Is Obama Serious About Avoiding the “Fiscal Cliff”?

There is an argument to be made that he doesn’t care if it does happen – from Zero Hedge:

…Here is why our leader has no desire to settle this affair before it gets put into effect.

  • It will impose tax hikes on everyone who pays federal income taxes (not just the 2%)
  • It will cut entitlements without his having to support the actions
  • It will reduce defense spending without him ‘looking soft’ as Commander-in-Chief
  • It will end the ‘Bush Tax Cuts’ automatically
  • It will probably slow economic growth (GDP)

Why would our President want these things to take place?

  • He would get the extra tax revenues to use without being blamed
  • He could not be held accountable for breaking his ubiquitous pledge to never raise taxes on the bottom 98%
  • He would not be the one cutting entitlements, it would be ‘out of his hands’
  • He prefers to cut defense spending rather than social programs
  • He can later ‘give back’ tax cuts to the Middle Class
  • He can then call them the ‘Obama Tax Cuts’
  • He can blame those damn ‘Obstructionist Republicans’ for the next recession

For B-Rock the Sequestration is a ‘Dream Act’ to accomplish many of his goals and dreams without any accountability. Every negative can be blamed on the Republicans even as he allows his stated preferences to be overridden by the forced actions imposed on him…

There is some sense to that.  Especially if, as I believe, we’re heading in to recession, anyway.  Perhaps Obama’s number-crunchers have told him that a period of recession in 2013 is unavoidable, cliff or no, and so might as well make certain a crisis never goes to waste.  Deadlock now means the Bush tax are gone for good, defense is heavily cut and we actually do reduce our deficit all without Obama taking the blame.  You know the MSM would spend the next year blaming every last thing on the GOP.

We’ll have to see, of course – if Obama actually does give in some meaningful way on tax and entitlement reform then we’ll know he’s interested in the fate of the nation.  If he stands firm and won’t do anything unless the GOP agrees to specifically increase tax rates without any serious entitlement or tax reform, then we’ll know he’s ok with us going over the cliff.

41 thoughts on “Is Obama Serious About Avoiding the “Fiscal Cliff”?

  1. GMB November 9, 2012 / 10:17 pm

    “then we’ll know he’s ok with us going over the cliff.”

    What did you think he meant when he said he to “fundamentally transform America” Everything the man has done or said since he took office has had one and only one aim.

    To knock this country down as far as he can.

    Maybe you should advise the leaders the of the opposition party to, I don’t know, maybe oppose him? Would that be to much to ask. Knock barky all you want but the repubs control the money. They could shut off the spigot.

    Or you could write a sternly worded letter to the editor of your local newspaper. That would most likely be more effective than relying on the repub leaders.

    • M. Noonan November 10, 2012 / 12:41 am


      Its a dicey proposition and I don’t envy the GOP leaders of the House – they have to show the base that they are going toe to to with Obama while also, at the same time, showing the American people they are willing to work out a reasonable compromise. And, remember, the MSM will stay on Obama’s side – any failure to resolve the cliff will be placed squarely on the GOP’s head.

      Of course, it might still work out better to let it be placed there – better, in the long run, that we hold to core principals even at electoral cost. But its a fine line and where to draw it remains to be seen.

      • GMB November 10, 2012 / 9:42 am

        ” any failure to resolve the cliff will be placed squarely on the GOP’s head. ”

        If you are so concerned with the media and their blame game, I do believe it is time for the gop just to give up. Newsflash. The msm has hated conservatives for over 50 years. They are not going to start loving conservatives anytime soon. It is too late for that.

        When, not if, they get their way B4V will disappear. Everything you say will be labeled hate speech and you will get shut down. You and every other conservative writer will be gone, done for.

        It is time to quit worry about being blamed for whatever. If the opposition won’t oppose, is there any point blathering about the problems this nation is going through?

        Do we have to suffer through four more years of how bad barky is when we all know what is coming? Do we have to suffer four more years of the obvious being stated?

        ” But its a fine line and where to draw it remains to be seen.

        Harry Reid has drawn the line 18.7 trillion dollars. That is not enough for you?

