Debate – Open Thread

Really looking forward to the debate tonight. My hope is that Romney ties Obama’s policies to the current economic malaise, ie; the failed stimulus, the denial of the keystone pipeline, the lack of domestic energy exploration and development as they relate to the high gas prices which hurt the lower and middle classes, the rising insurance premiums due to Obamacare, the continued high unemployment due to any real effort spent on regulatory reform or negotiating trade agreements, the increased tensions in the Middle East and murder of our Libyan Ambassador due to misguided and weak foreign policy, etc. etc.

In addition to that, I want Romney to lay out his vision of opportunity and growth, where we tap into our domestic energy reserves, lower corporate tax rates, encourage expansion, create well paying jobs for everyone, broaden the tax base, lower personal tax rates so more people can keep more of their own money, and create an economy where everyone becomes a victor, and not victims. Should be a fun night.

UPDATE, by Mark Noonan:  Excellent article about recent polling done in the “battleground” States.  Essentially it confirms what I already know:  it is Obama who is behind and has to land a knock-out punch tonight.

UPDATE II, by Mark Noonan: Final Thoughts

Clearly Romney was in control through the whole debate.  You might be thinking that Romney actually talked more than Obama but from what I’ve read, Obama actually talked about 4 minutes longer than Romney.  That just shows how good Romney was.

Will it change things?  Not actually – you see, in my view, Romney came in to the debate ahead in the race.  Even some of the (still badly skewed) polls are showing a shift to Romney, but the basic facts of the race have not changed.  We’ve got a lousy economy, a reduced position in the world and a President clearly out of his depth – and there is no real argument Obama can make to convince a majority to award him four more years based upon his record.  Obama had to come out swinging tonight with a clear, rational reason why no matter how bad he is, Romney is worse.  Obama didn’t make that case – and Romney did all that was ever required of him:  present a credible alternative to Obama.

Romney can still blow it in the final debates.  Obama can still land a heavy blow.  Events can still develope which help or hinder either candidate.  Both men can win on November 6th.  My view remains:  Romney is likely to win, and may end up winning by a substantial margin.  But it ain’t over until its over.


58 thoughts on “Debate – Open Thread

  1. Retired Spook October 3, 2012 / 7:49 pm

    IMO, two things that Romney needs to do tonight to turn the tide of this race is (1) dispel the Dem claim that the policies he advocates are just more of the same Bush policies that got us into the current economic mess, and (2) expand on the 47% comment to explain that one of his main goals as President would be to reduce the number of people who are dependent on the government. I hope he uses Obama’s own words against him: that he (Obama) wants the working poor to become a “majority [Democrat] coalition”.

    • Amazona October 3, 2012 / 7:58 pm

      I agree, particularly on your second point. I don’t know if Obama’s statement was scripted or another of his spontaneous blurtings of his true political agenda, like the Joe the Plumber comment was, but this needs to be spotlighted.

      The man actually said he WANTS a nation with more than half of the people either dependent on the government or nearly so (the working poor) and this should be a major talking point.

    • neocon1 October 3, 2012 / 7:58 pm

      I think a hard comment of a party that BOO’s God and Israel.

      • neocon1 October 3, 2012 / 8:08 pm


        Another Unearthed Speech? 2002 Clip Shows Obama Railing Against Rich People Who Inflict ‘Violence’ By Using ‘Accountants and Tax Loopholes’

        “I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but rich people are all for nonviolence. Why wouldn’t they be? They’ve got what they want.”

        Now IF they could only find that BC thingy.
        maybe it is in a shoe box with F.M.D.’s nude pics?

    • Amazona October 3, 2012 / 8:02 pm

      “Republicans trumpeted news Tuesday of a 1998 audiotape showing future president Barack Obama calling for progressives to use a “trick” to enable unpopular economic redistribution. In that speech, Obama also used some of the same language he’s adopted for the 2012 campaign.

      Amid public distrust, “the trick is figuring out how do we structure government systems that pool resources and hence facilitate some redistribution? — because I actually believe in redistribution, at least at a certain level to make to make sure everybody has got a shot,” Obama told a Loyola University audience in October 1998.

      Since his ascent to the White House, he has followed a strategy of “pooling” taxpayer dollars into projects, including green-tech programs and cheap mortgages, that promote redistribution, while hiding the costs and risks.”

