Open Thread

The Experts are still talking up how Trump is doomed…but:

The Republican National Committee (RNC) continues to bring in lots of money thanks to the House Democrats’ impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump.

The RNC’s fundraising platform has brought in over $30 million in three months since it launched in June. Officials credit the impeachment inquiry.

That’s a lot of scratch…and while we can’t say for certain what it means, the fact that its happening does say that Trump and the GOP are popular somewhere in the country. Trump is already teeing up general election ads and its more than 13 months from election day…and Democrats won’t get started on a general election campaign for at least five months. You ask anyone who really does politics and if he gets to pick which situation he’s in, he’s going to pick Trump’s.

Meanwhile, our Matt takes note other another aspect of it:

Democrat Senators from red states have expressed concern that the impeachment process started by Nancy Pelosi “may spin out of control and destroy any chance their party might have of winning back the majority next year,” according to a report from The Hill. These Democrats believe that if their party doesn’t act quickly, Trump could “turn the tables on them.”

Would Manchin or, especially, Jones (who is up for re-election next year in a Trump +30 State) really vote to convict?

In case you were wondering how our liberals are dealing with things:

Recently, I went to dinner at the home of Rebecca Kee, a preschool principal in San Francisco who turned to Maddow in her depression and confusion over the 2016 election. I brought a bottle of rosé, and she poured it into glasses decorated with charms that featured Russia-investigation figures on one side and characters from “Star Trek: The Next Generation” on the other. I sipped from the Hope Hicks/Beverly Crusher glass, and we watched Maddow’s show over veggie enchiladas. “I think of her as a news doula: You know the news is going to be painful no matter what, so we might as well have someone who helps us survive it,” Kee told me. Last year, Kee had a Maddow-themed birthday party, at which her friends and her two young sons put on big black glasses and slicked their hair to the side. Also in attendance was a life-size cardboard cutout of Maddow, which is now in storage so as not to startle guests.

These people have lost it. If we don’t win next year, then we deserve every bit of what’s coming to us.

Report indicates that red meat isn’t all that bad for you – which is another “of course”. The campaign against red meat – like previous campaigns against eggs or coffee – were ridiculous efforts by various puritan scolds who got fixated on a thing and then tried to force us all to go along. The key to human diet is moderation – eat the red meat; have the cake; drink the beer…but don’t eat ten pounds of red meat a day; don’t have the whole cake; after two or three beers, ease off. We’re built – by God or Nature, take your pick – to eat pretty much everything there is. My view is that we must have a varied diet to be healthy. To tell anyone to entirely eliminate a food or heavily concentrate on only one thing seems to me rather insane.

117 thoughts on “Open Thread

  1. Amazona October 3, 2019 / 5:07 pm

    This simple statement explains the words used by President Trump when he talked about looking into the Biden pressure to fire the Ukrainian prosecutor:

    …this call relates to a DOJ inquiry publicly announced months ago to uncover exactly what happened. The DOJ simply requested the President provide introductions to facilitate that ongoing inquiry, and he did so, that’s all.”

    Why isn’t this being said over and over, loudly and often? It makes complete sense, points out that the DOJ investigation had been “publicly announced” months before the call, and points out why Trump mentioned his AG and Giuliani.

    It completely shoots down the drooling Left’s hysterical narrative. And this is the first time I have seen it.

    • Cluster October 3, 2019 / 5:36 pm

      Why isn’t this being said over and over, loudly and often?

      Well it’s because of that highly effective RNC messaging center /sarc

      So “people around the world want to invest in Joe Biden”? Interesting. Is he a corporate business titan? A highly specialized engineer wanting to open up a new market or maybe a renowned surgeon looking to innovate new practices? NOPE. But he has been a politician for 50 years and occupied a position where he had nearly direct control of legislation, regulations and American tax payer money. By golly, I think we have our answer.

      • Amazona October 3, 2019 / 7:09 pm

        By golly, I think we have our answer.….and it came from his own son.

        BTW, is bragging about your corruption a genetic quirk? The Biden men just can’t seem to stop themselves.

  2. Cluster October 3, 2019 / 5:45 pm

    I guess they are all willing to go down with the ship but at this point they couldn’t bail themselves out if they wanted to so they are ALL IN:

    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi falsely claimed that Democratic Rep. Adam Schiff’s “dramatic interpretation” of President Donald Trump’s transcript with Ukraine was “the president’s own words” in an interview on ABC News Thursday.

    Schiff’s “parody” was an impeachable offense in my opinion. It could not have been further from the truth but Democrats are doubling down on this sh*t.

    https://dailycaller.com/2019/10/03/pelosi-schiff-ukraine-transcript-real/?fbclid=IwAR0k7FdFjhFnjZCE_8ms6p1NibdfwbcVN5NLin6LiBkgogBq-Lv92D-9TNA

    • Amazona October 3, 2019 / 7:11 pm

      You have to admit, it would be funny to bring impeachment charges against both Schiff and Pelosi, for their lies. They are both so blatant, and because they are both told to further a fraud it might actually be some kind of punishable offense. Maybe we can get them to repeat them under oath.

      • Cluster October 3, 2019 / 7:12 pm

        Just heard that Trump is sending Pelosi a letter refusing to comply with any House subpoena until she holds a floor vote on articles of impeachment. Great move.

  3. rgrg2 October 3, 2019 / 10:20 pm

    I’d love to get your position on whether you think it is appropriate for the president of the United States to call on foreign governments to interfere with the 2020 presidential election, to investigate his political rivals, and to use the foreign policy of the United States in furtherance of his own personal political aims. Does this concern you on any level at all? Maybe you would like to go back to the Founders and tell us what they had to say about such behavior? I know you’ll delete this, but maybe one of two of you could get around to addressing these questions, since this is the fundamental issue now before us. Mark? Anyone?

    • Amazona October 4, 2019 / 1:01 am

      The only way to answer your question is to rephrase it so it makes sense:

      …whether you think it is WOULD BE appropriate for the president of the United States to call on foreign governments to interfere with the 2020 presidential election, to investigate his political rivals, and to use the foreign policy of the United States in furtherance of his own personal political aims.

      And to that, the answer is, obviously, there are three questions there in your hypothetical. No to calling on foreign governments to interfere in ANY election—which is the basis of one of the investigations that have you people so freaked out, but it is about the DNC et al approaching Ukraine for that very thing. No problem with investigating people if they are also “political rivals”–that should not insulate them from justice. And I reject the silly concept that a president should worry that his actions as president might also “further his own personal political aims”.

