America’s Shame

From KXLY.com:

WWII veteran Delbert Belton survived being wounded in action during the Battle of Okinawa only to be beaten and left for dead by two teens at the Eagles Lodge in Spokane on Wednesday evening.

Belton, 88, succumbed to his injuries Thursday morning at Sacred Heart Medical Center.

The Spokane County Medical Examiner’s Office says Belton died of blunt facial and head injuries.

Witnesses say Belton was in the parking lot of the Eagles Lodge at 6410 N. Lidgerwood, adjacent to the Eagles Ice-A-Rena, around 8 p.m. Wednesday when the two male suspects attacked him as he was about to head inside to play pool…

We are not a decent nation when this can happen.  We are not raising up a civilized generation when this can happen.  He was 88 years old.  He was completely defenseless.  He was beaten to death by two fit, young men.  Two young men who, had we been raising a decent generation, would have been like Belton 60 years ago…brave and willing to sacrifice.  We used to turn out quiet heroes like Belton, now we turn out savages.

We’ve got to change, completely.  All this garbage we’ve been feeding on must be brought to an end…until such time as an old man can be safe and young men are raised up modeled on that old man.

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59 thoughts on “America’s Shame

  1. neocon01 August 23, 2013 / 3:10 pm

    I disagree……..DEMOGRAPHIC!!!!! SHAME.

    My whole family is AMERICAN and we HAVE NO PART in this BS!! or shame. We all can hold our heads high,,.. too bad 12% cant.

    • neocon01 August 23, 2013 / 3:14 pm

      Mark
      this not going to be popular but I tell it as I see it…..
      , now we turn out savages. Not just NOW.
      I am 67 yo and this has been going on since I can remember……..nothing new here, just better media, IE internet and eyes being opened.

      • Amazona August 23, 2013 / 4:13 pm

        Yeah, we have always had savages. But we used to punish them for being savages. Now we baby them, turn them loose to prey again, and in general don’t do enough to make savagery a very very bad choice.

        Oh, we also disarm those the savages want to see as victims, and scare those who ARE armed into worrying if self defense will be spun into “murder” or make them targets of bounties placed on their heads, etc.

      • Bob1 August 24, 2013 / 3:04 pm

        I’m 82 years old, and I think that every child is born a “savage” until he or she is civilized. I can remember when my first born son was 4 years old, and he stood in the living room of our apartment and proclaimed, “I want what I want when I want it”. That is the declaration of a “savage”. We tried to “civilize” him, but we haven’t been completely successful, and he is now 59 years old. We tolerate too much “savage” behavior to eliminate this problem.

  2. j6206 August 23, 2013 / 4:08 pm

    I would agree that a substantial % of the 12% is the problem but certainly not 100% of the 12%. It seems to be getting worse and there doesn’t seem to be a solution. More fatherless children with very few role models, few avenues for success and few hopes for a promising future all point to a worsening problem.

    • Amazona August 23, 2013 / 4:10 pm

      The way to have “avenues to success” is to have a strong economy which is built upon a capitalist free market system in which people are allowed to keep what they earn. And a way to support that is to get over the idea that a job is something someone else gives/owes you. A job is what you create where you see a need that has to be met, as much as what someone else has created to fill a need that has to be met.

    • neocon01 August 23, 2013 / 4:26 pm

      with very few role models,
      there are hundreds of thousands of role models, the BIG LIE is that only a black can be a role model for another black….

      • j6206 August 23, 2013 / 4:36 pm

        Certainly that is true,but the best role model for any boy is his father who can teach him how to be a man. Too often in the AA community they are nowhere to be found.

    • M. Noonan August 23, 2013 / 7:26 pm

      j6206,

      No. We told those boys to do that. We have instructed them day in and day out all through their lives that they should, precisely, go out and beat an old man to death. That is what we taught them, that is what they learned and that is what they did. There are no uneducated people – everyone is educated precisely as we want them to be. We glorify savagery. We mock virtue. I’d say that we are getting precisely what we deserve except that we’re not…just some of us, like that poor, old man. He got what I deserved. Dammit, I’m sick of this.

