Abuse of the Welfare State

Writ large in Michigan – from Detroit News:

…Here we go again — the cold-harded GOP elitists are balancing the budget on the back of the poor.

More than 11,000 people will see their welfare benefits end on Oct. 1.

What will they do? Well, most haven’t considered working as an option.

The Department of Human Services sent letters to 11,062 welfare recipients, notifying them their checks are coming to an end. Included was a toll-free number people could call for information and assistance.

The hotline got 1,401 calls. Of that number, only eight callers requested help in finding a job.

Many of those being cut off have been on public assistance for 14 years. That’s not a safety net; it’s a hammock…

Except for those actually incapable of work – and, remember, I have an exceptionally high bar for that – all people must work.  I don’t care if its just picking up trash in the city streets, no one should ever be allowed to sit on their rear and collect any sort of government benefit.  Furthermore, in order to ensure that the search for work is diligent, welfare should never pay more 80% of a minimum wage job.  Any job, any where – even those “jobs Americans won’t do” and are thus filled by illegals – should pay more than government assistance.  Welfare should only be just enough to keep body and soul together until the recipient finds a job.

The best estimate that I have found of non-health care, non-Social Security welfare spending by the United States government is in the range of $350 to $500 billion per year (its hard to tell because Uncle Sam – determined to not make it easy for us – doesn’t have a category of spending called “welfare”…you have to dig around for it).  I’ll bet that State and local welfare spending adds at least 25% to that figure (and it is probably higher)…even at the low end, we’re talking more than $400 billion per year spent by government in various transfer payments to people who didn’t pay any “input” taxes (in other words, didn’t pay SS taxes, didn’t pay taxes which fund unemployment, etc).  I’ll bet that three quarters (at least) of that money is going to people who can work, but choose not to.

Add in the waste and fraud in Social Security disability, the number of people who get healthcare on the public dime without putting in anything, the drain caused by illegal immigration, and the money spent on worthless aspects of education (what is that?  Worthwhile education spending:  education spending which results in an engineer, teacher or doctor.  Worthless education:  spending which results in diversity coordinators, corporate bureaucrats and lawyers) and you’re probably getting in to the range of a trillion dollars per year of drain on the economy…money which is spent that has no net, positive benefit.  Money which just goes to leeches.

This has to change – and the welfare reform in Michigan shows why:  some people are so long on the public dime that they simply have no desire to get off it.  They must be forced off – work, or starve.  A complete audit of all recipients of government money must be done…and all able-bodied people with no minor children must be kicked off of government support; those with children must be forced to do at least some work in payment for their welfare; only those absolutely incapable of working (or on a program they directly paid in to over the years) should be allowed to remain.

There is still plenty of work on the low end in the United States…work which doesn’t need even a high school diploma (how many from the backwaters of Mexico and the third world who come here illegally have such?).  It is, often, hard and dirty work…but work is honorable, and all honest work creates personal dignity.  Better to be poor digging a ditch than poor watching daytime television.  Mind you, I’ll go ten thousand extra miles to help out anyone who is working hard and still not able to make ends meet…you put in your 40 hours and you’re still short, you can count on me to either work it through charity or, if need be, enact laws to ensure that you and your family have decent food, housing, clothing and basic health care…but the first step is that 40 hours of work.

We must become a nation of hard work, thrift and careful investment…massive reforms need to be undertaken, and none of them can really be done in isolation.  Big Corporation also needs to feel the hammer; Big government, naturally; all of us have to stand up and do what is right…after generations of coasting on  borrowed money.  The only way we keep our nation is if we work for it.  Period, end of story.  Anyone who says otherwise is simply not understanding the nature of life.


77 thoughts on “Abuse of the Welfare State

  1. Cluster August 26, 2011 / 9:47 am

    A good example of welfare abuse is the daughter of one of my wife’s friends. This girl is in her early thirties, with three children from two separate fathers, living with her current boyfriend (the father of two). They refuse to marry because that would end her benefits, which consist of free healthcare for her and her three children, and food stamps to the tune of $500/mo. All the while, they live in their new home which they bought two years ago, have a late model PT Cruiser they bought about a year ago, plus a late model pickup, and he works as an electrician making approx. $17/hr.

    I am sure that they are just one of many families across the nation milking the tax payers while liberals demonize those that actually go to work and provide for themselves, and call for more “sacrifice”

    • Mark Edward Noonan August 26, 2011 / 10:16 am


      I know of a man who gets disability, foster care money for his nephews (his sister is in jail) and works under the table for cash…remember, he works under the table and takes care of three kids and he’s disabled? Kudos to the guy for looking after his sister’s children (and I don’t mind that he’s getting foster care money for that), but how is a physically capable man rated as disabled?

      On and on it goes like that…scam after scam after scam. It has to stop – not only are we broke, but we’re being morally degraded as a people.