      And BTW, it is also inappropriate for the Vice President of the United States, and/or the Secretary of State of the Unite States, to use his/their power and influence to enrich family members and, possibly, themselves.

      You also misstate “the fundamental issue before us”. The fundamental issue before us is the weaponization of a process designed to allow Congress to deal with a president who is abusing his power or otherwise acting in a way not in accordance with his job and using it, instead, to destroy a political rival. As we see this unfolding, we see rampant abuse of the positions of power of some in Congress, and media evolving from mere complicity with a political agenda to outright corruption. We are seeing a coordinated effort to mislead the American public, and a callous disregard for the damage this is doing to the nation.

      As posted earlier today, ..…this call relates to a DOJ inquiry publicly announced months ago to uncover exactly what happened. The DOJ simply requested the President provide introductions to facilitate that ongoing inquiry, and he did so, that’s all.

      By the artificial and arbitrary standard you and people like you are trying to impose, the president of the United States could do nothing but be an impotent figurehead. For example, if he or she were to negotiate the removal of missiles from North Korea by agreeing to remove or reduce sanctions on that country ( a quid pro quo) a political enemy (and make no mistake, the Left has gone well beyond “political opponent” into ENEMY) could use this as the basis for attack, as such a success would increase the president’s popularity and possibly his or her chances of reelection. The claim could be, and given the rage and hatred and sheer venom and lack of decency we have seen from the Left probably would be, that this was done to“..use the foreign policy of the United States in furtherance of his (or her) own personal political aims.

      What is increasingly obvious is that any serious investigation into corruption in Ukraine, at least anything connected with the collusion between the Left and Ukraine to smear Trump leading up to the election and/or anything to do with the sweetheart deal Hunter Biden got from a corrupt Ukrainian company after it had millions funneled into it following intervention by Joe Biden and John Kerry, is going to raise the Left to new levels of brutal attack and reprisal. The degree of reaction to these possibilities is telegraphing their importance and the degree of threat they pose to the Left.

      Not only is your argument based on a series of blatant lies, it leads to some bizarre conclusions, such as that Joe Biden should be immune from any investigation into any of his activities by any Republican administration as long as he is in politics. But, as you people are so hung up on the idea someone using his position for political gain, people like Jerrold the Hutt Nadler and Adam Schiff are clearly indicting themselves, using taxpayer dollars and their positions to promote themselves and their party at the expense of the morale of the nation.

      It’s a thoroughly despicable piece of theater, and while I am not surprised that you are eager to be part of it I have to say that to accept it, approve of it and enable it requires either a seriously defective character or an alarming level of stupidity—and I realize that for some the two are not mutually exclusive.

      Don’t even bother to regurgitate the lies, inventions, interpretations, attributions of intent and motive or any of the other toxic mental sludge you and your kind have been churning up for weeks now. It’s disgusting and so are those who peddle it.

      That’s my position. Anyone?

      • Amazona October 4, 2019 / 12:19 pm

        Do you mean these text messages:

        “…… new encrypted text messages obtained by Fox News show Volker and other U.S. officials battling internally last month over whether Trump was engaged in a “quid pro quo” with Ukraine as he pressed for the country to look into the Biden family, while holding back U.S. aid. The texts with Volker, U.S. Ambassador to the EU Gordon Sondland and Chargé d’Affaires of the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine Bill Taylor indicate that the nature of a potential arrangement between the U.S. and Ukraine was a matter of dispute.

        “As I said on the phone, I think it’s crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign,” Taylor said in a text exchange.

        Sondland responded by saying that was not what was happening. “Bill, I believe you are incorrect about President Trump’s intentions. The President has been crystal clear: no quid pro quo’s of any kind. The President is trying to evaluate whether Ukraine is truly going to adopt the transparency and reforms that President Zelensky promised during his campaign.”

        Damning? Damning Taylor as a Deep State partisan buying into and then regurgitating Leftist talking points, yes. Damning for Trump? The opposite.

      • Cluster October 4, 2019 / 8:16 am

        RG, you’re link is to a letter written by Elijah Cummings and Adam Schiff, two people who have lied repeatedly over the last 3 years. Adam Schiff explicitly said over a year ago that he had factual hard evidence that Trump was a Russian agent. Do you find that lie to be concerning? Is it ok for Congress members to willfully lie about the President of the United States with no consequences?

        I hope your posts are not deleted because this is a very teachable moment. First of all, whatever the president does in office promotes his personal and political agenda. That’s what he ran on, and that’s what he was voted in for. Secondly. Trump is looking into 2016 election interference, not 2020 interference, something of which the media and Democrats purportedly wanted to get to the bottom of. It’s not Trump’s fault that those investigations lead to Ukraine, China, and Australia. Politico, which isn’t exactly a conservative publication, published the following in January of 2017:

        https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446

        It’s also not Trump’s fault that the Biden’s are ending up in the cross hairs, that’s their fault for engaging in suspicious business activity with Ukraine and China. That is also called draining the swamp. I do have a question for you … why is the Clinton Global initiative out of business? There are still hungry impoverished people around the world. It just seems odd that that “charity” dried up right after the 2016 election. Do you think it’s because foreign governments who contributed heavily to that charity suddenly lost interest in being charitable? Also, what would you think if Don Jr. suddenly landed a very lucrative position on a foreign corporate board in an industry he has no experience in? Would you want to look into that? I know I would.

        It is perfectly acceptable to call on foreign governments to look into corruption with American officials especially considering those foreign governments were also involved. Wouldn’t it be nice to root out world wide corruption? That would actually be the answer to why we have so many problems in the world. Mexico could be one of the richest countries in the world if it wasn’t so corrupt. I hope you would agree with me that we should also look into that to help the impoverished Mexican people. Do you support that?

  4. Cluster October 4, 2019 / 8:26 am

    Just one glance at the letter RG linked to written by Adam Schiff and I saw that it is full of lies. Adam and Elijah say that Trump repeatedly asked Ukraine to interfere in the 2020 election … Trump did not. They claim that Trump asked China to open up a “sham” investigation of the Biden’s … Trump did not. Trump mentioned that considering Hunter’s dubious activities in China that they might want to look into that … and they should. These are just two of the untruths.