  3. neocon01 August 23, 2013 / 4:22 pm

    j62

    but certainly not 100% of the 12%.
    and I agree 100% with that observation,
    However much like islam, the lack of out rage and out cry makes it difficult to tell the cowboys from the indians which hurts them all except a few, toss in the large number of race baiters and it makes the 100% look terrible.

  4. neocon01 August 23, 2013 / 4:31 pm

    anotha creeppy azz cracka…..

  5. tiredoflibbs August 23, 2013 / 5:00 pm

    Will we get the “My grandfather would look like “Shorty” speech?

    Or the…..

    “If I had a cousin, he would look like Christopher Lane” speech?

    Where is the outrage for these racially motivated crimes? Jesse? Al? It is pretty sad when a young white man or elderly white man can be gunned down or beaten to death for no reason.

    But I am sure the excuses will pour forth how these crimes are different than the racially charged one that the media and race pimps hyped day after day.

    Pathetic, but typical for the divisive left.

    • neocon01 August 24, 2013 / 11:57 am

      Tired
      “Pathetic, but typical for the divisive left”. = yup, communists, nazis, KKK, NOI, NBPP, CBC…..all the same cloth.

  6. Amazona August 23, 2013 / 10:11 pm

    Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.

    John Stuart Mill

  7. americanforchange August 24, 2013 / 12:25 am

    I see it that no matter what race you are there are families that do not parent their children but let the streets raise them. Parents need to be parents and not asses who blame everything and everyone else for their kids problems.

  8. Cluster August 24, 2013 / 8:28 am

    The breakdown of the family unit is responsible for much of the carnage we see today. There is no structure or discipline at home for these kids, and they end up seeking that elsewhere. There is also a sense of hopelessness amongst this current generation because no one has ever instilled a work ethic or Faith into their lives. And yet our society, and you know by that I mean our “liberal society”, still doesn’t get that. I read an article the other day where women were celebrating their choice to be single moms, and this trend is growing – no need for a man in the house. No need for a Father??? Children NEED fathers.

    My grandfather had a great saying – “the harder I work, the luckier I get”. More people need to know what that expression means.

  9. neocon01 August 24, 2013 / 11:54 am

    “the harder I work, the luckier I get”. More people need to know what that expression means.
    Love it,
    may I borrow it?
    (I will any way 🙂 )

  10. Norma Stitz August 24, 2013 / 12:15 pm

    It seems odd that this horrific and intolerable crime is framed as a demographic shame borne from broken homes. Perhaps the scumbag perpetrators came from such backgrounds but that does not define the basis of their crime.

    Timothy McVeigh did not come from a background capable of terrorism. His was an American tragedy, not a democratic shame on white, midwestern, middle-class veterans.

    None of us knows the background of this indefensible crime. Perhaps they were two thugs looking to rob an old man. Perhaps they were two thugs that got in a road rage situation that ended in that parking lot.

    That they are criminal thugs that committed a cowardly, heinous act is not in dispute. But was it their “demographic” that should shamed?

    • Amazona August 24, 2013 / 1:26 pm

      I guess that depends on which “demographic” you choose to identify.

      I believe the specific demographic is that of black people who hate white people and who feel the compulsion to act on this hatred, with the implied consent of much of society. The existence of this demographic is linked to that of fragmented homes with no father figure, but clearly, as we all understand without being lectured, most fatherless homes do not produce thrill killers or hate killers.

      However, fatherless homes which also exist in a multi-generational state of dependence on the state are more likely to produce such a sub-group than, for example, fatherless homes in which the mother is employed and there is the teaching of societal and personal responsibility. The likelyhood of creation of a demographic of young men steeped in hatred of other people because of the color of their skin, who also feel justified in acting out this hatred, is certainly increased by societal acceptance of groups such as “Christian” religions which openly preach racial hatred and claim it is approved and even required by God, and/or paramilitary groups which openly promote violence and even murder based on racial hatred, and/or people who have achieved fame and fortune by preaching racial hatred and defending violence based on it, and/or highly respected public figures (such as the President of the United States and his Attorney General) who contribute to acceptance and approval of such behaviors and attitudes.

      Society does not consist of clearly defined, clearly separate, discrete (as opposed to “discreet”—-look it up) “demographics” and I think we all agree that to understand why a certain category of person exists we need to look at the structure of society that allows it to form and then exist.

