Open Thread

Trump announces for 2024, McConnell gets re-elected as Senate GOP leader, the GOP takes the House.

A lot of people are saying a lot of things about what this means and making their stout assertions of what will happen. Spoiler: nobody has the first clue. If the election we just had didn’t tell you that you can’t predict things, then nothing will. As for me, I predict nothing. I will pay no attention to any poll. I will pay no heed to the Experts telling us how it will go. It will be as it will be and we’ll find out after it is over how it went.

That said, there is still much we can say. And of course I’ll say it!

Trump’s speech last night was rather low key, wasn’t it? I’ve never subscribed to the view that Trump is unscripted: I’m pretty confident that he plans everything out to the last detail. So, that was the effect he wanted to present. Why? Could be because after last week’s disaster, being too rah rah would look ridiculous. Could also be that he’s trying to overall strike a new tone: “look, guys, it is bad: we can fix it, here’s how”. Could also be influenced by the potential GOP field…you know, look weak and see who strikes first and then your response is a counter-attack which, no matter how blistering it is, always seems fair turnabout by regular folks.

As for myself, I have decided not to commit myself to anyone this early on. I’m going to see how it plays out. As we get to the end of 2023 I’ll probably decide who my candidate is but even that is subject to change based on circumstances. I really don’t think anyone is wise to commit this early. Once you start getting invested in a thing, you start to blind yourself to possible alternatives. I’m keeping my powder dry.

A lot of Never Trump is now gleeful thinking that the Bad Orange Man is done. He may be! But don’t count on anything. Certainly don’t count Trump out given what we’re getting in the Senate. The bottom line is that a huge portion of the GOP base despises the GOP leadership – and the Senate GOP leadership in particular. I have had a lot of respect for McConnell but I do believe his time is done and he’s making a mistake by hanging on – and if it starts to look like he only hung on thwart Trump, then Trump’s stock with the GOP base will only grow and solidify. McConnell is very much the past presiding over the councils of the present – and his post election statement about finding ways to work with Biden caused immediate outrage. We didn’t send GOPers to Congress to pull Biden’s chestnuts out of the fire! McCarthy, set to be Speaker, seems to at least understand this a bit. He’s a squish, but he also doesn’t hold the base in contempt the way McConnell does. With Mitch there making deals with Biden, Trump will have the perfect foil for a GOP primary – and his opponents will be faced with the stark choice of denouncing McConnell or being seen as Establishment tools.

I make no predictions but I’m working on the assumption that we’re going to lose 2024. Always hard to pry the incumbent Party out of the White House, no matter. Absent a complete economic meltdown (a 50/50 prospect at the moment), let’s just say we’re gonna lose. This, first off, will make any defeat feel less bad – and it can also impel us to try things. Zeldin is pushing to be RNC chair and he has it right: you fight in every precinct. You don’t resign any of the board to the enemy. I think that if we discard the worn out notions of the past and simply try new things we might get some remarkable results. As we can’t change the early voting laws in Blue/Purple States, use them (it is already being done to great effect in NY and CA – and Newsom, the Democrat’s rising star, is way underperforming what was expected because of it). Find a guy or gal to run in the Deep Blue. Mike Garcia is apparently the Giga-Chad: I guess he won a Biden +8 district in 2020 so the Democrats decided to get rid of him by making his district Biden +12..and he still won easily. While voting in the House like he represents Alabama! One jokester said “its 2032, Democrats redistrict Garcia into downtown Los Angeles and swear they’ll get him this time!”. Mostly what it shows is that if you try and find the right message and messenger, no place is really off the table.

That is the attitude I want us to carry into 2024: lets just fight. Do our best. Try something new. It can’t possibly go any worse than it just did!

What I’m also thinking is that DeSantis should think carefully here. I don’t go with the Trumpsters who think he’s just a GOPe mole. He came out of the GOPe, but his fights against woke Corporations show that he’s learned the lesson. Mitch and Co might think that RDS is their ticket back…but they may find that, as the GOPe did with TR, that they just made that damned cowboy President. My concern is that if 2024 is a loser, then we don’t want to expend RDS in a bruising fight to beat Trump and then have him lose the White House. If I were an RDS advisor, I’d be thinking long and hard about telling my guy to back away from 2024. Or make only a token run and then get behind Trump. It works like this:

If you get behind Trump and work your tail off for him, you’ll build up huge goodwill with the Trumpsters. They won’t forget: they’ll be in your pocket for 2028. This works out even if Trump loses. If, however, Trump were to win then its still just 4 years, Trump can’t run again and you’ve not only got the Trumpsters in your pocket, you’ve got the President clearing your path in the primaries in 2028. Plus if we do win in 2024, we’ll almost certainly be coming in during a time of severe economic pain that will take years to dig out of. Might be better to let Trump tackle that: he’ll be free to piss people off, after all.

Anyways, that is mostly where my thinking is right now. I will add one last thing: the only people I’ll pay no attention to at all are those who say they won’t back the GOP nominee unless it is their choice. Such people – and there are Trumpist and Never-Trump people like this – are not only useless, they are destructive. I’ll vote in 2024 for whomever is on the GOP ticket because that person will always be the moral and intellectual superior of the Democrat. If a person can’t commit to that, then get out: we got better things to do.

82 thoughts on “Open Thread

  1. casper3031 November 17, 2022 / 1:44 am

    The next couple of years are going to be very interesting.

    • Amazona November 17, 2022 / 9:21 am

      Avoiding the issue of one human being owning another? I can see why. It wipes out the whole “dignity of personal autonomy” thing that is the alleged basis of government-sanctioned slavery and killing of owned human beings (slaves).

      • casper3031 November 17, 2022 / 1:04 pm

        Not sure what you are talking about. Of course I’m against slavery.

      • Cluster November 17, 2022 / 1:46 pm

        But you are for government mandated health care, government mandated vaccines, and government mandated diversity, equity, and inclusion quotas so tell us again … how much freedom are you really for?

  2. Amazona November 17, 2022 / 9:29 am

    From NBC News:

    Moms for Liberty-backed school board members fire superintendent, ban critical race theory

    On Tuesday evening, the Berkeley County School District in South Carolina swore in the board members who were elected last week, six of whom were endorsed by the conservative activist group Moms for Liberty.

    Within two hours, the school board had voted to fire the district’s first Black superintendent, terminate the district’s lawyer, ban critical race theory and set up a committee to decide whether certain books and materials should be banned from schools.

    In addition, the board voted to replace the chair with Mac McQuillin, a local attorney and one of the board members backed by Moms for Liberty.

    NBC News says this like it’s a bad thing.

    • Retired Spook November 17, 2022 / 9:38 am

      Reminds me of the old lawyer joke: what do you call 50 lawyers tied together, weighted down with cement blocks and thrown in the ocean? A good start.

    • casper3031 November 17, 2022 / 1:10 pm

      CRT has only been taught on a graduate level. What they are actually banning is history. As far as banning books, sounds like something fascists would do.

      • Cluster November 17, 2022 / 1:44 pm

        That’s just either ignorance or dishonesty. There were numerous parents at school boards earlier this year detailing the CRT curriculum agenda in elementary schools to the point that the FBI wanted to imprison them. And in terms of banning books, tell me about the adventures of Huck Finn and how those lessens are taught in schools today.

      • casper3031 November 17, 2022 / 3:08 pm

        “There were numerous parents at school boards earlier this year detailing the CRT curriculum agenda in elementary schools”
        The upset parents were protesting the teaching what really happened in history. They got whipped into a frenzy by Right wing media.

        As for using The Adventures of Huck Finn, it would be a perfect introduction as to life in the mid 1800s.

      • Mark Noonan November 18, 2022 / 1:01 am

        Casper – today the Democrats and the MSM were running with a story that Youngkin was banning the mention of MLK in schools. It was a complete fabrication from start to finish. But that is the sort of information which is conveyed to you – and you just believe it.

