Open Thread

The Democrats/MSM/Never Trump are running a con: and the con is the assertion that a 77 year old, addle-brained career politician will solve the problems. It is a stupid assertion. Only an idiot would believe it. But it is the assertion they are making…and with all their powers of opinion-generation, they’re going to see if they can get an electoral majority to be stupid enough to believe it.

Personally, I don’t think they can – and I also happen to think that they also know they can’t do it. So, in reality, what they’re doing right now is battle space prep for 2021. With Trump re-elected (perhaps quite resoundingly) and maybe back in full control of Congress (and this time with far more pro-Trump people in the mix), Democrats know they will be in for a rough time. So, if Trump does win – as I think they expect – they need to make certain that their side remains both white hot against Trump and certain that Trump is illegitimate. So, put out that D+10 poll showing Biden up 12. When the event comes out, the only way Trump could have won is by cheating, right?

It is also good to remember that there is an army of consultants, pollsters and talking heads who will simply be out of work if polling started to consistently show Trump heading for victory. Who the heck is doing to donate to your Democrat Pac and buy your polling data if there’s no point to it? So, there are a lot of vested interests in keeping up the appearance that Trump is doomed…and while Trump will Tweet out from time about fake news and fake polls, I don’t think he actually minds this stuff. The less the Democrats see reality, the better for Trump.

Meanwhile, the National Association of Police Organizations which endorsed Obama/Biden in 2008 and 2012 and didn’t endorse at all in 2016…has endorsed Trump. Just how many cops or family members of cops do you think are going to vote Democrat this year? One percent? Maybe two percent if Biden gets lucky? If they thought it sure that Biden would win – that if real data showed Biden up 10 or 12 points – they wouldn’t endorse Trump. They might not endorse Biden, but they wouldn’t endorse Trump. At worst, they’d keep their powder dry and hope for the best. Someone at NAPO is sure Trump will win.

The vandals of Antifa are showing themselves to be overtly anti-Christian. Plenty of statues of the Blessed Virgin have been defaced. This tells me of the essentially evil nature of Antifa even if nothing else did: everyone who hates Our Lady is heading down a pretty dark path.

On a more plus side of that, you might recall that there was an Antifa/BLM push against Saint Louis IX…threats to destroy the statue of the Saint-King in St Louis. I’ve been following for many days now the Catholics who have been holding daily prayer vigils around the statue. They get abuse hurled at them (and sometimes physical violence, as well) but they are standing firm. They pray the Rosary and other prayers and even did a Eucharistic procession around the statue. I’m mighty impressed with the courage of these Christians.

The National Museum of African American History & Culture says that things like being married and working hard and respecting authority are “White” things. Which is curious because the racists of the KKK used to say exactly the same thing. When I first saw the thing, I thought it was a joke – someone trolling. But it turns out it is real…and I bet the authors of it simply do not know what actual racism against blacks was like. It does not surprise me that they work at a museum: I figure that anyone allowed to be in charge of anything designed to propagate facts has long been taken over by ignoramouses who hate facts.

137 thoughts on “Open Thread

  1. Retired Spook July 16, 2020 / 9:43 am

    Has anyone here studied the Black Lives Matter website? I spent some time looking it over this molrning, and I’ve got to say, by the time I finished the WHAT WE BELIEVE part, I was laughing out loud, and not in a good, ha ha funny way. Read it and then compare it with their public actions and rhetoric and see if you don’t have the same reaction. Talk about a “con.”

    • Amazona July 16, 2020 / 2:03 pm

      I could barely make it through. One of the things that struck me is that it so blatantly contradicts what the founders have said about the foundation of the movement. From one utterly false statement to another, at such velocity it was hard to keep up, my reaction was surprise that the page didn’t just burst into flame from the sheer weight and volume of its lies.

      I see what you mean about laughing. The thing is, there are the gullible and willfully ignorant who will read these words and point to them and say “See? THIS is what we stand for!” (Even while rioting, killing and wallowing in outrageously toxic racism and discrimination) because that is, after all, what the words say. These are the same fools who believe that Antifa is actually Against Facism—because that is what the words say. Who think Progressives are all about freedom and diversity and inclusiveness—-because that is what the words say. Who think Joe Biden is a moderate—because that is what the words say.

  2. Cluster July 16, 2020 / 12:27 pm

    The entire Democrat Party is a con job at this point.

    Home of the Free, Land of the Brave?? America is neither at this point.

    • fieldingclaymore July 16, 2020 / 1:22 pm

      Do you think 45 may have conned you guys a bit?

      • Amazona July 16, 2020 / 2:08 pm

        You people don’t make any sense

      • fieldingclaymore July 16, 2020 / 2:15 pm

        Also,we would be respected again on the world stage. We are and embarrassment right now with how we have handled COVID-19. US passports are practically useless right now.

      • Amazona July 16, 2020 / 2:35 pm

        If you were capable of being embarrassed you wouldn’t keep slithering back here to be savaged for your inanity and stupidity. I finally saw where some of this theme of international embarrassment over Covid, blah blah blah, is coming from—though I could guess. Flipping through channels I saw some show running a clip of some dingbat from MSDNC sniveling about “lack of leadership” and the US being “the epicenter of COVID-19”. Word for word what you and your alter ego, the binkie boy, have been whimpering about.

        But you just keep fretting about what you think other people in other countries think of us. If you were to ever actually GO anywhere, and talk to people, you would realize that YOU are the ones being conned, by Agenda Media trying to make you ashamed of your country.

        And the funny thing is, it’s really the other way around.

      • Amazona July 16, 2020 / 2:37 pm

        Wow! What a burn! Such a brilliant comeback! You’re really on your game today, claymore. I see you’ve finally moved half a step above “I know what you are but what am I?”

      • Pke42 July 16, 2020 / 8:37 pm

        Are you even going to try, or are you just going to make insipid little comments with no substance?

      • Amazona July 16, 2020 / 11:35 pm

        No, the job of a troll is not to post anything of value. It is to dump as much hateful rhetoric as possible on a blog and get as many responses as possible to the bait of outrageous comments.

  3. Cluster July 16, 2020 / 1:37 pm

    So Trump fulfills EVERY campaign promise – America FIRST, lower taxes, new trade deals, lower unemployment, lower regulations, more secured border, booming economy, no foreign wars, etc., etc.

    TRUMP FULFILLED EVERY SINGLE CAMPAIGN PROMISE. And yet some progressive little Democrat twerp wants to know if we fill conned by Trump???

    This is a piece of shit who voted for a half white guy in 2009 based on “hope and change” and then wants to know if we have been conned? Eliminate these people

    • bunkerboy15 July 16, 2020 / 1:50 pm

      Ari Fliescher, first press secretary for President Bush:

      “Trump should view the coronavirus as no different than other enemies, domestic and foreign, that he pledged to defend the people of the United States from. He’s got to talk about it. He’s got to lead the country on it and show that he cares.”

      “He’s got to lead”… a notion that you all seem to mock as meaningless when I have brought it up before.

      • Cluster July 16, 2020 / 1:56 pm

        Just curious binary boy, do you consult the government before you wipe your ass?

      • bunkerboy15 July 16, 2020 / 1:58 pm

        Just curious Cluster, do you think the president has any role in leading the federal government? Or is he just a figurehead put there to sell beans from the resolute desk?

      • Amazona July 16, 2020 / 2:39 pm

        What is this—a race to the bottom between you and claymore?

        I’d call it a tie right now

      • Amazona July 16, 2020 / 3:39 pm

        Just curious, BB—how do you define “leadership”? And what do you think “leading the federal government” should be? That is such a vague thing—“the federal government”. Congress? Agencies? The military? Here’s an idea—go to the Constitution and see how the duties of the President are described.

        Then go to his oath of office, to see what he promised to do as president.

        What it all comes down to is that your focus groups told you to hammer the word “leadership”, to harp on it and bleat about it and try to make it sound like you are making a valid point.

        And you aren’t.

      • Cluster July 16, 2020 / 2:02 pm

        Well agin you stupid little fuck, Trump fulfilled every campaign promise and had this country in the best shape it’s ever been in, domestically and foreignly, up until people like you in massive fit of childish ignorant rage started to tear this country apart because your precious feelings were hurt, so the only thing we care to lead now is people like you to your own demise

      • Amazona July 16, 2020 / 3:35 pm

        It’s just that you have no idea what “leading” IS. All you do is parrot what your minders say.

        There is “leading from behind”—Obama’s specialty—-and I wonder if you approved of that. There is the “leadership” that sends Americans into harm’s way to try to pull a politician’s fat our of the fire and then sitting there watching in real time as they are murdered, afraid to intervene because of potential political fallout. There is the leadership of blaming, and then prosecuting, and then imprisoning an innocent man to create a scapegoat for the massacre. There is the leadership of using federal agencies to spy on citizens to look for anything that might be twisted into a weapon to be used as a political tool.

        There is the blunt “don’t baby them” leadership of Churchill, but that was in a situation where it would have been foolish to sugar coat anything. In the case of this virus, Trump was faced with the delicate balancing act of letting us know this is a serious problem without being all Doom and Gloom—because leadership also means trying to keep spirits up, being optimistic and not letting the public think there is no hope.

        Lacking Churchill’s oratorical skills, Trump was not as articulate as we might have liked, but he did try to navigate the shoals of conflicting information from abroad and his own “experts” and his desire to send hopeful messages and, of course, the howling jackals of the Left trying to tear him down and savaging every word, every syllable, every inflection of everything he said.

        No one has scorned the concept of leadership. We have just had contempt for your childish, cartoonish and hate-driven pronouncements of how Trump did or did not “lead”. And your observations have been downright stupid.

        “He waited too long to act”. So does this mean if he had shut down our borders and cut off travel from China in December you all would have supported that, and never made a peep about it being “racist” or”xenophobic”? I think we know the answer to that. Should he have imposed martial law? (Or, as so many on the Left call it, “marshal” or “marshall” law.) I’m sure a presidential edict imposing Draconian measures of controlling the population, enforced by the military, would have been applauded by the Left. Should interaction among people have been controlled within state lines? Counties? City boundaries? Neighborhoods? How rigidly controlled? With what penalties for violation? What would have been the “right” or acceptable kind and level of control, or “leadership” that would have shut you people up? Should all of this been based exclusively on presidential edicts? How would a unilateral presidential suspension of liberty and civil rights have gone over with you people?

        It is more and more obvious, even to people who are not necessarily Trump fans, that you simply hate him and will bitch and moan about every single thing he does. So in spite of your Lefty focus groups touting the word “leadership” as scoring high on what people want, without a definition of leadership that fits into the real world it is all just noise.

      • bunkerboy15 July 16, 2020 / 6:03 pm

        Just curious, BB—how do you define “leadership”?

        It is true that leadership is somewhat difficult to define—hence all the books about leadership and the people who make a lot of money lecturing about it. But I would say that a leader has a vision for an organization’s goals and outcomes, and he or she inspires, guides and directs the rest of the organization to follow though on that vision to produce the desired outcomes. A leader also takes responsibility for the actions and outcomes of his or her organization.