      • Cluster August 26, 2011 / 10:39 am

        If we had more targeted government, meaning local county and state government administering welfare, we could more easily identify those who truly need it, vs those who are simply gaming the system. As it is now, liberals champion a one-size-fits all large bureaucratic government that is by definition wasteful, incompetent and corrupt. What don’t they understand about that?

      • Mark Edward Noonan August 26, 2011 / 11:20 am


        The rank and file is just blinded by propaganda…the leaders like it this way because it allows maximum power and wealth for the leaders while undercutting the basis of American liberty: independent men and women who look after themselves.

        As for me, I’d block grant out the welfare funds to Churches and other social welfare groups and just audit them from time to time…who better to pass out the welfare…a high paid bureaucrat with a vested interest in keeping as many on the dole as possible, or an unpaid or low-paid volunteer who gets no money for helping but a sense of accomplishment by turning a dependent in to a citizen?

    • Majordomo Pain August 27, 2011 / 3:58 pm

      Does this woman not have the right to pursue happiness?

  2. tiredoflibbs August 26, 2011 / 11:38 am

    It doesn’t help that we have groups like ACORN providing instruction and advice on now to game the system.

    • Sunny August 26, 2011 / 12:20 pm

      ACORN no longer exits.

      • js August 26, 2011 / 12:38 pm

        yes they do…they are just hidding behind different names…trying to dump the bad reputation that they aquired…its like rats running from the nest…all differnt directions…still rats…just not in the same hole

      • Bodie August 26, 2011 / 1:20 pm

        Shhhhhh! Stop stepping on tired’s talking points, Sunny!

      • tiredoflibbs August 26, 2011 / 1:21 pm

        When ACORN “existed” as a formal group, they did provide instruction and advice on how to game the system. This has been proven on hidden camera and shown on national news.

        ACORN stopped “existing” within the 1-2 years. Their damage has been done.

        Sheesh, you drones are a little short on thought aren’t you.

      • Caveat Emptor August 26, 2011 / 1:24 pm

        ACORN is actively involved in this Court case, No. 10-1068: ACORN v. United States; they recently lost an appeal at the US Supreme Court.

        ACORN most certainly still exists.

        Click to access 2010-1068.resp.pdf

        And they’re still the same liars and thieves they’ve always been; your kind of people Velma and Sasan.

      • tiredoflibbs August 26, 2011 / 1:40 pm

        tommy-boy “exist” is in quotes.

        I expected you would not understand that little nuance.

        From wikipedia: As part of the effort by some chapters to stay afloat by severing ties with the national organization, California ACORN changed its name to Alliance of Californians for Community Empowerment,[114] New York ACORN renamed itself New York Communities for Change,[9] and an offshoot of the ACORN organization called Acorn Housing changed its name to Affordable Housing Centers of America[115] yet has retained the same tax and employee identification numbers that it held under its former name.[116]

        Aren’t you tired of being bitch-slapped all the time? Being proven wrong time and again?

      • Bowie August 26, 2011 / 1:51 pm

        ACORN still exists, they may not “exit” as Velma wrote, but ACORN is still around; they cannot function as they did before under their current charter unless they prevail in their court case.

        ACORN International ((a.k.a. Community Organizations International) is currently operating in Canada, Mexico, Peru, Kenya, the Dominican Republic and India and still under the “leadership” of Wade Rathke. .

        WOW, Sasan’s frustration at having been exposed is palpable, isn’t it?

        He just keeps getting nastier and nastier.

      • thomasg0102 August 26, 2011 / 1:56 pm

        keep it up with your boogie man fears of an organization that no longer exists.

        The court case was initated and brought to the court last year. it’s not even relevant today due to the change in name of the organization and change in charter.

        hmm..if an organization changes its name, and charter, you would think it would be considered a new org….nope, not in conservative victim conspiracy land.

        and for the umpteenth time, if you don’t have any evidence of who you think I am or am not, it only makes you look like a fool.

        I love how conservatives, when they are on the short end of an argument, always resort to “finding” out who posters are. Shows your true colors…which is no surprise.

        come out of your shells Amy and Count of can’t….

      • Bowie August 26, 2011 / 1:59 pm


        Notice how Sasan always answers me?


      • Caveat Emptor August 26, 2011 / 2:05 pm

        You’re wrong Sasan, No. 10-1068: ACORN v. United States was appealed to the US Supreme Court from the Second Court of Appeals and was rejected in June of this year.

        The Court does not issue rulings when there is no petitioner.

        As was pointed out ACORN International is currently operating and it’s the same ACORN; crooks, liars, cheats. ACORN is still around and you’re wrong for the umpteeth time.

      • thomasg0102 August 26, 2011 / 2:09 pm

        keep up the lies and fake images of who I am. If you only knew.

        good try though. I commend you for being such an idiot. it’s hard work I am sure.

      • Caveat Emptor August 26, 2011 / 2:12 pm

        You’re right Bowie, he always answers to Sasan.

        Does the name “Pavlov” ring a bell?

