Well, here we are – the GOP moment of truth, as it were.
For those still hoping for a non-Trump outcome, Tom Coburn has reportedly said he’d stand as an alternative to Trump. It’s a bit weak sauce – the word is he’ll accept the nomination if offered by the delegates, but won’t actively pursue it. Still, it is, finally, something. We’ll see if the Dump Trump forces can make anything of it.
That aside, the most likely outcome is a Trump love-fest leading up to Trump’s acceptance speech. Which might be interesting to watch – I tend not to watch political speeches because they are mostly just boilerplate (this has been especially true with our current President), but I might tune in for Trump’s effort (I plan on avoiding Hillary’s acceptance speech like the plague…can’t imagine putting up with even five minutes of listening to her).
Trump and the GOP go into this very much a divided house and about 5 points behind Hillary. I doubt that Trump can get the #NeverTrump people on board – those who were willing to grit their teeth and back Trump already have; those who are still #NeverTrump at this point are probably not reachable. On the other hand, I’ve thought for months that the only way Trump could possibly win is to bring into the GOP coalition several million (perhaps 5?) people who normally don’t vote at all, let alone vote GOP. He’ll also need at least some normally Democrat voters (and I think he’ll get them – there’s a large number of registered Democrats in the more rural parts of the country whose loyalty to the Democrats is purely nominal).
I don’t know if Trump can do this. For all the complaints about Priebus and the GOP, the RNC has built an allegedly great get out the vote effort – but whether Trump has the discipline to make good use of it is doubtful…but if he’ll at least give the pros their lead and let them do it, then it could work well for him. It likely still won’t be as good as the Democrats effort, but anything better than 2012 is a massive improvement. On the other hand, Trump had pretty much zero GOTV in the primaries and still secured more votes than any GOPer ever has (and, of course, had more GOPers vote against him than ever before, as well).
I don’t think the money-gap is all that important – Hillary does have (and will maintain) a massive lead in money because she’s bought and those who purchased her will do all they can to make certain their investment gains the White House…but Hillary’s team also seems bloated (as all Progressive efforts wind up) and it might not be efficient and flexible enough to take full advantage. At all events, what happened to Jeb demonstrates conclusively that money does not win elections in and of itself – better to have it than not have it, but better to have a message people like than have lots of money.
The battle between Trump and Hillary is fundamentally between two very much disliked people. I don’t trust the polling much – not that it isn’t useful to pick out trends (it is always useful for that – especially if you follow the RCP polling averages), but I think the electorate is all bollixed up this year. Think about it – if Trump does pull in some millions of people who normally don’t vote, they won’t show up in polls of likely voters. Like this: “Hello, this is Mr Pollster and I’m polling for the election. Tell me, did you vote in the last election?” “Why, no, I didn’t” says the guy with MAGA painted in ten foot high letters on his garage door. “Thank you for your time”, says the pollster. Click. It also works the other way – quite a lot of people who did vote in the previous elections will stay home; both GOPers disgusted with Trump and Dems disgusted with Hillary (not quite sure how that will break but I suspect – and it is just a guess – that more GOPers will stay home than Dems). There are still more Democrats than GOPers in the overall electorate so Hillary (like all Democrats running a national campaign) as a built-in advantage…and I think that is where her current polling advantage comes from. But if a bunch of new people do come in and a bunch of regulars stay out, then her advantage is likely illusory.
Do keep in mind the “ifs” I’ve put in there. And if it is a normal election with the normal electorate, then Hillary wins – and wins pretty handily.
I’ve no dog in this hunt – I don’t know how I’ll vote on November 8th in the Presidential election. I may leave it blank – I’m just not sure. I won’t condemn anyone for their vote in 2016. It is entirely a matter of conscience at this point – vote how you think you should. We’ll all see how it comes out.
UPDATE: Well, the first day is sure interesting. Personally, I think Trump erred in not letting the #DumpTrump people have their roll call…it would have taken a while, but it might have helped soothe anyone who is still capable of being soothed. Some aren’t, of course – but it might have looked better if Trump had allowed the vote to go forward. But, that just isn’t Trump’s style – which is another worrisome aspect of his candidacy. Of course, it also isn’t Hillary’s style, nor has it been Obama’s. The two major parties are firmly in the grip of people who are quite ruthless and always willing to kick someone when they’re down.