  2. Retired Spook November 10, 2012 / 12:34 am

    Deadlock now means the Bush tax are gone for good, defense is heavily cut and we actually do reduce our deficit all without Obama taking the blame.

    It all depends on how extensive the mass firings are. If enough people lose their jobs and get 99 weeks of unemployment, no amount of spending cuts is going to offset the loss in federal tax revenue.

    • M. Noonan November 10, 2012 / 12:43 am


      Personally, I think we’re already back in recession – certainly the revenue numbers coming out of corporate America, Europe, Japan and China indicate at pretty steep slump underway. Bernanke is printing like mad but I just don’t know how much that can really goose the economy after all the trillions he’s already pumped in to it. We certainly can’t keep borrowing as we have been. Something has to give – and I don’t think Obama knows what to do, other than stick to his talking points on taxation.

    • neocon01 November 10, 2012 / 3:33 pm

      BREAKING: Massive Voter Fraud in St. Lucie County, Florida
      Townhall ^ | November 10, 2012 | Heather Ginsberf

      On Tuesday only one precinct had less than 113% turnout. “The Unofficial vote count is 175,554 registered voters 247,713 vote cards cast (141.10% ). The National SEAL Museum, a St. Lucie county polling place, had 158.85% voter turn out, the highest in the county.”

      The Supervisor of Elections, Gertrude Walker, had this to say concerning the 141% voter turnout: “They may have had something like that in Palm Beach County, but we’ve never seen that here.”

      So maybe Allen West wasn’t crazy to ask for a lock-down on the ballot boxes and machines in this county. According to the report given the day after elections, Allen B. West garnered 52,625 votes in St.Lucie county and Patrick Murphy 65,896 votes.

    • Retired Spook November 10, 2012 / 10:40 am

      Shucks, GMB, you beat me to it. 237!!, now THAT’S OLD!

      Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed how skilled the Donks are at boxing Republicans into lose/lose corners? We are never going to out-bid the Left in offering free stuff in exchange for votes. We are never going to convince people that we don’t want to ban contraceptives and take away their Social Security and MediCare as long as the media continues to give cover to that kind of rhetoric from the Left. Pew did a poll last year in which 49% of young people now believe Socialism is better than Capitalism.

      Young people — the collegiate and post-college crowd, who have served as the most visible face of the Occupy Wall Street movement — might be getting more comfortable with socialism. That’s the surprising result from a Pew Research Center poll that aims to measure American sentiments toward different political labels.

      The poll, published Wednesday, found that while Americans overall tend to oppose socialism by a strong margin — 60 percent say they have a negative view of it, versus just 31 percent who say they have a positive view — socialism has more fans than opponents among the 18-29 crowd. Forty-nine percent of people in that age bracket say they have a positive view of socialism; only

      43 percent say they have a negative view.

      And while those numbers aren’t very far apart, it’s noteworthy that they were reversed just 20 months ago, when Pew conducted a similar poll. In that survey, published May 2010, 43 percent of people age 18-29 said they had a positive view of socialism, and 49 percent said their opinion was negative.

      I don’t see any way to reverse the current trend except some sort of reset, and letting us go off the fiscal cliff would be a good start. It would, undoubtedly result in some, perhaps many short-term loses, but, as someone said the other day, the second hand on the clock would still keep on ticking, and it might cause the millions of single issue folks who stay home from the polls if someone looks cross-eyed at them to get involved in the political process. I’d venture to say that the percentage of Conservatives who are equipped to weather the resulting economic storm is much higher than the percentage of Liberals who could do so.

      I’ve been hoping against hope that we could resolve our differences peacefully at the ballot box, and I really thought that it would be pretty obvious on November 6th that the majority would say “enough”. Had Obama won by the same or greater margin than in 2008, I would have said it’s all over, but we’re still an almost evenly divided nation, and the things that divide us are not just a matter of semantics, but hard-core differences of ideology. The next 4 years are going to be interesting times.

      • Amazona November 10, 2012 / 11:17 am

        “Forty-nine percent of people in that age bracket say they have a positive view of socialism; only 43 percent say they have a negative view.”

        And this is an age bracket either in or fresh from the indoctrination factories we call higher education, and without much time in the real world to be able to experience the effects of socialism.