      • dbschmidt August 26, 2011 / 4:05 pm

        “A Judicial Watch investigation has revealed that on March 1, 2011, HUD announced a $79,819 federal grant to ACHOA to “educate the public and housing providers about their rights and obligations under federal, state, and local fair housing laws… Nonetheless, the government’s own website that lists federal expenditures identifies the organization receiving the $79,819 grant as “ACORN Housing Corporation Inc,” and lists ACORN’s New Orleans, Louisiana, address. Moreover, ACHOA maintains the same board of directors, executive director and offices as its predecessor, ACORN Housing Corporation, Inc.”

        Apparently, our government believes it does.

      • dbschmidt August 27, 2011 / 5:23 pm

        So I would have to assume that person or entity cashed the $79,819 grant ???

      • dbschmidt August 27, 2011 / 5:45 pm

        Problem is–that request after request is either met or exceeded yet some continue to people defend the undefinable.

  3. js August 26, 2011 / 12:27 pm

    if they gave a min 10yr prison sentence for entitlement fraud…ppl would think about it…lost your kids…cars…go to jail..

    then…we need to start siezing the estates of folks who spend more than 1 year in our prisons…give the state authority to liquidate property to pay for incarceration…no excuse for someone to walk out of a 5 year stint on tax payer money only to return to a million dollars left behind…if they can afford to pay for thier room and board make them do so…i remember i Germany…they used to bill inmates family members for costs in prisons….social justice…

  4. RetiredSpook August 26, 2011 / 12:47 pm

    I posted a link to a Washington Post article about dissatisfaction with Obama in the black community in a previous thread. It’s much more apropos to this thread. Here’s the article with some personal editorial comments bolded:

    Obama faces uncomfortable questions from black community, lawmakers
    By Peter Wallsten and Krissah Thompson, Published: August 25

    From the start of his history-making tenure, the nation’s first black president took care never to be seen making policy or political decisions aimed solely or directly at black America. His position: He is the president of the whole country, focused on broad-based fixes to “lift all boats.” (well, all except the black boats)

    The race-avoidance strategy served President Obama well, helping him attract support from many whites while also mobilizing African Americans energized by the powerful symbol of a black commander in chief. (You gotta be kidding me)

    But a soaring jobless rate among African Americans and a newfound comfort by black lawmakers to criticize Obama’s economic policies are prompting the White House to recalibrate – and to focus more directly on the struggles of black America.

    The shift comes amid a growing concern among some Democrats that the stubborn economic conditions in minority communities might hamper efforts by Obama’s reelection campaign to generate the large black voter turnout it needs in key cities to make up for his declining support among white independents. (Yeah, that’s what happens when you deprive addicts of drugs; it’s called withdrawal)

    This week, the White House dispatched a top official to participate in a Congressional Black Caucus jobs forum in Miami that had been scheduled in part to pressure the White House.

    The official, Don Graves, the executive director of the president’s Council on Jobs and Competitiveness, told black lawmakers that the president would consider taking executive action to enact at least parts of jobs-related measures they have introduced to no avail in the Republican-led House.

    “You may not feel like the president is listening to you, but he hears you loud and clear,” Graves told the lawmakers before an audience of hundreds crammed into the pews of the Mount Hermon African Methodist Episcopal Church. (yeah, come one, he hasn’t made ANY of my mortgage payments yet, no car payments. no gas, no groceries — only frickin food stamps — LOTS AND LOTS OF FOOD STAMPS)

    The new approach is subtle, but it is significant to African American lawmakers who have been pressing for the change since early spring. One proposal would extend aid to communities with long-standing poverty problems. Another would help the long-term unemployed. (OK, that’s more like it – dip into that Obama cash from Obama’s stash.)

    Both ideas would help mostly minorities, said Rep. Emanuel Cleaver II (D-Mo.), chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus. In steering clear of the overt race label, he added, “it’s not as in-your-face.” (NOT IN YOUR FACE? GMAFB!!)

    “They are paying closer attention to what’s going on in the urban core of the major cities,” Cleaver said.

    Several black lawmakers said they think the White House is considering additional targeted steps to boost urban communities as part of the jobs package the president plans to release shortly after Labor Day. (OK, more Obama cash — GOOD)

    And the White House announced this week that Obama will pay a Labor Day visit to Detroit, a hard-hit city where a town hall meeting held by the black caucus drew headlines last week when Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Calif.) decried the black jobless rate as “unconscionable” and blasted the president for his recent Midwestern bus tour that focused on rural white communities.

    The White House had also intended a major address for Sunday at the now-postponed dedication of the new memorial to the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. – at which the president could speak in personal terms about the continuing economic challenges black Americans face.

    The sharper White House focus on the needs of black Americans is indicative of a larger political problem facing Obama as he wages a reelection fight amid a stubbornly bad economy and sliding job-approval ratings.

    Black unemployment, which began rising toward the end of President George W. Bush’s term and was 11.5 percent when Obama was elected, now stands at 15.9 percent. The overall national rate is 9.1 percent. Moreover, black communities have been hit hard by the housing crisis, and a recent Pew study found that the median wealth of white households is 20 times that of black households.