        Nobody on the right is banning history – what we’re banning is falsehoods like the 1619 Project. We’re banning an absurd, Marxist set of lies about the United States and the larger West. We’re banning a system of teaching which would concentrate on some obscure actor in history because they are not male and/or white while ignoring the main flow of the Narrative. We don’t want the kiddies concentrating on some second-rate modern poet while Shakespeare is ignored.

        And we’re also tired of it all – this whole campaign to denigrate our civilization and achievements. Hate to break it to you, Casper, but the only non-western ideal which has any staying power is Islam – and that, itself, started as a Christian heresy. You’ve really got a choice if you want to have a worldview which has any oomph behind it: you can be Christian (or Jewish, which Christianity grew out of), Muslim or Marxist. The rest of the world simply has nothing to offer. The greatest works of Hindu and Chinese civilization don’t measure up to things like the Aquinas’ “Summa” or Aristotle’s “Metaphysics”. Even Marx’ works are simply better – in the sense of being a complete worldview – than any non-Western philosophy…it is why people still talk about them, in Aristotle’s case 2,300 years after his death: because he actually did something worthwhile.

        For all the beauty that you can find in non-Western art, architecture and music you can’t find the equivalent of Sistine Chapel, the Parthenon or Mozart. There are lots of reasons the West simply got better than anyone else but if you want to know a prime reason it is just like in real estate: Location, Location, Location. Blessed by large numbers of navigable rivers, containing multitudes of excellent harbors and being positioned to accept influences from Africa and Asia, the Western world was fertilized by massive intellectual cross-polinization. Inheriting the entire legacy of humanity outside the Americas, the West just did better – and always did better. And made more of what is important in the world than any other part of the world…so that you can entirely ignore Asian and African history and still learn enough about the human condition to understand humanity. We don’t want an education system that tries to elevate an obscure Asian scholar at the expense of learning about what really mattered – what actually had massive effect not only in Europe, but eventually even where that obscure Asian scholar lived.

      • Cluster November 17, 2022 / 3:44 pm

        So now you’re admitting that CRT is taught in elementary schools, and even saying that CRT is the correct version of history. And that happened quickly. First you denied it. Then you excused it and defended it.

        You’re the perfect Democrat.

      • Amazona November 17, 2022 / 4:39 pm

        What they are actually banning is history.

        We never know, when casper tells us something like this, if he is really that stupid or just messin’ with us. (I’m going with “just that stupid” after years of dealing with his babbling.) This eagerness to obediently parrot the radical narratives is pretty creepy.

        But then he doubles down: As far as banning books, sounds like something fascists would do.

        “Fascists”? Oh, yeah—the Word Of The Month on the Left. I also see the Leftist trick of simply eliminating some words, to taint a comment. In this case he edited out the words “in schools”.

        The school board did not “ban books” in general. Those books are still available. They can be checked out of pubic libraries, they can be bought, they can be sold and traded, they can be read aloud. They are not removed from pubic consumption. So no, they are not “banned”. Sorry, casper, but your sad tired little effort to regurgitate favorite Lefty talking points just left you looking dumb, as usual.

        But your snark, trying to find a way to slime people who care about children by calling them names, makes me wonder why you find it objectionable to remove sexually explicit material from school libraries. You see, like so many of your fellow travelers, when you think you are attacking something you are really revealing something about yourself.

      • casper3031 November 17, 2022 / 8:10 pm

        “So now you’re admitting that CRT is taught in elementary schools,”

        No cluster, I was quoting your words back to you. I then very clearly explained the whole thing was made up by right wing media.

      • Cluster November 17, 2022 / 8:40 pm

        CRT is a right wing media construct? The 1619 Project doesn’t exist either? And all those parents just don’t understand what their children are being taught? Help me out here?

      • Amazona November 17, 2022 / 8:59 pm

        You “clearly explain” a lot of things, and it can be very entertaining to watch.

        What happened was that CRT started off as an academic exercise, taught in law schools and other higher education venues. As students got their advanced degrees and got out into the world, especially teachers, they were so enamored of the radical Leftist messaging that they started to teach it in their own classes.

        This was kept pretty much under the radar till Covid, when parents could actually be in the room when their kids were in class. And that is when the excrement hit the ventilator. “You’re teaching my kids WHAT?!” The silly teachers explained that what they were teaching was really accepted philosophy, called Critical Race Theory. And that’s what it was called. It was identified as such.

        THEN when this started to pick up steam, they realized they had said too much and backed off, claiming that no, of course not, CRT was merely an abstract concept taught only in graduate level courses, just an academic exercise in critical thinking. That fell apart when parents looked up curricula online and found school after school proudly proclaiming its teaching of CRT.

        The exposure of this radical Leftist, Marxist-inspired indoctrination came from “right wing media”—-also known as the only real journalism in the country. They exposed it—they didn’t “make it up”.

        Only someone pathetically politically illiterate, who bases his alleged political philosophy on personas and what he is told to think by Leftist media, could possibly be so dense as to claim that a radically Leftist Marxist theory was “made up” on the Right.

      • Amazona November 17, 2022 / 9:07 pm

        some left-wing K-12 teachers openly admit they approve and seek to transmit CRT concepts to their students. A current assistant principal at the Castle Bridge School in Washington Heights, New York, David Rosas, said on Chalkbeat that the controversial topic “is not something I will shy away from… Critical race theory is interwoven in all that I do.”

        “I needed space to be a teacher who was racially literate and racially radical,” he continued.

        A Detroit superintendent, Nikolai Vitti, publicly admitted during a school board meeting that CRT was embedded within the schools’ curriculum.

        “Our curriculum is deeply using critical race theory, especially in social studies, but you’ll find it in English, language arts, and the other disciplines,” Vitti said. “We’re very intentional about creating a curriculum, infusing materials and embedding critical race theory within our curriculum.”

        When asked by Fox News Digital on how he would respond to the claim that CRT is only taught in law schools, Kinnett said, “That is an incredibly ignorant way of viewing what graduate-level theories are for.”

        Kinnett explained that during the course of his Master’s studies he was taught CRT and how to apply it into lesson plans in K-12 classrooms.

        “We learned all kinds of educational theories that we were expected to put to use in the classroom,” he said.

        Kinnett added that CRT concepts taught in classrooms include telling “students that every problem is a result of White men. And that … everything Western civilization built is racist capitalism and a tool of white supremacy – those are straight out of Kimberlé Crenshaw’s main points verbatim in [her book Critical Race Theory: The Key Writings That Formed the Movement].

        This is from a two minute online search on CRT in schools. Doesn’t Hawaii have the Interweb? Or are you just too lazy/deeply embedded in your little bubble of pseudo-political awareness, to bother finding out what is going on before you announce that this was all just “made up by right-wing media”?

      • casper3031 November 17, 2022 / 9:12 pm

        I’ll let you read the article. Basically it is something being explored at a few law schools. Some right-wingers learned about it and used the term to scare the hell out of their followers. I’d never heard of it until it popped up here and on Facebook. There isn’t a CRT curriculum for public schools that I am aware of. Right wingers are using the term to scare parents that something nefarious is being taught to their children.
        What I taught was history. I used primary sources as much as possible let my students draw their own conclusions as to what actually happened. None of the history books that I or any of my colleagues used were based on CRT.

      • Amazona November 17, 2022 / 10:10 pm

        There isn’t a CRT curriculum for public schools that I am aware of

        I think I made that point for you. The part about you not being aware of it, I mean.

        Right wingers are using the term to scare parents that something nefarious is being taught to their children.

        Actually, it is the parents who are the driving force, not some bogey-man “right-wingers”. And they are basing their concerns on what they see, for themselves, in their own schools.