Blogs For Victory 
Seriously? Is there really fretting that someone might turn down the nomination if offered? Is anyone really worried that Scott Walker would say no if selected? Has the ongoing Cruz courtship of delegates sent the message that he would not run if chosen? Has ANYONE even hinted that he or she would reject such a choice?
I am baffled by the need to have a name, any name, out there before the first ballot. It’s as if the delegates would be paralyzed by the lack of a specific alternative candidate assuring them upfront that it is OK to go against Trump.
Given the brownshirt attack dog tactics of Trump, given the absolute guarantee of a flood of hateful vitriol from him and his thugs aimed at anyone who steps forward, it makes complete sense to me to play all cards close to the vest and wait till the actual voting to have a name come forth. To me, it is just good strategy. Contact the delegates individually, work on the obviously unbound and those with the backbone to stand up to those who claim they are bound, and get past the first ballot so there is no question about being bound or unbound, and then let it all play out on the convention floor.
That makes so much more sense to me than laying out your entire hand at the beginning of the convention, giving the thuggery a target to aim at, setting up the entire convention as just more of the insult-fest gutter-wallowing Trump has made of the whole process so far, and nudging the whole thing into uncontrolled chaos.
As for these mythical switch-voters, I have yet to see anything I think would encourage them to move to Trump. If they are not involved in politics then Hillary probably sounds pretty good to them, a little worn out around the edges, a little dodgy, but sure better than the insane clown she is showing them in her ads. As far as I am concerned, her ad campaign is what is going to tip the balance in her favor, because these ads are not only powerful, when it comes to how they portray Trump they are true. Even his adoring fans can’t deny that he has said and done the things Hillary is spotlighting. All they can do is say none of it matters to them. Fine. We already know nothing matters to them. Trump even gloated about being able to shoot someone in public without losing his fawning fanbots, and instead of finding this insulting to themselves they jumped up and down on their chairs and hooted agreement. THEY are not going to be influenced by those ads. But THEY are so in the bag for Trump he could make good on his bragging and it still wouldn’t matter to them.
I have been polled once, by the RNC, and have been approached several times for money. I have told them all the same thing—-I will vote against Hillary, but I will do so with the feeling of a boot heel on the back of my neck grinding my face into a pile of shit, and that taste and knowing who are responsible for it will never fade. I think this is a good representation of how the Never Trump crowd feels, and when push comes to shove I think they will vote for him because they have no choice. But they will rise against the utter corruption of the GOP a Trump candidacy represents.
The fantasy that people will somehow, miraculously come around to liking Trump, to actually supporting him as a person and not just as the only alternative to Hillary, to being enthusiastic about him, goes far beyond fantasy and well into pathological delusion. Once we are stuck with the gilded toad as our candidate, the Dem long knives will come out and make the current anti-Trump ads look pro-Trump by comparison.
One thing I simply do not get is the apparent belief of some that the anti-Trump crowd just has a superficial animosity toward him personally, it is just a shallow personality thing. I am stunned by the lack of comprehension that this is a rejection of a theme of corruption and stupidity that has taken over the GOP and sold it out. It is so easy to just give a little wrist flip and a casual “Oh, they just don’t like Trump, no big deal, they’ll get over it”. That’s kind of like referring to a melanoma as just a little cosmetic issue, no big deal—it’s like a pimple.
We are going into this election, possibly the most significant one in our history, without a candidate of character and commitment to Constitutional governance, with a long and sordid history of so many kinds of wrongdoing and general bad character it would have made a bad movie (it actually did—-Idiocracy) and counting not on him proving to be better than we know him to be but only on his opposition being so much worse. We’re not betting the whole country on a hand with three aces, or even two kings, but on two threes, hoping Hillary can only come up with two twos. And we are doing it because somehow, for some reason, it plays into a thoroughly corrupt GOP game plan.