    African Americans continue to give Obama high approval ratings – about 90 percent in most surveys. But a July Washington Post-ABC News poll shows how the economy complicates Obama’s ability to get the high black turnout he needs to win reelection – with the number of African Americans who say they think his actions have helped the economy dropping from 77 percent in October to a little more than half this summer.

    “The White House has got to be seeing this, too,” said Rep. James E. Clyburn (D-S.C.). “These realizations have begun to set in.” Clyburn noted what he said was a recent example of stepped-up administration efforts to reach minorities: a Tuesday visit to his district by Energy Secretary Steven Chu, who talked to black small-business owners seeking government contracts.

    Some Republicans have begun pointing to the economic strain on blacks, maybe hoping to dampen voter excitement about Obama next year. Campaign staff members for GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney, for instance, attended the Congressional Black Caucus’s jobs fair Tuesday in Miami, seeking to interview people who are unemployed. And former House speaker Newt Gingrich (Ga.), appearing Wednesday with Fox News host Sean Hannity, lamented the “level of personal pain, family pain” associated with black unemployment and noted that “virtually every African American church in this country has members who are now unemployed.”

    The Obama campaign’s focus on black turnout was clear Thursday, as officials announced a new program called Project Vote, designed to target African Americans and other core constituencies for voter registration and outreach. The effort will be led in part by Michael Blake, who until recently directed black outreach at the White House. (We’ve screwed you – AGAIN, but you still have to vote for us, because, if you don’t, Republicans will burn your houses and churches, eat your children, rape your women and take away your social security, medicare, medicaid.)

    The Rev. Al Sharpton, a top outside adviser to the White House on black community concerns, said that political success in 2012 will require more policy specifics. (Gee, Al, d’ya think?) “There is going to have to be a different and more direct approach,” he said. “The direct approach has to say, ‘Here’s our jobs plan, here’s the plan to get it done and here’s the enemies against it.’ ”

    Some administration efforts have been underway for several months. A White House Web page devoted to African American issues was introduced this spring, and staff members are working on a glossy booklet that will detail ways that administration policies have benefited blacks.

    One program announced this summer would help Detroit make better use of federal grant money, officials said. White House officials also began a series of “urban entre­pre­neur­ship forums” in major cities, while they argue that measures such as the nation’s new health-care law help many minorities. (There are definitely some areas of Detroit that could use a little help – http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1882089_1850973,00.html )

    “They may not be targeted per se at the African American community, but they certainly have a positive impact in the African American community,” said Valerie Jarrett, a senior Obama adviser.

    Still, pressure has been building on the White House over the past two weeks as the black caucus has used a series of town hall meetings and job fairs in major cities to highlight African American unemployment and question the Obama agenda.

    At the Miami church Monday, Waters and other lawmakers expressed frustration about what they said was a reluctance by the first black president and his aides to speak directly about the pain African Americans are feeling.

    When Graves said that “certain communities have been hit harder than other communities,” Waters cut him off.

    “Let me hear you say ‘black,’ ” she said sternly. As the crowd cheered, Graves responded quietly: “Black, African American, Latino, these communities have been hard hit.”

    Bishop Victor Curry, head of the Miami-Dade NAACP, drew thunderous applause when he described black economic struggles in the age of Obama as the “300-pound elephant in the room.” (I’ll bet the applause was for when he said it was all Bush’s fault)

    “We don’t want to come across as being critical of the president,” Curry said. “But if the president can count on 90 percent of the African American vote, then the African American community should expect something from the man who’s getting 90 percent of their support.” (Can’t argue with that logic)

    There was caution in the room, however. Even the sharpest critics expressed a desire to stand by Obama in his reelection effort. And some argued that a black president simply cannot afford to be seen helping his own. <b?(Of course not — he might be labeled as RACIST! — or not.)

    “If he comes and speaks out for black people in the middle of this, he will lose his reelection, and you know it,” said Rep. Frederica S. Wilson (D-Fla.). “He has to temper this in such a manner so we can get him reelected, and once he’s a lame-duck president, I think we’ll see lots of changes and lots of movement toward the black community.” (This last paragraph really says it all)

    • thomasg0102 August 26, 2011 / 12:58 pm


      Your comments say it all with regards to why minorities don’t support the GOP. You’re a bunch of mean, racist baby boomers who hate poor people.

      Just like you demonize the President for paying attention to a specific segment of society, who happens to be poor, doesn’t mean it true.

      The man is a good President and it’s truly pathetic that you criticize him because he wants to help the black community in any way.

      • Mark Edward Noonan August 26, 2011 / 3:35 pm


        Don’t forget, we also beat puppies to death with tire irons…we are just nasty and cruel. Hideous, in fact…not a redeeming bone in our bodies….