        In the case of the federal response to a pandemic, the president obviously has the role of leader, whether he chooses to act on it or not. The goal should be to minimize the impact of the virus and to get get it under control so that it doesn’t threaten the general population, not to mention the economy, any longer. Obviously, we are a long, long way from that. Worse, the president doesn’t seem to care or even consider that he has a role to play. We all remember his infamous words in May: “I don’t take responsibility at all.” That is the antithesis of leadership.

        You ask, “what do you think ‘leading the federal government’ should be? That is such a vague thing—’the federal government’. Congress? Agencies? The military? Here’s an idea—go to the Constitution and see how the duties of the President are described.” And here you’re just asking gotcha questions, implying that I don’t know the difference between the executive and legislative branches, for example. In a previous thread, you did the same thing, and promised that there would be a quiz at the end. You wound up deleting my response. I’m still waiting for the quiz. In any event, since you posit yourself as the blog’s resident intellectual, I think you would be better served by engaging in good faith rather than tossing around insults and engaging in name-calling.

        Also in another thread, you took issue with my word “eradicate” with respect to the virus. Fine. But other countries have very nearly eradicated it, if not entirely so. New Zealand is an example. Of course, the virus will continue to exist, but if the rate of person-to-person infection falls below R0=1, then it will essentially die out. There is no way that the economy will get back to normal so long as the virus is spreading out of control. It is actually kind of amazing to me that President Trump doesn’t seem to realize this fact. He seems to think they he can just order school back in session, and tell people to live their normal lives, even though people are going to look at the facts and make those determinations based on their assessment of risks to their safety. I guess that’s his idea of leadership. But the best thing for the president’s political aspirations would be to recognize this and undertake the pain of getting the virus under control now.

        With respect to leadership, today the Republican governor of Maryland, Larry Hogan, wrote a piece for the Washington Post, in which he describes how he had to take matters into his own hands when it came to securing tests for his own state because President Trump refused to engage the federal government to do the job, even when he claimed, “Anybody that wants a test can get a test.” At that time, only 2,252 Americans had been tested, and across the country, governors were desperately pleading for help on testing. But in early April, Trump said it was the states’ job. That’s not leadership by any definition. It’s abdication.

      • Amazona July 16, 2020 / 7:09 pm

        As you clutter your screed with snarling editorial commentary obviously based on your crystal ball, simply attributing thoughts and characteristics to the president, all you do is undermine any chance you might ever be taken seriously. You’ve got some woo-woo in there, about “inspiration” and “vision” but when we cut through the BS all we find is that you don’t agree with anything the president did.

        You preach: The goal should be to minimize the impact of the virus and to get get it under control so that it doesn’t threaten the general population, not to mention the economy, any longer. Well, that’s specific! Except for how to do this, of course. You have previously whined that Trump didn’t act soon enough—but when I pointed out that if he had done anything earlier than he did, the screeching outrage from you and your kind would have been even more deafening. So now you have dropped that, in favor of generic platitudes. And then you revert to your mandatory snarling: he doesn’t seem to care or even consider that he has a role to play.

        You are still claiming I am the one deleting your posts, yet you refuse to say where you got that impression. Obviously more crystal ball gazing. When I said there would be a quiz, it would have been on your response. But there was no response.

        You deal with another vague platitude, about the president “leading the federal government” and as usual dodge a request that you be more specific, claiming this is just a “gotcha” question, which you seem to think will cover your inability to answer it. You may get away with tossing out generic platitudes on other assigned blogs, but not on this one. If you’re going to whine that the president is not doing his job by “leading the federal government”—which, by the way, you imply by, yes, asking a “gotcha” question—-then you’d better be prepared to explain what you mean by that.

        “Eradicate” does not mean “continue to exist”. If you are not going to be coherent or accurate in your writing, be prepared to have this noticed. if the rate of person-to-person infection falls below R0=1, then it will essentially die out.—except no, not really. It’s still there, and it can and will pop up again.

        There is no way that the economy will get back to normal so long as the virus is spreading out of control. “Back to normal” is one thing—-“vastly improved and on the way to normal” is all we are asking for right now. While you screeching hysterics are getting the vapors over the numbers being tossed around and headlined by the Complicit Agenda Media, the gross numbers of positives are unreliable and not necessarily relevant. We don’t know how many of that number are actually testing positive, we don’t know how many are symptomatic, we don’t know how many are leading to death, and we aren’t factoring in the rapidly developing treatment modalities that make the virus so much more controllable as a disease. From my link in another post The CFR in the United States is currently just under 4 percent, but that doesn’t mean nearly 4 percent of the people infected by COVID-19 will die.

        So if the virus is spreading, as the hysterics howl, OUT OF CONTROL !!!!!, it doesn’t really matter that much if (1) many who test positive show no symptoms and can, therefore, go to work, (2) most who do have some symptoms can be successfully treated, especially early in the diagnosis, quickly recover and then go back to work, and (3) if the CFR is well under 4%—remembering that that is for people showing symptoms. If we can factor in positives who are not symptomatic that percentage fo CFR will continue to fall.

        You say He seems to think they he can just order school back in session, and tell people to live their normal lives, even though people are going to look at the facts and make those determinations based on their assessment of risks to their safety. Yet, oddly enough, he is NOT “ordering schools back in session”. He is strongly encouraging them to open, but he is fully aware of the scope of presidential authority and knows he cannot order any school to reopen. This is quite consistent with his pattern of restricting presidential authority to areas where it is granted through the Constitution. As for “telling people to live normal lives” he is certainly not only well within his scope of presidential authority to tell people he thinks they should start to do this, he is acting as a leader in encouraging it as well as encouraging school openings. Even you admit that people will make their own decisions based on their own assessments.

        Then you take a mandatory snarl break: I guess that’s his idea of leadership.

        Though there is no way to know if HE thinks this, it just so happens that I do. We elect a president to use his best judgment and provide guidance, as you say. Not to be a dictator, not to order people around, not to issue mandates, not to control people. Just to consult with experts, come to his own conclusions, discuss those with more experts, and then give the people his opinion. You can have a wall-kicking hissy fit because you don’t like that opinion, but you can hardly claim that promoting a policy he thinks is best for the nation and the people is a lack of leadership.

        What happens if we “get the virus under control now”? First, how would we do that, if the restrictions and mask wearing and glove wearing and hand washing and closures for more than four months didn’t do it? Second, wouldn’t that just be “under control” as long as the restrictions stay in place? So how long should children be kept out of school, businesses closed, people being out of work, businesses going under, and the population suppressed and confined? As someone pointed out in the article about Sweden and Denmark, trying to control the virus is just dragging out the inevitable reduction in cases due to herd immunity.

        For all your bleating, it can be distilled into a few simple words: Your Trump goggles blind you to everything but Trump hatred. The rest of your screed is just filler, words to try to make your hatred seem rational.

      • bunkerboy15 July 16, 2020 / 7:31 pm

        As you clutter your screed with snarling editorial commentary…

        Projection, much?

        when we cut through the BS all we find is that you don’t agree with anything the president did.

        You’re right. I’d be hard pressed to find anything he has done in his handling of the coronavirus crisis that I agree with. And if you look at the polls, most Americans agree. For starters, he has hardly done anything. This is emphasized by the fact that he invariable goes back to closing travel from China as his big, notable action–something he did months ago, and failed to actually do because some 40,000 people came from China after his so-called travel ban. So even there, he wasn’t effective. And in the meantime, the United States has had one of the worst outcomes in the developed world.

        But Donald Trump said it himself when he said, “I don’t take responsibility at all.”

        All the rest is gloss.

      • Amazona July 16, 2020 / 8:25 pm

        Does it really taste better the more times you cycle it through? Because all you do is regurgitate the same old same old, blah blah blah. Now that you have clearly said your piece, will you go away?

      • bunkerboy15 July 16, 2020 / 7:57 pm

        What happens if we “get the virus under control now”? First, how would we do that, if the restrictions and mask wearing and glove wearing and hand washing and closures for more than four months didn’t do it? Second, wouldn’t that just be “under control” as long as the restrictions stay in place?

        Okay, let’s address these questions.

        First off, the United States should have address this in a serious way in February and March, when the number of cases were in the dozens. It would have taken what at the time would have seemed like draconian measures, but it was necessary. Other countries have done it. By failing to do necessary isolation and contact tracing then, we forewent our best opportunity. Instead of advocating for such action, the president chose to pretend that the virus would go away. E.g, Feb. 26: “When you have 15 people, and the 15, within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.”

        Furthermore, when we saw what was happening in New York and New Jersey, we should have understood that the same thing was going to happen to other parts of the country and prepared for it. Instead, the president essentially blamed blue states for their own plights, and made no plans or assisted other parts of the country in planning for what was coming their way. Again, he pretended it wouldn’t happen, or blamed others when it did. So states like Florida and Texas followed Trump’s lead, and now look where they are.

        So now we’re in a very difficult situation. So long as the virus continues to run unchecked–or even if it is merely the perception that it is running unchecked–people are not going to go back to life as it was. Airlines know this and are planning to furlough half of their staffs in the coming months because there is so little demand for flying. I saw an informal poll the other day asking when people would be comfortable going to a sporting event: 75% of people answered “in 1 to 2 years.” No matter how much the president wants the economy to come back, it won’t under those conditions. And now some of the stimulus incentives passed by Congress and signed into law by the president are about to expire. Maybe he should advocate for their continuation, if for no other reason than for his own personal political interest.

        Until there is a vaccine, our only tools are isolation and mask-wearing and so on to cut the spread of the virus. Like I said earlier, if the infection rate goes below Rt of 1, then the spread will slow and eventually die out. Only eight states have an Rt less than 1. Colorado, just to name one state you’re familiar with, has an Rt of 1.15, meaning that each infected person infects 1.15 other people. That is a recipe for continued, accelerating spread.

      • Amazona July 16, 2020 / 8:30 pm

        Like I said earlier, if the infection rate goes below Rt of 1, then the spread will slow and eventually die out. . And like I said earlier, no it won’t. The only thing that is going to help is either herd immunity or a good vaccine. Well, we’ve been vaccinating for influenza for about forty years and still can’t keep up with the mutations, with only about 40% or so of vaccinations making any difference—maybe. Because if you don’t get it, there is no reason to know why.

        So just hunker down in the bunker, wear your face diaper, preen in your imagined intellectual and moral superiority, simmer in the toxic stew of your Trump hatred, and please stop bothering us. You are a useless bickerer

      • bunkerboy15 July 16, 2020 / 8:43 pm

        And like I said earlier, no it won’t. The only thing that is going to help is either herd immunity or a good vaccine. Well, we’ve been vaccinating for influenza for about forty years and still can’t keep up with the mutations, with only about 40% or so of vaccinations making any difference—maybe. Because if you don’t get it, there is no reason to know why.

        Right about vaccinating influenza. Which should make you worry about whether we’ll actually come up with a an effective long-term vaccination for COVID-19. Given that COVID-19 is so much deadlier than influenza should also make you worry.

        And we don’t even know if, having gotten COVID-19, an individual would develop long-lasting immunity to the disease. There is some evidence developing that they do not, which kind of throws off the whole idea of herd immunity.