I just happen to personally know two-time Obama voters who are heading towards Trump…and it is certain there are about 34 million registered voters who usually don’t vote, at all. Therein lies Trump’s chance, if he has one.
Win or lose, if Trump is the nominee the GOP is headed for an internal revolution.
“Therein lies Trump’s chance, if he has one.”
As long as he is not so polarizing, or Hillary’s ads so effective, that an equal or greater number are not motivated to get out and vote just to stop him.
I’m starting to think his best campaign strategy might be “So I’m an asshole. It’s not illegal. What Hillary does IS.”
I have given up on the presidential election. I’ll vote for Trump if I have to, but I am already supporting individual Senate and House candidates, without going through the RNC, because I think Trump will lose and we will need a strong Congress to stand up to Hillary, as much as anyone can.
I hope Trump wins, if we are stuck with him, but I think he is the GOP choice with their full knowledge he probably won’t.
I think there will be a lot more first time voters voting against Trump than for him. Latinos will be voting in record numbers and once they start voting, they will continue in future elections.
I doubt it – Hillary simply has no appeal to first time voters…
It’s not about Hillary. http://www.politicususa.com/2016/04/27/trumps-wall-backfires-hispanic-voter-registration-skyrockets-face-gop-threat.html
Even taking that into consideration, Hillary lacks appeal to draw in rare or first time voters…Obama had that ability, she doesn’t. I do expect the Latino vote to be larger than usual and for Trump to get firmly trounced in it…but, overall, I expect Hillary’s vote total to be in the 60 million range – about 5 million less than Obama’s 2012 total (and, remember, Obama’s vote total dropped about 4 million between ’08 and ’12 – Romney flopped because he only increased the GOP total by just under a million, while Obama didn’t drop as much as I thought he would – I was expecting Obama to get about 61 million in 2012; and that is why I was wrong in my 2012 prediction…I figured Romney would at least match W’s 62 million of 2004…and possibly punch it up to 65 million, given how eager GOPers appeared in 2012 to oust Obama). On the flip side, I expect the GOP vote of 2012 to drop to about 56 or 57 million as three or four million regular GOP voters abandon the party out of disgust for Trump…which is why I’ve said for a long time now that for Trump to win, he’s going to have to pull in some millions of people who rarely or never vote, as well as some Democrats disaffected from Hillary.
As I’ve also said, if this is a normal election, Hillary wins – and wins rather handily, perhaps with even a larger percentage of the vote than Obama’s 51% in 2012 (but no more than, say, 52 or 53%). But if Trump can reconfigure the electorate by bringing in 5 million or so new/rare voters and a million of two disaffected Democrats, then he’ll beat Hillary by about 1 or 2 million votes.
He’d better get lots and lots of new voters, as the man who said “Women—you gotta treat ’em like shit” and told Vanity Fair he left Ivana for “a great piece of ass” is probably not going to do well with women, and the guy who claimed that his years of being a billionaire socialite whoremonger were the equivalent of fighting in Viet Nam and made him consider himself “a great and very brave soldier” isn’t going to draw in a lot of veterans, families of veterans, people who lost loved ones in Viet Nam, etc. That is three big demographics (including Latinos) he probably can’t count on.
But back to the big question—why, given Trump’s obvious defects as a candidate, does the GOP defend him, protect him, and do everything it can to shove him down our throats? Hillary is such a deeply flawed candidate it seems that pretty much any decent, articulate and reasonable candidate could beat her, yet the GOP has focused on the one person least likely to be able to do so.
I’ve no dog in this hunt – I don’t know how I’ll vote on November 8th in the Presidential election. I may leave it blank – I’m just not sure. I won’t condemn anyone for their vote in 2016. It is entirely a matter of conscience at this point – vote how you think you should. We’ll all see how it comes out.
That’s kind of where I’m at. I ran into a friend and Trump supporter at the Y last week. He and his wife have been on the Trump wagon since he first announced, so every time either of them sees me they ask if I’ve decided to vote for Trump. And, of course, my answer has always been, i’ll jump off that bridge when and if he becomes the actual nominee. The roll call of states is tomorrow night, so we don’t have to wait much longer. If Trump is indeed the nominee, then I’m thinking I will not vote for Hillary, which, according to conventional logic, is an automatic vote for Trump.