        Or, perhaps, we actually want the poor to cease being poor…and thus no longer fodder for a Ruling Class wanting power and wealth for itself…

    • Bowie August 26, 2011 / 1:30 pm

      You didn’t actually expect Sasan to read that much did you Spook? Much less understand it.

      • RetiredSpook August 26, 2011 / 1:35 pm


      • thomasg0102 August 26, 2011 / 2:00 pm


        you deny that conservatives like yourselves target poor communities when the democrats try to help them?

        your whole article, and your idiotic comments basically say ONE thing. Obama shouldn’t help them, Obama shouldn’t pay attention to them, and Blacks should vote for the GOP because the dems suck.

        Seriously, how you became an intelligence officer is beyond me. I worry about our nations military if people like you serve in it.

      • Bowie August 26, 2011 / 2:09 pm

        It took Sasan that long to read it and he still doesn’t get it?

        Hey, poseur, the reason the article was posted was to demonstrate the unbelievable bias of the author and the media.

        Please stop embarrassing yourself; I’m actually starting to feel bad for you.


      • tiredoflibbs August 26, 2011 / 4:01 pm

        oh yeah, tommy-boy.

        Since the inception of the Great Society, the number of poor has decreased?

        The Democrats’ “help” has caused the destruction of the poor family, generational welfare and keeping them where they are in exchange for their vote.

        Wow, with help like that, you wonder why the poor can’t rise above where they are.

  5. Cluster August 26, 2011 / 1:58 pm

    Thomas is especially vile this morning. Of course when your entire political philosophy is based on hating evil white men and believing that minorities are incapable of providing for themselves without some large bureaucratic, benevolent government, I suppose anyone would be to quick to anger.

    • thomasg0102 August 26, 2011 / 2:06 pm

      nice straw man. do you practice that much?

    • Bowie August 26, 2011 / 2:10 pm

      And not answering for his stupidity.

      • Bodie August 26, 2011 / 2:14 pm

        mini me is back!

  6. Cluster August 26, 2011 / 2:10 pm

    Thomas is a good example of the ignorant, hyper sensitive, emotionally unstable left wing nut jobs that will make our efforts to win in 2012 that much easier. So please, encourage him.

    • thomasg0102 August 26, 2011 / 2:11 pm

      another straw man. you’re full of them today aren’t you.

      Rupert must have sent the email out early today.

  7. Cluster August 26, 2011 / 2:11 pm

    You’re a bunch of mean, racist baby boomers who hate poor people – thomas


    • thomasg0102 August 26, 2011 / 2:12 pm

      ignorant, hyper sensitive, emotionally unstable left wing nut jobs that will make our efforts to win in 2012 that much easier.

      LMAO! talk about deluded. poor conservative victims.

      • Cluster August 26, 2011 / 2:16 pm

        How is pointing out your delicate sensitivities playing the victim? I think one HUGE problem with liberals is the conclusions they derive at. Last night, Chris Hayes, the effeminate metrosexual with the Nation and MSNBC, concluded that Paul Ryan refuses to help storm victims because of his desire to see any associated costs off set with spending cuts.

        Rational people understand Ryan. Hyper sensitive liberals don’t.

      • Taly d'Haricots (@Count_dHaricots) August 26, 2011 / 2:21 pm

        As entertaining as this is, you really should lay of thomas “Little Bus” g. His flailing “I know you are but what am I” responses are just becoming pathetic.

        If I believed he had the capacity to fight back wouldn’t say anything, but it’s obvious he doesn’t even know how mentally challenged he’s coming across.

      • Cluster August 26, 2011 / 4:34 pm


        Thomas is one of a kind, at least here. Unfortunately there are many others just as stupid walking the streets

  8. js August 26, 2011 / 2:16 pm

    thomastooge is a troll…just read this thread…its not hard to miss the drivel…of a mental midget

    • Taly d'Haricots (@Count_dHaricots) August 26, 2011 / 2:24 pm

      Same thing; thomas isn’t firing on all pistons.

      He’s just sad the way he flails around insisting he’s right when he’s proven so wrong so often.

      • neocon1 August 26, 2011 / 4:31 pm


        sasan arab summer?
        can you imagine a family reunion?
        AK’s being fired in the air, OLD WHITE neighbors being cursed at,
        prayer carpets strewn about and of course the hidden porno books all the good jihadists covet.

    • js August 26, 2011 / 5:49 pm

      with literacy comes responsiblity thomastooge…responsibility to tell the truth…obviously that moral behavior was totally omitted from your education..what little of it you got…truthfully…that case…from 2009…its still ongoing you moron…ACORN exists…then…

      after another posted how ACORN was still pulling fed funding as late as March this year…you are stupid enough to come back and…harp on what?? YOUR LIE

      you really are a mental midget thomastooge…a troll…

      how much do you get paid by Media Matters for doing this…we got your number….even when you persist in screaming out….your head is stuffed up your beehind as far as the idiots who sign your paycheck…

      and we laugh…your stupidity…so backwoods and unexeptionable…maybe you should tatoo the word “MENTAL MIDGET” on your forehead…its not too late…

  9. Downer August 26, 2011 / 3:17 pm

    Only 11,062 parasites cut? Maybe that’s just for August.