        In addition, we don’t really know the long-term health effects on people that to survive COVID-19. And at the same time, we have people like you who want to go back to the health insurance world of preexisting conditions because, freedom. Your idea of herd immunity is going to create a whole lot of preexisting conditions.

      • Amazona July 16, 2020 / 11:09 pm

        And at the same time, we have people like you who want to go back to the health insurance world of preexisting conditions because, freedom.

        Once again, you need to stop paying attention to the voices in your head.

        Nice sneer at freedom, though.

      • Amazona July 16, 2020 / 11:34 pm

        Your idea of herd immunity is going to create a whole lot of preexisting conditions.

        But it was just a couple of weeks ago that you guys were touting “herd immunity”. Now it’s a bad thing? And why? Because we don’t know something. Yeah, that’s a hell of an argument. “We have no idea if there are long term health effects and that is going to create a lot of preexisting conditions”.

        This is what passes for logic and discourse on the Left. We simply recognize it as babble.

      • bunkerboy15 July 17, 2020 / 12:08 am

        But it was just a couple of weeks ago that you guys were touting “herd immunity”.

        You brought up herd immunity, not me.

      • Amazona July 17, 2020 / 12:46 am

        No, “herd immunity” was the goal, the gold standard, a few weeks ago. And then when thousands of people were testing positive without symptoms, or at least without being very sick, and when therapies were so successful the Left couldn’t keep denying them—meaning even sick people could be cured—then all of a sudden herd immunity was meaningless and then vaccination became the new Leftist mantra. The Left needs a crisis, and fear, lots and lots of fear. They don’t get that from the knowledge that the virus is not a death sentence, that it can be treated, and that as more and more people get it the safer we all are.

    • fieldingclaymore July 16, 2020 / 2:11 pm

      Unemployment is at 11%, the economy was not and is not booming. Never hit 3% yearly GDP let alone 4 or 5% as promised. Mexico did not pay for the wall, we are. Trade deals? You mean Nafta 2.0 and the China deal which is not happening. Trade wars and farmer handouts? Stay cool, giants fan.

      • Retired Spook July 16, 2020 / 2:24 pm

        No one is forcing you to abandon your TDS. Just go ahead and wallow in it — choke on it, but manifest it somewhere else.

      • Amazona July 16, 2020 / 2:29 pm

        As I said, you people just don’t make sense. The economy WAS booming, till we got hit upside the head with a virus that could be used to take down the economy and, if you people get your way, keep it down. Funny how you ignore the unemployment rate in, say, early January.

        Your understanding of “trade deals” is as superficial as everything else you mutter about. NAFTA was a disaster, I don’t know which “China deal” you say/hope is “not happening” and your simpleminded concept of Mexico paying for the wall (which seems to be Obrador mailing Trump a check every month).

        Keep your mindless parroting of Agenda Media talking heads and your third grade understanding of economics confined to the Liberal blogs where no one realizes how stupid they are.

      • bunkerboy15 July 16, 2020 / 6:13 pm

        The economy WAS booming, till we got hit upside the head with a virus that could be used to take down the economy and, if you people get your way, keep it down.

        Yeah. And the economy WAS booming before the housing and financial crisis that occurred at the end of the Bush administration.

        Look, nobody holds Trump responsible for the emergence of COVID-19. But it is completely legitimate to hold him responsible for this nation’s response to it. It is complete legitimate to blame him for the federal government ignoring the blueprints for response that were developed by the Bush and Obama administrations and so on.

        Presidents don’t get to choose the crises that they will have to deal with, but it is part of the job to deal with them. President “I don’t take responsibility at all” Trump seems to think that it is not. And you all pretend that nothing his his fault, so I guess you agree.

      • Amazona July 16, 2020 / 8:24 pm

        Yeah. And the economy WAS booming before the housing and financial crisis that occurred at the end of the Bush administration

        Yeah, the economy WAS booming till the inevitable crash of the lending market happened as the adjustable rate mortgages lenders were forced to make to unqualified borrowers by the weaponization of the Community Reinvestment Act, with activists blackmailing lenders with threats of federal lawsuits if they did not make these loans, inevitably started to go into default as the interest rates rose, leading to massive foreclosures and the accompanying death spiral of the home building industry. There: fixed

        Many critics of the CRA allege that it was a contributing factor to the 2008 financial crisis because lenders relaxed standards for mortgage approvals to comply with the Act. It was more insidious than that. When a bank would turn down a loan app because the applicant had no credit history, or bad credit, or didn’t make enough money to make mortgage payments, activists often organized “protests” at the homes of bank officials, with people on the front laws waving signs calling them racists, and federal charges were filed claiming racism. When a lender had such a claim filed, it could continue as it had been but could make no significant changes, such as opening a new branch. So, to avoid the traps of federal prosecution (requiring expensive defenses) and limitation of operations, lenders expanded the sub prime market, opening it up to unqualified borrowers. The market crashed when rates went up and mortgage payments went up. The CRA went into effect in 1977, but was not implemented as a tool for crashing the economy until well into Bush’s first term, with the subsequent crash happening toward the end of his second. (BTW, it has not gone unnoticed that the Left uses economic chaos as a weapon to take down political opponents. The CRA was relatively benign till it was used to destroy the economy, and there is growing evidence that the panic created around the corona virus has had the same impetus.)

        Look, nobody holds Trump responsible for the emergence of COVID-19. Then quit blaming him for the economic damage it has caused.

        it is completely legitimate to hold him responsible for this nation’s response to it. Yet you never say what should have been done differently

        It is complete legitimate to blame him for the federal government ignoring the blueprints for response that were developed by the Bush and Obama administrations Such as? You have often complained that some system was in place and then ignored. What system? What would Bush or Obama have done? Did that blueprint include replacing the PPEs that were used during the SARS epidemic? Because Obama didn’t do that. What other “blueprints” would have made a difference?

        If you’re going to quote the president, at least have the decency to use the entire quotation, in context. No, I don’t take responsibility at all,” Trump said about his administration’s lag in rolling out coronavirus tests, adding, “We were given a set of circumstances…it wasn’t meant for this kind of an event with the kind of numbers that we’re talking about.”

        So what was the "set of circumstances" he was given? And by whom? This is the kind of thing an honest person would dig into a little. Why did he think this was not the kind of event that called for a larger rollout of tests? When one complaint is in play, it is that the president doesn't listen to experts. Then when another complaint is desired, he shouldn't have listened to experts.

        I know from harsh experience what it is like to consult "experts" and hire them and pay them well and act on their "expertise" and find out they were wrong. There was "infighting" in the Department of Health and Human Services. Alex Azar "did not always give the president the worst case scenario of what could happen." The CDC botched the tests. The FDA, bogged down in bureaucratic sludge, was slow to react till the president cleared the way for faster response. Crucial supplies had been used up by the Obama administration and never replaced. And, then, of course, none of these players would take any responsibility for any of their own missteps, and instead jostled each other out of the way to point fingers at the president.

        Is it his responsibility that medical “experts” were adamant about not prescribing steroids, and believing the solution to lung failure was ventilators? Now that we know steroids calm the cytokine storms of inflammation that are the cause of most if not all of the deaths, and that ventilators killed people or at least permanently damaged them, where is the blame for the delay in dealing with the virus caused by these “experts”?

        More to the point, where is the blame for the deaths caused by the Complicit Agenda Media promoting the Leftist lie that hydroxychloroquine, used safely for half a century to deal with autoimmune overreactions, would kill people, scaring who knows how many thousands of people away from what would have been life-saving treatment? Where would we be now if, early on, we had taken the advice of experts and started every newly identified virus carrier on HQ? We know why we didn’t—because Trump, in his role as a leader, said it was a hopeful treatment, and that spurred the Left to sacrifice American lives to deny him the ability to help people deal with this problem and maybe be credited for helping.

        Yes, in a perfect world when the president took office he would have gone through each and every agency and, so to speak, checked the books. He would have counted the ventilators and met with everyone on down to the janitors and made himself confident that everything was exactly the way it should be. He would have evaluated the staff to make sure none were there for reasons other than expertise and competence. When he checked off an agency, any agency, he would do so knowing he had done the most extensive due diligence. But that is not the way the world works. And in government, it is really NOT the way the world works. In business, you can be fairly sure that any department is staffed based on merit. I am quite willing to say that by the time Trump got to the beginning of his fourth year in office he should have learned that in federal agencies it is dangerous to assume that, dangerous to assume each manager has done his job. But that is as far as I will go. He had every right to expect that every agency head had done his job, had the agency fully up to speed and ready to do what it is tasked to do. True, if he didn't do this the buck does stop at him, technically, but realistically no president can deal personally with every single aspect of every single issue. And he shouldn't have to, any more than a general should be expected to count gas caps and oil filters in the motor pool.

      • bunkerboy15 July 16, 2020 / 8:33 pm

        It is complete legitimate to blame him for the federal government ignoring the blueprints for response that were developed by the Bush and Obama administrations Such as? You have often complained that some system was in place and then ignored. What system? What would Bush or Obama have done? Did that blueprint include replacing the PPEs that were used during the SARS epidemic? Because Obama didn’t do that. What other “blueprints” would have made a difference?

        Glad you asked. This article by Jim Fallows summarizes what the Bush and Obama administrations planed for, and how the Trump administration ignored their work and was ill-equipped for a pandemic and failed the country.

        https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/how-white-house-coronavirus-response-went-wrong/613591/

      • Amazona July 16, 2020 / 11:21 pm

        That is without a doubt the longest, wordiest, and most carefully constructed hit piece I have ever read. Once again, when an article is so cluttered with ad hominem insults and slurs it is hard to take the rest of it seriously. Even when the article is thinly salted with objective information, wading through the snot is tedious. Mostly what i got out of it is what i get of the dreck you post—-you all hate Trump. But go for it—if you can cite any specific “blueprints” for dealing with a pandemic, do it. Don’t just dump a lengthy treatise on Orange Man Bad on the blog and act like you have answered the question.

        Nice melodramatic pearl-clutching, though—-be sure to get a lot of vibrato in this when you say it: FAILED THE COUNTRY

        But hey, what ever happened to your explanation of why you think I am The Boss Of Everything?

      • bunkerboy15 July 17, 2020 / 12:09 am

        That is without a doubt the longest, wordiest, and most carefully constructed hit piece I have ever read.

        It is also accurate.

        There is also a link in the article to one of the planning documents that the Obama administration left to the Trump administration, which promptly ignored it.

        78,000 new cases in the U.S. today, an all-time record, and 1,000 more deaths…

      • Amazona July 17, 2020 / 12:42 am

        You believe it because it fits into your echo chamber.

        The ghoulish glee of the Left as people get sick and die is truly disgusting. These numbers are essential to your political goals, and you love them. The thing is, no one knows if they are accurate or not. Real positives or “probables”? Deaths FROM Covid-19 or just WITH Covid-19? This has become so politicized and so weaponized there is no way to sort out the truth any more.

        BTW, according to Worldometer, there were only 783 new deaths in the entire world yesterday.

      • bunkerboy15 July 17, 2020 / 11:42 am

        BTW, according to Worldometer, there were only 783 new deaths in the entire world yesterday.