        So when online-listed curricula admit to having CRT, or CRT-inspired, philosophies in their classrooms that tells you that “right-wingers” are inventing phantoms to “scare the hell out of their followers”? When school boards, principals and teachers all openly admit to having CRT as the basis for everything they teach, this tells you that “right-wingers” are inventing phantoms to “scare the hell out of their followers”? How about when a teacher, who studied CRT as a teaching tool, says that parents are overtly being lied to about CRT?

        Tony Kinnett, a former Indiana school administrator who was placed on leave after exposing CRT curricula at his school in a video posted on Twitter, also said that parents are overtly being lied to about CRT.

        “Parents, when we tell you critical race theory isn’t taught in our schools we’re lying. Keep looking,” the whistleblower said. “It means one thing, go away and look into our affairs no further.”

        When asked by Fox News Digital on how he would respond to the claim that CRT is only taught in law schools, Kinnett said, “That is an incredibly ignorant way of viewing what graduate-level theories are for.”

        Kinnett explained that during the course of his Master’s studies he was taught CRT and how to apply it into lesson plans in K-12 classrooms.

        “We learned all kinds of educational theories that we were expected to put to use in the classroom,” he said.

        So what, exactly, did he mean when he said that claiming that CRT is only taught in law schools is “…an incredibly ignorant way of viewing what graduate-level theories are for”? Isn’t he saying that graduate-level theories are taught so they can be incorporated into teaching?

        Actually, he goes on to say that very thing. Kinnett explained that during the course of his Master’s studies he was taught CRT and how to apply it into lesson plans in K-12 classrooms.

        “We learned all kinds of educational theories that we were expected to put to use in the classroom,” he said.
        An Illinois high school history teacher, Frank McCormick, told “Fox & Friends” that he decided to blow the whistle on what was being taught at his school because parents are being “gaslit into this lie that CRT does not exist in [K-12] education.”

        A schoolteacher from New York City, Paul Rossi, said in Bari Weiss’ “Common Sense” Substack that his students are frustrated with the indoctrination pedaled through Grace Church High School.

        “[M]y school is asking me to embrace ‘antiracism’ training and pedagogy that I believe is deeply harmful … [for] any [teacher] who seeks to nurture the virtues of curiosity, empathy and understanding,” he said. “[Students] report that, in their classes and other discussions, they must never challenge any of the premises of our ‘antiracist’ teachings, which are deeply informed by Critical Race Theory.”

        Illinois, Indiana, California, New York City, Washington Heights, New York, Missouri…and these are only the states referenced in one article.

        So you, a retired middle school teacher from a small Wyoming city, so ignorant of history that he taught that believing in the Constitution as it is taught means believing that we should return to slavery and not allowing women to vote, now assert that you do not believe CRT is being taught in schools across the country—because???

        But how too, too Progressive of you to just dump a lot of information on your students and then let them decide “what actually happened” in history. If this is typical of “teaching” these days, no wonder so few people know anything about history.

      • Amazona November 17, 2022 / 10:13 pm

        BTW, Wikipedia is a notoriously unreliable source of objective information, particularly when it comes to controversial political issues. You do know that it is written by submissions from readers, who can also submit “corrections” if they don’t agree with what is written, don’t you?

        I am certainly not surprised that this is the nature and quality of your own sources of “information”. It explains a lot.

      • Amazona November 17, 2022 / 10:19 pm

        Of course, we also see that you think parents who don’t want sexually explicit material readily available to them in school libraries are “fascists”.

        It doesn’t matter that you don’t know what “fascist” means—just that you think it is a pejorative, an indictment of character, and this is how you see parents and other adults who don’t want young children sexualized.

      • casper3031 November 17, 2022 / 10:55 pm

        “BTW, Wikipedia is a notoriously unreliable source of objective information, particularly when it comes to controversial political issues.”

        Says the woman who uses FOX news a source that actually makes it’s users dumber.

        “Of course, we also see that you think parents who don’t want sexually explicit material readily available to them in school libraries are “fascists”.”

        Actually, I think that parents that want to ban books they have never read because they are told to by fascist leaders are sheep.

        Most of the books being banned have LGBTQ characters or books dealing with race and racism. I don’t claim to have read all the books being banned from school and public libraries, but I’m pretty sure most don’t contain what a rational person would call porn.

      • Amazona November 17, 2022 / 11:58 pm

        Says the woman who uses FOX news a source that actually makes it’s (sic) users dumber.

        My goodness but you have gotten catty. I’d watch that—cattiness and peevishness are tied for first place as unmanly characteristics. But that’s a pretty funny comment to make as you make the basic grammatical error of putting an apostrophe in the possessive of “it”. If not Fox, what was it that made YOU “dumber”?

        Your link is downright silly. To call it fluff would be to elevate it. And it’s 10 years old, evidently a harbinger of days to come when anything that did not agree with the Leftist narrative was just branded as “misinformation” or “disinformation”—always, of course, without citations of the alleged errors. Leave it to you to archive early forays into Thought Crimes.

        What’s funny is that in two posts you have cited this nonsense and wikipedia as your sources, while inventing an alleged dependence on Fox for me. You become more and more of a stereotype of a Liberal every day., starting with a snotty claim and the reverse engineering for an explanation for it.

        Your scorn for parents is an interesting take. You are basically calling them sheep, blindly following “fascist leaders”. That kind of attitude probably contributed to the opinion so many parents had of you back in the days when you were polluting young minds with your nonsense. And, of course, you go off the rails again.

        (1) Not allowing books in schools is not the same thing as banning them. They are not banned in the true sense of the word, as they are still available. They are just not readily available to young children. You seem to be offended by this.

        (2) Having alphabet characters is one thing—illustrations of boys engaging in oral sex is quite another. You have either done zero homework on this (gee, what a surprise!) or you think that’s just fine. No doubt you consider yourself a rational person, but it is possible, just remotely possible, that even you might not want young children reading the graphic descriptions in “The Bluest Eye” of a man becoming aroused as he describes, in great detail, the genitals of the young daughter he routinely rapes. Though given your knee-jerk reaction that wanting to keep this kind of thing out of school libraries is the kind of reaction that only fascists would feel, I might be wrong. After all, when objections were raised about this being mandatory high school reading one of the defenses was that it was essential to let people understand the black experience. (Another was that it was valuable because it helped students understand the minds of pedophiles—certainly a worthy goal, to some people.)

        (Just curious, though—what does the desire to protect the innocence of childhood by restricting reading material have to do with supporting a collectivist governing philosophy based on a Central Authority with little or no power left to the citizens, in which all allegiance is owed to the State? Or—just spitballing here, you understand—are you as ignorant of the actual definition of fascism as you are of everything else you spout off about? )

        And (3) “dealing with race and racism” sounds so bland and harmless. Yet in reality many of these books are, in and of themselves, overtly racist while posturing as being “anti-racist”. Ibram X. Kendi, is an excellent example. Books that address the fact that racism does exist are not necessarily bad, as long as they are balanced and address the fact that every race in every country in every era of mankind has had some kind of negative feeling against other races. The objectionable books teach that white people are inherently bad, and that hating them is not racist. This kind of toxic indoctrination into virulent racism should not be in our schools.

        Though you seem to disagree.

        As I said, when I pointed out your casual and inaccurate use of the word “fascist”, It doesn’t matter that you don’t know what “fascist” means—just that you think it is a pejorative, an indictment of character, and this is how you see parents and other adults who don’t want young children sexualized.

      • casper3031 November 18, 2022 / 2:42 am

        “Casper – today the Democrats and the MSM were running with a story that Youngkin was banning the mention of MLK in schools. It was a complete fabrication from start to finish. But that is the sort of information which is conveyed to you – and you just believe it.”

        What was reported, at least from my sources, was that information about MLK was no longer included in the K-5 history standards. That is correct. However, the Virginia Department of education has since revised the standards to include MLK. If you wish, ,I can provide links to the Virginia history standards, both before and after.