    RG I know the people you listen to because I listen to the same ones and they are lying to you. Straight up LYING. I have never seen anything like it. Every day I watch MSNBC and they are straight up stone cold liars. Please do some more reading of publications of every influence and you will begin to see the trail of deception the Democrats and the Deep State have propagated.

    • Amazona October 4, 2019 / 10:36 am

      Cluster, the letter is not simply “full of lies”. It is, from beginning to end, nothing BUT a lie, a lie with several branches. I started to address the lies and realized I would have to address nearly every word in it except an occasional pronoun.

      One thing that struck me was its lack of professionalism. This letter was clearly written to appeal to the ignorant masses. No competent professional would use terms like “sham investigation” much less claim the president ordered one to begin. And its lies are BLATANT. No one who has read the actual transcript can find in it any of the things the letter asserts.

      But, speaking of “sham”……a couple of things to note about this whole charade. I have commented that merely making a theatrical speech saying an inquiry into impeachment had been started was, essentially, meaningless. However, I underestimated the sheer depravity of Nancy Pelosi—something I would have thought impossible. She merely changed the rules of the House to allow the process to proceed without an official declaration, which would have kicked the rules into play and Republicans would have become participants, allowed to subpoena, question, etc.

      How many articles of impeachment are finally assembled is unknown, but it is possible to see the background construct as described above. Unlike historic examples of committee impeachment assembly, and in combination with the lack of an initiation vote, Pelosi’s earlier House Rule changes now appear intentionally designed to block republicans during the article assembly process. The minority will have no voice. This is quite a design.

      Now we need to stop for a moment and look at another crucial rules change, that of what kinds of information can legally be processed and reported as whistleblower reports. The original rules were quite clear: A report had to be based on first-hand knowledge and if it was not it could not even be processed, much less forwarded. This was to prevent abuse of the system. Suddenly that rule was surreptitiously changed, with vague implications that this happened in August (about the time it was sent to Schiff) but not formally recorded until the middle of September, a day or so before it was made public. Suddenly, without warning, it was possible to accept and process and forward a complaint based on rumor and gossip, one in which a “whistleblower” whose identity is protected by law could file a report based on those “unnamed sources” the Left finds so convenient.

      What we are seeing here is a rabid determination to get rid of Trump by any means, an effort stymied by the rules put in place to prevent this kind of lynch mob from being able to do this—so the rules are changed. Not changed outside the heat of an ongoing campaign, but as the campaign runs into them and finds them inconvenient.

      So, once Nan has manipulated the system (much as the IG IC manipulated the system) the Dems can do what they want, without oversight or participation by the minority party. That will allow them to revert to the mob tactic we saw in the Mueller “investigation”—–a net spread to entrap as many Trump supporters as possible by setting up tripwires and ambushes.

      We also need to pay attention to the circular pattern of Dem efforts. Back in the FISA fraud on the court days, lies were leaked to the complicit press, which dutifully published them, and then the publishing of the lies was used to support those lies in the FISA warrants. The rule change lets the Dems USE subpoenas to hunt for things to charge the president with, instead of using them properly to look into things they have already identified as high crimes or misdemeanors. And now that the rules are changed so the Dems can simply issue subpoenas at will, free from the restraints of the original rules, they can issue blatantly improper subpoenas and then use refusal to comply with them as the basis for more impeachments of more people.

      “The subpoenas are part of a two-pronged strategy by Democrats. Get the information to help tailor the articles of impeachment, or convert a refusal to comply into an impeachment article itself.”

      https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/09/28/pelosis-house-rule-changes-are-key-part-of-articles-of-impeachment-being-drafted-over-next-two-weeks/

      The entire process is a detailed description of corruption and abuse of power by the Dems, as they piously posture that they are doing it to root out corruption and end abuse of power.

      And, as rg and his ilk illustrate, it has its ardent supporters who find the stench of this corruption and abuse of power intoxicating and can’t get enough of it.

    • Amazona October 4, 2019 / 11:37 am

      Cluster, why do you INSIST on wasting time on these trolls?

      I have come to the conclusion that when it comes to people who post supporting the Left, there are only two basic classes. Oh, at the top are their masters, the hard-eyed cold-blooded True Believer ideologues who are committed to Leftism and its eventual dominance. But they just formulate the strategies and send out the narratives. I am talking about those who clutter the online sites with constantly, loudly, shrilly, repeated and regurgitated Leftist talking points. (Have you noticed the new meme of piously asking people if they are not DISTRESSED by what is allegedly happening? OUTRAGE has been replaced by CONCERN and DISMAY, and overt attacks by smarmy queries about how we FEEL about _______________ (insert lie here).

      Anyway, when it comes to the posters, I have come to the conclusion that they fall into two basic categories—the trolls, who may or may not be paid but who DO get marching orders and scripts from their masters, and a class I call Recreational Leftists. These are people devoid of any actual political philosophy or commitment, who just have a sick need to wallow in hate and project vitriol and find the Left a welcoming and encouraging place for them, To them, it is a game, a version of virtual warfare where they identify a target as an ENEMY and then go after it, no holds barred, using every possible weapon, with the goal of destroying it. They often pick up the scripts of the trolls because it is so much fun to regurgitate the lies, but they are not motivated by actual allegiance to a particular political system. They just get off on being as vile and vicious and nasty as they can.

      I also think that many of the trolls are also motivated by these same personality disorders and find the act of personal destruction to be entertaining. It doesn’t matter if rg is a troll or just a Recreational Leftist—the result, the dumping of mental excrement and the glee in trying to hurt people just because it’s fun to hurt people and the adoption of the narratives and scripts of the masters are all one and the same, no matter why they got here. It’s just an observation.

      • Retired Spook October 4, 2019 / 12:53 pm

        Anyway, when it comes to the posters, I have come to the conclusion that they fall into two basic categories—the trolls, who may or may not be paid but who DO get marching orders and scripts from their masters, and a class I call Recreational Leftists.