        Really? I just looked at Worldometer. The data for yesterday shows 5,742 deaths worldwide, 963 in the U.S.

        My statistic comes from the Johns Hopkins COVID-19 dashboard, which is what I monitor.

  4. Cluster July 16, 2020 / 2:30 pm

    It’s weird that our domestic enemies still think that we are focused on GDP, tax rates, trade deals, etc. when they are literally in the process of destroying the country from within. It’s bizarre and says a lot about their level of malicious intent. They have already started the war by killing innocent Americans, destroying small businesses, and ravaging inner cities so it’s just a matter of time before we engage … I am just waiting to see when that happens. And don’t think for a minute that they will stop when Trump wins in November, which I am convinced of. They will only ramp up their rage and hatred and racism, so conservatives and traditional Americans of all stripes need to start thinking right now what our next move is. Every conservative I have spoken with shares the same sentiment, particularly those friends of mine who have served in the military, that the Democrat party is now anti American and needs to be stopped …. or we will lose the country. That’s where we find ourselves in 2020.

    • Amazona July 16, 2020 / 5:05 pm

      A Trump win will result in these riots escalating to such violence the government will have to step in. And I am convinced it will. Right now, with the election so close, Trump has to be pretty careful. A new term with four years till a Republican has to run again will give him the time and clout to clean house.

      It is hard to imagine the Dems retaining the House. Just yesterday or today 207 Dems voted to give every illegal in this country $1200. I wonder if more than half of the constituents in these 207 districts will say they want to give $1200 of their tax money to every single illegal the Dems can find.

      I wonder if more than half of the constituents of those voting for impeachment agree it was a good use of their time and the tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars of taxpayer money spent to try to influence the election, even after being informed the charges were not legitimate and even after the lies of the committee were revealed.

      All but one Dem voted against the following resolution:

      Resolved, That the House of Representatives—
      (1) calls for justice for George Floyd;
      (2) calls for justice for officers and others who have suffered from violence at the hands of extremists;
      (3) strongly condemns the violence, riots, and looting in the United States;
      (4) recognizes that violent opportunists use the cover of legitimate protests by their fellow citizens to sow chaos;
      (5) recognizes that the actions of those committed to violence does not diminish the rights of other Americans to peacefully protest;
      (6) urges peace and order to be restored;
      (7) expresses that those responsible for these violent acts be held criminally responsible for their actions;
      (8) strongly opposes any effort to establish autonomous areas within the sovereign territory of the United States; and
      (9) strongly opposes efforts to defund, dismantle, or disband police forces.

      I wonder if more than half of the constituents of these Representatives agree with this vote.

      Among other things, the JUSTICE Act creates a federal system to track police shootings, requires police departments to report no-knock warrants such as the horrific incident in which police officers shot Breonna Taylor, institutes a grant program to help police departments gain access to more body cameras, requires police training on alternatives to the use of force and de-escalation, makes lynching a federal crime, and reforms law enforcement hiring and education. The act also creates economic incentives for local police departments to ban chokeholds. I wonder if more than half of the constituents of those who voted to block debate on the police reform bill agree that is should not even have been discussed.

      On Thursday, not a single Democrat in the House voted for a resolution condemning acts of violence and rioting — including the “deliberate targeting of law enforcement officers,” as well as opposing the defunding of police. Yet the people are overwhelmingly opposed to defunding the police.

      I hope I am right in thinking the radical Left is overestimating the support they can count on from average Americans who might not like Trump but who are not willing to destroy the country to bring him down, many of whom might also be seeing a disturbing hint of what life would be like in a country governed by the same left promoting this violence and anarchy.

  5. Cluster July 16, 2020 / 2:50 pm

    One way to combat the current war we find ourselves in, is to employ Alinsky tactics ourselves and one place to start would be the NFL. There are way too many black players, upwards of 70% I believe and that is not representative of America, so I am insisting that NFL team owners balance their teams racially. I want to see more Asian players, Hispanics, etc. Additionally, rap music is again dominated by black people so a more balanced representation needs to happen in that industry too. It’s only fair

    • Amazona July 16, 2020 / 3:44 pm

      I want to see more white players in the NBA.

  6. Retired Spook July 16, 2020 / 5:11 pm

    On a completely different topic, but since it is an open thread….. A few days ago our local “expert” weather forcaster predicted highs in the mid-90’s for the middle part of this week (Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday for you Lefties). Tuesday and yesterday were highs of 86 and 87 respectively. Last night he backed off and predicted 90 by 5PM today. It’s 5:10 PM, and it’s 78, which is the high for the day. Remind me again how they know what the temperature is going to be 50 years from now. And don’t even get me started on the zero chance of rain prediction for 10 straight days, during which time we’ve gotten over 4″.

  7. Amazona July 16, 2020 / 5:28 pm

    Since Matt won’t visit us here any more, let’s go on over and see what he has been up to.

    As usual, he has been sorting out the facts from the fiction, in this case regarding the reporting of the position of the United States and its COVID-19 response and rates of infection and deaths compared to other countries.

    While some squealing hysterics are ready to burn their passports (if they ever even got one) because now they are essentially useless, the United States being a plague state and all, it turns out that is pure crap. As hipster Uncle Joe would say, “bunkum”. Says Matt:

    I decided to look at the case fatality rate of the United States and compare it to select European countries. We often hear about how enlightened Europe is compared to the United States, with their progressive politics and various version of universal health care. So, let’s see how they measure up:

    How about that! Out of the twelve countries compared here, the United States currently comes in at the bottom, ranking at number eleven.

    And gee whiz, look at this! Regarding the Case Fatality Rate (CFR) : ” The United States’ CFR (3.93 percent) is significantly lower than the European Union (10.36 percent) and Canada (8.1 percent). That is even including the hellholes of New York and New Jersey.

    The CFR in the United States is currently just under 4 percent, but that doesn’t mean nearly 4 percent of the people infected by COVID-19 will die. According to the CDC, the overall mortality rate for symptomatic cases of COVID-19 is likely .4 percent. As so many positives are NOT symptomatic, clearly that ratio will decrease.

  8. Retired Spook July 16, 2020 / 9:04 pm

    Email from a mutual friend of mine and Amazona’s asking “if masks work, why don’t we issue them to prisoners instead of letting them out?”

    • Amazona July 16, 2020 / 11:30 pm

      Speaking of masks—have you compared the photos of Masked Biden with Masked Trump? Basically, Biden’s eyes seem to be pleading to be rescued, and he just looks like a hostage. Trump, on the other hand, looks bad-ass. Kinda funny.

      Speaking of funny—isn’t it funny how someone so totally inept, someone so totally lacking in intelligence or competence, has still managed to honor his campaign promises, make a good start at thinning out the de facto legislators running our agencies, and on so many levels pose such an existential threat to the Left that they will literally stop at nothing to make him go away?

      Another funny—–back to my comments about the Left’s Semantic Manipulation: In one of the hit piece garbage links by a troll the spin artist reframed the Deep State as, get this: the Stable State. Yes, the glory that is entrenched bureaucrats maintaining the stability a nation needs, the unsung heroes, blah blah blah.

  9. Amazona July 17, 2020 / 12:31 am

    Once upon a time I was a Liberal, what I call an Unexamined Liberal because while I had the emotions down pat, and some of the rhetoric, I had no idea of the underlying ideology I was supporting and enabling. It was just fun. It was what my friends did and said and thought, and it was entertaining to make fun of Republicans, but most of all it was a shortcut to the Higher Moral Ground. By mouthing certain platitudes and parroting certain attitudes, I could feel morally superior without actually ever DOING anything. It was very satisfying.

    I got a job that had me driving a lot and I started to listen to radio talk show hosted by a man named Mike Rosen. I hated Mike Rosen. He was MEAN to these sincere, perfectly lovely, passionate Liberals who would call in to tell him how wrong he was on so many things. I listened, because I agreed with everything they said, and wanted them to explain why I thought that way.

    So a Lib would call in and say something and Mike would ask what seemed like a perfectly logical question about why the Lib felt that way or believed that way. And I would listen very carefully, because I really wanted someone to explain to me why I though or felt that way too. But over time it started to sink in—-none of them could. Mike could explain his position, and he would, and it always made sense. But the Libs just couldn’t. When asked a question, the response was usually to come back with another question. Mike would say “No, this is my show and i make the rules—you don’t get to ask a question till you answer mine.” And I would hear the Lib do back flips to avoid giving an answer, or keep trying to change the subject.

    Basically, I started to realize I was on the wrong side. I wanted to be on the side that could explain itself, that was based on thought and analysis, that could defend its position without resorting to emotion, and that didn’t have to constantly skitter around from one topic to another when pressed for a straightforward answer. That is when I started learning about the Right, about the way the nation was formed and why it was put together that way, started to study the Constitution and admire it for its brilliance.

    Coincidentally, at about that time I met the man I would marry, a man who was a passionate amateur historian. Being around people constantly discussing history, mostly war history, I realized I didn’t care about what went boom nearly as much as I did about why it went boom, which led me into delving into the history of the Leftist movements, their beginnings, their patterns and their inevitable failures.

    It was a process, a journey. And even after I realized that the Dem Party was a sham, a thinly disguised cover for the hard Left, even after I saw through the posturing and the lies, I still had a hard time voting for a (gasp/choke) REPUBLICAN. Because even after having the illusions of the superficial enabling-of-the-Left pretense of political opinion dissolved, I still had some of that residual brainwashing making that last step hard.

    And to this day, I consider myself a Conservative, who votes Republican because that is the party most likely to enact my political values.

    More to the point, this journey educated me to the wiles, the rhetorical tricks, the evasions and the tactics of the Left when it tries to engage in discourse, as we see here. And the patterns never change. There is the announcement of a firm conviction, there is the emotional foundation for it, and when pinned down to factual support for it there is the predictable skittering off into evasions, ignoring questions as new topics are substituted, and the old answer-a-question-with-a-question gambit. With professionals writing the scripts and experienced trolls parroting them on sites like this the tactics have gotten a little slicker, but it is still the Same Old Same Old.

    If you read U.S.A by John Dos Passos, a former Leftist himself, you can see these tactics at work back in the 30s. You will see it when a Lib is interviewed on TV, though given the medium and the time constraints he or she will usually just devolve into trying to shout over the other person as there isn’t much time for the verbal maneuvering.

    Many years ago on this blog I stumbled onto a truth. In a sincere effort to find a common ground upon which to talk to a Lib I said “Why don’t we start with talking about our core political philosophy, to see if we have any common ground?” And he couldn’t explain an actual political philosophy. He couldn’t get past the emotion-driven hate-driven rhetoric—-this was back in the George W Bush days—to explain how he thought the nation should be governed. Since then, only one person has been able to explain a coherent political philosophy, and he was a Marxist. Every other Lib, without exception, has ducked the question and fallen back onto the hate meme of the time. Now it is Orange Man Bad. I’ve noticed that the long-term returning trolls have decided to deal with this question by making fun of it.