        “Nobody on the right is banning history – what we’re banning is falsehoods like the 1619 Project.”

        Have you read through the materials included in the 1619 Project? I’ve looked at a couple of sections and found they hold up when checked against other sources. That said, I’ve only looked at a small sample. What parts of the 1619 Project have you found to contain falsehoods? Have you read it, or are you just accepting other people”s opinions?

        “And we’re also tired of it all – this whole campaign to denigrate our civilization and achievements.”

        Learning about other cultures and their achievements, doesn’t have to lessen our own. While much our culture has come from the West, there are influences from all over the world. Over half the plants we consume were developed by Native Americans (potatoes, corn, squash, etc, come to mind). A lot of our popular music has African roots. “The Art of War” by Sun Tzu is still taught in military colleges throughout the world, even tough it was written 2,500 years ago. . Even the Constitution was inspired by the Iroquois Confederacy. Yes we have a great country and culture, but so do a lot of other countries. One of the things I enjoy most about living in Hawaii is living in a community inspired by cultures from around the world.

      • Amazona November 18, 2022 / 10:37 am

        casper, please explain the origin of your evident conviction that you are entitled to come here make comments that sound like they are lifted directly from The View or Joey and the Bimbo, and then issue demands for rebuttal along with your accepted guidelines for responding—such as citing the parts of the 1619 Project that are incorrect.

        No, It doesn’t work that way. We are not here to feed your compulsion to bicker, nor to defend a system. While you enjoy the cultural diversity of Hawaii (and don’t mind the racism—maybe you buy into the CRT rap against white people and don’t mind being sneered at as a haole) but evidently it offers no outlet for your desperate need to justify your political position. Tough. Find a discussion group that will have you and go for it.

        The Left, in its campaign to destabilize our society, has settled on race as its primary tool for creating unnecessary conflict and divisions. So it has rewritten history (a common strategy of the Left) to generate the impression that everything that ever happened, happened in pursuit of oppression of black people. The 1619 project was based on this approach to “racifying” the origins of this country, and in so doing smearing the nation as a whole from its earliest days.

        This is seen in the statement: “One critical reason that the colonists declared their independence from Britain was because they wanted to protect the institution of slavery in the colonies, which had produced tremendous wealth. At the time there were growing calls to abolish slavery throughout the British Empire, which would have badly damaged the economies of colonies in both North and South.” This is a truly bizarre distortion of fact. Slavery in the Colonies faced no immediate threat from Great Britain, so colonists wouldn’t have needed to secede to protect it. Furthermore, there was great opposition to slavery in the North and much of the South, yet all 13 colonies seceded from Great Britain. Secession cut off the biggest market for goods from the South, primarily cotton, so it made no sense to secede to “protect” the mechanism for providing those goods.

        Even a cursory examination of history, combined with a little common sense, shows this project to be nothing more than a creation intended to undermine conviction that this is a great nation.

        The 1619 Project ignores the realities of the day, and blandly makes several assertions that are simply not true. What we call lies. One is that slavery was an expression of systemic oppression of a class of people based exclusively on the color of their skin and their national origins—that is to say, black people. (After all, an honest analysis of slavery including the fact that its recent focus more on Africans was much more an economic issue, one of the economic advantages of having large markets of slaves ready to buy and ship, wouldn’t do anything to foment racial discord.) In other words enslavement of black people was not based on racial discrimination but on simple availability. But to this “journalistic” endeavor it was always about race, all the time in every way.

        One was the avoidance of the reality that slavery was not universally approved in the colonies.

        One was the avoidance of the very real and clearly defined reasons for separating from Great Britain, all of which have been well known, discussed and analyzed for two centuries.

        But the screed, dishonest as it is, does attempt to discredit the noble origins of our country, and this is why it has such appeal to people like you.

      • Amazona November 18, 2022 / 10:44 am

        The “Native Americans” who discovered and developed potatoes happened to be natives of Peru

        So spare us references to your “sources” and your condescending lectures on the cultural influences of other nations, as if we don’t know that already.

        Just own your Leftism, and stop trying to pound us over the head with it. We are far more knowledgeable about your chosen political model than you are, because we see through its flimsy trappings of “doing good for the people” to its underlying quest for power over those people. The Left only succeeds due to the starry-eyed, giddy support of people like you, people Stalin callously and honestly described as “useful idiots”, who remain steadfastly ignorant of the monster they are feeding because it shows them a cute furry face and lets them feel good about themselves.

      • Amazona November 18, 2022 / 11:06 am

        re: spin from Agenda Media

        There is a difference between not finding room in a curriculum to address Dr King and “banning mention of him”. But this is how the Agenda Media work. They take a nugget of fact, which can be quite benign and easily explained, and restate it to sound malignant.

        What I think is funny is that the New Black Movement now ignores Dr. King and finds his dream of a colorblind society to be—you guessed it—-RACIST. He is no longer a hero to the “black community” but put on a shelf, as the new philosophy is to make absolutely everything about race. Everything is now based on melanin content in the skin, or on ethnicity. Good and bad, it’s all dictated by skin color, going all the way back for generations.

        But let a school system have a curriculum that doesn’t include studying Dr. King and the Left and its lapdog Agenda Media see a chance to throw some gasoline on the fire of racism and suddenly find new respect for King.

        So let’s see how much outrage they manage if the schools not only restore study of Dr. King but of his messages of peaceful protest and not judging people by the color of their skin.

        That’s a problem when you are an irrational, reactive, oppositional movement—you can get tangled up in your own confusing rhetoric.

      • Mark Noonan November 18, 2022 / 10:22 pm

        We’ve been over this before, Casper. When you add an ounce of lie to fifteen ounces of truth, you wind up with a pound of lie.

        The basic premise of 1619 is false – the Europeans who came to start a new life didn’t come here to start or perpetuate White Supremacy. It wasn’t a concept they would even understand. They came here to start a new life.

        But, Casper, they came to a howling wilderness. The Natives did have some useful information to impart about growing food in North American soil and climate – and this was very crucial to the initial survival of the colonies – but everything still had to be built from scratch. They didn’t arrive at Ellis Island and then move on to a tenement in Manhattan. If any of them wanted a roof over their heads, they had to build it. Clothes you brought from home wearing out? You’ll have to make new clothes. Axe blade dull? Better figure out how to sharpen it or make a new one. Starting to get it? They had to build everything.

        And they also had to pay the people who lent them the money to set out. It was a loan! Now, you might not be fully aware of that but you might be old enough to have heard it back there…but you can bet that the kiddies today don’t hear about it. The Pilgrims weren’t rich and a voyage to the New World was expensive! So was purchasing the food and equipment you’d need to survive until you could successfully produce your own food and goods. They borrowed money and they had to pay it back. All of the initial settlements in what became the US started that way – someone fronted the cash, and then the emigrants had to pay it back.

        That, of course, was going to take a lot of work. Backbreaking work – because it was still a pre-industrial society. The first practical engine was nearly a century away! Land had to be cleared. Homes and shops built. Once again: they had to make everything. And pay back the loans! They had no machines to save labor…and, so, they got labor from where it was available.

        Now, the 1619/CRT drivel is that the acquisition of slaves from Africa was based upon the inherent racism of white people. The reality is much more simple than that: Africa has the closest non-Christian population which lacked sufficient protections from slavers. Christian law prohibited the enslavement of Christians. Muslim powers were more than sufficiently strong to protect their people from slave raiders. But there in West Africa was a large population of pagans who either lacked a strong government capable of defending them, or had governments which actively participated in the slave trade. All that was wanted was labor – someone to do the backbreaking work of building society from scratch in a wilderness so that people could live and the debts paid. It just so happened the people of Africa have black skins – but had they been pagans as white as Swedes, they would have been just a readily enslaved.