    • neocon1 August 26, 2011 / 4:53 pm

      Illegal Immigration Costs California Over Ten Billion Annually
      State’s “cheap labor” costs average household $1,183 a year

      $2.2 trillion illegal alien
      taxpayer sticker shock
      2/3 of immigrants cost Americans
      $22,449 a year, shows new study

      WASHINGTON – Someone has finally fixed an approximate taxpayer cost of between 12 million and 15 million illegal aliens residing in the U.S.

      A new study by the Heritage Foundation’s Robert Rector found a household headed by an individual without a high school education, including about two-thirds of illegal aliens, costs U.S. taxpayers more than $32,000 in federal, state and local benefits. That same family contributes an average of $9,000 a year in taxes, resulting in a net tax burden of $22,449 each year.

      Over the course of the household’s lifetime that tax burden translates to $1.1 million.

      • neocon1 August 26, 2011 / 4:56 pm

        U.S. Spending At Least $18.6 Million Per Day to Incarcerate Illegal Aliens; More Than 195,000 Illegal Aliens Deported in Fiscal 2010 Had Committed Crimes Here
        Friday, October 08, 2010
        By Edwin Mora

        More than 11,000 gang members and their associates have been arrested over a three-year period thanks to a crackdown in immigration enforcement by the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

        (CNSNews.com) – U.S. taxpayers are spending at least $18.6 million per day to house an estimated 300,000 to 450,000 illegal immigrants who are incarcerated and eligible for deportation from the United States, according to data from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and the Department of Justice (DOJ).

      • neocon1 August 26, 2011 / 4:57 pm

        Educating Children Of Illegal Aliens Costs $28.6 Billion Per Year

        The latest estimated costs of educating the children of illegal aliens is out and it is set at an astounding $28.6 billion per year to the taxpayers of the United States. The report Breaking the Piggy Bank: How Illegal Immigration is Sending Schools Into the Red by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) does not include additional costs such as free and low cost lunches or English as a Second Language (ESL) costs.

      • js August 26, 2011 / 5:52 pm

        so what…the treasury is borrowing money from china to finance the la raza invasion of the SE USA…are they going to sign a new treaty with mexico so we dont have to fight a war when they demand secession?

    • neocon1 August 26, 2011 / 4:58 pm

      and that is not including the US innercitys……
      we are broke why??

      OH yessss “tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires”….got it.

  10. casper August 26, 2011 / 6:21 pm

    I’m all for workfare instead of welfare. The problem s there aren’t many jobs available and the ones out there don’t pay enough to support a family. If you want to get rid of welfare, then we need to find places for people to work.

    • Count d'Haricots August 26, 2011 / 6:31 pm


      Welcome to our side.

      The government isn’t in the “jobs” business; the private sector is in the “jobs” business.

      Pro-growth policies, low taxes, streamline regulations; turn loose the wheels of industry, give incentives for innovation and success.

      Want to eliminate the drug lords? Put federal government in charge of drug dealers; they’ll be out of business in a year.

      • casper August 26, 2011 / 6:38 pm

        “The government isn’t in the “jobs” business; the private sector is in the “jobs” business. ”

        The private sector is failing. In spite of the fact corporations are siting on tons of money, they aren’t adding a lot of jobs and most of the ones they are offering are low paying with no benefits.

      • Count d'Haricots August 26, 2011 / 6:44 pm

        And why is that? Could it be that business isn’t in business to support government? Haven’t we been told that investors aren’t investing and businesses aren’t expanding because of “uncertainty” in regulation, taxation and market?

        Give them something to be sure of! Tax breaks and incentives.

    • Count d'Haricots August 26, 2011 / 6:34 pm

      Remember this from December 1996?

      Clinton hails 13 percent drop in welfare rolls
      WASHINGTON CNN President Clinton said Saturday that his efforts to end welfare as we know it were paying off, resulting in the biggest drop in welfare rolls in history.

      In his weekly radio address, Clinton told Americans, We were determined to move millions from welfare to work, and our strategy has worked. I am pleased to announce today thatthere are now 2.1 million fewer people on welfare than on theday I took the oath of office.

      That is the biggest drop in welfare rolls in history, Clinton said.

      • Count d'Haricots August 26, 2011 / 6:38 pm

        From the same report;

        Clinton urged businesses to create 1 million jobs and to hire people who currently receive welfare.

        Together we can make the permanent underclass a thing of the past, he said. Every organization which employs people should consider hiring someone off welfare, and every state ought to give those organizations the incentives to do so.

        During his reelection campaign, Clinton proposed 3.43 billion in tax cuts for employers that hire people on welfare. He also said localities should get 3 billion to work with businesses to create job opportunities for people on welfare.