    But this is the reality of the Left, aside from the few ideologues at the top. They are emotion-driven, no matter how desperately they want to think they are intellectually based, and the emotion is always hate. Dress those two characteristics up any way you like when you peel away the verbiage and wipe off the spittle that is all you will find.

    • Cluster July 17, 2020 / 9:02 am

      And to this day, I consider myself a Conservative, who votes Republican because that is the party most likely to enact my political values.

      Unfortunately it’s the only choice we have and we still gamble every election season that weak people like Mittens might actually do something conservative.

      We have nothing in common anymore with Democrats …. nothing. Their only desire for this country is to change it into a dystopian multi cultural sewer and they are maniacal in that pursuit so the best way to combat this is to completely reject the premise of their argument which is usually fairly easy because their premises are usually complete bullshit. Yesterday was a good example when fielding pointed to the 11% unemployment rate and try to frame it as a Trump failure.

      The phrase “I can’t breathe” is the perfect whine from the insufferable WOKE progressives to which I happily reply … “I don’t want you to breathe”

    • bunkerboy15 July 17, 2020 / 11:45 am

      That’s a nice story, and I’m glad you found something to believe in. My own is more or less the opposite.

      Many years ago on this blog I stumbled onto a truth. In a sincere effort to find a common ground upon which to talk to a Lib I said “Why don’t we start with talking about our core political philosophy, to see if we have any common ground?” And he couldn’t explain an actual political philosophy.

      Sucks to be him, I guess. But stop projecting your experience with one “Lib” onto all of the other commenters around here. I mean, I don’t confuse you with Cluster.

      • Retired Spook July 17, 2020 / 3:33 pm

        That’s a nice story, and I’m glad you found something to believe in. My own is more or less the opposite.

        I don’t know too many people who have gone from Conservative to Liberal, but I’ll concede that there’s probably a significant number of you out there. Given that, and the fact that you’ve admitted to being issue focused, I want to ask you a very serious question. Is there ANY issue that you see that might unite the country? Is there any area of common ground between people like you and people like the Conservatives on this blog? We don’t always agree with each other, but we’re on the same page more often than not. I personally don’t see how this country survives unless there’s an answer to that question. And before you ask, no, I don’t think there is any area of common ground between Conservatives and Progressives in this country.

      • bunkerboy15 July 17, 2020 / 4:59 pm

        Given that, and the fact that you’ve admitted to being issue focused…

        Where did I admit that?

        I want to ask you a very serious question. Is there ANY issue that you see that might unite the country? Is there any area of common ground between people like you and people like the Conservatives on this blog?

        That is a good question. And I have to say, I’m fairly depressed about the level of partisan animus that exists in the country. I believe that it will change eventually, and for the good, because I am an optimist and I believe in America. But how and when, I don’t know.

        Common ground? Maybe we can start with the Constitution of the United States of America. Believe it or not, that would be my foundation for how I view the United States. Sure, we can disagree on the extent of the powers of federal government, but that doesn’t make you or I any less American. Those powers have been debated since the founding of the country and we’re still here.

        I go back to the Bill of Rights, which collectively guarantees the rights of individuals against the tyranny of federal, state and local governments. It is the foundation for everything that we stand for.

        And then I look at what is happening now, and I see those rights being trampled. Right now, as I write this, there are unmarked, unidentified federal law enforcement officers taking people off the streets in Portland, Oregon, because they are protesting. The same thing happened last month in Washington, D.C. What part of the Constitution justifies a federal secret police? And doesn’t the First Amendment protect freedom of speech, and “the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances”?

        At the same time, we have these homegrown militias, the three-percenters, and so on, claiming to be organized and armed in preparation for the event that the government imposes tyranny. Where are they now, when the government is doing exactly what they claim to be afraid of? It makes me think that their stated motives aren’t true—that is, their actual motives are partisan to put it politely. So yeah, it does depress and concern me.

        Anyway, thanks for asking.

      • Amazona July 18, 2020 / 12:20 am

        If we can disagree on the extent of the powers of federal government, then wouldn’t it make sense to discuss that disagreement? It seems to me that anyone who truly believes in the Constitution and in particular the Bill of Rights would have a hard time disagreeing with the severe restriction of the federal scope authority . To quote Wikipedia: The Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, was ratified on December 15, 1791. It expresses the principle of federalism and states’ rights, which strictly supports the entire plan of the original Constitution for the United States of America, by stating that the federal government has only those powers delegated to it; all remaining powers are reserved for the states or the people The amendment itself says: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

        This is the essence of conservatism, and I find it hard to understand how anyone could move from this position to one on the Left, which is what your comment suggested was your path, and still claim to be guided by the Constitution. Everything about the Left is antithetical to the Constitution, to its inception through its construction to its ratification.

        We have had extensive discussions about this over the years, here on this blog, and the federalists (including Spook and me) have gone back to the contemporaneous writings of the Founders, who had to start dealing with efforts to expand the size, scope and authority of the federal government when the ink was barely dry on the Constitution.

        What part of the Constitution justifies a federal secret police? What part of the Constitution forbids it? And undercover police officers have been employed at every level of law enforcement for as couple of centuries in the United States alone. An officer of an official police force who is working out of uniform is not “secret police”. Here we get back to the frivolous redefining of words to try to gain emotional traction in an argument.

        The First Amendment DOES allow for peaceable assembly and the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances. I don’t know what the people who were “removed” were doing, but I do know what this group of people had been doing for weeks now, and they went past “peaceable” weeks ago.

        Are people being “taken off the streets” just “because they are protesting”? Does this come down to a disagreement about the definition of “protesting”? After all, many claim that rioting and even looting are merely ways of protesting. But they are in fact violations of the law, as is occupation of property without permission of the owners. If people are peacefully and lawfully expressing their opinions about what they consider a wrong, then they should be allowed to do so. If they are threatening people, intimidating people, stealing, damaging property and so on they have moved beyond “protesting” and should be not just removed but possibly prosecuted.

        The same thing happened last month in Washington. But not really, Historically, at least since the inception of the presidential security detail of the Secret Service, crowds of people have been moved away from the immediate vicinity of the president. Whole streets have been closed, upper floors of buildings with windows looking down on motorcades have been vacated, and crowds wanting to shake hands with the president or just see him up close and personal have been moved back. If someone thinks that having a grudge or a gripe means this kind of security precaution should be set aside, he is simply delusional. The reason for wanting to be close to the president is immaterial (unless it is a desire to harm him, of course) but the reason for not allowing this is quite material, related to his safety and security.

        I have not seen an example of the government, in this administration acting tyrannical. In the recent past, yes, such as when the American Stasi spied on Americans to try to find something to use against them. Enforcing the law is not tyranny. You say Where are they now, when the government is doing exactly what they claim to be afraid of? I’ll tell you where they are—they are demanding that the government do its job and protect citizens from threats, arsons, looting, assaults and murder. They are not buying into the bizarre claim that protecting people from thugs, thieves and terrorists constitutes tyranny.

      • Retired Spook July 17, 2020 / 5:05 pm

        Where did I admit that?

        My bad if that wasn’t you. One of you trolls recited a litany of issues that he/she felt were important to most Americans several days ago.

        Your defense of the Constitution as a potential point of common ground rings so hollow I don’t even know where to begin.

      • Amazona July 18, 2020 / 12:41 am

        Well, it COULD be common ground if you would only admit that it doesn’t say what it says and doesn’t mean what it means

      • bunkerboy15 July 17, 2020 / 5:17 pm

        Reciting a list of issues that is important to you doesn’t make you issues driven. Maybe “the troll,'” as you put it, was actually asked what issues were important to him and thus responded.

        As for the Constitution, if you can’t even meet me there for a reasonable discussion of it, then yeah, there’s not a lot of hope. But that’s on you, not me. I made a good faith effort and I guess you aren’t willing to reciprocate.

      • Amazona July 18, 2020 / 12:44 am

        That was a “good faith effort”?

        Focusing on issues instead of objective analysis of the best way to govern the nation DOES make you issues driven.

      • Retired Spook July 17, 2020 / 5:41 pm

        But that’s on you, not me. I made a good faith effort and I guess you aren’t willing to reciprocate.

        It’s not that I don’t want to reciprocate; it’s that there doesn’t seem to be any point to it. It would be like arguing with someone who says my gas car engine would run better on diesel. We obviously see the Constitution through completely different lenses. Your understanding of the rights guaranteed by the Constitution and how the government is currently violating them are completely divorced from reality. Even your definition of “good faith effort” is completely foreign to me.

      • bunkerboy15 July 17, 2020 / 5:45 pm

        We obviously see the Constitution through completely different lenses.

        So how do you see it? This isn’t a trick question. You asked me a fair question. I gave you a good faith answer. Maybe I will learn something from your response to my question.

      • Amazona July 17, 2020 / 11:34 pm

        As usual, you manage to pretend to be responding to something without actually, you know, responding to it. For example, you say: “…stop projecting your experience with one “Lib” onto all of the other commenters around here.”

        Yet I made it clear it was not with ONE Lib but with every single one, with one exception. What I said,referring to the one Marxist who knew he was a Marxist and knew why:

        Every other Lib, without exception, has ducked the question and fallen back onto the hate meme of the time.

        But thanks for jumping in to illustrate why it is such a waste of time to talk to you people.

        What was your process, to get where you are politically? Do you actually believe in anything, or are you just a provocateur?

      • bunkerboy15 July 18, 2020 / 2:01 am

        What part of the Constitution forbids it?

        The Fourth Amendment.

        “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

        The use of an unknown, unidentified police force to remove protestors from the streets with no explanation whatsoever violates the Fourth Amendment. And that is what is happening.

      • Amazona July 18, 2020 / 8:41 am

        If you are going to pretend to be answering a question, at least have the integrity to cite the real question in context. What I said was: What part of the Constitution justifies a federal secret police? What part of the Constitution forbids it? And undercover police officers have been employed at every level of law enforcement for as couple of centuries in the United States alone. An officer of an official police force who is working out of uniform is not “secret police”. Here we get back to the frivolous redefining of words to try to gain emotional traction in an argument.

        You picked out the words “What part of the Constitution forbids it?” and then you answered with something that is simply false. You even quoted the article you say forbids the establishment or use of, as you call them, “secret police” which, of course, makes no mention of any such thing.

        And I pointed out, quite accurately, that a sworn officer of a legitimate police force or law enforcement agency is not required to wear a uniform at all times. These undercover officers do not in any way constitute “an unknown, unidentified police force”. This is one of the strangest lies I have seen you people come up with, and the goofiest.

        A warrant is not required to arrest someone who is in the process of breaking the law.

        According to you, people are not even being arrested, merely “removed” from property they do not own and where they have no legal right to be. And “with no explanation whatsoever” is really stretching your effort at outrage. Now you are offended, so very very deeply offended, that people were not reminded that they were on property where they were not entitled to be, doing things they were not entitled to do.

        This has nothing at all to do with the 4th Amendment. It is so funny to watch you people trying to fall back on the Constitution like this—it’s kind of like watching you name the new fascist movement in the United States “Anti-Fascist”.

        Kind of like calling the most illiberal political structure in the past two centuries “Liberal” or the most regressive political structure in the past two centuries “Progressive”. It’s the same semantic gamesmanship you guys always try.