What I am seeing is people dazzled by the persona of Trump. Every excuse I have been given for liking him fails the smell test and comes down to a general vague feeling that he is really a good guy.
Schwartz explains a lot of this in the article linked by Casper—Schwartz helped create the fantasy that so many are counting on for their allegiance to the guy. Much of the startstruck attitude is based on Trump lies—well, he’s gotta be mega-smart, if he graduated first in his class from Wharton, you gotta be a genius to even get INTO Wharton. Except he didn’t and he didn’t. He got into the University of Pennsylvania, home to Wharton, thanks to family connections, and then he took a couple of undergrad courses at Wharton. Huge difference.
“He must be smart to have made so much money”. Well, no, not really, not smart in a good way. Smart in a bad way, such as understanding that working with the Mob will help make you rich. Smart in being able to con people into paying up front for property he then never bothers to build. Not so smart in simply lying about how rich he really is—though maybe he IS smart, as he seems to have figured out that a lot of morons will believe him.
But when you strip away the feeble efforts to find or invent a credible reason to like him, it always comes down to Identity Politics, and some people are dazzled by what they see. They may not want to admit that they are suckered in by the wealth, or the illusion of greater wealth than there really is, but that is what it comes down to. That is the only reason to ignore, or dismiss, the ugly reality that is Trump.
The Obama voters I know who are drifting towards Trump are people who still like Obama, but absolutely cannot stand Hillary…nor the old GOP. Trump’s words about keeping SS as it is and other such bows to Big Government Progressivism are finding some fertile ground out there. I know people who are inherently conservative but who always vote Democrat because they do fear that the GOP will just kick them to the curb and let them starve if things get rough…this isn’t at all true, but Democrat propaganda on this over decades has been effective. But Hillary is so clearly corrupt that they are willing, this time, to pull the GOP lever.
“The Obama voters I know who are drifting towards Trump are people who still like Obama, but absolutely cannot stand Hillary…nor the old GOP.” This is pretty funny, as everything Trump stands for IS the “old GOP”. The NEW GOP, Cruz and Lee and Gardner, et al, were shut down and shut out by the old GOP.
I want you to be right, but I see so much about Trump and this election that appears to be nothing more than wishful thinking.
Oh, don’t get me wrong – Trump is probably going to lose. But I guess I should have phrased that better – they can’t stand what they perceive as the old GOP. It’s like Venerable Bishop Sheen’s comment re: anti-Catholics…they don’t hate what Catholics believe, but what they mistakenly think Catholics believe.
But I’m also not going to do any hard and fast predictions for 2016 – I think that there are so many variables that we really can’t say for sure what will happen. Those predicting a Trump blowout are only bit more silly in their predictions than those predicting a Hillary blowout.
Interesting article. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-tells-all
He didn’t tell all, but he told some. For example, he didn’t explain that when Trump claims he has donated so much money to charities, what he has donated has been related to his businesses—a golf trip, for example, highly overpriced for the sake of the write-off, but no actual cash from his personal account. He didn’t go into Trump’s early foray into NY real estate where he paid more than market value to a close relative of a Mob figure, then built on the site using poured concrete instead of the steel framing or precast used by other builders and which cost more, using the concrete firm of another Mob relative. In other words, he was laundering money for the Mob, and to build the project he brought in illegals from Poland and paid them something like $5 per hour.
I have never asked myself the question “What would it take for me to feel contempt for Rudy Guiliani?”
If I had, it would have been answered tonight.
Haven’t been watching – more fun to follow it on Twitter. But the Mrs was put off by Melania’s speech…nothing particularly wrong with her, but Mrs couldn’t imagine Melania reading a book to a kindergarten class…as the Mrs is the wisest observer of politics I’ve ever come across (and always proves 100% in line with the American majority), I think Team Trump better try Menlania out in settings like that. Without the $10,000 dress…
I saw a moment or two of Melania on local TV news and was not impressed. Guiliani looked jacked up on speed and I thought made a fool of himself, obviously shooting for the WWE effect that has Trump supporters all jazzed up.