      No one has blamed “broken homes” exclusively for the problems of thuggery, thrill killing, racially motivated killing, etc. The comment was “We are not raising up a civilized generation when this can happen…” and further discussion addressed broken homes as contributing to the problem, not as the sole source.

      Please try to be honest in your commentary and refrain from misstating what has been said.

      If McVeigh was one of thousands who had committed similar crimes, we WOULD have to look into his entire background, including the societal effects of his family life, his religious upbringing, his culture, his influences, etc. And they might well have been found to be contributing factors. And they might even have been identified as a national shame. But as he was an anomaly, a freak, who fit into no discernible pattern, it is quite dishonest to try to drag him into a discussion about a clear pattern of behavior which has been identified and also linked to specific causes or at least influences.

      • Norma Stitz August 24, 2013 / 3:23 pm

        Two guys robbing and or killing an old man doesn’t mean they hate white people and seethe with racial hatred. That may be true of these turds or it may not.

        I am just surprised everyone here takes it as a given such things could be the basis of the attack, especially when such attribution of motive was completely and correctly dismissed when applied to George Zimmerman.

        Zimmerman’s situation had nothing to do with racial hatred, and maybe, just maybe, neither does this. Maybe, just mybe, this was a case of two street thugs rolling an old man. Maybe.

        Sorry for my dishonesty, Amazona, I’ll try to keep it in check, it is so out of hand.

      • Amazona August 25, 2013 / 9:15 am

        “Sorry for my dishonesty, Amazona, I’ll try to keep it in check, it is so out of hand.”

        Well, it would be a step in the right direction.

  11. neocon01 August 24, 2013 / 2:24 pm

    n, stazita
    Timothy McVeigh did not come from a background capable of terrorism.

    Tim Mc Veigh was DIRECT blow back against an out of control (klintoon) government, FBI and ATF who shot AMERICAN CITIZENS = women, children, dogs with snipers and burned 80 some women and children to death with tanks, tear gas and incendiaries…..SOME think TM as an American Hero…..not so the racist psychopath murderers we are discussing.

    nice attempt at deflection though.

    • Norma Stitz August 24, 2013 / 3:18 pm

      Ok, so I see Neocon’s demographic is paranoid former military who hate America (you know, the President [Clinton], the law [FBI]) under the delusion they know the “true America.”

      According to your own reasoning, McVeigh was not an anomaly at all, just a shame on your demographic. Thanks for the clarification.

      • Norma Stitz August 24, 2013 / 5:49 pm

        I want to apologize to Neocon, my last post was out of line. I saw red when I rwad the phrase “to some McVeigh was an American hero.”

        Regardless of motivation, McVeigh slaughtered people, including children, who had nothing to do with Waco or Ruby Ridge. A hero stands for his convictions regardless of cost. McVeigh destroyed American lives and hid until he was dragged out into daylight. That is no hero.

        I am sorry I threw you in his lot, Neocon. Please accept my apology.

  12. neocon01 August 25, 2013 / 10:32 am

    Norma stizita
    No apology necessary Im a big boy who can slug it out with the best,
    I neither condone nor villafy Tim McVeigh, However i do realize that we had a totally out of control government using goons, snipers, tanks, gas against innocent American Citizens…….THAT all STOPPED after OC.
    The klintoon regime got the message loud and clear…you do that to innocent women and children there are “patriots” that will pay you and those who committed those atrocity’s back in spades……
    now back to the innercity feral animals wreaking havoc in America….when will the white blow back come??

    • Amazona August 25, 2013 / 10:49 am

      Well, neo, it’s hard to justify a reluctance to vilify a coward who slaughtered innocents in the pretense of doing it as a “protest”.

      McVeigh harbored hard feelings about some actions of the U.S. government. So what? Many of us do. So what does the slimy cowardly despicable act of setting off a powerful bomb that killed so many, including tiny children in day care, which spared the lives of those who were actually responsible for the actions he claimed to be “protesting” have to do with anything?