      • Cluster July 18, 2020 / 9:00 am

        Truth be known … there are zero protests going on in Portland, OR. It’s ALL violence and destruction.

      • Amazona July 18, 2020 / 9:12 am

        Let’s just take a look at this alleged violation of the 4th Amendment by an allegedly “unknown, unidentified police force”. shall we?

        Protesters in Portland, Oregon, claim federal authorities are using unmarked vans to stop and seize demonstrators off the streets.

        Law enforcement officials from Customs and Border Protection’s Border Patrol Tactical Unit and the U.S. Marshals Special Operations Group were sent to the city to protect federal property following calls from some activists to tear down statues of historical figures.

        They appeared to be wearing patches on their arms identifying them as federal officers, but they were pulling protesters off the streets and into unmarked vehicles.

        Hmmmm. So it looks like (1) these thugs were not just appealing to the government to redress wrongs (“protesting”) but were stating an intent to engage in felony destruction of federal property, and were (2) simply removed from the area to prevent them from engaging in felony destruction of federal property (3) by fully identified federal officers from well-known law enforcement agencies but the whine is that they were doing this using vehicles not marked as law enforcement vehicles. Oh, and we shouldn’t forget—they were not told why they were being restricted from engaging in felony destruction of federal property.

        To put this in context, this is after “protesters” had already committed various acts of vandalism of city property..

        To REALLY put this in context, what happened was that a bunch of overgrown but infantile troublemakers were having a major temper tantrum engaging in some recreational property destruction and rebellion against authority and when it looked like it was going to escalate into federal felony territory some adults stepped in and put them in time out till they calmed down a little. And they are still having wall-kicking hissy fits about being treated like the whiny obnoxious little babies they are.

        I would have let them tear down the statue, come in with tear gas and SWAT teams, hauled their whiny little asses off to jail, actually CHARGED them with federal felony crimes (federal means the local Reds couldn’t just set them free) and prosecuted them, But the government, recognizing that these particular “protesters” are really just astoundingly immature brats, decided to treat them as such and merely intervened to keep them from hurting themselves.

      • Retired Spook July 18, 2020 / 9:14 am

        The Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, was ratified on December 15, 1791. It expresses the principle of federalism and states’ rights, which strictly supports the entire plan of the original Constitution for the United States of America, by stating that the federal government has only those powers delegated to it; all remaining powers are reserved for the states or the people The amendment itself says: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

        This is the essence of conservatism, and I find it hard to understand how anyone could move from this position to one on the Left, which is what your comment suggested was your path, and still claim to be guided by the Constitution. Everything about the Left is antithetical to the Constitution, to its inception through its construction to its ratification.

        That is about as concise an explanation of the difference between Conservatives and Progressives WRT the Constitution as I’ve ever seen, and makes it quite clear that the Constitution cannot be the point of common ground that we so desperately need if this country is to survive. The Hallmark of conservatism IS the Tenth Amendment, while the main thrust of Progressivism for the last century has been to ignore the Tenth Amendment and claim that the Federal Government can do ANYTHING that is not specifically forbidden by the Constitution. No other Amendment has been so willfully violated by so large a group of people — at least not yet.

      • bunkerboy15 July 18, 2020 / 1:42 pm

        According to those in Portland, “Federal law enforcement officers have been using unmarked vehicles to drive around downtown Portland and detain protesters since at least July 14. Personal accounts and multiple videos posted online show the officers driving up to people, detaining individuals with no explanation of why they are being arrested, and driving off.”

        No probable cause that a federal crime has been committed. The people being taken off the streets don’t even know who is pulling them off the street.

        The First Amendment says, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” There is ample evidence that peaceful protestors are being rounded up by federal agents who refuse to identify themselves as such.

        But it’s all okay with you guys. You all were paranoid when the US Army conducted exercises in Texas a few years back, thinking that the military was about to invade a state in its own country. You worried that men in black helicopters would come and take your guns away. No one took your guns away. Now we learn that they don’t use black helicopters. They use unmarked vans, instead.

        And the reason you’re okay with it happening now is that the current occupant of the White House has an R after his name. That, in a nutshell, is your so-called political philosophy. You will find any rationale to justify any behavior so long as its carried out by one of your own.

      • Amazona July 18, 2020 / 7:36 pm

        According to WHOM in Portland? Hysterical brats acting out their infantile authority figure issues? “Unmarked vehicles” are now…what? Sinister? Scary? GET A GRIP, PEOPLE! You’re breaking down fences, setting fires, threatening to tear down statues on federal land and acting the same way your fellow travelers have in other Dem cities where buildings have been burned and people killed, and you are sniveling because the adults in the room are keeping an eye on you? And you need someone to TELL you why?

        Just look at the content of your whimper: Unmarked vehicles!! No explanation!! “Detaining” and then (gasp! horrors!) DRIVING OFF!!! The pearl-clutching is reaching heretofore untold levels of fluttery outrage.

        No probable cause that a federal crime has been committed “…breaking down fences, setting fires, threatening to tear down statues on federal land and acting the same way your fellow travelers have in other Dem cities where buildings have been burned and people killed,…” Pay attention. The people being taken off the streets don’t even know who is pulling them off the street. Not our fault their schools never taught them to read. Patches, BB, identifying patches. Again, pay attention.

        “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people PEACEABLYto assemble, … You and Fredo might think there is nothing in the Constitution requiring “protests” to be peaceable, but as usual you are wrong. Again. “… “…breaking down fences, setting fires, threatening to tear down statues on federal land …” are NOT peaceable acts. They are crimes, or at least the first two are.

        Then of course you go off into the weeds carrying on about black helicopters and Texas and invasions and some goofball claim trying to link black helicopters to “(gasp!!) UNMARKED VANS!!!!!!!!!! And the mandatory deep dive into Identity Politics, with the expected projection of yours onto us. You are so predictable.

        There is ample evidence that peaceful protestors are being rounded up by federal agents who refuse to identify themselves as such. No there isn’t. You keep repeating “peaceful”. Let’s go through that again: “…breaking down fences, setting fires, threatening to tear down statues on federal land …” Not peaceful. There are ample examples of whiny snotnosed snowflakes taking videos of their whiny snotnosed friends getting an extremely mild, extremely gentle, tiny little taste of what lies ahead of them if they escalate their crimes, lessons being taught by officers wearing patches identifying their legal official law enforcement agencies. Funny how you can claim they are “federal agents” without any evidence, when according to the brats, they “refuse(d) to identify themselves as such.”. Make up your mind.

        But let me suggest a couple of scenarios:

        (1) I am a snotnosed brat stuck in that juvenile stage of arrested development where I think I know more than anyone and am entitled to do anything I want to do, and I think it is fun to pretend to be politically aware and hang out with my friends and make grown-up heads explode by tearing things apart, burning stuff and making threats to destroy valuable and cherished property. No one steps in to point out the dangers of this childish and reckless behavior. No one acts in MY best interests by trying to guide me away from the kind of actions that can affect my entire future if I end up arrested and convicted of crimes I am either now committing or talking about committing. So I go ahead, without any adult guidance, and I have a ball, tearing down statues on federal land and in general acting like a total A-hole, fully enjoying temper tantrums on steroids. And then I get arrested. Really arrested. Not just “detained”, not just questioned, but arrested. Cuffed, printed, photographed and put in a cell. Arraigned on felony charges, tried and convicted and sentenced.

        (2) I am a snotnosed brat stuck in that juvenile stage of arrested development where I think I know more than anyone and am entitled to do anything I want to do, and I think it is fun to pretend to be politically aware and hang out with my friends and make grown-up heads explode by tearing things apart, burning stuff and making threats to destroy valuable and cherished property. No one steps in to point out the dangers of this childish and reckless behavior. No one acts in MY best interests by trying to guide me away from the kind of actions that can affect my entire future if I end up arrested and convicted of crimes I am either now committing or talking about committing. My parents don’t step in, as usual—after all, there is a reason I am a snotnosed brat. The adults in my local government actually give or at least imply permission and approval, so I keep escalating my vandalism, my petty crimes become bigger crimes, and I am part of the group planning to execute a major federal crime. I am on the brink of getting myself in very deep trouble. Then a couple of guys in an (gasp!!!!) UNMARKED VAN !!! stop me and ask me some questions. They look scary. They are wearing cammies and look really official. They are wearing official-looking patches on their arms that look kind of military but I am too scared to try to read them. They take me off the street and talk to me about what I am doing and explain that I might end up in jail with a felony record and bankrupt my family as it tries to pay for legal defense for me. I am terrified. I am traumatized. But I go home and I stop vandalizing property, committing arson and planning to commit federal crimes. I am really angry that I was put through this truly scary experience, but deep down I am grateful that this was all it was, that it didn’t go as far as arrest, handcuffs, fingerprinting, jail and court time and maybe even prison time—-and a permanent record as a convicted criminal. I talk big to impress my friends, but deep down I know I was lucky to be one of those people detained and questioned and talked to.

        Clearly you prefer Option (1). But I suggest that Option (2) might just have saved some stupid kids from making serious and life-affecting bad decisions. Sadly, people like you will work very hard to convince them that what happened to them was wrong and a violation of their civil rights, blah blah blah. Hopefully some will see through that.

        For all the screeching you have been doing about how the president did not “do enough to head off” the corona virus outbreak, it is pretty funny to see you so outraged at federal officers out there on the streets trying to head off horrible and destructive bad decisions by immature people who are getting no guidance on maturity or decency from anyone else. Certainly not from people like you.

      • bunkerboy15 July 18, 2020 / 1:48 pm

        That is about as concise an explanation of the difference between Conservatives and Progressives WRT the Constitution as I’ve ever seen, and makes it quite clear that the Constitution cannot be the point of common ground that we so desperately need if this country is to survive.

        Glad you’re finally willing to engage in the question you yourself brought up, Retired Spook, even if it took Amazona’s words for you to do so. She also said the founders “had to start dealing with efforts to expand the size, scope and authority of the federal government when the ink was barely dry on the Constitution.”

        So this has been a point of contention for the entire history of the United States, and we’ve managed to remain a country all this time. Therefore, it doesn’t explain the current level of partisan animus that exists in this country today.

        I can think of various events that have taken place in recent decades that have exacerbated the divide, but I would say that the election of Barack Obama was an inflection point.

      • Amazona July 18, 2020 / 8:03 pm

        So this has been a point of contention for the entire history of the United States but only recently have the opponents to the Constitutional restrictions on the size, scope and power of the federal government adopted the tactics of violent overthrow of the government to try to establish their own. It is patently and blatantly dishonest to try to compare pushing for using the federal government as a source of charity during an economic downturn (The Great Depression/Social Security) to changing the entire nature of our government to one of a massively powerful Central Authority consolidating power in the hands of a few elites and stripping most personal liberty from the citizens.