If we are stuck with Trump, I want him to win. Obviously. I hope your analysis is right. It’s just that I figure if those of us out here in the sticks know he was repeatedly investigated by federal agencies for a variety of things, I am sure that Hillary, with her contacts, knows exactly what he was suspected of doing. The only upside to that is that she is hardly in a position to throw stones at someone for being investigated and not charged.
I’m with Mike Lee on his take on the GOP, and look forward to some major changes in the party. Kudos to the Colorado contingent for standing on principle and making a point. A state official tried to convince me I should not blame the party for Trump, that the party just has to go with who the voters want, though he did agree that I made a good point when I reminded him that something like 60% of the voters did NOT want Trump. I guess now I can get back to him with proof that the party DID push for Trump, as shown by its refusal to allow non-Trumpers a voice at the convention.
What a farce.
“Without the $10,000 dress…”
The world has already seen her without the $10,000 dress. Or any dress, for that matter. 😉
And if she did pay ten grand for that dress she shouldn’t be trusted with any major decisions. I thought it was butt ugly.
Moment of truth, moment of shame, whatever
GOP CONVENTION
Evidently a non-event. I don’t know when I have seen such a complete lack of interest and enthusiasm for what should be a celebration of the party’s excitement for its candidate.
OK, so it has never been a real convention, but just a rubber stamp. OK, so the best anyone can say about Trump is that his kids love him and think he’s like, you know, like the best dad EVER. Newt has gotten so gaga that he thinks a preference for big-haired big-breasted women has some kind of political message if one of them is from another country. Ted Cruz gave a classy speech with a few boos at the end when he did not endorse Trump and since then the Complicit Agenda Media coverage has been that he was “booed off the stage”. When you end your speech and are walking off the stage as a few Trumpists act like Trumpists, it takes the Complicit Agenda Media to put the right Trumpist spin on it. And naturally Mr.-Bringing-The-Party-Back-Together-Again was back to his Twittering nastiness about Cruz. I guess he’s trying to show how presidential we can expect him to be. I’m just waiting for a Trump campaign official to put out a fatwah on Cruz, like he did the delegate from Utah.
It’s been a complete snooze, accomplishing little more that the party establishing a war on two fronts—–Hillary and conservatives—-and we all know how smart that is.
Actually, it was Trump tweeting Cruz was booed off stage.
“Wow, Ted Cruz got booed off the stage, didn’t honor the pledge! I saw his speech two hours early but let him speak anyway. No big deal!”
SIGNS OF THE TIMES
It’s a sign of the times when the “news” coverage of the Cruz speech focuses on his evidently incendiary request of Republicans to support Republicans in the upcoming election without following the example of others and giving Trump a big slobbery tongue kiss. He congratulated Trump on his nomination, and he never said a negative word about him or said he would not vote for him or asked anyone else to not vote for him. Yet he is being savaged by Trumpkins and the Complicit Agenda Media alike, for not going far enough and overtly sticking his nose into Trump’s underwear. (Of course there isn’t much room in there any more, what with Newt elbowing everyone aside for best position and Sarah and Laura crowded in there with him.)
The reason this is a sign of the times is that this is the focus instead of the thuggery of Trumpkins who verbally assaulted and physically crowded Mrs. Cruz and her father in law, who were seated in the crowd. ( emphasis mine )
“Former Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli told ABC News that he escorted Heidi Cruz out of the convention hall because “it was volatile and the Trump folks were physically approaching and confrontationally yelling,” he said via text.
“People behind her were getting very ugly, and physically approaching her and Raphael, and it was not a pretty situation,” Cuccinelli told ABC. “The decision was instantly made to not talk to media and get immediately out of the arena.”
“People from my own delegation were physically approaching her while yelling at her. So, I physically moved media out of her way, and got in the way of my own delegation so she could clear by and get out of the arena,” he said.”
Trumpkins have gotten a pass on this kind of reprehensible behavior. I don’t know if this is because this kind of despicable behavior is just part of the way Americans act now and isn’t particularly newsworthy, or—much more likely—-it has become so commonplace with Trump and his supporters it just doesn’t seem like “news” any more. Another day, another intimidation, another threat, another attack. Ho hum, it’s just life in Trumpland.