      Read more:

  2. M. Noonan October 3, 2012 / 8:19 pm

    Read an article today stating that Obama is running campaign ads in Oregon. Obama won the state in 2008 by 16.3 percentage points. Now, the story is that Obama is worried that the Libertarian party candidate might siphon off enough votes to throw the state to Romney. Which is a reasonable fear – if you’re in desperate danger of losing. If Obama was cruising to the win the MSM says he is, then Oregon would be in no danger no matter what the Libertarian party candidate was doing.

    Just another sign the the MSM narrative is laughably false. To be sure, we have to expect that Obama will win Oregon…but that he has to fight for it means that any state he won by 10 or less in 2008 is probably already gone and any state he won by 15 or less is “toss up”.

    • M. Noonan October 3, 2012 / 9:31 pm

      Do you mean Obama? Because if Romney gets 280, I’m happy with the result.

      As it is, right now I figure the low end for Romney is 301.

      Oh, and as for the bet – if you merely tell me you’ve given $20 to Missionaries of the Poor, I’ll match and and we’ll both feel better.

    • M. Noonan October 3, 2012 / 9:52 pm



      ..the GOP cannot count on winning GW’s States from 2004 – there will be battles where none thought to find any. To put it into easy terms – we could have Obama losing Pennsylvania and still getting elected Pres.ident; we could have McCain losing Ohio and still getting elected President. These are unthinkable scenarios in relation to 2000 and 2004, but they could be very realistic in 2008…

      You might be exaggerating…

      • Amazona October 3, 2012 / 10:08 pm

        Obama is floundering in spite of a gimme every now and then from the moderator.

        I love watching Barry sulk when he gets slapped around. His big grin is phonier and phonier and he has had a couple of catty remarks that do him no favors. That smirky “gotcha” thing that irks us so much here is becoming more and more a part of his schtick.

      • Amazona October 3, 2012 / 10:48 pm

        Aside from the details I think it can be summed up as Romney being far more presidential. Obama came across as a peevish amateur, and every time one of his fabrications got slapped down he got more and more peevish. He just kept coming back with his pathetic “$5 T tax cut” and every time Romney stepped in and took him to task on it—but he was so locked into it, he couldn’t help himself and had to keep repeating it because he had committed to it and evidently practiced it a lot. It was as close as he could get to mindlessly reading a teleprompter.

      • Cluster October 3, 2012 / 10:56 pm

        It wasn’t even a contest. Romney was in command of facts, brilliantly answered the role of government, clearly showed his compassionate side, had a great sense of humor, and looked PRESIDENTIAL. In fact, Romney came across as Reaganesque.

      • neocon1 October 4, 2012 / 4:55 am


        Drudge UH O

        ROUND WON: Romney Seized Offense in Debate…
        You Were Fighting For Obamacare, Not Jobs…
        ‘The Path We’re Taking Is Not Working’…
        FOURNIER: Cursed Obama Falls…
        MSNBC MATTHEWS: ‘What Was He Doing!’
        Cutter takes swipe at Lehrer…
        Carville: ‘Romney came with a chainsaw’…
        Andrew Sullivan: ‘This was a disaster’…

        HURT: Obama the debater: Making Jimmy Carter look awesome

        Michael Moore: ‘This is what happens when u pick John Kerry as your debate coach’…

        Lost, bewildered without teleprompter…


        ROMNEY “debates” empty suit in an empty chair……ROTFLMAO 🙂 🙂 🙂

        lemonaid stand? errr ahhh what lemonaid stand …. EXACTALLY


      • neocon1 October 4, 2012 / 4:59 am

        Meanwhile back at the Ranch……………

        REPORT: Turkey opens fire on Syria…

        Hezbollah men killed in Lebanon blasts… Sensitive documents left behind at American mission in Libya…

        Congress Calls first Hearings…

        Obama appoints wife of UNIVISION owner to diplomatic post..

        (Ooh Noos) President’s re-elect campaign gives Florida voters bad info about early voting…

      • neocon1 October 4, 2012 / 5:11 am

        Woo Hoo

        Ochimpy. biotch slapped by a BIG Mitt…….LOL

        Landslide: 67 Percent of Registered Voters Say Romney Won Debate, ***CNN Poll*** Reveals
        Obama: 25 percent

        (lil wet leg chrissie) = “‘What Was Romney Doing? He Was Winning!’: Angry Chris Matthews Unloads on Obama Post-Debate

        “I don’t know what he was doing out there. … Obama should watch MSNBC.”

