unfulfilled, let’s see how loyal those folks are. It’s easy to give the farm away for a vote, the problem is that you can’t do it forever, and your days are numbered now.

      pure and utter stupidity seeping through your posts. Let’s try and keep ourselves hinged, rather than becoming unhinged like you seem to have become.

      • Cluster July 29, 2011 / 4:21 pm

        Thomas,

        You simply don’t pay attention very closely do you? The dmoecrats and their great society are now, for the most part, responsible for 1 in 7 people receiving food stamps, for demonizing anyone who wants to reform the unsustainable programs of Medicare/Medicaid/SS, for prolonging unemployment for 99 weeks, for handing out an $800 billion package to the unions, etc, etc. So hell yes, they not only pander, but they incite fear and use the US Treasury to get elected.

        Please stop being such a mindless idiot.

      • Retired Spook July 29, 2011 / 6:05 pm

        So the GOP doesn’t pander to the NRA? the GOP doesn’t pander to a plethora of conservative organizations? Really? Pandering is a Democratic thing?

        You missed the second part of Cluster’s statement, the part about “handouts to constituents”. So what conservative constituencies do Republicans give handouts to? What conservative constituencies are promised gov’mint cheese in exchange for their votes?

  6. Amazona July 29, 2011 / 3:49 pm

    Well, Sunny/Vel, as usual you make no sense whatsoever.

    Just imagine if the Republicans had brought an amendment to the floor at all! Just imagine that!

    But they didn’t. Not even close. What they DID do, which evidently flew right over your head while you were composing some snotty claim to Constitutional knowledge, was present a bill with a two-stage debt ceiling hike—but the second stage could not go into effect unless and until Congress votes on a balanced budget amendment.

    Not even CLOSE to “bringing an amendment to the floor”. Imagine that!

    Here is a summary. Root around in it and find that pesky amendment you claim was improperly brought “to the floor”.

    Two-Step Approach to Hold President Obama Accountable

    Republicans insisted that if the president wants his debt ceiling increase, the American people will require serious spending cuts and reforms. This two-step approach meets House Republicans’ criteria by (1) making spending cuts that are larger than any debt ceiling increase; (2) implementing spending caps to restrain future spending; and (3) advancing the cause of the Balanced Budget Amendment – without tax hikes on families and job creators. Although this is not the House-passed “Cut, Cap, and Balance,” it is a package that reflects the principles of Cut, Cap, and Balance. Here is more information on the plan:

    • Cuts that exceed the debt hike. The framework would cut and cap discretionary spending immediately, saving $1.2 trillion over 10 years (subject to CBO confirmation), and raise the debt ceiling by less – up to $1 trillion.

    • Caps to control future spending. The framework imposes spending caps that would establish clear limits on future spending and serve as a barrier against government expansion while the economy grows. Failure to remain below these caps will trigger automatic across-the-board cuts (otherwise known as sequestration).

    • Balanced Budget Amendment. The framework advances the cause of the Balanced Budget Amendment by requiring the House and Senate to vote on the measure after Oct. 1, but before the end of the year, allowing the American people time to build sufficient support for this popular reform.

    • Entitlement Reforms & Savings. The framework creates a Joint Committee of Congress that is required to report legislation that would produce a proposal to reduce the deficit by at least $1.8 trillion over 10 years. Each chamber would consider the proposal of the joint committee on an up-or-down basis without any amendments. If the proposal is enacted, then the president would be authorized to request a debt limit increase of $1.6 trillion.

    • No Tax Hikes. The framework included no tax hikes, a key principle that Republicans have been fighting for since Day 1

    Or maybe you just prefer to IMAGINE that!

  7. Amazona July 29, 2011 / 3:57 pm

    thomas, you can post only by restating what others have said and then sneering down your own inventions.

    Between that and your skittering around from one thing to another like a flea on a hot skillet, there is no way to have a reasonable discussion with you. You are so hyper and so hateful, your default reaction to anything anyone says is to fly off in some direction where you think you can find an accusation, an insult, or an indictment of the so-hated (yet imaginary) “Right”.

    Benjamin Franklin noted: “When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” And this is what we are seeing now.

    cluster commented, very accurately, that people who get government handouts tend to vote Democrat, as they want those handouts to continue. You reframed that comment as an attack on immigrants, which was in fact a rather funny (though I am sure inadvertent) reference to the observation that the Dems are offering handouts and citizenship to illegal immigrants to secure their votes, to keep the gravy train running.

    And so on……..

    • Green Mountain Boy July 29, 2011 / 4:54 pm

      Demomocrat….donkrat….still nothing but a bunch of pigs. pigs feeding at the trough of tax dollars. Buying votes since Jan 1913. How much longer can it last?

  8. Cluster July 29, 2011 / 6:13 pm

    It sounds like Dems are caving:

    Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is open to allowing a vote on a balanced budget amendment as long as the GOP compromises on taking a debt default off the table through 2012, Roll Call reports.

    Read more on Newsmax.com: Reid: I’m Open to Vote on Balanced Budget
    Important: Do You Support Pres. Obama’s Re-Election? Vote Here Now!

    • tiredoflibbs July 29, 2011 / 8:47 pm

      “Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is open to allowing a vote on a balanced budget amendment as long as the GOP compromises on taking a debt default off the table through 2012, Roll Call reports.”

      Of course, obAMATEUR and many Democrats do not want this to be an issue in the 2012 elections. Just like they did not want a budget that they passed be an issue in the 2010 election – so they punted. And are trying to do it again!

      They have no fresh ideas, just the same liberal BS again and again. But the mindless drones like tommy-boy (lebowitz), monty (jeffy) and sunny (vandreggs) will continue to defend and demand them.

      Pathetic.

  9. dbschmidt July 29, 2011 / 11:11 pm

    Where of where are the Democrats like Pelsoi and the windfall tax on them evil corporations that are ripping off the poor and middle class???

    Exxon Mobil (Evil) as compared to Apple (Good)–hmmm mmmm mmmm Obama, which is cleaning the clocks of the average American?

    Exxon Mobil
    Market Cap (intraday)5: 393.05B
    Enterprise Value (Jul 30, 2011)3: 413.44B
    Most Recent Quarter (mrq): Mar 31, 2011
    Profitability
    Profit Margin (ttm): 9.56%
    Operating Margin (ttm): 12.82%
    Qtrly Earnings Growth (yoy): 69.00%

    Apple
    Market Cap (intraday)5: 362.01B
    Enterprise Value (Jul 30, 2011)3: 334.86B
    Most Recent Quarter (mrq): Jun 25, 2011
    Profitability
    Profit Margin (ttm): 23.53%
    Operating Margin (ttm): 30.43%
    Qtrly Earnings Growth (yoy): 124.70%

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