        To people of that age, socialism is just an idea, a vague abstraction, and what they believe is based upon the constant messaging from their Leftist teachers.

        Someone 29 years old has been out of college for six or seven years, during an economic downturn, which has been blamed on capitalism, a message contradicted by only a few voices in the media. There hasn’t been much evidence to counter the propaganda they have been fed.

        There is a reason there has been such strident opposition to educational vouchers—the entire future of socialism depends on being the only source of “education” for our young. While unions do fight for control, the real threat to the Left is knowledge, and it is not enough to ensure that the public school system controls and limits access to knowledge if it is available through other, affordable, educational systems.

        The system is doomed to failure, anyway, no matter what illusions or delusions have been planted in how many heads. It’s just that when socialism and the other pretty-much-interchangable “isms” of the Left have fallen, as they always do, under the weight of their inherent fatal flaws, nations and people have suffered, wealth has been squandered, and misery has had to reach the tipping point necessary to topple the “ism” of the day.

        And young people are not taught this. No wonder they simply parrot the propaganda of their teachers.

      • neocon01 November 10, 2012 / 2:49 pm


        dont forget more than 50% of the children are being raised with out a father in the house. Many times it is the men who are the disciplinarians and will fight the system instilling boundaries and limits.
        Im not implying that women dont, but after working all day, doing all the household duties, and raising 1-3 kids alone there is not enough time and energy to do the job alone. I think this gives the “schools” and Fn morons like catspuke to fill their heads with socialism.

      • neocon01 November 10, 2012 / 2:53 pm


        I don’t see any way to reverse the current trend except some sort of reset, and letting us go off the fiscal cliff would be a good start.

        Ooh it IS a comin………….that roar and the light aint a dream it is the 9 Oclock special roaring towards us and we are sleeping on the tracks.

        Cloward-Piven, brought to us by saul alinskys protege hussein Ubama

      • dbschmidt November 11, 2012 / 2:51 pm

        Not sure if anyone else caught this but this is what we are fighting against.

        James Carville, Democrat political consultant extraordinaire – and former Bill Clinton campaign manager, has astonishingly come out and said what all good Republicans have known for decades: Not only are most Democrats politically clueless; they’re easily manipulated by the puppet masters of their party as well. Wow. James Freaking Carville. Of all people. Here’s an excerpt, as quoted on

        “Ideologies aren’t all that important. What’s important is psychology.

        The Democratic constituency is just like a herd of cows. All you have to do is lay out enough silage and they come running. That’s why I became an operative working with Democrats. With Democrats all you have to do is make a lot of noise, lay out the hay, and be ready to use the ole cattle prod in case a few want to bolt the herd.

        Eighty percent of the people who call themselves Democrats don’t have a clue as to political reality.

        What amazes me is that you could take a group of people who are hard workers and convince them that they should support social programs that were the exact opposite of their own personal convictions. Put a little fear here and there and you can get people to vote any way you want.

        The voter is basically dumb and lazy. The reason I became a Democratic operative instead of a Republican was because there were more Democrats that didn’t have a clue than there were Republicans.

        Truth is relative. Truth is what you can make the voter believe is the truth. If you’re smart enough, truth is what you make the voter think it is. That’s why I’m a Democrat. I can make the Democratic voters think whatever I want them to.”

        Bingo. I couldn’t have written that for ol’ James any better myself. Truth be told, I’ve always had kind of a love-hate relationship with Carville. While I’ve never agreed with him on much of anything – unless he was commenting on the failures of his party, which unlike most political operatives, he’s not been afraid to do through the years – this is different. This amounts to a total confession of what I define in the right sidebar of this blog as the quintessential “political lie”:

        Liberals saying things they know aren’t true for the sole purpose of exploiting the “less-than-informed” for political gain.

        Excerpt from: via

      • Amazona November 11, 2012 / 3:12 pm

        db, thank you for this quote. I have always really liked Mary Matalin and could not imagine how she could marry Carville, but if this is how he talks at home it makes it a lot easier to understand.

        I’m going to put in a separate file, so I can easily access it when I want to.

    • neocon01 November 10, 2012 / 2:38 pm

      Ooh Rah…Semper Fi DO or DIE!!