When we are talking about thuggery, about physical threats against people who do not support our own preferred candidate, does it really matter if the thugs are wearing brown shirts or pin stripes or Trump T shirts?
I can foresee an entire Trump presidency marked by this kind of bully-boy tactics. It is what got him to the nomination, and sadly it is the raw red meat he tosses to his slavering acolytes who can’t get enough of it.
Another example of a new Sign of the Times is that a Trump said someone else was “classless” and there was evidently no snickering.
I’m not seeing so much of the Complicit Media piling on. All the Cruz flack seems to be coming from Team Trump and the GOP.
Which takes us back to the sense that this was all a setup by Trump—invite Cruz and don’t make the invitation dependent on him endorsing you, vet the speech hours before and raise no objection, appear to be approving of the speech and applauding it, then turn around and accuse Cruz of doing something wrong. As for the mob scene at the convention itself, and the bully-boy intimidation tactics toward Mrs. Cruz and Ted’s father, well that is just what we have come to expect from Trumpkins.
When we are talking about thuggery, about physical threats against people who do not support our own preferred candidate, does it really matter if the thugs are wearing brown shirts or pin stripes or Trump T shirts?
There are two areas, well, at LEAST two areas, where Republicans can’t hold a candle to Democrats: free stuff and thuggery, and no amount of practice or imitation of the latter is going to change that. The fact that they’re even trying doesn’t bode well for the future of this country.
It’s not so much that they are doing it that bothers me—there will be rabble anywhere. It is that it is ACCEPTED. It is not only not excoriated by the media, it is part of what is now the leadership of the Republican Party.
The Republican Party nominated a man to represent it in the presidential election who overtly encouraged a violent mob mentality in his followers. He egged them on, he offered to pay their legal fees if they were arrested for attacking people who did not support him, he based his campaign on libel and slander, he personally threatened delegates to the convention by warning them that he was going to find out where they were all staying, and he dragged what was evidently a willing if not eager party into the gutter with him.
I have said that nominating Trump would mark the official merging of the two parties, and the thuggery that defines so much of Trumpdom, which is so like that of the Left, seems to bear out that observation. What I find so interesting is that the thuggery on the Left has, at least so far, not been publicly endorsed and encouraged by the leadership of the Democrat Party. It has been on the lunatic fringe, the Occupy crowd, and while the administration has given tacit approval to black violence Obama has not come right out and supported it.
As a Republican, it is both humiliating and frightening to see my party assume leadership in this area. Now I will watch, with some trepidation, to see what the bully-boys and thugs do with the power the party has handed them. If they direct their tactics toward the political bullying of the Left, it will be interesting to watch, and I will cheer them on. If they continue to act as if Trump is a god and disapproving of him is tantamount to treason, I will mourn for the downfall of the nation as it picks up velocity in its death spiral.
I’ve made my decision to vote Libertarian. Ted Cruz is right, I cannot in good conscience vote for a guy like Trump.
We should all vote for our conscience(s) in 2016 and for Cruz in 2020!
My first impulse, as Trumpkins started to dominate the primary cycle, was to both register as a Libertarian and vote that way. However, I have changed my mind, for two reasons.
One is that while the GOP is increasingly Progressive and corrupt, the Libertarian Party is just plain downright goofy, and I can’t take it seriously in its current incarnation. True, a mass exodus of conservatives to the party would dilute the silliness enough to make it viable, and it does have a great name. But the same number of Republicans mounting a revolt within the party will take over the party. We have to remember, the hard-core conservatives are ideologues, while Trumpkins have a much more shallow and easily diverted political attention span and can’t be counted on to do the heavy lifting of a serious political party.
And the other is that while I think Trump is terrible, I still think he is less terrible than Hillary. Perhaps there is not much difference on a personal level, but Trump is more malleable, and likely to do far less harm. I think he would be susceptible to pressure to nominate good Court justices, which is really all I could ask of him.