      Yeah, the way to “protest” against the government using force against “.. innocent American Citizens..” is to, you guessed it, USE FORCE AGAINST INNOCENT AMERICAN CITIZENS . And BTW none of the things McVeigh claimed to be “protesting” were still going on when he set his bomb and slunk off like the filthy coward he was. You refer to two separate incidents, in the past, not ongoing actions, and to claim that the bombing in OKC “stopped” them is not only untrue, it is irrational, and in its way IS condoning what he did. When was Ruby Ridge? When was Waco? When did McVeigh decide to target secretaries and babies and others who had nothing to do with either?

      If he just wanted to strike out against the federal government, why didn’t he set his bomb to go off on a Sunday afternoon, and take out a federal BUILDING? I’ll tell you why—-he wanted to kill, not to make a point.

      I do not believe that McVeigh seriously wanted to protest anything. I think he was a vile, hate-filled coward who nurtured negative feelings and liked the power he could feel by killing people but lacked the courage to do it face to face. Sure, he had his excuses, but they were feeble and transparent.

      If he were not such a sniveling coward, he could have taken on the ATF, which seems to be his main target if you buy into the Ruby Ridge/Waco excuses. Or the FBI. But his choice of target was not related to what he later claimed was his motive—it was just easy, and offered him a lot of gratuitous bloodshed.

      I for one have no problem at all in vilifying McVeigh and I do wonder how anyone could hesitate to do so. To me, even considering that he might have been justified, even waffling a little on condemning him, smacks of the same kind of attitude of Jeremiah Wright claiming “the chickens have come home to roost” or praising the “courage” of the cowards who hijacked planes on 9/11.

      • neocon01 August 25, 2013 / 11:01 am

        Ama

        dont get me wrong here I was merely answering norma and stating what many people think
        I did not, nor do I agree with TM,and his actions. However I recognize many people had the same feelings against kkklintoon, reno the atf and fbi as being foul despicable cowardly assassins in RR, Waco, and elian gonzales.
        that said ,bombing people is as low and cowardly as shooting women and children with snipers I condemn both!

      • Amazona August 25, 2013 / 11:17 am

        No, neo, that is not what you said.

        What you SAID was: ““The klintoon regime got the message loud and clear…you do that to innocent women and children there are “patriots” that will pay you and those who committed those atrocity’s back in spades……

        What you SAID was:

        McVeigh was a patriot, with the message that if the government attacks women and children the “pay back—in spades” will be to do the same to OTHER women and children.

        And you went on to say that because of this other atrocity, the Clinton regime stopped doing what this alleged “patriot” was allegedly “protesting”. And to that I say a loud and emphatic BULLS**T.

        All the evidence I have seen regarding either Waco or Ruby Ridge has been that a couple of agencies full of poorly trained people got out of control, made really terrible decisions, and even worse mistakes, and a lot of people died. I have seen nothing to indicate that Janet Reno sat down with Bill Clinton and said “Let’s us go on down to Texas and kill us a bunch of loonies”.

        Both at Ruby Ridge and Waco really stupid amped-up people made really stupid mistakes which were followed by even more stupid decisions, all of which reflected back on some corruption and lack of discipline and training in the ranks. Both incidents proved what can happen when poorly trained personnel handed high-powered weapons are put in the command of even more poorly trained supervisors.

        But not only did neither episode prove anything more than a level of incompetence that did rise to a criminal level but was, after all, still an escalation of mistakes stemming from one initiating mistake, there has never been any evidence that anyone went to Ruby Ridge with the intent of massacring Randy Weaver and his family, oar that anyone went to Waco with the intent of killing hundreds of innocent people.

        This vile creature, Tim McVeigh, did not just make one stupid mistake and then escalate by making more and more, till it got out of control. No, he plotted and planned for weeks to find a way to butcher as many innocent people as he could, and to even BEGIN to excuse his actions by pretending that they were really a principled message to the government is beneath contempt.

        And so is claiming that the effect of this atrocity was to rein in the Clintons. Bulls**t.

    • neocon01 August 25, 2013 / 10:51 am

      and the BIG LIE continues by the racist hacks..