      • neocon01 November 10, 2012 / 2:55 pm

        Thanks GMB………. remember tomorrow ALL Applebees serve a free meal to any veteran…..all day

      • neocon01 November 10, 2012 / 2:58 pm

        Every Veterans Day, Applebee’s invites vets and active duty military to come have a meal on us. It’s our way of saying thanks for their service.

        But, really, every day is an opportunity to say thank you. So, join us in our Thank You Movement to personally show your gratitude for those who have served, or are currently serving, in our military.

      • neocon01 November 10, 2012 / 3:08 pm

        husseins PURGE has begun……..

        TWO TOP field Generals fired, now this……

        Petraeus Was Slated to Testify on Benghazi Next Week…

        KING: ‘Absolutely necessary witness’…

        ‘Timing Is Just Too Perfect’…

      • neocon01 November 10, 2012 / 3:09 pm

        meanwhile back at the white hut the POS…….FORE!!

        Obama returns to golf course…

      • neocon01 November 10, 2012 / 3:13 pm

        Fox News Analyst on Petraeus Resignation: ‘These Tough Chicago Guys (thugs) Knew…Held it in Their Back Pocket Until They Needed to Play the Card’

      • neocon01 November 10, 2012 / 3:17 pm

        My My imagine that……how Klintoonesque

        Hillary Clinton Asked to Testify on Benghazi by House Committee

        But she is slated to be out of the country…

    • dbschmidt November 11, 2012 / 2:52 pm

      Thank You kind Sir
      ~ Semper Fi

  3. J. R. Babcock (@JRBabcock) November 10, 2012 / 5:30 pm

    There is an argument to be made that he doesn’t care if it does happen

    Obama said as much in the interview with the Des Moines Register shortly before the election. They immediately endorsed Romney, the first time they had endorsed a Republican since Nixon.

  4. watsonthethird November 10, 2012 / 10:50 pm

    NeoClown said, “On Tuesday only one precinct had less than 113% turnout. ‘The Unofficial vote count is 175,554 registered voters 247,713 vote cards cast (141.10% ). The National SEAL Museum, a St. Lucie county polling place, had 158.85% voter turn out, the highest in the county.'”

    Mark posted about this last night, but had the good sense to quickly remove it when he realized it isn’t true. If you actually look at the St. Lucie County Statement of Votes Cast, you will see that there weren’t more votes cast than there are registered voters. In fact, there were significantly less votes casts than registered voters.

    But it’s good to know that we can count on you to fall for anything. You continue to be a shining example of how out-of-touch with reality conservatives are.

    Click to access GEMS%20SOVC%20REPORT.pdf

    • M. Noonan November 10, 2012 / 11:34 pm


      Actually you have fallen for a sucker story – the report of 141.1% turnout is true.

      Click to access GEMS%20SOVC%20REPORT.pdf

      Clearly shows it, right on page 2 – 141.1% turnout. I pulled the report not because I think it wrong but because I want to see how it develops for a bit. What you liberals don’t seem to realize is just how thoroughly the returns are being reviewed. Won’t change the outcome – Obama did win. But its providing us with massive ammunition in the continuing fight to stop the voter fraud which is endemic to the Democrat party.

      This case, though, seems to be more of an act of bone-headedness rather than a definitive effort at fraud. Though, of course, the bone-headedness could be deliberate.

      • 02casper November 11, 2012 / 12:15 am

        If you dig down into the report you will find that out of 175,554 voters in the county, 124,031 people voted. That is same number for each of the elections listed. There was no fraud.

      • 02casper November 11, 2012 / 12:32 am

        I don’t know what the 141.1% turnout figure means. it could be the time the polling station was open, or it could be something else. It’s obvious if you read the report that it has nothing to do with the number of registered voters or the number of votes cast. This is a perfect example of how lies like this get started. Someone reads the report. He or she jump to a conclusion based on information he or doesn’t understand. A blog entry is created and “bang” a new rumor is started. Others read it and being too lazy to check it out spread the rumor further.

      • Retired Spook November 11, 2012 / 10:09 am

        I don’t know what the 141.1% turnout figure means. it could be the time the polling station was open

        For some reason the file won’t won’t open for me, but, if I had to guess, I’d say the 141.1% figures is the result of same-day registration, where, not only did 100% of the registered voters show up to vote, but another 41.!% showed up, registered and voted also. IMO, same-day registration literally invites fraud.

