Memorial Day Weekend – Open Thread

I have to say that this new age of civility at B4V has me all a flutter. There were some very good comments and discourse in the previous thread, so it is possible to post respectful comments and not be offended by those we disagree with. However there was one casualty – LOL.

Lot’s of issues to comment on, so pick your favorite and let us know how you feel about it. The one that caught my attention this morning was the riot in Sweden. Often touted as a liberal paradise, it seems that the NON natives are now restless. Do you suppose that we will ever be able to convince progressives that legislating “fairness” is impossible? Based on the recent post from the DailyKos – I would say not –

..[T]he ideals of the Republican party reflect tribalism, selfishness, and zero-sum games, while the Democratic party’s reflect unity, humility, and leaving a better world to our descendents… …[T]here really is no room for Republicans in the world we are living in. So long as the people in this country are facing unpredictable, deadly, natural as well as man-made disasters, medical care that needs to be provided, life-altering climate change that needs to be managed, and the turmoil that comes with living paycheck to paycheck, Republicans and their supporters are dead weight to the rest of us…But then, there’s no denying that Republicans are also a demographic of the people with whom we need to plan on sharing this better world, because they are likely not going to change their ways anytime soon. The best we can do is get them out of the way, as in out of our government…

Think about the statement for a moment. The “reflection” of unity, humility and leaving the world in a better place is how this poster sees the Democratic Party. Not for the results the policies actually produce, but simply for the “feel good” intent. That is a dangerously educated person that is currently walking our streets and voting.

Take a moment this weekend to say a prayer of thanks to our veterans that have given the ultimate sacrifice in protecting this greatest nation on God’s green earth, and I hope you all have a fun filled weekend.

28 thoughts on “Memorial Day Weekend – Open Thread

  1. neocon01 May 25, 2013 / 12:18 pm

    To all My Fellow Vet BROTHERS……..OOH RAH Semper Fi
    Happy Memorial day weekend!!

    RVN Dec. 1966- Jan. 1968
    Chu Lai – Hue, Dong Ha, Khe Sanh! and many other places in between.

      • neocon01 May 25, 2013 / 12:39 pm

        You are most welcome JR

  2. tiredoflibbs May 25, 2013 / 1:03 pm

    To the vets and serving members of the Armed Forces, thank you for your service.

    At this Memorial Day, I want pay tribute to my grandfather and his brothers, who are members of the greatest generation. They fought the Nazis during WWII. My grandfather served with the 4th Army 9th Armored Division and fought at the Battle of the Bulge.

    His brothers, one of whom service with the Army Air Corps in England as part of the 7th Air Force. He was a aircraft mechanic that kept the B-17s flying which led to diminishing Germany’s ability to fight and maintain material levels.

    They were disgusted in the direction of the Democrat Party and their disrespect for the Armed Services. They could see through the grand-standing by these politicians. Their record of disrespect and weakening of the armed services could not be erased by fancy speeches and Potemkin shows for the camera.

    Again, thanks to all those who have served.

  3. Jeremiah May 25, 2013 / 10:28 pm

    God bless all our Military Men, Women, and Families – Past, Present, and Future!

    None forgotten!

    • neocon01 May 26, 2013 / 10:36 am

      Memorial Day

      This day is called the feast of Crispian: He that outlives this day, and comes safe home, Will stand a tip-toe when the day is named, And rouse him at the name of Crispian. He that shall live this day, and see old age, Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours, And say ‘To-morrow is Saint Crispian:’ Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars. And say ‘These wounds I had on Crispin’s day.’ Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he’ll remember with advantages What feats he did that day: then shall our names. Familiar in his mouth as household words Harry the king, Bedford and Exeter, Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester, Be in their flowing cups freshly remember’d. This story shall the good man teach his son; And Crispin Crispian shall ne’er go by, From this day to the ending of the world, But we in it shall be remember’d; We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother; be he ne’er so vile, This day shall gentle his condition: And gentlemen in England now a-bed Shall think themselves accursed they were not here, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That fought with us upon Saint Crispin’s day.

  4. Cluster May 26, 2013 / 11:21 am

    The Democrats, the media, the regime and their loyalists are doing their best to spin put of this IRS scandal claiming that the agency is an independent agency that the President has not involvement with. Well –

    Former Internal Revenue Service Commissioner Doug Shulman visited the White House 118 times between 2010 and 2011. Acting Director Steven Miller, who took over at the IRS in November, also made numerous visits to the White House, though variations in the spelling of his name in White House visitor logs makes it difficult to determine exactly how many times.