        The racism came later and it was two step:

        1. White women wanted to reserve especially the most successful white men for themselves and so they made it socially unacceptable for a white man to marry a black woman. Eventually this was codified into law. It was like that just about everywhere Europeans went: first arrivals were mostly male and had zero qualm about relations with the native women…later, the women would show up and put a stop to that, at least among the middle and upper classes. Spanish America was a little different as Spanish ladies rarely went to the New World.

        2. After the USA was founded and after the rise of various anti-slavery movements then people started cooking up the twaddle that black people are mentally and morally inferior to whites and are thus born slaves. I’m talking the 1800’s before this started to take hold. A couple centuries after the first black people arrived in what would become the United States.

        1619 takes race relations at 1865 and projects them backwards as an explanation – the truth is just the opposite of what is asserted. And so everything in the 1619 project is perfectly useless because it is based upon a falsehood. There is no reason to read further into, just as there would be no reason to continue with a calculation that begins 2 plus 2 equals 3.

      • Mark Noonan November 18, 2022 / 10:41 pm

        Additionally: you want to know why Sun Tzu is taught in military academies? Because everyone needs to check off the diversity boxes. Nothing in Sun Tzu is as worthwhile as Jomini or Clausewitz. And if they aren’t available, you’d better use “Praecepta Militaria” before you refer to Sun Tzu.

        Do you know what happened to armies that used Sun Tzu as a guide? They were dispersed by mere landing parties. The People’s Liberation Army doesn’t use ancient Chinese military formations – if they come at you, it will be with a combined arms force of armored/mechanized ground force supporting by tactical air. Hate to break it do you, but one of the things the West is the very best at is military operations…and it is why Western military precepts are universally applied around the world today (though China, like all non-western nations, still lacks civic-military virtue: they simply won’t, man for man, be as good as ours – assuming roughly equal equipment and training – this isn’t because the Chinese aren’t brave or intelligent, but the mental attitude which makes a soldier do his duty even in hopeless situations is a cultural thing…and a cultural thing of the West and it can’t be transferred across cultural divides. You might think Japan has it but a Japanese soldier shooting himself on Okinawa was trying to avoid the shame of surrender…the American soldier fighting until killed at the Alamo was simply being defiant to the last).

        And before you get all huffy about it, you might want to think why Hinduism causes barely a ripple in the West while both Christianity and Marxism are continuing to spread rapidly in the non-West…because they are better ideas than the non-Western. Even Marxism, which is stupid, at least has a more coherent worldview than any non-Western philosophy. It is just the way it is, Casper.

      • casper3031 November 18, 2022 / 6:30 pm

        “The “Native Americans” who discovered and developed potatoes happened to be natives of Peru”

        Peru is in South America.

        “While you enjoy the cultural diversity of Hawaii (and don’t mind the racism—maybe you buy into the CRT rap against white people and don’t mind being sneered at as a haole) .”

        Haole means foreigner and has come to mean those with European ancestry. Although I know it exists, I have never experienced being sneered at anyone nor have I experienced any kind of racism. Probably because I respect the people, and and culture here. Usually, if haole is used as a pejorative it is aimed at people who don’t show respect for the locals. In that case it means a person is a entitled jerk.

        I agree that slavery in the Colonies faced no immediate threat from Great Britain, so colonists wouldn’t have needed to secede to protect it. That said, slaves were considered wealth and many of our founding fathers owed their wealth to slave labor. The founding of our country was a major achievement, but slavery was a blight that affects it up to today.

      • Amazona November 20, 2022 / 11:31 am

        Peru is in South America.

        Pretty proud of that comeback, are you, cappy? Now explain to us how, when we refer to Native Americans we are really talking about Peruvians.

      • Amazona November 20, 2022 / 11:56 am

        So you admit that anti-white bigotry does exist in Hawaii, but you’re OK with that because it hasn’t touched you. Yet. I also got a kick out of the smug assertion that this is because you are such a good person.

        It’s also interesting that you think bigotry is OK if in the mind of the bigot the target of the bigotry deserves it.

        History is rife with examples of unjust actions which affected various classes of people. Women have been discriminated against for centuries, yet only unbalanced mental cases still nurture resentment because their female ancestors couldn’t own land or vote. Irish, Chinese and Mexican people experienced blatant and often virulent discrimination, yet somehow their descendants have for the most part found it possible to move past that, having no need to cling to the past to try to justify current hatred. Rent the movie “Giant” for a refresher course in what it meant to be a Mexican in Texas less than 100 years ago. That was a blight on our society, but it was not clung to, nurtured, expanded upon and developed into a whole movement, as slavery has been.

        Slavery was bad. It was bad when Native Americans had slaves. It was bad in Egypt, in Rome, in Asia, in the Middle East. But the only place it has achieved the status of an undying, constantly refreshed, source of suppurating hatred and hostility and resentment is here, in the United States. And the reason for that is that it is too important a tool for the Left to use to pry people apart from each other, to continue its work of dividing the nation and destabilizing our society.

        And Useful Idiots like you are major contributors

      • Amazona November 20, 2022 / 12:16 pm

        We also need to examine the racial component of slavery. I don’t just mean that most of the slaves in North America were black, or that nurturing the history of slavery is a way to spur ongoing resentment of white people by black people, or that it lets smug white people posture as morally superior because they disapprove of slavery (as if everyone doesn’t). I mean that in this country, in this political climate, the only slavery that means anything to the Left and its acolytes is the old, abandoned, already-condemned slavery in a few states, by a few people, more than 100 years ago.—and that this is a wholly black/white construct.

        Yet the black people in the United States who still carry on interminably about how distant ancestors (and people who were not ancestors) were once enslaved turn a blind eye to the ongoing enslavement of other black people, going on today, in Africa. That’s because the slave owners are also black, so this doesn’t fit the narrative of white oppression of black slaves and is therefore of no political use and is therefore not worth thinking about.

        And the enslavement of Uighurs by China is also not easily dealt with by the Left. China is a Leftist regime, the products we get from China are so desirable they override moral considerations, and the biggest reason to ignore this atrocity is that the slaves aren’t black.

      • casper3031 November 20, 2022 / 1:36 pm

        November 20, 2022 / 11:31 am
        Peru is in South America.

        Pretty proud of that comeback, are you, cappy? Now explain to us how, when we refer to Native Americans we are really talking about Peruvians.”

        When I refer to native Americans, I am referring to any of the indigenous people inhabiting the Americas (North and South). Just as when referring to people from Europe as Europeans. perhaps I need to be more specific next time
        That said, potatoes were developed by the indigenous peoples of the Andes over several hundred years. None of them were Peruvians, as Peru as a country has only been in existence for less than two hundred years.

        “So you admit that anti-white bigotry does exist in Hawaii, but you’re OK with that because it hasn’t touched you. Yet. I also got a kick out of the smug assertion that this is because you are such a good person.

        It’s also interesting that you think bigotry is OK if in the mind of the bigot the target of the bigotry deserves it.”

        Bigotry exists everywhere, even Hawaii. And it goes both directions. I’ve met more racist white people in Hawaii than racist Hawaiians. And yes being a good person works here. If you treat people with respect, listen to them, and respect their culture you won’t have problems with people. I will however suggest to my Hawaiian friends that if some one is acting like an asshole it’s more PC to refer to them as assholes rather than haole.

      • Amazona November 21, 2022 / 9:56 am

        Don’t bother about trying to be “more specific” when you are being pedantic. Which would be always. Your smug little lectures from you assumed position on the Higher Moral Ground are fatuous and tiresome.