        Great segue into the quote of the day:

        After observing and conversing with a lot of supporters of Barack Obama for over 2 years, I’ve come to understand that the vast majority of them can be divided into four main groups: Those who suffer, rightly or wrongly, from an overwhelming sense of “white guilt”; those who think the country owes them (Entitlementarians); those who think they are smarter and better than everyone else and hold those who disagree with them in contempt; and those who wish to be admired by the latter group. MarketWatch article comment – 2010

      • Amazona October 4, 2019 / 6:10 pm

        I agree, there are other categories of people who support the Left in one way or another, to one degree or another, But when it comes to people who go to the trouble of posting online and then persist in hair-on-fire rants against Trump, I find only two basic categories—the paid or at least recruited troll and the Recreational Lefty who has no real political philosophy but just loves to attack people, snarl at them, call them names and ridicule them online, expressing their internal fury and impotence in a way that is safe. This attack mode feeds their egos and lets them pretend they are relevant and part of something bigger than they, and more important. It’s a delusion, but then so is what they post.

  5. Cluster October 4, 2019 / 9:06 am

    RG, do you not find it weird that the media and Democrats are no longer interested in finding out what exactly happened in 2016? The Volker texts which have now been revealed detail how Trump is trying to invoke the help of President Zelensky to find out what help he can be in uncovering what happened in his country.

    The reason why the media and Democrats are apoplectic is because there could be a lot of uncomfortable truths for them in the Ukraine … so now they have determined to frame this as Trump going rogue.

    • Amazona October 4, 2019 / 11:22 am

      The reason why the media and Democrats are apoplectic is because there could be a lot of uncomfortable truths for them in the Ukraine

      I’ve had a feeling all along that, as I have been saying, the reference to Crowdstrike was the spark that lit the fuse on the Panic Bomb.

      Dems don’t care about Joe Biden. He is an artifact, a has-been who is cluttering up the field of ardent new radical Socialists, and he is in the way. But right now, he is useful, because right now it is imperative to distract from the investigation into the Democrat use of the very tactic they are claiming Trump used—-approaching a foreign nation to ask for help in interfering in an American presidential election.

      They tried it with Mueller, and that fizzled out. Now they are trying it again, with even less to go on, with the claim that investigating Joe Biden equals foreign interference in an American election. But the real danger is uncovering, documenting, publishing and perhaps prosecuting the very real crimes committed by the DNC and the Clinton campaign when they DID solicit aid from a foreign nation to subvert an American election.

      This is why the Dems are freaking out. This is why they are jumping up and down, shrieking, waving their arms, engaging in street theater, publishing blatant lies even knowing they are easily seen as blatant lies, and basically squealing at the tops of their collective lungs “NOTHING TO SEE THERE, FOLKS! THE REAL STORY IS OVER HERE! LOOK OVER HERE! DON’T KEEP LOOKING OVER THERE!”

  6. Amazona October 4, 2019 / 11:11 am

    The talk of Russian collusion over the past two-plus years has caused us to take our eye off the real, internal threat, which is Russian imitation. This newest line of attack is one the old Soviet Politburo and the Tass News Agency would have greatly admired. It is the manufacturing of a bold-faced lie and then looking the public dead in the eye and insisting it is true; placing reliance upon apathy and ignorance to let the lie run its course toward its premeditated conclusion, which in this case is the removal of Donald Trump from office, by either constitutional blunt force or propaganda-driven voter suppression.

    https://www.newsweek.com/pelosis-no-evidence-impeachment-trump-may-succeedunless-republicans-fight-back-hard

    This is a great observation, and the term propaganda-driven voter suppression is accurate and important.

  7. Amazona October 4, 2019 / 11:47 am

    Hans von Spakovsky asks, about the “whistleblower” report: Was this a coordinated, biased, and partisan political complaint that was being filed for its value in the media and to help spur the impeachment process? It raises a lot of questions about the legitimacy of the actual whistleblower complaint.

    Well, DUH! What could be more obvious? They aren’t even trying to hide it any more.

    In the meantime, New York’s elites are no longer trying to hide their march toward total tyranny and their implantation of Wrongspeak punishment—it’s a relative of the beloved Thought Crimes they want to codify somehow, and according to Nancy Pelosi make retroactive so they can be used to get rid of Trump.

    https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/10/04/the-whistleblower-impeachment-and-new-yorks-orwellian-speech-policy

  8. rgrg2 October 4, 2019 / 12:21 pm

    Just one glance at the letter RG linked to written by Adam Schiff and I saw that it is full of lies.

    I said you might want to read the text messages released last night by the Congressional committees doing the impeachment investigation. They are attached to the letter. Although maybe you think those are lies, too.

    I’m sure you all would have welcomed President Obama explicitly asking China to investigate Mitt Romney and his children in 2012. And it goes without saying that you will fully expect and welcome an investigation by foreign countries in exchange for US support, at the behest of the next president into all of the business dealings of Donald Trump’s children. There is plenty of fodder for that.

    • Amazona October 4, 2019 / 12:49 pm

      First, let’s just dismiss the claim that the photo is in any way related to the attributed event.

      Second, I DID read the linked emails and found nothing in them that indicted or even implicated President Trump in any wrongdoing of any kind. As I said in my post, all I did see was Chargé d’Affaires of the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine Bill Taylor telegraphing anti-Trump bias, which was either ignored or corrected and in one case scolded by the other State Department officials.

      My quotation had to be copied from another source because I can’t copy from a PDF, but I did cross reference to make sure it was an accurate quotation from the PDF before including it.

      And you can stop with the smarmy Church Lady posturing. It is old, and tiresome, and stupid.

      I’m sure, you simper, you all would have welcomed President Obama explicitly asking China to investigate Mitt Romney and his children in 2012.

      Were any of them involved in obviously sketchy dealings with China? Even more to the point, did Mitt Romney himself have a position in government—say, Vice President of the United States—prior to 2012 that was apparently not only connected to but the origin of those sketchy dealings?

      If Mitt Romney HAD been Vice President of the United States prior to 2012, and HAD engaged in what appeared to be abuse of his power and position to encourage foreign nations to “invest” in newly formed companies formed by his inexperienced and unqualified children, and then those same foreign nations had later received preferential treatment from the United States, do you think that Mitt Romney’s status as a possible competitor for the presidency in the 2012 election should have insulated him from investigation, and justice?

      As for the Trump children after 2024, go for it. Investigate away. I understand Bob Mueller is looking for another gig, and might want to rehabilitate himself with the radical Left after letting you all down so badly.