      • 02casper November 11, 2012 / 10:40 am

        “I’d say the 141.1% figures is the result of same-day registration, where, not only did 100% of the registered voters show up to vote, but another 41.!% showed up, registered and voted also.”

        That was my first thought too. However, Florida doesn’t allow same day registration and the number of “vote cards” (247,713) is a much bigger number than the number of votes cast (124,031).

      • watsonthethird November 11, 2012 / 3:47 pm

        Yes, Mark, the title of the column on pages 1 and 2 is “% Turnout.” Did it ever occur to you that the title might be wrong? (Apparently it did because you quickly pulled your post on Friday night, though not before I happened to see it.)

        The data on pages 1 and 2 enumerates the number of registered voters by precinct and the number of cards cast. Not number of votes. Not number of voters who cast votes. Cards. The voters were given two cards, just like I received two cards in my state. They weren’t two of the same card. How do we know this?

        Perhaps you failed to bother to look beyond pages 1 and 2 (because it wouldn’t fit your narrative), but if you did, you would see that the number of votes cast in each contest was not 140% of registered voters, but about 70% of registered voters.

        If this is your level of review, it is laughable.

      • Amazona November 11, 2012 / 4:08 pm

        And THIS is what you can find to whine about, and use as yet another springboard for yet another personal attack, to feed your insatiable need to attack attack attack, insult insult insult?

        Why not just say Mark was wrong, if he was wrong?

        Why does your furious hostility have to permeate and define everything you post?

        What IS it with you people?

      • Amazona November 11, 2012 / 4:10 pm

        So casper can “dig down” in this report but not in the sneaky hit piece on Petraeus?


      • thetruthshallsetyoufree2012 November 11, 2012 / 10:10 pm

        “Someone reads the report. He or she jump to a conclusion based on information he or doesn’t understand. A blog entry is created and “bang” a new rumor is started. Others read it and being too lazy to check it out spread the rumor further.”

        And the bubble only magnifies this effect because it ensures that conservatives only talk to other conservatives who believe the same falsehoods.

      • watsonthethird November 11, 2012 / 10:56 pm

        Little Amy whined, “What IS it with you people?”

        Here’s the problem, Amy. People like you and Mark and NeoClown rush to inaccurate conclusions based on false information, and as Casper pointed out, this is how your lies start. You are so consumed by hatred of so-called liberals that you abandon any pretense of logic and rational thinking in order to denigrate the other side and conversely make yourself feel better.

        And my first post was pointed toward NeoClown, who has demonstrated over and over that he will stoop to any level to denigrate people he doesn’t like. Truth matters to him not at all. Mark merely jumped in and insisted on sticking with this ludicrous story. I’d be nicer about it, but I’ve learned that that isn’t the way the game is played here at B4V. Sorry if it hurts your feelings that you all were made to look foolish by this story.

        Mark is not a dumb man, but his (and Matt’s) ceaseless carping on imagined liberal misdoings–while completely ignoring the faults of his own party–only serves to significantly undermine his position as a rational and fair thinker. If he really wants to be seen as a serious political commentator, then he needs to take an approach that isn’t so hyper-partisan as to make him look silly to everyone but his few true believers. It’s his call. But he (and you) shouldn’t be surprised when he gets called on his BS.

      • Amazona November 11, 2012 / 11:16 pm

        wattle, if you are going to cling to the lie that conservatives HATE Liberals, you are creating a scenario in which nothing any conservative ever says to you will penetrate. You have such a need to believe that hatred, and not an objective rejection of the political system of the Left, is the reason for disagreeing with you that nothing will ever be able to budge it.

        You need this, for some reason, and it is too important to you for you to ever let go of it.

        I think it must be because the very CONCEPT of studying opposing systems of government, comparing the quality of life under one to that of another, looking at the success rates and failures of each, and coming to a principled conclusion about which is the better way to govern—–and finding that this model is not only the better way it is the way laid out and codified into law in our own Constitution—-is such a strange and alien way of thinking of politics that you simply cannot understand it.