      “However, sadly, the tears of Trayvon Martin’s mother and father remind us that, far too frequently, the color of one’s skin remains a license to profile, to arrest and to even murder with no regard for the content of one’s character,” he said, calling for “stand your ground” self-defense laws to be repealed in states where they have been enacted.

      sorry but those very laws are enacted to 100% protect us AGAINST the drugged out thugs and monsters like tra von and his ilk

      • Amazona August 25, 2013 / 11:00 am

        So what? If you can believe that Timothy McVeigh was a “patriot” or in any way justified, to any degree, in striking out against people who had absolutely no connection whatsoever to any wrongdoing but just happened to work for, or have business with, the government that he blamed, then what is the difference between that and harboring a grudge against what some white people did to some black people some time in the past and then striking out at other, unconnected, innocent white people at a later date?

      • neocon01 August 25, 2013 / 11:07 am

        So what? If you can believe that Timothy McVeigh was a “patriot” or in any way justified, to any degree,

        I DONT, I pointed out that there are many who do and to those I say they are 100% as wrong I state that here and now….

    • Amazona August 25, 2013 / 10:56 am

      “The klintoon regime got the message loud and clear…you do that to innocent women and children there are “patriots” that will pay you and those who committed those atrocity’s back in spades……”

      This is one of the most offensive and insane things you have ever written, and it bothers me to think you could possibly even entertain such a vile notion. The very idea of referring to McVeigh, or anyone like him, as a “patriot” is so deeply and profoundly offensive, it sickens me.

      Our nation’s true patriots stood up against the oppressors. They were not cowards and snakes who lurked and then struck out at women and children just because they were in a British part of a city. When anyone uses the word “patriot” in any connection with slime like McVeigh he proves he is not only NOT a patriot, he doesn’t even have a clue as to what a patriot IS.

      And just how can you or anyone else even begin to link the people who were targeted in OKC with those who did wrong at Ruby Ridge and Waco? This is not only deeply disturbing, it is just plain crazy, and casts serious doubts on anyone who could even approach such a connection.

      This is not the first time you have implied admiration for McVeigh and excused his atrocity, though you try to avoid doing so openly. Shame on you.

      • neocon01 August 25, 2013 / 11:03 am

        This is not the first time you have implied admiration for McVeigh and excused his atrocity, though you try to avoid doing so openly. Shame on you.

        NOPE…..I merely understand where he was coming from, I think his act was cowardly and despicable as was the klinton administrations actions they are both on the lowest levels of humanity.

      • Amazona August 25, 2013 / 11:20 am

        To use the word “patriot” in the same sentence that claims the outcome of McVeigh’s act was to rein in the Clinton regime is bizarre, and disgusting.

  13. neocon01 August 25, 2013 / 11:20 am

    Ama
    I fully understand the law of Reciprocity, in an old Marines terms If you Fk with the bull you get the horn.That was and is my entire point about TM. I equally condemn the klintoon regime and TM…….I hope I cleared that up…. 🙂
    I do not think TM was a patriot….but there are many screwballs who do and that was my point.

    • Amazona August 25, 2013 / 11:22 am

      And you are still claiming that “the horn” of the massacre in OKC stopped the atrocities it was allegedly protesting.

      There’s a lot of “bull” here but it is on the other end from the horns.

      • neocon01 August 25, 2013 / 11:37 am

        ama

        And you are still claiming that “the horn” of the massacre in OKC stopped the atrocities it was allegedly protesting.

        actually the government, FBI, ATF etc re wrote their rules of engagement after the OKC atrocity.
        I have stated before that I no way agree with TM. but I do recognize his motivations how ever ill conceived they were.
        I also think that 911 was a brilliant stroke of warfare…Do I think was good? NO in fact HELL No

    • Amazona August 25, 2013 / 11:31 am

      According to this Marine Law of Reciprocity, if a Marine corporal goes on a rampage and rapes a woman and shoots an MP, someone somewhere can say well, this guy f***ed with the bull, so he gets “the horn” so he goes out and goes into some on-base housing area on some other base in some other state and kills a dozen or so women and children.

      Yeah, that’ll teach the Corps.

      And if no other Marine corporal rapes a woman and then shoots an MP, the claim can be that this is because of the righteous action of the bomber. Yayyyyyy for the bomber! He’s a PATRIOT, speaking out against atrocity by committing a bigger atrocity!!