        What the Left is trying to do, and is now openly admitting it wants to do, is to destroy every building block that made this nation great and replace them all with a political structure that has never succeeded and which is by its very nature guaranteed to fail every time it is tried. What building blocks? Well, there are the nuclear family, respect for religion, respect for life, the concepts of national identity and national borders and national citizenship, respect for the law, the mitigating power of the Electoral College, the limiting of the authority of the Supreme Court to merely determining the constitutionality of a law, the conviction that all men are created equal, the belief that legislation can only occur in the sole legislative body of the government and rejection of tyranny as seen in consolidation of power in the hands of a few elites and diluting the authority of the citizen. That’s a start on the list of what the Left wants to destroy so it can build, in the ashes of this once-great nation, yet another monument to corruption, tyranny and lust for power.

        How despicable to try to pretend that there is any legitimate comparison between wanting to have a national bank and wanting to “burn down” everything this country has ever stood for. How profoundly foul and disgusting to claim that there is any comparison between asking the federal government to take a role in welfare for the indigent and wanting to unmake the very framework of our nation and turn over much if not all of our governance to a global authority.

        You drift, sometimes, out of the shoals of absolute vileness a little closer to just being not very smart, and then you come up with something like this. You bleat: Therefore, it doesn’t explain the current level of partisan animus that exists in this country today. Well, uh, DUH, that can easily be explained by the fact that yes, there IS a difference between two parties both wanting the same thing and merely disagreeing on the best way to get it and one party wanting to save this nation while the other wants to destroy it. This might not explain to YOU why the stakes are higher now, but then—that’s just you.

        And what is really interesting is how big a role the Complicit Agenda Media play in this “partisan animus”. It’s amazing how peoples’ attitudes change when they hear the truth instead of propaganda, and when they are no longer immersed in the toxic swill generated and spread by the propaganda arm of the Left.

        Oh, and we can’t forget the role that trolls like you play, coming to sites like this and dumping your hate-driven lies.

      • Amazona July 18, 2020 / 8:26 pm

        In what way was the election of Barack Obama an inflection point?

        I can give you my opinion.

        1. His election was proof of the effectiveness of accusations of racism when no such thing was present. It showed us that many people are so terrified of being seen as “racist” they will go out of their way to convince people they are not, even acting against their own best interests to do. This weaponized the concept and the word, elevating them to near-nuclear power. It was this overreaction to the possible perception of racism that got him elected, when he was so clearly unqualified. It was this fear that made it possible for him and his surrogates to avoid the very serious defects in his candidacy—-no real history, no college grades or transcripts, no social security number, no selective service number, no birth certificate, no formal record of citizenship after decades of claiming to be born in another country, no passport records in spite of admission of international travel, no accounting for how his college expenses were paid—because even the most benign questions were dismissed with the claim that they were RACIST and therefore represented a serious character defect in the person asking. All of this not only allowed him to be elected in spite of being a blank slate with no experience and no qualifications, it also set the stage for the calculated rise in racial tension that followed his election.

        2. In a similar vein, his Leftist past, his friendships with anti-American voices and in some cases domestic terrorists, even his stated goal of “fundamentally transforming” this country, were not only off limits because of the weapon of the racist accusations that inevitably followed any comment or question. every instance of this strengthened the power of the word. The impact on our entire society of the distortion and weaponization of this word cannot be overstated. It is the cancer that is eating our society from the inside out. And it is the energy that is allowing the Left to increase its destabilization of our society and culture.

        3. The efforts of Obama, Holder and so on to promote a race war still have lingering effects.

        I suggest that the nation as a whole maintained a certain level of stability even while going through some major unrests, but the election and then the presidency of Barack Obama managed to disrupt that stability by introducing, enabling, supporting and promoting extremely toxic elements.

        I am sure you will say his terms were only pivotal because he was hated and opposed because he had dark skin.

  10. Cluster July 17, 2020 / 8:45 am

    We live in a world with way too many politically correct cowards:

    Major American companies were quick to issue statements in support of Black Lives Matter or social justice causes in the aftermath of George Floyd’s death, but dozens of those same firms that have operations in Hong Kong have yet to weigh in on the Chinese Communist Party’s de facto takeover of the city.

    https://dailycaller.com/2020/07/16/american-companies-geroge-floyd-hong-kong-security-law/

  11. Cluster July 17, 2020 / 9:12 am

    This would be the first step in healing our country. The defeat of Ilhan Omar

    New FEC filings in the DFL primary for her seat in Congress show Omar in serious trouble. The Star Tribune reported yesterday that challenger Antone Melton-Meaux raised seven times as much money as Omar, scoring $3.2 million against Omar’s $471K. Melton-Meaux now has twice as much cash on hand ahead of the August 11 primary:

    ANYONE who believes in Sharia Law does not belong in America and certainly not in our government.

    https://hotair.com/archives/ed-morrissey/2020/07/16/upset-brewing-mn-05-primary-omar-opponent-raised-millions-q2/

    • Amazona July 17, 2020 / 9:50 am

      ANYONE who believes in Sharia Law does not belong in America and certainly not in our government.

      And that takes us back to…..the oath of office. Does it mean something, or not?

      • Retired Spook July 17, 2020 / 11:33 am

        As you know, I agree with you on the oath of office. At what point, in your opinion, does someone who has taken the oath violate that oath? In the case of a judge it’s pretty cut and dried. In the case of a legislator, is it when he/she advocates for legislation that violates the Constitution? Is it when he/she writes or co-sponsors a bill that violates the Constitution? Or is it only if he/she VOTES for a bill that violates the Constitution?

        On a completely different topic, but one that is reflective of the mood in a large portion of the country, has anyone noticed what’s happened recently to the price of ammunition. I haven’t bought any in probably close to 2 years, but up until a few months ago I was getting daily email flyers from a half dozen ammo sites. I finally unsubscribed from all but one, and I got a flyer this morning for AR-15 ammunition from that site. Compared to what I last paid, the price has nearly tripled. A little surfing of ammo sites this morning confirmed that the last handgun ammo I purchased has also tripled. I guess that would dovetail with the record number of firearm background checks over the last few months. On the Five a couple nights ago Greg Gutfeld said he has just gone out and bought his first gun because of the lawless situation in NYC. It’s certainly anecdotal, but I can’t imagine that it’s going to help Biden come November 3rd.

      • Amazona July 17, 2020 / 11:40 pm

        On the oath: If a legislator swears to uphold the Constitution and then proposes a bill that violates the Constitution, OR votes for such a bill, I think that would violate the oath. But it’s a little tougher with legislation, because so many Constitutional restrictions have simply been ignored that now that all-powerful (to some) word PRECEDENT makes it harder to identify true violations. So I don’t think that proposing a welfare program would qualify as a real violation, but supporting the overthrow of the government would. If an oath includes upholding the law, then anything about refusing to follow the law, like establishing or supporting a sanctuary city or state or refusing to enforce a law would certainly qualify.

        I am now on a waiting list for three firearms. Guess I’d better start now looking for ammo for them.

  12. Cluster July 17, 2020 / 3:49 pm

    Here again is where we completely reject the WOKE premise:

    78,000 new cases in the U.S. today, an all-time record, and 1,000 more deaths…

    Who the F**K cares?? Cases don’t matter as approx 98% of those who test positive have very little symptoms, and deaths?? Does anyone have any idea of just how many people die everyday from all sorts of things? In 2018, 67,000 people died of opioid abuse, completely preventable and no one ever says anything. 169,000 people died from just accidents, car wrecks, slipping in bathtubs etc. Heart disease?? 647,000 people died from just heart disease in 2018 … strange that no one is dying of heart disease in 2020.

    We can not let the irrational fears of pajama boys, nor the malicious intent of the Democrat Party elite destroy our country. Of which they are in the process of doing.

      • Amazona July 18, 2020 / 12:40 am

        As I have noted, the ghoulish glee of the America-hating Trump-hating Left is downright creepy

    • Amazona July 18, 2020 / 12:39 am

      Not only are the quoted figures wrong in and of themselves, they are based on flawed data. When accounts are coming in daily from all over the country about people dying WITH the virus being reported as dying FROM the virus, fraudulent reporting of test results, fraudulent reporting by medical facilities to get the bonus money for treating COVID and general chaos in the entire system, no one can credibly claim to know how many people have tested positive or how many people were killed by the virus.

      These raw numbers don’t tell us, for example, if a “new” case is really a new diagnosis of someone who is sick from the virus or a positive test of someone who is not sick. If I am not showing symptoms but was exposed six weeks ago and today I test positive, I am listed as a “new” case today, even though the virus has run its course and tomorrow I would test negative .

      The Left has to keep this hysteria ramped up till as close to the election as possible. They need fear, lots and lots of fear, and they need people out there howling that the reason people are terrified is because….TRUMP. They are perfectly comfortable with the costs of fomenting and promoting this scam on the public. What they cannot tolerate is the specter of people catching on that this virus is not a death sentence, it is just another virus that was more lethal than most until we learned how it works and now it can be treated and now the danger is about the same as that of influenza. That is not the kind of news that lets people get back to work, back to school, and most of all to evaluate the choices in the upcoming election calmly and objectively.

      • Cluster July 18, 2020 / 8:56 am

        Additionally Democrats and the Media seem to expect the POTUS to micro manage every local school district. Do you think conditions on the ground are a little different in Cody, WY then they are NY?

      • Amazona July 18, 2020 / 9:15 am

        Not to mention that pesky old 10th Amendment that points out the total lack of federal authority in state educational decisions.

        But this is the game. When the president steps back into the designated area of presidential authority, they howl that he is not doing enough. But if he were to overstep his bounds and assume authority not granted to him by the Constitution, they would howl that he is a TYRANT and even a DICTATOR.. (And should be impeached.)

        But the thing every reaction from the Left has in common with ever other reaction from the Left is….howling.

  13. Cluster July 17, 2020 / 5:33 pm

    137,000 people died out of population of 335,000,000. .0004% of the population. And WOKE progressives are scared and allowing the government to shut down the country. Thank God people like you weren’t around in 1776, 1863, and 1942.

    • bunkerboy15 July 17, 2020 / 5:46 pm

      So “WOKE progressives” are 60% of the population? I don’t think so.

  14. Cluster July 17, 2020 / 6:08 pm

    .0004% of the population has died from a virus and for this we are voluntarily shutting down our country and our way of life. In what world does this make sense? Has anyone factored in the alcohol abuse, opioid abuse, child abuse, domestic violence, suicides and the millions of small businesses that have been permanently destroyed into that equation? This virus is 99% political. Just another orchestrated hit by Leftists

    • Amazona July 18, 2020 / 12:49 am

      Has anyone factored in the alcohol abuse, opioid abuse, child abuse, domestic violence, suicides and the millions of small businesses that have been permanently destroyed into that equation?

      Yes, and then decided it is all worth it if the end result is no more President Trump and consolidating more power in the Central Authority that is the wet dream of the Left. Just as the deaths of twenty million or so in Ukraine was an acceptable cost to Stalin if it led to him gaining more power. Just as death and misery are always considered acceptable by the Left in its pursuit of more and more power.

  15. Cluster July 18, 2020 / 8:51 am

    I usually don’t read much of what binary boy posts because well ….. but I can’t let this one go by:

    as I write this, there are unmarked, unidentified federal law enforcement officers taking people off the streets in Portland, Oregon, because they are protesting.