    The frequent trips to the White House under Obama far outnumbered the times other administrations felt the need to meet with the IRS, according to Mark Everson, who led the IRS under former President George W. Bush. Everson said he remembers making only one trip to the White House between 2003 and 2007 and said he felt like he’d “moved to Siberia” because of the isolation.

  5. Amazona May 26, 2013 / 4:52 pm

    I take issue with the oft-repeated claim that this is about “civility”—-unless we are going to define the very effort to disrupt the blog as “uncivil” no matter how carefully it is worded.

    I do not agree that mere “civility” is, was or should be the issue but there seems to be a real obsession with that word. I have heard defenses of some of the most vile personas to ever post on this blog, on the grounds that much of the vileness was, at least, “civil”.

  6. Bob1 May 26, 2013 / 6:42 pm

    I am more interested in reading proposed solutions to our common American problems than I am in reading “civil” discourse.

    • Amazona May 26, 2013 / 7:01 pm

      Bob, we can’t even agree on what the “common American problems” ARE, much less on how to address them.

      I contend that the most important, by a factor of thousands, is purely political—that if we can learn as a people, to understand the actual political choices we are supposed to be making at the ballot box, and vote exclusively on what kind of GOVERNMENT we want, the “issues” that have distracted and divided so many of us will then be resolved at the state and/or local levels, where they belong.

      But the party or movement that is supposed to be about Constitutional governance is constantly being led into the weeds, where the Left wants it, by focusing on “issues” instead of how best to govern the nation, and this has the wholly predictable result of splitting the party/movement on disagreements that have nothing to do with actual government in the first place.

      • Amazona May 26, 2013 / 7:03 pm

        BTW, what do you all think of the new format?

        I hate it, just as I hate the new Outlook format for MSN and Hotmail. What is this new fad of faded fonts and washed-out-looking pages? It’s like a formalization of wishy-washiness as a virtue, or something.

      • Bob1 May 26, 2013 / 9:37 pm

        Amazona, As long as you propose that “the most important factor” is “political” you limit the thinking and the strategies that we Americans can and must make in order to restore an effective system of government to bring order and justice to all Americans. The ideal principles that must define and maintain such a system of government are bigger than the political processes that we use to put them into place, and they are broader and more unifying than our Constitution, which is basically a legal guide to the civil order that we all need but can’t determine how to establish by our “popular” political processes. I think that we have lost a clear understanding of what it means to be an American in this country, so we stumble through various “political” procedures trying to establish some system of rules that might be acceptable to a majority of our citizens in spite of their “political” and idealogical differences. The problems that we face in this country won’t be solved by “political” processes.

      • Amazona May 27, 2013 / 12:37 am

        Well, what we have to work with happens to be the political process, and the Constitution is the distillation and codification of the ideals upon which the nation was founded. If we ignore the “political process” then we waive our right and ability to influence the way the nation is run.

      • Amazona May 27, 2013 / 9:19 am

        Bob, I’ve been thinking about your post and I still can’t make sense of it. You seem to be skirting around something you hesitate to say outright.

        The only way to “…restore an effective system of government to bring order and justice to all Americans…” is to restore an effective system of government —which is, legally and morally, the Constitution of the United States—-which has within it the mechanisms by which that government can bring order and justice back to the nation.

        I can’t imagine any way to accomplish this other than through the political process. Even open armed rebellion, such as we saw in 1776, would require a political process to establish a form of government.

        Of course principles are bigger than the systems they produce. Of course any system is a distillation not just of principles but of how to implement them. And of course any functional governing system tries to incorporate only the principles which are directly relevant to governing.

        Perhaps you can tell us what “principles” necessary to the restoration of the United States to its former self are not represented in the Constitution, which you dismiss as merely “basically a legal guide to …….. civil order”.

        When I sit down to talk about politics, politics is what I talk about. And politics is shorthand for the principles of GOVERNMENT, which should be the only principles codified and made into governing law. A proper form of government addresses itself to principles dealing with how a nation should be run. Our own, for example, is based upon the principles of individual liberty and limited government, and quite properly leaves the issues of personal principles to those individuals. Others are based on the principles of collectivism and government control over the individual.

        While the Founding Fathers each had a set of personal principles, they carefully kept their design of our governing documents limited to those which define how the nation must be run, understanding that a nation which tries to impose a collection of what are really personal principles upon its people is really just tyranny.