      • casper August 26, 2011 / 6:41 pm

        “During his reelection campaign, Clinton proposed 3.43 billion in tax cuts for employers that hire people on welfare”

        I would be fine with that now, but I don’t see either party pushing it.

      • casper August 26, 2011 / 6:42 pm

        And if I remember corrrectly, income tax rates were a higher then.

      • Count d'Haricots August 26, 2011 / 6:46 pm

        Tax rates were higher then, but fewer people are paying those rates now so those that do pay end up paying more, Especialy in taxes that didn’t exist a generation ago.

  11. casper August 26, 2011 / 6:49 pm

    Count d’Haricots August 26, 2011 at 6:46 pm #

    “Tax rates were higher then, but fewer people are paying those rates now so those that do pay end up paying more, Especialy in taxes that didn’t exist a generation ago.”

    That makes no sense. What taxes are you talking about?

    • Count d'Haricots August 26, 2011 / 7:01 pm


      I really don’t feel like covering this again.

      I’ve been down this road so many time here; more of our income is taxable so the rates are lower but I pay more in Federal Income tax on the same income than in 1970s before the pre-tax after-tax deductions were instituted. From SChip to excise and inheritance, from local and state and every other jurisdiction more of our funds now fall under the unprotected realm than did during the Reagan years.

  12. casper August 26, 2011 / 7:20 pm

    I’d love to see some figures on that. Inheritance taxes for instance, are at a lower rate with a much higher exclusion amount than in the seventies or 90s.

    • Count d'Haricots August 26, 2011 / 7:42 pm

      Interesting you’d select the 1970s and 1990s.

      Because during the later Reagan years, inheritance tax was calculated as other income; 28% with annuity exceptions, in the early Reagan years it was 23.7% with a 60%exclusion; 1960s it was 27.5%; in the 1950s it was 25% as of 2011 the top rate is 35% for estates over $500,000 with initial taxation @ $155, 800.

      Here’s a simple test; do you understand value added tax?

      If so you recognize that as items are taxed during the process by manufacturers, suppliers and retailers are cumulative and passed to the consumer. The US has the highest corporate tax in the world, so those taxes are paid by consumers.

      In any event, the issue is encouraging private businesses to grow and hire more people. It is possible but not by Keynesian spendthrift giveaways.

  13. casper August 26, 2011 / 7:41 pm

    Regardless, here is the point I would like to make. If you are going to get rid of welfare, then we need to find jobs for those who otherwise don’t have enough to get by on. I’m guessing that most people would be willing to work for various benefits if given the opportunity. Whether the jobs come from the public or private sector doesn’t matter, as long as there are jobs.

    • Count d'Haricots August 26, 2011 / 7:44 pm

      But Casper, don’t you see? It does matter!

      Growth in public sector jobs isn’t sustainable and it robs growth in private sector jobs.

      Alway has, always will. Keynesian economics is a sham.

      • casper August 26, 2011 / 7:58 pm

        The problem is lack of jobs. If you don’t want the government to provide them, then find a way to get the private sector to provide them. No excuses. The top 1% have a bigger share of the nation’s wealth in the history of our country. They aren’t creating jobs and there isn’t any reason to assume they will.

      • Count d'Haricots August 26, 2011 / 8:06 pm

        We’ve been here before;

        And why is that? Could it be that business isn’t in business to support government? Haven’t we been told that investors aren’t investing and businesses aren’t expanding because of “uncertainty” in regulation, taxation and market?

        Give them something to be sure of! Tax breaks and incentives.

        Casper, the government can’t force private industry to make profit, expand business, or hire people All they can do is encourage it.

  14. casper August 26, 2011 / 7:45 pm

    “The US has the highest corporate tax in the world, so those taxes are paid by consumers.”

    And yet many of our largest corporations pay little or no taxes.

    • Count d'Haricots August 26, 2011 / 7:53 pm

      Many, yes. But, only the ones donating to democrats.

      But, I generally agree with you that there needs to be jobs available, and there need to be incentive for the recipients to get off the dole and get that job.

      Someday we should discuss my experiences here in California with the massive welfare class that absolutely refuse to take available work when offered.

      You are aware that my wife is an advocate for disabled persons? All too often the deadbeat public-dole relatives crawl out of their hovels and away from reality TV long enough to try to get control of my wife’s client’s meager disability checks. Every scam known to man is perpetrated on these individuals because Social Security is an endless money river that uncle Harry and cousin Judy can dip their greedy hands into.

      Hang around the Welfare office sometime, it’s an eye-opener.

  15. casper August 26, 2011 / 8:10 pm

    Count d’Haricots August 26, 2011 at 7:53 pm #

    “Many, yes. But, only the ones donating to democrats.”

    Are you saying that none of the following donate to Republicans?

    1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings. (Source: Exxon Mobil’s 2009 shareholder report filed with the SEC here.)

    2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion. (Source: Forbes.com here, ProPublica here and Treasury here.)

    3) General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States over the past five years and, thanks to clever use of loopholes, paid no taxes.(Source: Citizens for Tax Justice here and The New York Times here. Note: despite rumors to the contrary, the Times has stood by its story.)