      Give it up, rg. You are fighting a losing battle, armed only with lies, suppositions and hate. And your dogged insistence on coming back time after time, no matter how often or how thoroughly your stupid assertions are debunked and proved to be false shows you to be nothing but a troll, or a particularly rabid and stubborn Recreational Leftist just in it for the cheap thrills of attacking people.

      • rgrg2 October 4, 2019 / 12:53 pm

        So go ahead and hit the delete button. Everyone here knows that you are the one who is unable to deal with opposing points of view. Cheers.

      • Amazona October 4, 2019 / 2:02 pm

        “Everyone knows”, eh?

        I notice that you are unable to address anything I said, so just revert to your normal whining sniveling “you’re just going to pick on me” default position.

        I not only “dealt with” your silly offerings, I knocked them out of the park–which is why now all you can do is whimper about what a bad bully-girl I am.

      • Retired Spook October 4, 2019 / 1:03 pm

        Au Contraire, I think she handles opposing points of view with a great deal of skill, better than just about anyone I’ve ever known.

      • rgrg2 October 4, 2019 / 1:42 pm

        Deleting the posts of people with whom she disagrees is not what I would call “handling opposing points of view with a great deal of skill,” but that’s just me.

        Moderator note: I’m not sure why you think Amazona is deleting your posts. None of your posts have been deleted in this thread, and posts that have been deleted in previous threads have only been deleted when it became clear that they added nothing to the conversation.

      • rgrg2 October 4, 2019 / 3:39 pm

        No worries.

      • Ryan Murphy October 5, 2019 / 8:55 am

        RG2, you are somewhat a coward when you make up persecution to prevent yourself from having to actually defend your position.

      • Amazona October 5, 2019 / 12:48 pm

        Ryan, the tactics of the Left always include that of Distract, Divert and Deflect when faced with questions that they can’t answer without admitting the inherent defects in what they are saying—defects which often include out-and-out lying.

        Rush uses the term “Drive-by” but I was using it long before he was, to describe the tactic of just hurling out buckets of slime and then scurrying off to find other targets to attack. He uses it about the media but I have been using it to describe what passes for political discourse on the Left, either from the obedient trolls or the Recreational Leftists who just get off on showing us how nasty they can be.

        rg is probably one of the former, as he avoids the nastier name-calling but is steadfast in parroting one prepared narrative after another, so much so that it appears that he has a script he flips through to find something he can post in an unending screed against the political and philosophical antithesis of Leftism in this country.

        Those of us defending the Right don’t work from scripts or prepared narratives, but just respond to the lies hurled by the trolls or the RL, do our research and then use that to come back and rebut the lies with facts and reason. Which then, of course, bounces the troll off onto another page of the script or the RL into name calling and insults.

        It’s the same old same old. And every time a Lefty is given space on this blog due to his pretense of just wanting to engage in rational discourse about a current topic he quickly descends into his default mode of trying to use this as a litterbox where he can deposit his mental excrement. And then there is whining and pouting when this is halted. It happens every time.

  9. rgrg2 October 4, 2019 / 12:59 pm

    Speaking of Mitt, via Twitter this morning:

    “When the only American citizen President Trump singles out for China’s investigation is his political opponent in the midst of the Democratic nomination process, it strains credulity to suggest that it is anything other than politically motivated. By all appearances, the President’s brazen and unprecedented appeal to China and to Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden is wrong and appalling.”

    • Amazona October 4, 2019 / 2:12 pm

      Yeah. Twitter. Mitt. Digging deep, aren’t you? That’s what happens when you don’t have any credible sources.

      How about this: “When the only American citizens President Trump singles out for China’s investigation are the inexperienced, incompetent sons of an American Vice President and the Secretary of State who have the power to influence all relationships between China and the United States including financial relationships, after China “invests” billions of dollars in a new company owned by those sons, it strains credulity to suggest that it is anything other than a straightforward investigation into possible corruption, Pay to Play and abuse of power by those two powerful American officeholders. By any standard, the President’s approval of investigations by China and Ukraine into what is without question at the very least the appearance of wrongdoing and may very well prove corruption at the highest levels of the American government is his duty as the chief executive officer of that government.”

      There: Fixed.

  10. Retired Spook October 4, 2019 / 1:07 pm

    Meanwhilte, U.S. unemployment hits another 50 year low at 3.5%

  11. Retired Spook October 4, 2019 / 1:24 pm

    I just finished watching the Glenn Beck chalkboard presentation on all things Ukraine. He covers it extremely well, and illustrates how the corruption involving the Bidens and the Trump phone call to the new Ukranian president are minor blips in the sea of Democrat/Ukraine corruption.

      • Cluster October 4, 2019 / 5:09 pm

        You two and your ilk have been crying wolf for over three years, so forgive us if we think you’re idiots … because we do. You know if you have been looking for something for over 3 years under every rock it just may not be there … have you ever considered that? And a lot of things “seem bad” to you Fielding … toxic masculinity, traditional genders, etc. You’re not exactly the most grounded person I have been acquainted with.

        So I read through the thread and am noticing that neither of you can rebut any of Amazona’s points, preferring instead to simply say “oh yea well what about this?” What in the hell do the Romney’s have to do with anything? I can tell you straight up that if Romney were in a position of power and we discovered that his kid was on a foreign corporate board offering no expertise and raking in millions, hell yes I would want that investigated.

        The question is, why do you two not want to know about the Biden’s multi million dollar windfall from Ukraine and China? Isn’t that what you two call “white privilege”?

      • Amazona October 4, 2019 / 5:15 pm

        I refuse to subscribe so I could only get part of the story, but here is part of the first graph: President Trump denied that he had linked military aid to Ukraine with a commitment by Kyiv to investigate the 2016 presidential election when pressed on the matter by a Republican senator in August, according to the lawmaker.

        THIS “looks bad”? OF COURSE he denied it. Because it never happened, he never said anything to indicate that it had, and he has denied this ugly lie every time it has raised its ugly head.

        Then the story goes on, to where I can’t read it all, to claim U.S. Ambassador to the EU Gordon Sondland said something that is in direct contradiction to his written opinion, as we saw in the text of his email when he corrected Chargé d’Affaires of the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine Bill Taylor when Taylor wrote “As I said on the phone, I think it’s crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign…”

        If there is something really there that really “looks bad” without peering through Hate Goggles after chugging down a pint of toxic Hate Punch, quote it and stop being so coy and smirky with your links and abbreviated non-comments. Make a declarative statement, back it up, or shut up and go away.