  3. Cluster November 17, 2022 / 9:43 am

    With the changes in election laws over the last couple of years, specifically in the swing States of AZ, GA, PA, and WI, the Democrats have rigged the system so I fully expect a Democrat to win the 2024 election. They just keep creating and counting ballots until the Dem wins. That’s now obvious I think and no one in the media will call them out on this. Don’t you find it odd that in AZ in 2020, Biden was declared the winner 20 minutes after the polls closed, yet it took 8 days of counting and harvesting, to declare Katie Hobbs the Governor in 2022? Or how about the LA mayoral race? Carusco was ahead by a significant margin on election day but lo and behold, 8 days later, the Democrat has won. Now I was born at night, but it wasn’t last night, and none if this even passes the smell test, so I will not be voting until the thieves and the systems are replaced.

    Re: Trump, I too will keep options open but I think your spin on it is good. DeSantis should sit this one out and wait until 2028. If Trump can dial down the school yard attacks and stay on message, it will serve him well. I would encourage Trump to go campaign in downtown Seattle, downtown Portland, Chicago, Baltimore, etc., and draw a straight line from Democrat policies to the dystopia that these areas are. I would then campaign from the border and show video of the invasion and the drugs and rapes going on everyday and draw a straight line right back to the Democrat party and their policies. I would then detail the amount of foreign aid handed out by Democrats and how much of that money finds it’s way back into Democrat campaign coffers. The crimes Democrats are committing are plain as day, but it will take someone with courage to call them out, and I think Trump is the guy, because the push back will be hell but he can handle it.

    The GOP needs to be on offense on every issue every single day …with moral clarity.

  4. Cluster November 17, 2022 / 9:47 am

    This Clay Higgins guy is awesome

    • Retired Spook November 17, 2022 / 10:01 am


  5. Cluster November 17, 2022 / 10:41 am

    The impeachment of Joe Biden begins today. Great news conference by the House GOP.

    • Retired Spook November 17, 2022 / 10:47 am

      What goes around comes around.

      • Amazona November 17, 2022 / 11:18 am

        I just think this might be playing into the hands of the Left. While on one hand it would give us a platform for outlining the fatal flaws in the Biden Administration, it would also set up his removal by us and get them off the hook for dumping him.

        But if we were to dig deep into the Covid corruption, it might be worth it I really think the country needs to know how badly it was lied to and how many lives were sacrificed on the altar of Leftist power grabs.

        The thing is, a full investigation into Biden misdeeds and screwups would take up the rest of his term. And we would need a clear goal in mind. Just going after Biden is not enough. We would need a clear and specific goal of how this would add to the Right’s positions in the future. We can accumulate vast piles of lies, corruption, incompetence and so on, but without a concise plan in advance for tying it all together into a coherent narrative of the defects of Leftist governance in general we’d just be indulging in some payback.

        And this is where we always fail. We never tie anything into the general structure of Leftist governance. Yes, we complain about inflation—but then drop the ball when it comes to explaining why the Left loves and needs inflation which is because it scares people and makes them turn to the government for comfort and help.

        We are pretty good at getting the ball to the five yard line, but then don’t seem to understand what those tall posts are all about in the end zone.

      • Retired Spook November 17, 2022 / 11:34 am

        With the Senate and executive branch (ie., Justice Dept.,) still controlled by Democrats, House investigations are going nowhere. I’d be fully on board with low-key investigations and fact/data gathering with an eye on 2024. Presented in the right way, even leaked if necessary, proof of Democrats’ malfeasance at every level would be great ammunition for taking back all three branches. Then, Katie bar the door!

      • Amazona November 17, 2022 / 12:44 pm

        We can learn from the Dems: specifically, about the power of repeated accusations.

        A House committee on Fauci, for example, could provide ammunition for attacking the White House/Dems for their callous sacrifice of human lives in the pursuit of power. Cast it as cruel and manipulative, cast it as mere incompetence, the facts would still show that Dems should never have power. Period. He’ll be gone by then so we wouldn’t need to worry about approval of anything—let a new DOJ handle that when the time comes.

        An impeachment hearing for Biden specifically on the topic of his handling of the Covid Panic would tie in nicely with this.

        But only if we know there is a goal line, and that we are supposed to cross it. In this case, wrapping it up with a summary of the tyranny of the Left using Covid Panic as its stalking horse.

      • Cluster November 17, 2022 / 12:03 pm

        This is bigger than just the Left. We need to include the entire ruling class which involves Mitch McConnell, Mitt Romney, Lisa Murkowski, Richard Barr, etc., etc. This is not R vs D. This is the American people vs the establishment political class/big tech/media/academia. And I don’t care who it helps or hurts, I want it all exposed.

      • Amazona November 17, 2022 / 12:46 pm

        If we can shake off the problem of identifying people by their labels instead of their ideology, we can stop thinking that the list of people you gave is not one of Leftists. If we can define Left not as “D” but as working toward an increasingly powerful Central Authority with power consolidated in the hands of a few, we can see how these people are part of that ideology.

  6. Amazona November 17, 2022 / 12:53 pm

    Cluster, this popped up in the Comments section of the Epoch Times. What do you know/think about this? It states this is taking place in Phoenix.

    Votes have been missing and now there are vote-counters literally going door-to-door asking for ballots that many did not bother to mail!

    • Cluster November 17, 2022 / 1:37 pm

      I have no reason to doubt it. It was also discovered yesterday that two of the AZ election officials started an anti MAGA pac a couple years ago, so there is that too. The election process is in AZ is wholly corrupted, more so than any other State and it needs to be addressed.

      • Retired Spook November 17, 2022 / 3:44 pm

        If the shoe were on the other foot, the Antifa/BLM wing of the Democrat Party would be burning Phoenix to the ground.

      • Cluster November 17, 2022 / 3:45 pm

        That’s a fact lol

      • Amazona November 17, 2022 / 4:27 pm

        Your legislature allowed a woman who was running the election to run for office in the election.

        Which takes us back to the issue of focusing on statehouses.

      • Cluster November 17, 2022 / 4:31 pm

        That’s also a fact. I think the average 3rd grader can see that there’s something not right in Maricopa County.

  7. Cluster November 17, 2022 / 3:51 pm

    The Science deniers are at it again

    Xenogender, gender outlaw and genderf****: San Francisco’s $1,200-a-month handout to low-income trans people tells them to choose from 134 genders and pronouns (and they can pick as many as they want)

    134 genders? I thought the last count was 127, who knew??

    • Amazona November 17, 2022 / 7:34 pm

      It’s so funny to see deniers using the word as a pejorative. In just the last few years we have seen them wallowing in all sorts of denials, from the true nature of the Russia Hoax to the source of Covid to the crisis at the border to the dangers of the clot shot to the humanity of unborn children to the science of chromosomes to that of who, exactly, can gestate and give birth to the impending cooling of the earth to the essential need for fossil fuels to the environmental dangers of solar energy collection to the environmental dangers of electric vehicles to the criminality of the Bidens to the actual definitions of very important words—the deniers just deny anything that doesn’t fit their rigid little narratives. I’m sure I’ve left out several.

      Some of these denials have had lethal consequences. For example, it was known early on that a major danger of Covid was that it can trigger a cytokine storm in pulmonary tissues through hyperactivation of the immune system and the uncontrolled release of cytokines. This caused what was described as people drowning in their own pulmonary fluids, as the lungs were overtaken by this immune system overreaction We had known for years how to deal with immune system overreactions, starting with steroids to reduce the inflammation and going on to drugs like hydroxychloroquine, safely used for decades to deal with overreactive immune systems.

      This was denied, these treatments were denied, the safety of these treatments was denied, the ability of doctors to prescribe these treatments was denied, and while the science deniers screamed from the rooftops hysterical statements such as HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE WILL KILL YOU! people were dying, unnecessarily. Every treatment modality that did not depend on the federally funded Big Pharma experimental drugs was denied, with hordes of eager civilian deniers flooding blogs and comments sections with strident denials. And people died.