        Krauthammer on Presidential Debate: ‘Romney Won and Romney Won Big’
        “All of a sudden, this Romney shows up, and he’s knowledgeable, he’s confident, and he’s got nerve.”

        Palin: “I ***almost*** felt sorry for (Obama).”

        McCain: “If that debate was a fight they would’ve stopped it!”

        On Zinger Scorecard, Romney Wins Debate By a Mile

        Van Jones: ‘Romney Was Able to Out-Obama Obama’ in Debate
        “I think he took Romney too lightly. I think he did not expect Romney to be able to throw that kind of heat.”


      • neocon1 October 4, 2012 / 5:22 am

        the REAL MORON………….

      • neocon1 October 4, 2012 / 5:46 am

        Bwaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

        Suddenly the Democrats took to the airwaves and twitter to rail against the polls oversampling Republicans and being too heavily skewed, too instant to be meaningful, and clearly not an accurate statistical sample of anything.

        About the same time Barack Obama’s campaign team was melting down on television, the campaign sent out an email that did not even mention the Presidential debate. It just wanted more money.

        The debate was so bad for Barack Obama I expect Eric Holder to send Jim Lehrer to GTMO. Barack Obama suddenly agrees with Republicans on defunding PBS.

        Without his precious TelePrompTer to feed his Gollumesque addiction to its illuminated, precious words, the President fell flat. Instead of John Kerry for a debate partner, the President should have just gone through airport security a few times or embraced BOHICA as a debate preparation strategy.


        NOTE to all lib families

        HIDE; the pills, guns, knives and ropes, and lock the windows on high buildings………ROTFLMFAO………..

      • neocon1 October 4, 2012 / 5:50 am

        The CHAMP knocks out the CHUMP!

      • neocon1 October 4, 2012 / 5:58 am

        Presidential debate 2012: Obama snoozes and loses
        Politico ^ | Oct. 4, 2012 | Roger Simon

        DENVER – One word of advice for Barack Obama before his next debate: Caffeine.

        I had a Pepsi right before the debate started Wednesday night and was tingly for the next 90 minutes.

        President Obama looked like someone had slipped him an Ambien.

        The first presidential debate of 2012 took place at the University of Denver and was between Obama and Mitt Romney. But only Romney showed up.

      • neocon1 October 4, 2012 / 6:13 am


      • neocon1 October 4, 2012 / 6:19 am


        Dennis Miller
        Obama better hope a Kicked Ass is covered under Obamacare.

      • Cluster October 4, 2012 / 7:23 am

        For those of you confused liberals out there, and that would include nearly every liberal, the following is a tweet from who all of you like to hold up as a “conservative”

        10.31 pm. Look: you know how much I love the guy, and you know how much of a high information viewer I am, and I can see the logic of some of Obama’s meandering, weak, professorial arguments. But this was a disaster for the president for the key people he needs to reach, and his effete, wonkish lectures may have jolted a lot of independents into giving Romney a second look. – Andrew Sullivan

        Andrew the “conservative” support the far left democrat vs the moderate conservative. Maybe it’s time to realize that Sullivan is a a fraud and a moron.

      • neocon1 October 4, 2012 / 11:36 am

        Maybe it’s time to realize that Sullivan is a a fraud and a moron.

        not that there is anything wrong with that 🙂

  3. Cluster October 3, 2012 / 8:19 pm

    I think Romney needs to be more specifc about his 5 point plan to get this economy going, particularly on his plan to aggressively go after domestic energy reserves and how that equates to good paying jobs, lower gas and energy prices and less government dependence.

  4. Cluster October 3, 2012 / 8:47 pm

    Priceless gem courtesy of Dennis Miller – “Hugo Chavez has said that he would vote for Obama, and if Democrats have their way in terms of voter ID laws, he actually could vote for Obama”

    • Cluster October 3, 2012 / 9:30 pm

      There’s no acceptable level of voter fraud.

  5. baileyoski October 3, 2012 / 9:16 pm

    Are these “debates” really relevant? Does anyone really believe that these things actually make a difference? Besides the MSM slanting the debates to the Dem candidate, it seems to me that people who tune in and watch already have their minds made up and nothing either candidate says will cause anyone to change their vote. (Votes if you are in Chicago) Frankly, I view these things as a total waste of airtime.