        Because your own position is not based on this kind of process but consists, instead, knee jerk hostility to an imagined Other, you cannot conceive of any other reason to align with a political party, so you assume we, too, are driven by hate.

        Until you manage to get over this lie, and realize that we want pretty much the same things you do, for pretty much the same reasons, and are divided mostly by our ideas of whether these goals should be achieved through unrestrained federal power and authority or in compliance with the Constitution, you will always be ruled by your internal visions, no matter how little they comply with reality.

      • Amazona November 11, 2012 / 11:20 pm

        truthie, as you can’t even DEFINE conservative I don’t know how you can make such absolute pronouncements on what and how conservatives think, so can’t know if what they think is false or not.

        You also seem to be making the same mistake most if not all Libs make, and conflating the wildly varying opinions on various social issues with what conservatism really is, which is the belief that the United States should be governed according to its Constitution.

        You are playing the Lib game of not seeing people as people, but as amorphous demographic groups, which you then identify and define and describe and that all becomes your truth, whether or not it comport with objective reality.

      • Amazona November 11, 2012 / 11:23 pm

        As for “What IS it with you people?” that includes bewilderment at the pathology that drives you to incessantly prowl conservative blogs to incessantly attack conservatives.

        It makes no sense to me. It is not to debate the pros and cons of opposing political philosophy, because you avoid political philosophy like the plague.

        It seems that you (plural ‘you’) have an insatiable need for vitriol and hostility and get some cheap thrill from attacking and savaging people.

        It’s really quite creepy…….

      • watsonthethird November 12, 2012 / 12:34 am

        The creepy thing is how much time you, Little Amy, devote to this web site. I make a statement and you respond with not one, not two, but three of your own. Hilarious. Anyway, the reason I think it is a hatred is because it is irrational.

      • Amazona November 12, 2012 / 11:42 am

        So you are now redefining “hatred” as merely being irrational?

        You first decide that something is “irrational” and then, shazaam, that thing is actually an example of “hatred”?

        To be irrational means to hate?

        Interesting. Though by your own standard and definition I AM correct in describing your posts as hateful, because by any definition they are sure irrational.

        While I find your redefinition ridiculous, it is interesting to see that in some contexts it actually does make sense.

        Thanks so much for the generous contribution to the ever-growing pile of examples of what passes for thought on the Left.

  5. J. R. Babcock (@JRBabcock) November 11, 2012 / 12:15 pm

    Looks like Obama is going to inherit an even bigger mess that we thought.

    By the end of Obama’s second term, the fascist alliance between big business, big finance and big government should be nearly complete. Thanks, Liberals.

  6. Amazona November 12, 2012 / 11:37 am

    Oh, so you find it “hilarious” that someone cares enough about the truth to go to the effort to debunk the lies you and your kind spread so liberally. I wondered about the source of that cackling, tittering racket—–such hilarity.

    Well, when I am home working on some projects I am either on the computer or near it. Mine is set up in a kind of hallway office space near the center of my house, so when I walk past it I often click it on to see what new mental sewage has spewed from the likes of you.

    And because truth matters to me, I often take a few minutes to clean up the latest steaming pile of Leftist “thought” deposited on this blog.

    It’s dirty work but somebody’s got to do it.

    People like you often manage to pack so much crap into any given post it takes a few responses to clear the air.

    What really seems to get your goat is that I not only think so much faster than you, I type faster too. So it is no big deal for me to toss off a few lengthy posts, if the lie level has risen to that requirement. And it gets easier, as I so often end up debunking the same lie several times—–though it often seems as if you people have an endless supply of lies, vicious lies, and downright vile untruths, in fact you do recycle your insanity, vomiting it up and then slurping it down so you can bring it up again and again.

    Don’t worry about me, wattle. I can slip in my blog sanitation chores while getting a lot done in other areas.

    As for your helpless susceptibility to hilarity, I suggest keeping some extra panties in your pocket for those times it is so strong you end up peeing down your leg while you giggle and titter uncontrollably. It won’t affect your feeblemindedness but it might spare you some social discomfort.

    • neocon01 November 12, 2012 / 1:39 pm

      haaaaate, raaaaaacism, biiiigot,
      BS from watsontheTurd / alinsky 101 for dummies.

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