As I have said before, I fear him less as a president, where (in spite of his narcissism, his infantile oppositional personality disorder and his abject ignorance) he can theoretically be led, pushed and/or pressured into doing a few good things and hopefully restrained from doing too many bad things, than I do as a candidate, where he has to overcome those things to gain the office.
In an ideal election, decisions would be made from the top down, priority-wise—in other words, a choice would be made based on who is the best candidate for the job. In a Clinton/Trump race, the choice is bottom-up—-who is the worst?
My conscience would not allow me to support Trump as a nominee, but once the choice is between him and Hillary that same conscience will not allow me to refuse to do my part, small as it might be, to keep her out of the White House. A vote for anyone but Trump would, to me, be a childish temper tantrum sort of thing that might convey a fleeting sense of having made a point but which would, in the long run, achieve nothing of value.
As I have said, I will vote for Trump but with the sense that it is only because of a bootheel on the back of my neck grinding my face into a pile of shit. and that lingering taste is what will drive me to get rid of the people who made it necessary. Because I do think it is necessary.
In the meantime, my money will go to individual candidates for the House and Senate, to try to keep a Congressional majority. The RNC doesn’t even need to bother me with its begging. When I hear from them, and I often do, I tell them the same thing.
Choosing Trump over Hillary because she is worse is like saying share a tent with Grizzly Bear rather than a Polar Bear. I’m going to get shredded either way.
So, considering my vote for or against Trump will have absolutely no impact on net result – the country is going to get shredded – I will hop on my moral high-horse and not place a vote I will surely regret later having made.
What made the decision for me was the way Trump supporters treated Heidi Cruz, which was startlingly reminiscent of Lara Logan’s experience in Egypt. I do not believe Trump commands these modern day Brown Shirts, but he certainly does speak to their hearts and does nothing to discourage it.
Can you imagine being a German in 1946, ashamed you voted for Hitler in ’34 because you thought he’d be good for jobs? Trump is not evil, he is not Hitler, but his followers are the same as Hitler’s and I can not in good conscience vote for him, even if that puts a Clinton in office for a term.
I’m standing with Ted Cruz.
Bob, I not only understand how you feel, to some extent I agree with it. I merely veer away, slightly, in how I want to look back at the election, and I think I will be more comfortable with my conscience if I know I did my bit, no matter how small, to keep Hillary out of the White House than I would if I merely expressed my disgust with Trump with what would be an essentially meaningless gesture. One vote won’t make a difference—but look at all the people who voted for Perot, thinking “my vote won’t really make a difference, but it will send a message”. And it did. It sent the message that in a two party system, which we have now whether we like it or not, a third party vote CAN make a difference. I was one of those people who voted for Perot for much the same reason you say you will not vote at all, and I have regretted it ever since. I’ve already gone through the same calculation you are going through now, though admittedly on a much smaller scale as neither of the serious candidates was anywhere near as awful as Donnie or Hillary, and for me I believe I made the wrong choice and I have decided not to do that again.
I do not agree that a Trump presidency would be as bad for the nation as a Clinton one. I may be proved wrong, and Trump’s bullheaded oppositional personality disorder may force him to do the opposite of what he has had to do to try to calm conservative fears, which was to give us a promise that any SCOTUS nominee of his will come from a certain list of people. He might get as far as the Oval Office and do a massive Up Yours and do exactly what the voices in his head tell him to do, no matter what anyone else says or does. That is a possibility, and if he were to go completely off the rails it would be a problem.
But I see that as a possibility with Trump, while with Hillary it is a guarantee.
‘…Trump is not evil, he is not Hitler, but his followers are the same as Hitler’s..”
….but they won’t be making decisions. They will, in fact, find themselves having to deal with derision and scorn and a whole bucketful of “I told you so” every time Donnie puts his foot in it. I predict a backlash against the Trumpery, the thuggishness, and the low class way this whole thing has been handled, now that the mobs have prevailed and their idol has gotten the recognition they think he deserves.
Except he hasn’t. He got the nomination, but no new followers. No new “enthusiasm”. No new energy. What energy there was was from the same old same old WWE-type mob, Donnie’s own kids and wife, and a washed-up East Coast ex-mayor hyped up on a carton of NoDoz and a six-pack of Red Bull and prepped by watching junior high cheerleaders at pep rallies.