    • Amazona October 4, 2019 / 5:03 pm

      Yes, let’s keep going back to the people Trump beat soundly in 2018 and ask them to give THEIR opinions. What a good way to get objective, inner-circle, commentary!

      Mitt is already circling like a vulture, hoping Trump is dead so he can feast on his bones and run for the nomination, so of course anything he says has to be viewed through the double filter of him being a snake AND someone who thinks he might benefit from taking Trump out. As for Rubio, you misstated what he said. Gee, there’s a surprise!

      What he said: “I don’t know if that’s a real request or him just needling the press knowing that you guys were gonna get outraged by it,” Rubio responded. “He’s pretty good at getting everybody fired up, and he’s been doing it for a while now, and the media responded right on task.” As the casual offhand comment was made to the drooling pack of rabid press hounds and was not a formal request to any official in China, I don’t see how any sane person could manage to stir up any fury or outrage about it.

      But you guys, well, you don’t need facts or reality to go off on wild-eyed attacks. It’s just what you do.

    • Cluster October 4, 2019 / 5:22 pm

      We shouldn’t take them seriously. President Trump is just joking when he calls for Ukraine and China to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden.

      We should take them very seriously, always. And Trump is not joking and that fact has you, Fielding, and all progressives scared to death. This is no political game … there is a reason why the Clinton Global Initiative shuttered it’s doors when Hillary lost, there is a reason why Harry Reid abruptly retired from the Senate, there is a reason why Elijah Cummings is no longer in debt as he was for years, there is a reason why Chelsea Clinton made a high six figure salary with NBC right out of college, there is a reason why Hunter Biden and Chris Heinz raked in millions for the equity firm, and there is a reason why the three richest counties in the US surround Washington DC

      Wake up and grow up

      • Amazona October 4, 2019 / 5:53 pm

        OK, they shouldn’t take him seriously because he didn’t file or make a formal request of China to do anything. They should take him seriously because China is on the list of nations with connections to the Bidens that appear to be unscrupulous if not downright illegal. They should take him seriously because if such an investigation were to uncover illegalities the criminal activity would include Joe and John, the former vice president and the former secretary of state.

        Lotsa scary stuff out there for Dems, who have been counting on having other, complicit, Dems in power to hide their actions. No wonder they are freaking out about what is, at this moment in time, nothing more than a reminder that “I’m watching you” and another reminder that pushing him too hard is likely to result in an acceleration of that watching as a natural defense.

  12. Cluster October 4, 2019 / 6:38 pm

    Come to think of it the only people we actually have on tape colluding with a foreign government, and bragging about a quid pro quo arrangement are Democrats Adam Schiff and Joe Biden. That fact is irrefutable yet everyone else still seems to keep looking for Trump’s infractions. Weird.

  13. Cluster October 4, 2019 / 6:50 pm

    And another thing …. isn’t it odd that suddenly Democrats are no longer interested in “getting to the bottom” of the 2016 election? I just heard one Democrat “strategist” say we have “moved on” from 2016 interference and are now focusing on what Trump is doing in the 2020 elections. Of course they are.

  14. rgrg2 October 4, 2019 / 10:10 pm

    We are seeing a coordinated effort to mislead the American public, and a callous disregard for the damage this is doing to the nation.

    I certainly agree with that statement. Sadly, it’s coming from the White House. So you guys actually think Donald Trump is rooting out corruption? His former campaign manager is a felon. His deputy campaign manager is a felon. His first National Security Advisor is a felon. His former foreign policy advisor is a felon. His longtime personal lawyer is also a felon. He won’t release his tax returns like all presidents since Gerald Ford have.

    Since taking office, Trump’s daughter’s company has been awarded dozens of potentially valuable trademarks by the Chinese government. Jared Kushner’s real estate firm tried to sell its troubled investment in a Manhattan skyscraper to a prominent Chinese firm. And Nicole Meyer, Kushner’s sister and an executive in the family firm, invoked her connections to the president when she pitched Chinese investors in Beijing to buy into a development in New Jersey.

    If Donald Trump is intent on rooting out corruption, funny how they’re all in on it.

    I just marvel at how completely Donald Trump has turned you guys inside out. You no longer believe in anything other than protecting your leader.

    • Amazona October 4, 2019 / 10:50 pm

      Wahhhh wahhhhh wahhhhh. rg is whining his Identity Politics whine again. So vote someone else in, but don’t use your laundry list of complaints as justification for turning a legitimate process into a bludgeon to take down someone you don’t like.

      You know what is NOT in your whine? Anything Donald Trump has done as president that even comes close to a high crime or a misdemeanor. What we are seeing is a sudden veering away from the alleged misdeeds he has allegedly done as president to this kind of wheezing, whimpering carrying-on about imagined past misdeeds, the imagined character defects of people who are NOT Trump, blah blah blah blah blah

      Why are you here? Aren’t there enough Hate Sites to keep you and your kind happy? You know we know you are a liar. You know we know you are a partisan hack totally indifferent to fact or truth. You know we know you are full of s**t and your pious posturing as decent, caring or concerned about this country is totally fake.

      So go away already.

  15. rgrg2 October 4, 2019 / 10:16 pm

    More deep thoughts from Marco Rubio today:

    “Before we nullify the results of an election or dismiss some very serious accusations as an attempted coup, maybe it would be a good idea to try and gather all of the facts & then give some thought to what would be in the best interest of our country

    I don’t know, just a thought.”

    Uh, Marco, that’s what an impeachment inquiry is. See, if the inquiry produces enough evidence to impeach the president, then the House will vote on it. If they vote to impeach, then you the Senators hold a trial and decide whether to convict.

    Try reading the Constitution, Marco. Just a thought.

    • Amazona October 4, 2019 / 10:56 pm

      A serious legitimate impeachment inquiry is a legitimate part of the impeachment process. What we are seeing now is farce and a sad and pathetic example of what happens when people are so blinded by hate they subject themselves to the emotional manipulations of the leaders of a political system so brutal, so oppressive, that it destroys the human spirit as it drags nations into the pits of economic misery and loss of personal liberty.

      They find a bunch of hate-driven loons like you and a bunch of egomaniac power-hungry corrupt politicians and dangle bait in front of you knowing that you lack the intelligence to see through it and the character to want to see through it.