      As for “equally” condemning the Clinton regime and McVeigh, I call double bulls**t. What utter crap. Much as I despise Clinton and all he stood and stands for, this is bull. He never plotted for weeks to murder as many hundred women and children as he could. He was a terrible Commander in Chief, and head of agencies that were out of control for lack of leadership, but he was not a McVeigh, and to allot blame “equally” is bull.

      • neocon01 August 25, 2013 / 11:39 am

        you have your opinion and I have mine…….BOTH left dozens of dead women and children.
        Glad to hear your support for a government that uses snipers, tanks, and automatic weapons to cut down innocent civilians I do not share that opinion.

      • neocon01 August 25, 2013 / 12:00 pm

        Amazona August 25, 2013 at 11:31 am

        WOW where did all that come from?
        I either have a major communication problem, or you have a major comprehension problem.
        I have been very very very clear on my stance on OKC and it is not positive.

  14. neocon01 August 25, 2013 / 11:29 am

    ama

    There’s a lot of “bull” here but it is on the other end from the horns.
    ROTFLMAO…

    The writer Gore Vidal yesterday compared the executed Oklahoma bomber Timothy McVeigh to Paul Revere, the hero of American independence.

    In a withering address at the Edinburgh book festival, the liberal novelist and elder statesman of the Gore political dynasty said the former soldier decorated for bravery in the Gulf war wanted to send out a warning that the government had been bought by corporate America and “its secret police, the FBI, were out of control. What McVeigh was saying was, ‘The Feds are coming, the Feds are coming’. ”

    In his strongest identification yet with the man who confessed to blowing up the Federal Building in Oklahoma City in 1995, killing 168 people in retaliation for the FBI’s “slaughter at Waco”, Vidal described him as a “Kipling hero” with an “overdeveloped sense of justice” who did what he did because he was inflamed by the massacre, the FBI’s subsequent cover-up, and the way it “had shredded the bill of rights and the constitution. He was the man who would be king.”

    • Amazona August 25, 2013 / 11:36 am

      And Gore Vidal is the marginally less insane Jeremiah Wright of the Left. Or he USED to be considered marginally less insane. It appears that balance has shifted. Only the certifiably insane could describe McVeigh as having “an overdeveloped sense of justice” and as for the Paul Revere reference, well, this is just more proof that to be a Leftist “intellectual” you don’t have to be smart, or educated, or even basically decent.

      “… a warning that the government had been bought by corporate America ..”

      Oh, give me a break. Now the cowardly butcher is heroically standing up not just against the eeeeeevil Feds but against CORPORATE AMERICA !!!!! What……he was not also taking a stand against poverty, global warming and mean people?

      • neocon01 August 25, 2013 / 11:42 am

        I merely showed you what SOME people think and provided a link..please do not lump me with these Morons. I have told you repeatedly that I do not and did now ever agree with TM or those who praise him….I do however understand their logic but understanding is not agreement. so cut the BS and accusations.

      • neocon01 August 25, 2013 / 11:45 am

        “Oh, give me a break. Now the cowardly butcher is heroically standing up not just against the eeeeeevil Feds but against CORPORATE AMERICA !!!!! What……he was not also taking a stand against poverty, global warming and mean people?”

        those are not my words or opinion, I merely showed you that SOME people disagree with you on this matter……but .NOT ME

      • neocon01 August 25, 2013 / 12:05 pm

        another racist shoots off his pie hole..

        Collin Powell: George Zimmerman Acquittal Will Be Seen as a ‘Questionable Judgement’

      • Amazona August 25, 2013 / 1:18 pm

        I didn’t say you said it. I understand that you were merely quoting Gore Vidal. As a matter of fact, I referred to that in my response. (“And Gore Vidal is the marginally less insane Jeremiah Wright of the Left. Or he USED to be considered marginally less insane. It appears that balance has shifted.”)

        What you DID say was “…you do that to innocent women and children there are “patriots” that will pay you and those who committed those atrocity’s back in spades……” which, in the context of talking about the OKC bombing, means that McVeigh is being called a “patriot”—-and no other sources for that claim were cited. This was YOUR post. You went on to say that it was this atrocity that stopped the others committed by the government, which is balderdash. There were two specific blatant violations of human rights, civil rights, and the law—–Ruby Ridge and Waco. Both were long over by the time McVeigh decided to exhibit his pathology, and to say that the bombing after the fact stopped what was not going on is simply stupid.