And Chachi.
That’s gotta sting. And now that he has the nomination and the opposition is not other Republicans but the Dems, the dynamic will change, and the mobs are going to be shown to be low class jerks. Republicans can’t get too aggressive in calling other Republicans low class jerks, but Hillary has no such restrictions, and I am sure Trumpkins will not like what they see said about them.
Ted Cruz is already being touted as having given a classy, dignified, speech in which he showed himself to be a man of principle, while Donnie’s acceptance speech was factually inconsistent as well as belligerent and amateurish.
Let me throw one more thing out there and then I’ll let the matter drop.
If you had to choose one, who would you choose to babysit your kids/grandkids/gerbil – John Wayne Gacy or Jeffrey Dahmer? Sure, Dahmer is safer because kids weren’t his thing, but I’d hate to tell police later that night “But I HAD to choose one of them…”
Seeing as the kids are getting killed regardless of my pick, I’m not going on the record as saying I chose either of them.
Plus, maybe the Libertarians can push above 15% and become a real party. Then my vote genuinely WILL count for something, a third viable party.
OK, I am officially off my high-horse now.
“a carton of NoDoz and a six-pack of Red Bull ”
Hey, man, you plagiarized Jon Stewart, Melania. What is the word coming to that stalwart conservatives like yourself the the right proper, Mrs. Trump III are ripping off liberals. A strange world indeed.
Seriously? Someone else used those references? That is what popped into my mind during the few seconds I could stand to watch Rudy doing everything but back flips back and forth across the stage with his eyes bulging out. I wouldn’t have the slightest idea of anything Jon Stewart says, so it is clearly just the most obvious explanation for Rudy’s flip-out. Your comment on “plagiarizing” is kind of like saying that if more than one person makes a comment on a sunset or a wreck, all but the first are plagiarizing the first.
As for your choice, it is not even relevant. Unless you think that Trump and Clinton pose basically equal propensities for serial murder, differing only in style, and the choice is who will take care of your child. Simply too obtuse and irrelevant. You might be closer to the mark if your choice is between Hitler and Jimmy Carter. As I think both Trump and Clinton pose dangers to the nation, the choice is between which is more, well, dangerous.
Hillary’s biggest threat: SCOTUS appointments. Donald’s threat in that arena: Minimal. As this is a decision that will affect and possibly even alter the rule of law in this nation for decades, if the reluctance to overturn SCOTUS decisions is any indication, I think on this score alone Donnie is by far the least dangerous and Hillary is lethal.
Peddling government influence for personal enrichment: Hillary way ahead on points. Donnie a much less dangerous option.
Inability to handle international crises effectively: Hillary a proven failure, Donnie as yet untested.
And so on.
No, my main objection to Trump is that he is so likely to lose the election because he is so deeply and profoundly flawed, but as president I don’t think he would nearly as big a problem as Hillary. I am embarrassed to be a member of a party represented by Trump. I think he is a vulgar, crass, ignorant, narcissistic, unethical person. But we have survived bad presidents in the past. In the upcoming election, there is a difference, in that the worst president the nation has ever seen, the one who has done the most damage to every aspect of life in America including its very foundational rule of law, has set the stage for more of the same with Clinton, whereas in the past we have had the ability to recover from the damage done by a truly bad president. Electing Hillary without an interval of repair of damage already done could be a death sentence for the nation as a republic governed by our Constitution. I don’t think Trump poses nearly the same kind or degree of danger to the country.
He turns my stomach and I hate the thought of having to vote for him, but I see his biggest danger to the nation right now being a really bad choice to try to defeat Hillary.
My biggest gripe right now is not Trump—that would be like getting mad at a snake for biting you. It is the mindset of so many Americans that finds him not only acceptable but desirable as a leader. We can survive a President Trump, and I can even see how some of his more objectionable traits could even be helpful in addressing some problems, problems that have been allowed to grow because of squeamishness on the part of squishy politicians. I feel less optimistic about a nation so full of the kinds of people we have seen supporting him. It is like turning over the nation to WalMartians and the population of Idiocracy.