      At least people who share the opinion that the 2020 election was not honest don’t have blood on their hands. And we/they don’t run around bellowing “DENIERS” every time we see someone with a different opinion.

  8. Cluster November 18, 2022 / 8:13 am

    Josh Hawley deserves a medal. This is how we win …..

  9. Cluster November 18, 2022 / 8:20 am

    It’s interesting watching Casper deny CRT. And says he first heard about it here. Wow. I have to assume he just doesn’t pay attention to much, but will reflexively defend the Left from any “right wing attacks”, hence the defense of CRT. Notice how he never mentions the 1619 Project, I wonder if he’s ever heard of that?

    Also curious if Casper has ever heard of FTX. Do you suppose he has any sympathy for the numerous teachers, first responders, etc. who lost their retirement savings so Democrat politicians could have healthy campaign coffers?

    • Amazona November 18, 2022 / 10:59 am

      re: FTX. I’ll start by admitting the whole concept of crypto currency simply baffles me. So I won’t try to talk about it.

      What I CAN talk about is the complete inability of our government to deal with issues this complex.

      I listened to an audio book called Nobody Would Listen, by Harry Markopolos, about the way Bernie Madoff scammed the nation right under the noses of the oblivious SEC “watchdogs”. Even someone as deficient in economics as I am could follow it and it was a chilling indictment of the competence of our government. (And BTW it’s really really fascinating.)

      Underneath all the machinations of Madoff and his various nefarious actions lies the fact that the SEC is simply not up to the job of dealing with people who are brilliant and skillful at manipulating the system. It is staffed with recent econ grads for whom an SEC job is the first rung on the ladder., who don’t have the depth or scope of knowledge to be able to deal with the complexities of scams put together by people a lot smarter than they are. Markopolos would sit down with SEC officials and go through the math to prove that Madoff’s claims were simply not possible. Forget “credible”—-they weren’t POSSIBLE. And these inexperienced newbies just couldn’t follow along.

      So I wondered if history was repeating itself in the FTX debacle, as the watchdogs just weren’t up to the job.


    • Cluster November 18, 2022 / 11:17 am

      The SEC is a political body, not an oversight body, and SBF and FTX played them by donating to their favorite causes, primarily the Democrat Party. Lots of pensioners lost retirement funds all because FTX was a HUGE democrat donor and nobody wanted to stop that gravy train.

      • Amazona November 18, 2022 / 11:24 am

        The SEC is a political body, not an oversight body,

        Now that is the case. And this has to be changed. If they’re not going to provide oversight and prosecution for wrongdoing they can, as Pudding Brain suggested, go learn to code.

  10. Cluster November 18, 2022 / 10:20 am

    It is beyond irony to watch MSNBC Democrats say that the “investigations of Joe Biden” are a “side show” after watching them chase their tails for 6 years investigating everything about Trump. Their self awareness is absolutely zero. Their integrity is zero. Their credibility is zero. And their worth to this country is less than zero. This country would be so much better off without them.

    • Amazona November 18, 2022 / 10:46 am

      If the Biden corruption issues are just a “side show” why was it so imperative to bring in the big guns of federal agencies to pressure media to cover them up?

  11. Cluster November 18, 2022 / 10:38 am

    Here’s a story the American media is staying far away from … I think we are on the cusp of a global war

    Since the massive fraud during the runoff election on October 30th in Brazil, millions of Brazilians have been protesting on the streets every day against electoral fraud by Communist convicted criminal Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva….Mainstream media such as O Globo refuse to report on what may be the largest protests the world has ever seen, fueling even more rage and disappointment among the Brazilian people.

  12. Cluster November 18, 2022 / 10:53 am

    So in other words, it was all a political raid by the corrupted FBI at the encouragement of authoritarian Democrats to influence an election

    “A review by agents and prosecutors found no discernible business interest in the Mar-a-Lago documents, people familiar with the matter said,” The Post explains. “Federal agents and prosecutors have come to believe former president Donald Trump’s motive for allegedly taking and keeping classified documents was largely his ego and a desire to hold on to the materials as trophies or mementos, according to people familiar with the matter.”

    “FBI interviews with witnesses so far,” The Post adds, citing their sources, “also do not point to any nefarious effort by Trump to leverage, sell, or use the government secrets. Instead, the former president seemed motivated by a more basic desire not to give up what he believed was his property, these people said.”

    • fieldingclaymore November 18, 2022 / 11:01 am

      I don’t know why you defend Trump on the document case. The motive to have the docs is immaterial. This would be the GOP’s chance to get rid of that anchor on the party. “Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?”

      • Cluster November 18, 2022 / 11:19 am

        Defending Trump?? Uh no. Just pointing out that the FBI has FINALY admitted that there was nothing to the raid. It was all for show. And I knew that from the very beginning. There is no need to defend Trump because he did nothing wrong.

      • Amazona November 18, 2022 / 11:22 am

        The motive to have the docs is immaterial.

        Really? Well, let’s take a look at the last time the government addressed a similar situation. Not really very similar, as in this case there were thousands of documents about ongoing highly sensitive government discussions and decisions, which had been made available to even moderately skillful hackers, in a blatant violation of law—but still, an opinion on motive.

        All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice.

        Sound familiar? This was an explanation from the head of the FBI for its decision to not recommend further legal action. (The “efforts to obstruct justice” part was odd, as there has been refusal to honor subpoenas, willful destruction of documents after preservation orders had been issued and willful destruction of electronic devices to prevent any possible reconstruction of what information they had carried. )

        So, F Lee Claymore, why don’t you give us YOUR legal opinion on Trump’s “clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information” (it was under lock and key in a facility guarded by the Secret Service) or maybe on his “indications of disloyalty to the United States;”.

        You guys are so pathetic, And what you don’t seem to get, so caught up in your obsessive pathology, is that you are telegraphing your understanding of the existential threat a President Trump would pose to your political system.

        There is one—-ONE—negative about a new Trump campaign. And that is not Trump, but how big a hissy fit the Left will throw and how much of a chair-throwing spectacle you are willing to put on to try to keep this man from finishing what he started.

      • Cluster November 18, 2022 / 11:40 am

        There is one—-ONE—negative about a new Trump campaign. And that is not Trump

        100% correct. It’s not what Trump does. It’s the over the top reaction he receives by emotionally challenged Democrats

      • Amazona November 18, 2022 / 12:03 pm

        The howling mobs are emotionally challenged Democrats, but the leadership is clear-eyed and analytical and very much aware of the damage a newly energized Trump presidency would present.

        They have spent decades establishing their Bureaucratic State (AKA the Deep State) consisting of political appointees, never elected and usually working in relative secrecy, who have steadily expanded the size and scope of their agencies until they have taken over much, if not most, of the legislative duties of Congress. They issue “regulations”, without the participation or oversight of Congress, and these regulations are treated as laws. They have effectively run the nation from the back rooms of their agencies.

        Trump saw this, recognized its dangers, and started to dismantle this edifice of extra-Constitutional governance. (tip to casper: “extra-Constitutional” means outside of the Constitution.) He had to move slowly, keeping in mind an upcoming election cycle, but he still slashed budgets which meant reduced staffing, and he started the process of separating agencies from the corrupt core of national government. He moved one agency to Colorado, another to Missouri. He started playing Jenga with the agencies, knowing that at some point when a key agency was removed the whole edifice would fall.

        The writing was on the wall, and the unemotional controllers of the Left saw that they needed to act fast and get rid of Trump by any means possible. And they rummaged around in their bag of dirty tricks and got ‘er done. But then he didn’t go away, so the need to keep demonizing him and keeping their hyper-emotional base whipped up in anti-Trump frenzy became a full-time job. And here is when the emotionally damaged, emotionally challenged, Democrat herds stampede in, all bulging eyes and spittle flying as they try, they try so hard, to keep their Trump hatred compelling.