      Just as we saw other agencies weaponized to destroy Trump we are seeing a process weaponized for the same purpose. And the pious unctuous pontificating of people like you about the Constitution, as you strive to undermine it and eventually destroy it, is beyond disgusting.

  16. rgrg2 October 4, 2019 / 11:13 pm

    So earlier, Fielding posted an article describing how US Senator Ron Johnson told the Wall Street Journal that the U.S. ambassador to the EU told him in August that the status of aid to Ukraine was tied to Trump’s interest in having Kiev investigate certain matters. Johnson confronted Trump, who denied it. Another lie.

    It should also be pointed out that this is the same Senator Johnson who co-signed a letter dated February 12, 2016, in which he urged reforms in the office of the Ukrainian prosecutor–the same reforms that Vice President Biden, the US government, the European Union, the International Monetary Fund, and the reformers within Ukraine were all supporting; namely, the removal from office of Viktor Shokin, who was part of the corruption.

    Now, in another profile in Republican courage, Senator Johnson claims to have forgotten because he “sends out all kinds of oversight letters.”

    • Amazona October 4, 2019 / 11:40 pm

      Pick a lane, guys, and stay in it.

      Is this about a sincere conviction that in a conversation with the Ukrainian president Donald Trump committed some crime deserving of impeachment? Because that is supposedly what this is all about . But when he released the transcript of the conversation, after the leaker had submitted his report, the report made allegations not supported by the transcript.

      Then it was “well, that isn’t what he SAID but this is what he MEANT…” but then the Ukrainian president said no, that is not how he took anything that was said. And the absurdity of acting as if the attribution of an unstated message and intent, by someone who hates Trump and wants to destroy him could be taken seriously was evident. You people even said he had been speaking “in code”.

      But the whole tempest in a very tiny teapot was the claim that Trump directed the Ukrainian president to “dig up dirt” on Joe Biden. To influence the election. There has been screeching, there has been squealing, there has been tearing of hair and ear-splitting howls of outrage.

      The thing is, it just didn’t hold up. Anyone reading the actual words could see the frantic scrambling, dissembling, manipulating of fact and most of all complete dependence on assignment of intent and motive simply not borne out by the facts.

      So the lying had to escalate. We had Bugsy Schiffhole reading a completely fabricated script that he presented as the words of the president. We had trolls howling the lies at top volume across the internet. We had total chaos and hysteria, but none of it was supported by the actual words.

      Then what started to come out was the changing of rules necessary to get the complaint as far as it got. The rules for submitting a legitimate whistleblower report were changed, in midstream, after the report was taken to the staff of Schiff and written there, to lay out a step by step indictment that was clearly intended to lead to impeachment. So then the rules had to be changed to let this be filed, processed and sent to Congress. That resulted in a report based on hearsay and rumor, filed by a whistleblower whose identity is supposed to be kept secret to protect him but based on anonymous unnamed “sources”. This is a violation of the original rules and the intent and purpose of the whistleblower laws in the first place.

      Then the Left started to look for other excuses and “crimes” as the original narrative started to run out of gas, and the threat of closer examination of the report itself and the parties that enabled it was growing. The Left tried on “obstruction of justice” for a while, then “campaign finance laws”. It’s been a constant shell game of shifting from one “crime” to another, as the foundations for the claims were so easily rebutted. So Pelosi changed the rules about how the House handles impeachment, to hamper the ability of Republicans to actually play a role in the process.

      Then people started to comment on the obvious, such as “why, if there is really something wrong, does the Left have to lie about it”? And “why, if there is really something wrong, do the rules have to be changed to allow the Left to go after the president”?

      Every objective witness has said the president did nothing wrong. The Left lies some more, claiming Volker and Sondland said things they very clearly did not say. The more holes that started to appear in the Left’s efforts, the more the script started to shift.

      And now, right on cue, we have trolls howling about everything BUT the alleged basis of the accusations—-what a list of other people supposedly did, none of whom is Trump. More and more the agenda of the Slime Machine is being laid bare, and its agenda of any excuse to hurl any insult or accusation is obvious. And its enablers and participants are once again shown to be the vile, disgusting, lying pieces of excrement you/they are. The majority of those polled agree that this is just an effort to harm the president.

  17. rgrg2 October 4, 2019 / 11:28 pm

    And in another bit of Trump administration hypocrisy, those texts between Trump diplomats seeking dirt from Ukraine were sent not on State Department email but on WhatsApp. You know, the service owned by Facebook, whom we all know respects their users’ data and keeps it safe. Gee, I seem to remember Donald Trump and Republicans up in arms because the former Secretary of State was not using office State email for all of her communications. But that was then, this is now.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/holding-ukraine-hostage-how-the-president-and-his-allies-chasing-2020-ammunition-fanned-a-political-storm/2019/10/04/100e9868-e6a5-11e9-a331-2df12d56a80b_story.html

    • Amazona October 4, 2019 / 11:51 pm

      Were the communications confidential, classified or secret? When they started to get into more sensitive territory, didn’t U.S. Ambassador to the EU Gordon Sondland suggest changing to a different mode of communication?

      Can’t any investigation into any corruption be referred to as an effort to “seek dirt” if it is there to be found? Well, that doesn’t apply to the Mueller “investigation:, which was to invent dirt, but that’s another story. So why do you people insist on using the more derogatory term? Because it implies something illicit? After all, there is nothing wrong with “seeking dirt” if there IS dirt, unlike INVENTING dirt, which is what your side did. And does.

      But…what’s your point? Aside from the fact that you can’t argue the Trump Is Guilty BS any more and are just in your default mode of hating and attacking anyone wearing the wrong jersey. Should Trump be impeached because some conversations among people in the diplomatic corps took place on WhatsApp?

      it’s this obsession with your hate and vitriol that has made you persona non grata here so many times. You kind of try to pretend to discuss something going on but quickly revert to your default mode, which is just plain general A-hole spewing hate and spite and malice. You are seriously toxic and disturbed, and for the life of me I cannot understand why Cluster argues that you should be addressed and answered.