    4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009. (Source: See 2009 Chevron annual report here. Note 15 on page FS-46 of this report shows a U.S. federal income tax liability of $128 million, but that it was able to defer $147 million for a U.S. federal income tax liability of negative $19 million.)

    5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year. (Source: Paul Buchheit, professor, DePaul University, here and Citizens for Tax Justice here.)

    6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year, received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction. (Source: the company’s 2009 annual report, pg. 112, here.)

    7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department. (Source: Bloomberg News here, ProPublica here, Treasury Department here.)

    8) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury. (Source: Paul Buchheit, professor, DePaul University, here, ProPublica here, Treasury Department here.)

    9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2006 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction. (Sources: Profits can be found here. The deduction can be found on the company’s 2010 SEC 10-K report to shareholders on 2009 finances, pg. 127, here.)

    10) Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits over the past five years, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent. (Source: The New York Times here.)

    “Someday we should discuss my experiences here in California with the massive welfare class that absolutely refuse to take available work when offered.”

    I have no sympathy for people that refuse to work, as long as there are decent jobs available.

    “You are aware that my wife is an advocate for disabled persons?”

    No I wasn’t. Good for her.

    ‘All too often the deadbeat public-dole relatives crawl out of their hovels and away from reality TV long enough to try to get control of my wife’s client’s meager disability checks. Every scam known to man is perpetrated on these individuals because Social Security is an endless money river that uncle Harry and cousin Judy can dip their greedy hands into.”

    I’d love to see people like that in jail along with the bankers that tanked our economy. Sadly, rich criminals rarely go to jail.

    “Hang around the Welfare office sometime, it’s an eye-opener.”

    40 to 50 percent of the students I’ve worked with over the years have been on some kind of public assistance. While some of their parents are bums, most aren’t and if given a chance will do anything they can to raise their children right.

    • Count d'Haricots August 26, 2011 / 8:19 pm

      You’re flying far afield now.
      A) I was making a joke, sheesh!
      B) Your list is mostly democrat donors
      C) I was making a joke and
      D) The list is limited to certain types of taxes paid or not paid; it’s not all inclusive.

      I’d love to see people like that in jail along with the bankers that tanked our economy. Sadly, rich criminals rarely go to jail.
      Please, you sound like Jed Clampett; “Gall darn them rich bankers and revey-newers!” or Henry Ford “Damn Jew Bankers.”
      Worry about the things we can change, not things we can’t. Have a great weekend. I’m outta here.

  16. dbschmidt August 26, 2011 / 10:30 pm


    Almost everyone one of them corporations are on the Obama dole with the CEO of GE being a trusted “adviser.” I am for a flat tax which may or may not have saved my job with the ability of US companies returning money from overseas without the 35% tax rate.

    Government is not the answer and more than often government is the problem because of regulation and taxes. I have found out how bad with the thought of opening a small business in this environment after losing my current job.

    I would love to see not only the business owners but Representatives and Senators (even the President) be held to the same standards they enforce including becoming “early adopters” of any and all legislation.

    But if we are going after them nasty oil & energy companies–why not Apple which took over not only the #1 spot but has more reserve cash on hand that the US itself–it should be forced to create 15-20-50 million jobs? Spend its wealth to help out people that never finished attendance in the “free” public school let alone went on to incur debt to further their personal education and better themselves? How about Microsoft with a profit margin well over 10 times that of Exxon-Mobil, BofA, and GE combined?

    Are you willing to forgive the $50K + I spent over the years for my degrees to help someone who decided to smoke crack and drop out of the 8th grade–we should be equal? Think about that before you need to pay you next doctor bill because it could be “Pedro the pan-handler” aka “Doctor Pete” under your belief system.

    [Sorry about the constant references to Doctors but I have double hip surgery on the brain.]

    You are not a dumb person but you should realize that holding someone’s hand can only happen for so long. I try not to give up on anyone but I have learned that you will never be able to help someone that will never help themselves. I really think you are that smart at least.

    • casper August 26, 2011 / 11:47 pm

      “Almost everyone one of them corporations are on the Obama dole with the CEO of GE being a trusted “adviser.”

      Outside of GE, I would say most of the ones I listed donate far more to the GOP.

      “I would love to see not only the business owners but Representatives and Senators (even the President) be held to the same standards they enforce including becoming “early adopters” of any and all legislation.”

      I agree.

      “But if we are going after them nasty oil & energy companies–why not Apple which took over not only the #1 spot but has more reserve cash on hand that the US itself–it should be forced to create 15-20-50 million jobs?”

      I agree again.

      “How about Microsoft with a profit margin well over 10 times that of Exxon-Mobil, BofA, and GE combined?”

      Again I agree.

      “You are not a dumb person but you should realize that holding someone’s hand can only happen for so long.”

      I’m not advocating holding someone’s hand. I’m advocating giving someone an opportunity.

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