      • Bob1 May 27, 2013 / 12:39 pm

        Amazona, You indicate below that you believe that our government is ” based upon the principles of individual liberty and limited government”, but I don’t see it functioning in accord with any such principles. Elections are conducted and won in accord with “popular” political power and influence, and there is no consensus among Americans regarding any limitations on government, which is the cause of many of our problems. Objective journalism is no longer the standard for our major media, but it has been replaced by what are “politically correct” reports that are often frequently revised. The “rule of law”, which is suppose to be stated in our Constitution is subject to interpretation and enforcement by a court of judges who are appointed in accord with their personal political idealogies and authorized to make their binding decisions regarding major cases of law in accord with a simple majority, which is often more “political” than it is “legal”. For example the basic case of Roe vs Wade should have probably been legally undone when it was discovered that the basis for it was a “fraud”, yet no one was ever charged with perjury. You also say below that “a nation which tries to impose a collection of what are really personal principles upon its people is really just tyranny”, which is exactly what is happening through our current political processes of government. A good start in the reformation of our government would be demonstrated by having our major media give up their dedication to publishing “politically correct” reports and return to more objective reports of the “facts”. Another important step would be to end election fraud everywhere. Reports of “fraud” should be thoroughly investigated and election results should be corrected as necessary in order to restore integrity to the process. Talking about reform will not produce reforms. We need a unifying revival of what it means to be an American before our “political” process of how we govern ourselves can be reformed. I trust that this helps to clarify my perspective on this matter. .

      • Amazona May 27, 2013 / 10:59 pm

        Bob, I understand your perspective. I just don’t agree with it. To me, you are saying that all the various social, moral, educational and spiritual problems of the nation must be resolved before we can worry about how the nation is governed.

        I assert, on the other hand, that the political solution is the most accessible, and if accomplished will set the tone for the rest.

        You are correct in saying that the government of today is not run according to the principles I presented. Therefore, the first step in government would be to work toward following those principles.

      • Bob1 May 27, 2013 / 11:34 pm

        Amazona, In response to your last comment to me, I would refer you to the article on “The Rise of the Fourth Branch of Government” by Jonathan Turley. I think that he makes a very strong case for the perspective that there are not any “popular” political solutions to the problems that we face in the government of our country. The bodies for government are no longer effective and the bureaucracies have become so numerous and isolated from normal “political” processes that I think our government is seriously “broken”. I think that many members of congress need to be replaced, the president should have been impeached a long time ago, a lot of bureaucrats need to be fired and their agencies dismantled, and the “rule of law” in our business of government needs to be enforced with more cases in our courts of law not just “hearings” or investigative reports.

      • Amazona May 27, 2013 / 11:41 pm

        Yep. Government is screwed up. So it needs to be fixed.

        How to fix it? Stop doing what we are doing wrong, and start doing the right thing, which is to go back to the Constitution.

        You can’t fix government by fretting about journalism, or the rise in power of agencies. You fix government by electing people who are committed to fixing government.

        If the argument is that the Constitution is not the best way to govern the nation, then please make it. If there is belief that the Constitution IS the best way to govern the nation, then focus on electing people with the same view.

        If we have a Constitutional government, we will not have out-of-control agencies. We will not have infinitely expansive and expanding central authority. And hopefully more and more people will see how well it works and start to understand why it works.

      • Bob1 May 27, 2013 / 11:50 pm

        You say, “You fix government by electing people who are committed to fixing government”, but who are they and where are they and how can we get them elected when “fixing government” is not a “popular” agenda for most politicians and even for the majority of the people?

      • Amazona May 28, 2013 / 7:46 am

        Here’s what I think is a better question: How can we fix government when we never even ask voters to FIX GOVERNMENT but instead ask them to vote on pet “issues” and personal “values”?

        This is what we ask them to vote on, and this is what they do vote on, and then we wonder why we aren’t making any progress in fixing the government.

        We might try an election cycle where all we ask of the voters is that they develop at least a basic understanding of their choices, regarding GOVERNMENT, and then ask them to choose between them. Radical concept, I know, and it would mean a lot of passionate people getting off their soapboxes about “issues” and focusing on what elections are really supposed to be about, but it would be an interesting experiment.

        And it would make the heads of the Left explode, because the last thing the Left can handle is analysis of the two basic opposing political systems and the success/failure rates of each. This is why they work so hard to distract voters by dangling all these emotionally charged “issues” in front of them.

        And we, of course, go along with this, digging our own political graves.