      • Cluster October 5, 2019 / 9:02 am

        Not every one of RG’s posts needs addressed .. only the more delusional ones but those are the majority. You know funny enough RG was all for foreign investigations into POTUS candidates when the Steel Dossier was released. Steele was a former British spy who was hired by Clinton to dig up dirt on Trump and he turned to Ukraine operatives with Russian sources to complete that dossier which was used against Trump. The democrats and people like RG applauded that effort but now, seeking foreign assistance in rooting out the origins of that effort, or looking into corruption is now, according the democrats and RG, is a matter of “national security”

        They are a complete joke. RG is wanna be fascist and hypocrite …. nothing more. Because I watch a lot of MSNBC I got easily predict his next post.

  18. Cluster October 5, 2019 / 8:55 am

    RG’s posts read exactly like a segment on MSNBC and it’s nothing more than an exercise in brain damage. Hate driven morons like RG have wanted to impeach Trump since the day he took office over the Comey firing, over Stormy, over Russia, and now over Ukraine and they have NOTHING despite assurances and guarantees from even bigger morons than RG who proclaimed in front of every microphone they could find that the evidence was “just about to come out” … “any day now”

    The media and Dems have lied to people like RG for three years and yet he is still like pavlov’s dog at the lever waiting for another sound bite that will convince him it’s impeachment time. The ironic thing is is that Trump may be the most transparent President we have in a long time so he foils there efforts by usually releasing everything when asked. Think about this … Trump may be the most investigated President in the history of the country and yet they have nothing … does that give you reason to pause and think RG? Or are you one to believe in endless investigations as they do in fascist countries? There’s no shame in admitting it RG … you just be honest with yourself in who you really are.

  19. Cluster October 5, 2019 / 9:10 am

    I love it how Trump has challenged Pelosi to open impeachment proceedings, but she won’t. That’s how strong their case is. And that’s really all you need to know. All the talking hair hats on MSNBC and CNN are doing nothing nothing more than making noise designed to enrage people like RG.

    And it works but nothing is cuter than an enraged, gender fluid, woke progressive. I am surprised we don’t hear more from that rocket scientist Maxine Waters leading the charge … “impeach 45”.

    I can see voters across the country rushing to the polls to elect that intellectual heavyweight to run the country. The democrats are the party of misfit toys and it’s impossible not to mock them at laugh at them. Pelosi can’t even smile properly because of all the botox and she’s their shining star hahahahahaha

  20. Cluster October 5, 2019 / 9:41 am

    You know what has to be extremely frustrating for all the talking hair hats and people like RG is that they just can’t find a crime despite three years of investigations and people like us refuse to cower to their demands and accusations. This tactic use to work in the past when we had milquetoast candidates like Bush, McCain and Romney but it’s not working now …. what’s a gender fluid boy to do ???

    • rgrg2 October 5, 2019 / 10:02 am

      Your posts are being deleted because you aren’t discussing the impeachment but using the blog to air your grievances about anything to do with Republicans. You refuse to answer questions. You just ignore them and go on to some other complaint. We have gone through this before with you. // Moderator

      • Cluster October 5, 2019 / 10:07 am

        Why do you suppose people like Sondland and Voker are suddenly interested in testifying without a government lawyer, without delay, and without even negotiating terms that might limit their personal exposure?

        Because they have nothing to worry about. That’s a pretty easy question. And President’s ALWAYS use “foreign policy of the United States to further their personal political aims” That’s what they campaigned on and that’s why voters voted for them. Are you kidding me? This is your argument?

        Do you wanna take another swing at it or is this the best you have?

      • Cluster October 5, 2019 / 10:09 am

        And the moderator has not deleted your posts RG, they are all still there. But if I were you I would want them deleted too hahahaha

      • Cluster October 5, 2019 / 10:34 am

        Wow you are a little boy immersed in the talking points. Do you think Obama giving Iran a billion dollars in cash advanced the interest of the United States or his personal political agenda? Do you think Clinton was advancing the interests of the United States or his personal political agenda when he helped North Korea with their nuclear program?

        Trump has openly said for years that he will look into the origins of the Mueller/Russia collusion and corruption wherever it may lead him and now that he is people like you are crying and whining. Didn’t you believe him when he said it? I did and that’s why I voted for him. Trump is doing everything that we hoped he would do when we voted for him so we really don’t give a f**k about your concerns. People like you just don’t matter anymore.

      • Cluster October 5, 2019 / 10:42 am

        And President’s ALWAYS use “foreign policy of the United States to further their personal political aims”

        And how about when Biden withheld $1.5 billion in cash from Ukraine unless they fired their prosecutor. Was that for the security of the United States, or advancing personal political goals?? Just curious. Wanna take another swing at it?

      • Cluster October 5, 2019 / 11:01 am

        1. Obama didn’t give a billion dollars to Iran. You know that but pretend that you don’t.

        Reporting from Washington — The Obama administration is acknowledging its transfer of $1.7 billion to Iran earlier this year was made entirely in cash, using non-U.S. currency, as Republican critics of the transaction continued to denounce the payments.

        Wanna try again? Or how about Obama’s DACA policy? Was that in the interests of US security, or his personal political agenda?

        https://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-iran-payment-cash-20160907-snap-story.html

      • Cluster October 5, 2019 / 11:14 am

        So now you’re not believing the Obama administration and the LA Times? Was that fake news? Why would the LAT smear Obama like that? hahahahaha RG how are we to take you seriously? You’re convinced of things that aren’t real, and dismiss factual evidence of things that are. You’re a complete woke joke.

  21. Cluster October 5, 2019 / 10:15 am

    And good morning to you RG, where are my manners? You might want to turn on MSNBC right now because Joy Reid is convinced that Trump should hang in the public square because of “all of his crimes” that she just can’t find but is convinced that there are some. She might make you feel better.

  22. Cluster October 5, 2019 / 10:37 am

    You’re a misfit toy RG but you’re in good company … intellectual heavyweights like Maxine Waters, Rashida Tlaib, and Ilhan Omar must really excite you. You’re on a good track RG … hang with it.

  23. Cluster October 5, 2019 / 11:17 am

    Yea the last post of RG pretty much sealed his fate. He explicitly said that Obama did not give a billion dollars to Iran and when confronted with the admission from the Obama administration to that fact in a LAT article, he still wouldn’t acknowledge it.

    They create their own reality and expect everyone else to live in it … sorry sport. Enjoy your baseball.

    • Cluster October 5, 2019 / 11:33 am

      But RG you said this just an hour ago:

      1. Obama didn’t give a billion dollars to Iran. You know that but pretend that you don’t.

      Now you want admit that it was transferred? Can you at least be consistent?

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