        (And, as I said, both were wrong. But they were not officially the policy of the entire government, any more than Mai Lai was, or Abu Ghraib. Bad stupid people with too much power, too much firepower, and too little in the way of morality or intelligence, can do some really awful things, and when there is weak leadership this is more likely to happen.)

        You also say, to me, “Glad to hear your support for a government that uses snipers, tanks, and automatic weapons to cut down innocent civilians” which started off as just stupidly nasty and also, by the way, a lie as I never said, hinted or implied such a thing, and then veered off into the absurd when you went on, in your next post, to accuse ME of having “…a major comprehension problem..”

        Go ahead and argue with what I say, if you must, but please do not invent things I never said so you can snarl at them. I had to go back and re-read this comment to see if dolf or casper were posting under your name.

        And when you say you “..understand their logic..” this baffles me. What logic? You cut me off in traffic so I go to your house and kill your dog? I get mad about what these people did way back when so I ambush those people, who had nothing to do with it, years later? THIS is “logic”? And you UNDERSTAND it?

      • Amazona August 25, 2013 / 1:19 pm

        I started to lose respect for Powell when he made what was so clearly a race-based decision to support Obama in the 2008 election, and since then any lingering respect for his intelligence or his integrity has completely disappeared.

      • neocon01 August 25, 2013 / 1:32 pm

        actually I put quote marks around the word patriot, that indicated it was NOT my words but a description of TM by others.you keep claiming I referred to YM as a patriot and hero….I once again affirm to me he was neither.
        my point being though there are many who felt reno, knintoon, the FBI and ATF were the domestic terrorists.
        I feel they as well as TM were.

      • neocon01 August 25, 2013 / 1:38 pm

        And when you say you “..understand their logic..” this baffles me. What logic? You cut me off in traffic so I go to your house and kill your dog?

        once again you continue to accuse me of something I do not believe. I was merely making a point to another poster and you took up the cause and went into a ranting tirade about what you think I believe which is 1000% wrong.

        these are TM own words on why he did what he did…….ONCE again I believe he was 100% wrong.
        http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/mcveigh/okcwhy.htm

      • Amazona August 25, 2013 / 1:38 pm

        I am very relieved that you do not admire what McVeigh did or find any excuse for it. The sequence of one horrible act in August of 1992 and then another in April of 1993 is hardly a sequence that was brought to a halt by committing an atrocity in April of 1995.

        Interesting though that a hero of the Left, Gore Vidal, thinks so highly of this unprincipled murderer, and odd that he sides with him while stating that the motive was noble and also, by the way, made noble by the actions of the Clinton Administration. Kinda got hisself tangled up there, didn’t he?

      • Amazona August 25, 2013 / 1:39 pm

        ….I do however understand their logic …

      • neocon01 August 25, 2013 / 1:53 pm

        ….I do however understand their logic …

        understanding is ***NOT*** condoning…
        .to TM it was a military type mission against a government he felt was at war against it’s own citizens and used the same brutal force back on them…..this was not road rage or some other nonsense.

      • neocon01 August 25, 2013 / 1:56 pm

        I am very relieved that you do not admire what McVeigh did or find any excuse for it.

        ABSOLUTELY DO I NOT condone or admire TM, what he did what he stood for or his beliefs.
        glad we got that straight WHEW!!
        LOL

      • M. Noonan August 26, 2013 / 12:30 am

        Neocon,

        I’d believe that if he had tried to attack a military post. The thing about these alleged warriors is that they always go after soft targets which, in my mind, proves that murder was their motivation, not whatever cause they claim.

      • Amazona August 25, 2013 / 4:49 pm

        “to TM it was a military type mission against a government he felt was at war against it’s own citizens and used the same brutal force back on them”

        And I do not agree with this. This is what was invented after the fact, in an effort to sanitize what he did, to come up with something that might disguise what it really was. It was NOT a “military type mission”….not unless he was thinking of a military quite different from our own, as we do not do what he did. He brooded for more than two years about things that WERE wrong, but he used them—-and this is the key phrase, HE USED THEM, to try to justify an inexcusable act. But it is all bulls**t. It was not a military type mission. It was not military in nature,and it was not a “mission”. It was an ambush of civilians,in a war that existed only in his own mind.