    What binary boy just described there was actually unmarked police quickly moving into violent areas of Portland and arresting those who have destroyed small businesses and other infrastructure. The police are unmarked because if they use squad cars, they get attacked immediately so they used unmarked cars and move in quickly, make the arrest and then get back out to prevent further violence. And these are protestors according to binary boy.

    Binary boy is a good example of all the annoying brain dead Democrats we have to live around.

      • Cluster July 18, 2020 / 10:55 am

        And how about Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings who stated that the government needs to give “space for protestors to riot” … they are subversive

  16. Cluster July 18, 2020 / 9:12 am

    Right about the same time George Floyd was killed, there was a white guy here in Phoenix who was shot killed by police. Well the body cam was released this week and it revealed that the guy answered the door with a gun but when he realized it was the police, he immediately turned around, laid the gun on the floor and got on his knees when he shot in the back by one of the cops. He was shot in the back by police. No protests, no violence, and little media coverage.

    • Amazona July 18, 2020 / 9:18 am

      Well, Cluster,this incident clearly calls for POLICE REFORM! Here’s an idea: Do not have a police department policy of shooting unarmed kneeling people in the back!

      Oh—you mean they already do not have such a policy? Great. Problem solved. Deal with the individual, forget the Collective, and move on.

  17. Cluster July 18, 2020 / 9:16 am

    So let’s all guess how binary boy would characterize the following incident:

    Model LAPD cop, 23, known as ‘top shot’ is being sued for shooting and killing a father, 38, who lunged at her with a box cutter, after BLM protesters called for action

    Here’s my guess – “A 38 year old protestor was kindly offering a box knife to an “unidentified militia” person when she needlessly opened fired and killed him”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8535627/LAPD-officer-known-prize-winning-shooting-skills-center-deadly-shooting.html

    • Amazona July 19, 2020 / 1:52 am

      Evidently the fact that he had fathered at least one child is supposed to excuse him for attacking a police officer with a deadly weapon.

      When police fired tear gas into a mob of rioters who had been assaulting other officers with various weapons, one of the projectiles used to deliver the tear gas hit a rioter in the head, causing a skull fracture. Nancy Pelosi, et al, are now characterizing this as the police “shooting people in the head.”

      (And BTW, the range of severity of a “skull fracture” is very very wide, and can be very minor. This is another thing never mentioned, along with the fact that he was hit by accident with a non-lethal projectile.)

  18. Cluster July 18, 2020 / 9:22 am

    Andrew Sullivan has learned a lesson the hard way. Never give an inch to the Progressive mob:

    Conservative writer Andrew Sullivan says his New York magazine colleagues believed his columns ‘physically harmed’ them and slams the mainstream media for being ‘self-appointed saints’

    You may all remember how “conservative” columnist Sullivan began attacking Bush and conservatives to curry favor with the Left back in the early 2000’s and for that he was applauded and held in high esteem amongst the Leftist elite. Well now his usefulness is over. Lessons learned

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8535107/Conservative-writer-Andrew-Sullivan-writes-final-column-New-York-magazine.html

  19. Cluster July 18, 2020 / 9:32 am

    So let’s just be completely honest about these riots:

    At least four protesters were injured and a dozen arrested in Chicago Friday after a protest at the Christopher Columbus statue in Grant Park descended into chaos. The main demonstration began earlier in the evening with a rally planned for Black and Indigenous people in Buckingham Fountain. Violence broke out as the group entered Grant Park as protesters threw fireworks and other objects at cops to force them away from the statue. They started attempts to pull it down but police returned in greater numbers and charged on them using tear gas to clear the area.

    The rioters are simply inferior people protesting their bettors. They are emotionally incapable of coming to terms with the fact that they don’t measure up, intellectually or physically. They are raging against people who are simply superior to them in every aspect of life – more courage, more intellect, more physical capabilities, more personal life ambition, more personal responsibility, and certainly more personal determination, all qualities of which lead to a happy and successful life. And in their ignorance and rage they are simply trying to destroy a system that they can not keep up with ….

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8535751/Protesters-hurl-fireworks-cops-protest-Christopher-Columbus-statue-Chicago.html

  20. Cluster July 18, 2020 / 11:07 am

    This site is great for perspective … too many frightened little progressives just have no idea how many people die everyday

    https://www.worldometers.info/

    There have been over 500,000 suicides just this year …. and abortions ???? Take a look at that and then remind yourself that the same people who support abortion are concerned about protecting people from the virus ….

    • Amazona July 18, 2020 / 1:00 pm

      Abortions? That’s just being proactive—kill ’em before they get sick and if they aren’t infected you can get good money for their little baby parts.

      I think I just mentioned the ghoulishness of the Left. Here is another example.

      • Cluster July 18, 2020 / 1:32 pm

        kill ’em before they get sick

        LMAO, that’s just morbidly funny

        So anecdotal story, the parents of a friend of mine went to get tested today at a testing center and after signing up to be tested and waiting for another couple of hours they decided to leave without being tested. They have just been notified that they tested positive.

        DON’T BELIEVE THE NUMBERS

      • Retired Spook July 18, 2020 / 1:47 pm

        DON’T BELIEVE THE NUMBERS

        Same with most polls. There has always been dishonesty among politicians and the media. It seems to have increased by several orders of magnitude in recent years.

      • Amazona July 19, 2020 / 1:34 am

        A man was killed in a motorcycle accident, but because he was positive for the virus, he was counted as a coronavirus death. The fact that such a thing could happen calls into question the entire reporting process, not just in Florida, but across the country.

      • Amazona July 19, 2020 / 1:45 am

        On a radio show the other day a man called in to talk about his neighbor, a firefighter and EMT who had been called out after an elderly man fell and hit his head. The victim died from his head injury but because a post mortem blood test was positive for the virus his death was listed as a COVID-19 fatality.

  21. Cluster July 18, 2020 / 2:35 pm

    I just came across the info below from a friend on social media. Haven’t verified it but have no reason to doubt it. Where is the Clinton Foundation now when so many fellow citizens could use the help???

    Have you wondered why the Clinton Foundation folded so suddenly after Hillary was no longer in a position of influence? Perhaps this summary will provide some insight?

    The below figures are from an official copy of the Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton Foundation tax return for 2014

    The Clinton Foundation:
    Number of Employees (line 5) 486

    Total revenue (line 12) $177,804,612.00

    Total grants to charity (line 13) $5,160,385.00 (this is less than 3%)

    Total expenses: $91,281,145.00

    Expenses include:
    Salaries (line 15) $34,838,106.00
    Fund raising fees (line 16a) $850,803.00

    Other expenses (line 17) $50,431,851.00
    Travel $8,000,000.00
    Meetings $12,000,000.00

    Net assets/fund balances (line 22) $332,471,349.00

    So it required 486 people, who were paid $34.8 million, plus $91.3 million in fees and expenses, to give away $5.1 MILLION! And they called this a CHARITY?

    • Amazona July 18, 2020 / 10:23 pm

      “Other expenses” seems to cover quite a bit of disappeared money.

  22. Cluster July 19, 2020 / 8:52 am

    What the Left is trying to do, and is now openly admitting it wants to do, is to destroy every building block that made this nation great and replace them all with a political structure that has never succeeded and which is by its very nature guaranteed to fail every time it is tried.

    Exactly which is why I don’t understand the continued argument over the Constitution with subversives. We are way beyond that point with these current Leftists and far it be it from me to point that out … as you all well know I use to enjoy the debate with Democrats and went out of my to seek that verbal confrontation but at some point you just have to cut bait. That was still a time when “liberal” Democrats still had a sense of patriotism however they have completely abandoned that notion now and are simply dead set on abolishing the Constitution and ripping apart the fabric of this country. I read the following on Limbaugh the other day

    “Trump supporters realize we’re in a war for the survival of the country — a war we didn’t start and one we’ll lose if we don’t fight back with every fiber of our being.”

    This is exactly where we are at. It’s a non violent war at this point, but that could change.

  23. Cluster July 19, 2020 / 10:20 am

    What this guy said

    Instead of protecting their own constituents, Democrats use their voters like political pawns, to be sacrificed if necessary, in order to win the game no matter the cost. It seems obvious (at least to me) that Democrats perceive some political advantage to either creating or fomenting as much chaos and destruction as possible within the relative safety of their own political domains in order to blame their problems on President Trump.

    https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/07/chris_hayes_explains_it_all_for_you.html

  24. Amazona July 19, 2020 / 5:47 pm

    Time to revisit the “peaceful protests” in Portland.

    On Saturday evening, two groups of antifa and Black Lives Matter rioters terrorized Portland, squaring off against police and federal troops. One group attacked the Portland Police Bureau’s North Precinct and the Portland Police Association (PPA) — the police union — while the other group targeted the federal courthouse and Justice Center, returning to set yet another bonfire at the ruins of the elk statue nearby. Antifa broke into the PPA and set it on fire. Before the violence began on this 51st day of unrest in Portland, Mayor Ted Wheeler (D-Portland) decided to hamstring federal troops, aiming to prevent local law enforcement from teaming up with them.

    According to a police report, an angry crowd first marched to the Portland Police North Precinct at around 8:35 p.m., blocking the streets as they went. “Some people tampered with gates, broke patrol vehicle windows, and vandalized patrol vehicles. People taunted officers as they arrived to work,” the police reported. The crowd blocked streets around the precinct.

    At around 9:27 p.m., the police directed people to leave to the west. The crowd walked to the PPA offices, arriving at about 10:31 p.m. The antifa rioters broke into the front doors while others blocked a nearby street with dumpsters that they lit on fire. “Many in the crowd wore helmets and carried clubs and shields.”

    At about 10:45 p.m., antifa rioters broke into the PPA office and ignited a fire inside. When the police arrived, many of the rioters began to flee to the east. Portland Police declared a riot and urged the crowd to move east. As the crowd dispersed, police arrested several rioters and extinguished the fire.

    The northern group of rioters had not finished their violence for the evening, however. Antifa regrouped and the police arrived to attempt to restore order. As police arrived, rioters threw rocks and launched paint-filled balloons at officers. According to the police report, the antifa rioters also shot gopher gassers at police — toxic gases designed to kill gophers and ground squirrels. This onslaught injured some police officers.

    Finally, at around 11:30 p.m., officers broke up the crowd into small groups, and order was restored.

    Meanwhile, another group of antifa rioters targeted the Justice Center and the federal courthouse. They tore down fences around Chapman Square Park and Lownsdale Square Park — where antifa had temporarily set up an “autonomous zone” last week. Police broke up that encampment and closed down the parks for repair.

    Rioters also removed fencing around the federal courthouse and used to to barricade the doors. Others used fencing to block the doors of the Justice Center.

    Remind me—what are these peaceful people protesting? Oh, I know there are the standard complaints about alleged police brutality, fed by things like the fake Atlantic story about a cop shooting a writer’s friend, but really—what effect is rioting supposed to have on the actions of a few cops which might be seen as too extreme?

    These thugs are a combination of professional agitators and recreational rioters. The former do it for political reasons, the latter for fun. So I think we can eliminate those two “P” words from the narrative. They are neither peaceful not protesting

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