  6. Cluster October 3, 2012 / 9:24 pm

    Romney just schooled Obama in segment 1. Obama keeps wanting to run on Clinton’s record, not his own.

    • Amazona October 3, 2012 / 10:51 pm

      Cluster, I picked up on that, too—–he was actually trying to run on what had happened in the country in the 90’s. Too funny.

    • Retired Spook October 3, 2012 / 11:30 pm

      Cluster, too bad Romney didn’t ask Obama why the policies worked for Clinton, but don’t seem to be working for Obama.

  7. Cluster October 3, 2012 / 9:29 pm

    Romney is on fire.

  8. Cluster October 3, 2012 / 9:39 pm

    This is getting to be embarrassing for Obama. Great line from Romney – you don’t just pick winners and losers, you pick losers.

    • M. Noonan October 3, 2012 / 9:42 pm

      I’m actually worried that Romney is shredding Obama so badly that people will start to feel sorry for him.

      • Retired Spook October 3, 2012 / 10:51 pm

        Even Bill Mahr said Obama looked like he needed his teleprompter — OUCH, that’s gotta leave a mark.

    • Retired Spook October 3, 2012 / 10:57 pm

      you don’t just pick winners and losers, you pick losers.

      Best line of the night, IMO, and said in a smooth, seamless, non-contrived way. And equating the $90 billion in giveaways to green energy as being 50 years worth of tax breaks for the oil and gas industry was very effective.

  9. Concerned Dad October 3, 2012 / 9:45 pm

    Romney is doing what he has to. He keeps hammering on the president and Obama just seems lost when it comes to the economy.

    • Retired Spook October 3, 2012 / 11:33 pm

      the president and Obama just seems lost when it comes to the economy.

      It not only showed in his debate performance, it shows in spades in his record.

  10. dbschmidt October 3, 2012 / 10:11 pm

    Slightly pissed that Romney did not make the biggest distinction between RomneyCare (in Mass) versus ObamaCare (nationwide) being States Rights– just changed media so I might have missed it. Then again, have to love Obama speaking about reforming Wall St.

  11. dbschmidt October 3, 2012 / 10:15 pm

    Covered the 10th Amendment in the last segment and now Barky is in uncharted territory –what is Government’s role. Expecting another major fail.

  12. dbschmidt October 3, 2012 / 10:16 pm

    Shoring up his creds in the American dream.

  13. Count d'Haricots October 3, 2012 / 10:18 pm

    If this continues Mitt might be charged with a hate crime.

    • Cluster October 3, 2012 / 10:21 pm


  14. Cluster October 3, 2012 / 10:20 pm

    Romney is doing so good, that Jim Leherer is starting to take his side.

  15. Count d'Haricots October 3, 2012 / 10:32 pm

    Did he just say “Everybody gets a fair share” ???

    OMG! Circle the drain.

    • Amazona October 3, 2012 / 10:49 pm

      “Circle the drain.”

      Be careful—-a mention of a drain might give freakzo the giggles again.

  16. js02 October 3, 2012 / 10:36 pm

    i would say romeny would score 75% to obama 25%…

  17. Jeremiah October 3, 2012 / 10:44 pm

    Romney was super sharp in tonight’s debate.

    Great job, Mitt!!

  18. Rightlane October 3, 2012 / 10:52 pm

    Nothing drastically earth shattering here. Romney did a good job pointing Obama’s habitual use of straw man in his misrepresenting Romney’s positions. Of course, that’s standard fare for this President. Romney came off as quite knowledgeable, especially on the economy and I thought gave more detail on how to approach various problems than Obama ever has. How much detail can give you give in two minutes? Obama look unconformable and the phony smile does not serve him well. Romney won the night, but never landed a knockout blow. It is a split decision tonight folks.

    • J. R. Babcock October 3, 2012 / 11:01 pm

      and I thought gave more detail on how to approach various problems than Obama ever has.

      I thought Obama’s constant digs on the lack of details from Romney was kind of laughable coming from someone who ran in 2008 on hope & change.

      • Amazona October 3, 2012 / 11:05 pm

        Great point, J.R.