        “….used the same brutal force back on them”

        Really? Which participants in Ruby Ridge were in that building? Which participants in Waco were in that building? He not only had no reason to think there were any of these people, he didn’t CARE. Because he was not striking out against the government. That claim is complete crap. He was a twisted, pathetic loser who was isolated from society, and he took isolated incidents and blew them up in his own mind to try to generate a “logical” reason to indulge his blood lust. There is always an excuse. Klebold and Harris just wanted to engage in a “military type mission” against a school they felt had declared war on them, and used brutal force against people who never said a bad thing to them. Mohammed Atta felt quite justified in his cause and his own “military type mission”. The Boston Marathon bombers….but why go on? A terrorist is a terrorist, and they all have one excuse or another.

        What ticks me off is those who make those excuses FOR them.

        “your analogies are pure fictitious BS” Really? How about yours? You compare a cowardly ambush of innocent civilians going about their business to a “military type action”. You compare a couple of isolated incidents of individuals going out of control, breaking the law, and attacking American citizens to a “..war against it’s (sic) own citizens..” as if these were ongoing actions.

        Oh, I know, the self-serving excuses for TM are along the lines of ” His goal was to make the government stop doing what it had already stopped doing, and because he did what he did the government continued to stop doing what it had already stopped doing. And he used brutal force against people who did nothing at all, who were not even involved in what he wanted the government to continue not doing, because……well, because…..” and here it runs out of steam because it was BS from the beginning.

        He wanted to feel powerful. Big booms made him feel powerful. Watching babies torn to pieces made him feel powerful. Being the one in charge for a change, instead of the impotent loser who could never do anything right, made him feel powerful. Everything else is just after-the-fact efforts to gloss over what he did by attaching some phony excuses and descriptions to it. But he did what serial killers do, and that is kill people because it made him feel good.

        And if a few other losers sympathize with him, or want to tie their own pathology to his and make him out to have been someone motivated by some noble ideal, blahblahblah, well, there are plenty of morons like this and all of them together aren’t worth a bucket of warm spit.

        BTW, I noticed your default fallback position, that a woman who disagrees with you is just engaging in a ranting tirade. Nice little sexist bigotry there, as well as an effort to deflect away from the fact that you blurted out something that might have sounded different from what you really believe but which you then were too stiff-necked to take back, deciding instead to defend it.

  15. neocon01 August 25, 2013 / 1:48 pm

    your analogies are pure fictitious BS .
    Many Americans thought of the klinton regime as a tyrannical government wildly out of control using military tactics, gear and mninset against AMERICAN people or groups THEY deemed as dangerous….kind of like the present regime and the TEA party. Just they havent resorted to killing us ……yet.

    My mere point was TM was a backlash against that tyranny real or imagined.

    • neocon01 August 25, 2013 / 1:59 pm

      Interesting though that a hero of the Left, Gore Vidal, thinks so highly of this unprincipled murderer

      very weird indeed, but we all know the left loves death….

  16. neocon01 August 25, 2013 / 2:03 pm

    I started to lose respect for Powell when he made what was so clearly a race-based decision to support Obama in the 2008 election, and since then any lingering respect for his intelligence or his integrity has completely disappeared.

    BINGO!!!

  17. neocon01 August 26, 2013 / 10:09 am

    Mark

    Neocon,

    I’d believe that if he had tried to attack a military post. The thing about these alleged warriors is that they always go after soft targets which, in my mind, proves that murder was their motivation, not whatever cause they claim.

    of course you are 100% correct……this whole discourse about TM was a misunderstanding about an answer I posted to norma stazita…………where Ama thought I was praising him and his actions when I was merely pointing out there are SOME who view him to be a “patriot” and a “hero”……I DO NOT hold to that view but I do think the Klinton regime was equally as bad and murderous as was TM……so at the end of the day there was no difference between them….they both have the blood of innocent women and children on their cowardly hands.

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