      • Bob1 May 28, 2013 / 11:58 am

        Amazona, You indicate that the solutions to our problems of government “would mean a lot of passionate people getting off their soapboxes about “issues” and focusing on what elections are really supposed to be about”, which is what I’m recommending. But it won’t happen as long as our government operates in accord with what is “popular” among voters who are easily manipulated by powerful politicians, a non-objective media, and elections that are less than “legal”. I’m not exactly “hopeless”, but I don’t have much hope in the ability of the “political process” to solve our problems of government. It would help to get some more amendments to our Constitution, like one for a balanced federal budget and another one for term limits for members of Congress, but these can only be implemented by “political” procedures that are probably not “popular” enough to get accomplished. So how are you going to start a “revolution” that will restore a system of government “of the people” to these American states?

      • Amazona May 28, 2013 / 7:49 am

        And you don’t fix government by not trying to fix government. You don’t do it by throwing up your hands in defeat. You don’t do it by sloping off in some other direction, such as fretting about the press or the effects of out-of-control government such as that “fourth branch” of government in the article.

        You do it by doing what problem solvers always have to do to solve any problem—by developing a clear understanding of the problem and then by addressing it, in its various segments if the whole is too complex or large to tackle as such.

        And if you can’t correct it all at once, you diminish the problem, you whittle away at it, you build up the solution side while undermining the problem side. You understand that a problem which took years, decades, to develop might take that long to solve.

        And in this case you also keep in mind that “popular” is a transient emotion, shifting dramatically almost day by day. Today, for example, a skillful presentation of the latest IRS abuses which explains the underlying problem of a massive and ever-growing federal government operating under the assumption it has unlimited power could easily shift that nebulous “popularity” issue to support for the idea, at least, of a federal government severely restricted as to size, scope and power.

    • neocon01 May 27, 2013 / 10:08 am

      “The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government.” — Gaius Cornelius Tacitus (56-117) Roman orator, lawyer, senator and historian

      TRY to figure out the 300,000++++Federal laws on the books….MORE than Red China. When our country was founded Treason was the only federal crime.
      “free country” indeed.

  7. neocon01 May 27, 2013 / 11:15 am

    Thomas Lucente: If opposing Obama makes me a racist, then I am a racist
    If it is racist to believe that the president selling guns to Mexican drug cartels who then use those very same weapons to murder U.S. Border Patrol agents is wrong, then, yes, I am a racist.

    If it is racist to be angered by a president who ordered the military to stand down while an American embassy was being attacked, then, yes, I am a racist.

    If it is racist to want hearings to understand the entire scope of a president covering up that same attack by knowingly trying to blame an obscure Internet video and knowingly lying to the American people about it, then, yes, I am a racist.

    If it is racist to be outraged that the president and his administration used the power of the IRS to prevent tea party and other conservative groups from participating in the 2012 election, which might have changed the outcome, then, yes, I am a racist.

    If it is racist to be disgusted by the Obama administration crushing the First Amendment under a jackboot by wiretapping reporters’ and editors’ telephones, then, yes, I am a racist.

    If it is racist to speak out against Obama killing at least four American citizens with drones without a trial and other due process, then, yes, I am a racist.

    If it is racist to oppose socialistic policies that redistribute wealth through the use of force by taking from the makers and giving it to the takers — in other words to believe that a free person has the right to keep what he or she produces — then, yes, I am a racist.

    If it is racist to point out the irresponsible and reckless spending of this administration and the crushing debt Obama is piling on top of the next generation to finance his utopian (which is actually dystopian) view of a world run by huge governments where everyone is subservient to the state, then, yes, I am a racist.

    So, yes, if opposing Obama and his dangerous administration is racist, then, by all means I am a racist. However, we all know that the term is simply being used because the left has no argument when faced with facts so they act in a racist manner by accusing others of racist behavior.

    It matters not because I know, as do all thinking individuals, that the biggest threat to American liberty — as it always has been — is government. The bigger the beast, the greater the danger. And there is no bigger advocate of big government than Barack Obama. His views would make Karl Marx proud.

    So if opposing big government and defending human liberty — which is the same thing — means I have to be labeled a racist by those who support Obama and his attempt to grow the Leviathan of big government to its logical conclusion — tyranny and enslavement — then I am a racist.

  8. Retired Spook May 27, 2013 / 11:46 am

    Well, in spite of being in the middle of a semi-sabatical from blogging, I can’t let a Memorial Day pass without wishing fair winds and following seas to all my comrades in arms. Our present situation, while it may well be a long ordeal, will pass, and hopefully we’ll be the stronger for it. Keep the faith, and God bless.

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