    • Amazona October 3, 2012 / 11:07 pm

      I think if Romney won the night, it was not a split decision. I can’t think of a single point Obama won. He was cowed, he was nervous, he was peevish, he was defensive, and he was stuck on repeating what he had evidently been told was a major point, the claim of $5T in tax cuts even when he kept getting slapped down when he said it.

      • Amazona October 3, 2012 / 11:08 pm

        If Obama is this cowed in a debate, can you imagine him being challenged by a leader of an opposing nation?

  19. J. R. Babcock October 3, 2012 / 10:59 pm

    Prior to the debate, the one word that you kept hearing from pundit after pundit was that Romney needed to show some PASSION. He did, and without being nasty or overbearing.

  20. bozo October 4, 2012 / 4:32 am

    That was great. Fox News was a bit brutal on Mittens and his so-called “fact,” though. Romney could certainly restore the “bully” to the pulpit, though.

    • Cluster October 4, 2012 / 7:12 am


      Those are the same Moody’s economists that said that Obama’s stimulus would ignite the economy and keep unemployment under 8%. I think we all know how bad their “predictions” are.

      I think I will stick with the plans of the former CEO who has actually been in the trenches and walked the walk and not the economists stuck in the analytical think tank.

    • Amazona October 4, 2012 / 11:39 am

      Awwww, did our freaky clown think wittow Bawwy got BULLIED!! Awwwwww.

      I guess he wants another four years of a wimp, who never gets any closer to forcefulness that his Mad Daddy scowl or a full-fledged temper tantrum.

      As I said in another post, if this is how Barry falls apart when another American is challenging him, just imagine what a lump of wet tissue he is when he comes head to head with a real adversary. (OK, I am paraphrasing myself.) No wonder he whispers a secret message to Putin, that he needs more time to be able to be more flexible—Putin is a scary guy, you don’t want HIM in your face! If a Mormon can get him this cowed, you can imagine how he’d fold in a real confrontation. You know, the kind of thing world leaders have to deal with, in defense and support of the nation they are sworn to uphold and defend.

      Watching him last night made it clear why he bows, why he scrapes, why he grovels, why he apologizes, why his method of choice for representing America worldwide is appeasement.

      And your link brings me to another observation I have made over the years since the RRL mouthpieces have decided a good way to distract from their failures is to attack Fox as, among other things, “the mouthpiece of the Republican Party”. We keep explaining that Fox just presents both sides, and you lemmings just keep squealing that it is nothing more than a Right-wing shill.

      And then you turn around and link to a comment on a Fox affiliate which begins: The Obama camp released the following Fact Check of Mitt Romney’s ’5 Point Economic Plan’ during the Denver presidential debate:

      And you can’t even see the irony. After linking to something on Fox that originates in the Obama camp, which trashes Romney, you will no doubt spin and soon post another whine about Fox being so partisan.

      • bozo October 4, 2012 / 10:08 pm

        The disregard for Lehrer was kinda embarrassing. Watch the after-debate snubbing by Romney. Too bad. But, it’s a new, louder, angrier millennium, and the integrity of old-school journalists is a thing to mock, not respect.

        Times change.

      • Amazona October 4, 2012 / 11:51 pm

        Awwww, an apologist for the Great Divider is now whimpering that this is “… a new, louder, angrier millennium…”

        Wasn’t freaky one of the howling mob who declared George Zimmerman not only guilty of murder but guilty of “hate crime” race based murder?

        If this is truly “a new, louder, angrier millennium” and freaky is offended by this, then perhaps he can stand up for more civility and kindness, and stop apologizing for an administration that has promoted racial distrust and hostility, identified a political movement as “domestic terrorists”, warned Americans to be wary of returning veterans, engaged nonstop in the Politics of Personal Destruction, and targeted fellow Americans for their religious and political beliefs.

        As for fretting about mocking the integrity of old school journalists, well, this “old school journalist” did not earn a lot of respect. His bias was so blatant he didn’t even try to hide it, as he did his best to salvage the disaster that was Obama’s debate.

        And perhaps the RRL and its mindless minions could back off, just a little, in their/your incessant quest for finding insult in every little thing.

        Of course that would mean either shutting up or actually discussing politics, the blueprint for how best to govern the nation, and we know by now that this is territory you and people like you avoid at all costs.

    • neocon1 October 4, 2012 / 8:45 pm


      you can only “bully” a wimp…..

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