        But they’re kind of running out of gas. Election fraud has been proved and as courts get farther away from the 2020 election and their fretting about being called names for issuing correct rulings has faded the legal rulings are starting to come in. So the “election denier” meme is falling apart, in spite of the valiant efforts of the J6 Committee to keep it alive by criminalizing his right to have and express his opinions about the election. They’ve tried the Storm Trooper approach of public arrests and humiliation of Trump supporters, but dragging a heavily chained and shackled 70-year-old man through an airport didn’t have the effect it was supposed to, as everyone knew the claim was one of a minor nonviolent process crime usually handled in attorney meetings.

        The dawn raid on Mar-A-Lago lost some of its steam when it was quickly accompanied by imagery of federal panty-sniffing pervs pawing through Melania’s closets, and finally collapsed on itself as the obvious defects of the effort piled up.

        So all that’s left is the base of emotion-driven hate-inspired howlers like fielding and casper. Though casper is more of a whiner than a howler.

      • Cluster November 18, 2022 / 11:27 am

        I think you should defend the FBI for raiding a political opponent for no reason. Go.

      • fieldingclaymore November 18, 2022 / 12:14 pm

        The facts of the case are that he was notified several times by the DOJ/NARA that he had documents in his possession that he was not legally allowed to have and that he should return them. After some back and forth he retuned some documents and then had his lawyer sign an affidavit testifying to the fact that all the docs in his possession were returned. DOJ knew this was bullshit and executed a lawful search and low and behold more documents were found. Is this clearly intentional and willful mishandling of of classified docs? I don’t know. He hasn’t been charged yet. But the facts of the case between Clinton and Trump are similar but not the same.

      • Amazona November 18, 2022 / 12:45 pm

        The facts of the case are that he received an opinion with which he disagreed. He invited the agency to visit his property and review what he had. They did, took some documents, and were so deeply and profoundly concerned about the ongoing safety of the rest that they left them behind, in a room with other property stored there, asking only that an additional lock be placed on the door. Trump assured them they could return if they wanted, to take other docs if they thought this necessary. He and his lawyers were in constant communication with the archivist.

        BTW, there was no sworn affidavit that “all the docs in his possession were returned”. He obviously kept some, and the feds obviously knew this—-or they wouldn’t have asked for an additional lock on the door.

        Only later, as the J6 Committee wheels started falling off, did the administration need a new distraction, so they called in their reliable Storm Troopers and set up a dawn raid. There have always been conflicts between presidents and archivists about who gets to keep what. It’s just that in this case the need for a distraction from the really serious problems of inflation, border crisis, fuel shortages looming, international instability due in large part to Biden bungling and the rest of the rat’s nest of administration problems demanded that a lens be focused back on Trump in a very big and dramatic way. In addition info was coming out about the Biden Crime Family and the fear that a President Trump would pursue those investigations was a concern.

        You say “the facts of the case between Clinton and Trump are similar but not the same.” In the Clinton case she blatantly violated serious and meaningful federal laws for years, using an illegal private server to avoid the dangers (to her) of FOIA demands for records of what she did and when and with whom. So this is the ongoing premeditated violation of federal laws. Trump made no secret of his taking of certain documents.

        Then there was the associated law-breaking of making highly sensitive, including Secret and Top Secret, documents easily available to even moderately skillful hackers. These were not archived documents, but concerned active and ongoing discussions and decisions at the highest level of government. This is another level of what can, at its most forgiving, be considered mere incompetence. But it posed an active and ongoing threat to national security, which had to be known to a two-time First Lady, Senator and Secretary of State. Documents in a double-locked room in a secure location under guard by the Secret Service, of archived documents no longer relevant to ongoing government discussions and decisions, were never accessible to our opponents.

        This was followed by discovery of this rat’s nest of various illegalities, leading to subpoenas (ignored), protection orders for documents and records (ignored as they were destroyed), protection orders regarding the electronic devises uses (ignored as hard drives were wiped and physical devises were physically destroyed with hammers). Trump didn’t violate any protection orders or destroy anything.

        So no, the two were never even remotely “the same” or even similar.

      • Amazona November 18, 2022 / 12:49 pm

        Is this clearly intentional and willful mishandling of of classified docs? I

        I don’t know. How were they mishandled? Were they left out where some Russian or Chinese agent could see them? Did he let the dog pee on them? Did he get grape jelly on them over breakfast?

        Just HOW were they “mishandled”? Kept under lock and key in a secure location under guard seems like a pretty poor definition of “mishandled” to me.

      • Retired Spook November 18, 2022 / 12:33 pm

        But the facts of the case between Clinton and Trump are similar but not the same.

        I agree. Clinton willfully and purposefully violated the Espionage Act. That said, I don’t have a problem with Trump getting the same punishment as Hillary.

        BTW, you need to refresh your understanding of what a non sequitur is.

      • Amazona November 18, 2022 / 12:46 pm

        BTW, you need to refresh your understanding of what a non sequitur is.

        Oh, was he claiming there was one? I thought he was asking for one. It’s so hard to make sense of his mental meanderings.

    • Amazona November 18, 2022 / 11:07 am

      Oh, well—there is still the effort to criminalize freedom of thought, speech and assembly.

      • Amazona November 18, 2022 / 11:22 am

        oogely boogely

  13. Cluster November 18, 2022 / 1:37 pm

    After encouraging abortion, gender transitioning, decrying toxic masculinity, and bemoaning “forced pregnancies”, Chuck Schumer and the Democrats are now citing lack of American babies being born as the reason to grant amnesty to million of illegal immigrants. YCMTSU These people are dumb AF

    • Amazona November 18, 2022 / 2:28 pm

      Gee, do you think that was part of the plan? Things to seem to fit together when viewed as components of an overall strategy.

      Take uncontrolled borders, for example. First there is the flooding of the system, to enact the Cloward-Piven strategy of overloading the system till it collapses. When linked to what has to be purposefully engineered runaway inflation, we see a system that can’t support itself on one hand and a society that can’t feed or house itself on the other. Leading, of course, to increased loss of emotional and financial security, leading to turning to the government for safety and survival.

      Then declare that the only thing to do is grant amnesty (ie: citizenship) to the illegals attracted here by the birdfeeder policies of the Biden administration, and all of a sudden the entire nation is run by people who will vote for constant expansion of the size, scope and above all POWER of the federal government.

      There is always a pattern, a path, to what seems on the surface to be mere unconnected events.

      We see this in the bogus 1691 Project, which has a goal of dividing the nation racially but also of denigrating the founding of the nation and by extension its Founders. This would, ideally to the Left, mean that we would ignore the words of wisdom of those Founders, such as Benjamin Franklin, who warned us: When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic. Sell not liberty to purchase power.

      When the end goal is the destruction of the republic to allow for the establishment of a tyrannical State, an essential step is finding ways to let more people vote themselves money.

  14. Cluster November 18, 2022 / 1:42 pm

    Remember when Trump said that criminals were coming across the border and every Democrat feigned outrage and called him a racist?? Well

    An Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) operation caught more than 130 convicted sex offenders who were back in the United States illegally earlier this fall, showing again how the Biden administration’s border crisis is endangering American families and failing to keep threat-posing individuals out of the country.

  15. Cluster November 18, 2022 / 2:51 pm

    These stupid parents /sarc … don’t they know CRT is only taught at the graduate level???

    A group of parents who ousted their school board members in South Carolina wasted no time putting their new powers to use by immediately firing their district superintendent and eliminating any vestige of Critical Race Theory (CRT) in their schools, among other moves.

    • Retired Spook November 18, 2022 / 3:01 pm

      Apparently a lot of school districts thought that If they could eliminate any mention of CRT in the actual curriculum, they could simply weave it into other subjects. Remote learning during the pandemic exposed this to a lot of parents who looked over their kids’ shoulders and discovered the subterfuge.

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